Next Year

[Sparty13 0]

Ok I want to look ahead to next year real quick. We have Lidstrom, Kronwall, Lilja, Rafalski, Lebda and most likely Chelios returning. As we know, Kindl, Ericsson, Quincy and a couple others on their way up, with Kindl being the top candidate. Out of the 6 guys we have now, who is the most expendable? Could you see Lebda getting traded, because he's signed through 09/10. He doesn't have a big frame and isn't very physical. Also, aren't the Wings trying to lock up Lilja too? I like Kindl a lot and want to see him up here ASAP to learn from Lidstrom before he retires. Let me know what yall think.

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Kindl

Chelios Lilja

????????????

[Guest wingswillwincup]

ya i just read that they wanted to resign lilja , i just hope hes just saying this cause hes saying he wants to resign cleary and filppula and doesnt wanna make him feel left out so he plays bad .... bringing lilja makes no sense

Kindl i think will be a top guy for us but i dont think theyll make him play one more year in the ahl

lidstrom rafalski

kronwall lebda

ericsson chelios

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/player...athan_Ericsson/

ericsson will be the guy , hes gonna be 24 next year hes a big body and can actually play ......... meech will be dealt , quincey assuming he can stay one more year in the ahl will stay there and be called up if needed be , hes gonna be the number 7 ...... after 2008-2009 season we'll have a dilema , let chelios walk ( we cant let him keep playing here till 52 , hes gonna cost us some young talent ) .... or trade lebda or ericsson , lebda might be the guy to go , hes gonna cost us more money on the cap after his contract ends

[Reds4Life 51]

Lidstrom Kronwall

Rafalski Lilja

Chelios Lebda

Ericsson and Kindl might play sometimes..

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

I think Lebda is a pretty solid defensemen. Then again I like him even more since he's a Irish alumni.

[Opie 308]

Lidstrom Kronwall

Rafalski Lilja

Chelios Lebda

Ericsson and Kindl might play sometimes..

I almost think you will see it like this for a few years in a row

Lids Ralf

Kronwall Lilja (if they continue to improve they way they are)

Cheli Lebda/Kindl

I think that will be the group for the next 2 years of lids contract, maybe Kindl for Lebda and trade Lebda, I think Meech and Quincey and Lebda are being groomed for trade bait.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

I almost think you will see it like this for a few years in a row

Lids Ralf

Kronwall Lilja (if they continue to improve they way they are)

Cheli Lebda/Kindl

I think that will be the group for the next 2 years of lids contract, maybe Kindl for Lebda and trade Lebda, I think Meech and Quincey and Lebda are being groomed for trade bait.

and ericsson???????

we cant groom all our young defensive prospects and keep trading them to keep older defensemen , then if lidstrom leaves in 2 yrs , and then rafalski who will be like 36-37 and chelios 48 we'll have problems , we cant depend on pyett and smith who will be ready in about 3 yrs to be nhlers

[Reds4Life 51]

Lids Ralf

yea I thought about this two together too, but imho its better to split them, overall team defense is better then.

[Opie 308]

and ericsson???????

we cant groom all our young defensive prospects and keep trading them to keep older defensemen , then if lidstrom leaves in 2 yrs , and then rafalski who will be like 36-37 and chelios 48 we'll have problems , we cant depend on pyett and smith who will be ready in about 3 yrs to be nhlers

I think he will be the logical choice to replace Cheli when he steps out, but I don't care about age, if Cheli, Lids, and Ralf are playing this well you don't let them go just for a potential star or maybe a bust.

You keep Ericsson in GR and let him develop, if he is unhappy with that and wants out then so be it. They can sign a defense man that is a UFA, it would not be like they are looking for a 1-2 d-man they would be looking for a 4-6 d-man.

[T.Low 1,011]

ya i just read that they wanted to resign lilja , i just hope hes just saying this cause hes saying he wants to resign cleary and filppula and doesnt wanna make him feel left out so he plays bad .... bringing lilja makes no sense

Kindl i think will be a top guy for us but i dont think theyll make him play one more year in the ahl

lidstrom rafalski

kronwall lebda

ericsson chelios

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/player...athan_Ericsson/

ericsson will be the guy , hes gonna be 24 next year hes a big body and can actually play ......... meech will be dealt , quincey assuming he can stay one more year in the ahl will stay there and be called up if needed be , hes gonna be the number 7 ...... after 2008-2009 season we'll have a dilema , let chelios walk ( we cant let him keep playing here till 52 , hes gonna cost us some young talent ) .... or trade lebda or ericsson , lebda might be the guy to go , hes gonna cost us more money on the cap after his contract ends

Is there a "Vegas Line" on when Chelios will retire? I'm willing to bet that he's got two more seasons (after this) of whoopass left in him, but three wouldn't suprise me.

There is no replacement for experience like he has. Did you see Hockeytown III? He steals the puck from Avery in practice and starts laughing his ass off as he skates away with it. He then tells Avery "as soon as I saw your hips turn this way, I knew all you could do was go that way" so he stepped in front of him and stole the puck. A little thing, but it illustrates the point that the dude has SEEN IT ALL, and knows what's gonna happen before it happens. He can read the game like a book. As long as his body and general conditioning can keep up (or accel) he is gold to the Wings. Like a player coach/hockey history book on the ice and in the room. Between he and Lidstrom, the young guys have two skating defensive hockey text books to learn from. To have him as the #3 or #4 or even #5 Dman is priceless.

Edited January 10, 2008 by T.Low

[Guest wingswillwincup]

I think he will be the logical choice to replace Cheli when he steps out, but I don't care about age, if Cheli, Lids, and Ralf are playing this well you don't let them go just for a potential star or maybe a bust.

You keep Ericsson in GR and let him develop, if he is unhappy with that and wants out then so be it. They can sign a defense man that is a UFA, it would not be like they are looking for a 1-2 d-man they would be looking for a 4-6 d-man.

keep him in grand rapids and let him develop ?? lol hes turning 24 this year , if we wait for another 2-3 yrs hes gonna be 27 and he wont be a redwing , we cant keep a guy down forever..... i love chelios and all but i personally dont want him around till 52 , hes gonna cost us all of our defensive prospects , i could deal with losing meech and maybe quincey but i dont wanna lose ericsson , kindl .... were gonna have to make some tough choices ahead for our future

Edited January 10, 2008 by wingswillwincup

[FinRedWing 172]

keep him in grand rapids and let him develop ?? lol hes turning 24 this year , if we wait for another 2-3 yrs hes gonna be 27 and he wont be a redwing , we cant keep a guy down forever..... i love chelios and all but i personally dont want him around till 52 , hes gonna cost us all of our defensive prospects , i could deal with losing meech and maybe quincey but i dont wanna lose ericsson , kindl .... were gonna have to make some tough choices ahead for our future

Indeed. I doubt they'll fall into a "I know you all dream about playing in the NHL,but could you wait until 2011" - trap.

[egroen 384]

Until something drastically changes with Chelios' game, you let the man play here as long as he wants. Those who are wanting to run him out due to age are obviously not watching him play. It's like having Fetisov all over again.

[Opie 308]

Is there a "Vegas Line" on when Chelios will retire? I'm willing to bet that he's got two more seasons (after this) of whoopass left in him, but three wouldn't suprise me.

There is no replacement for experience like he has. Did you see Hockeytown III? He steals the puck from Avery in practice and starts laughing his ass off as he skates away with it. He then tells Avery "as soon as I saw your hips turn this way, I knew all you could do was go that way" so he stepped in front of him and stole the puck. A little thing, but it illustrates the point that the dude has SEEN IT ALL, and knows what's gonna happen before it happens. He can read the game like a book. As long as his body and general conditioning can keep up (or accel) he is gold to the Wings. Like a player coach/hockey history book on the ice and in the room. Between he and Lidstrom, the young guys have two skating defensive hockey text books to learn from. To have him as the #3 or #4 or even #5 Dman is priceless.

Similar comparison, the red sox offered Wakefield a lifetime contract worth 4 mil a year, really it is a contract with a crap load of player option years. If he wants more money he can walk whenever he wants, but he cannot come back and ask for the same deal. He won 17 games for them this year, tell me that's not a steal. The wings should tell Cheli, maybe they have idk, you can get 1mil a year contracts each year you play well and stay in shape.

He still is as crafty as any one in the game, I know fans of other teams probably can't wait to see him retire, but if he is this good keep him around, you can not replace his experience.

[FinRedWing 172]

Until something drastically changes with Chelios' game, you let the man play here as long as he wants. Those who are wanting to run him out due to age are obviously not watching him play. It's like having Fetisov all over again.

I have a bad feeling this isn't about kicking Cheli off the team,more like Lilja.

And let the bashing begin...

[Opie 308]

keep him in grand rapids and let him develop ?? lol hes turning 24 this year , if we wait for another 2-3 yrs hes gonna be 27 and he wont be a redwing , we cant keep a guy down forever..... i love chelios and all but i personally dont want him around till 52 , hes gonna cost us all of our defensive prospects , i could deal with losing meech and maybe quincey but i dont wanna lose ericsson , kindl .... were gonna have to make some tough choices ahead for our future

That is why I said if he wants to walk so be it.

Do you know how many can't miss prospects turn into busts. Do you now how many Lids, there are. For that matter Cheli for his price tag will be the best deal on the market for his skill level, same with Ralf who is making just more than Schneids is, and just more than Campbell turned down!!

Let's say at best Ericsson is a 25 year old #5 defenseman, there is no way to replace that?

Lids, Ralf, Kronwall will all be around for at least two years, Lilja, Lebda, Kindl should all be ahead of Ericsson, and that is with out Chris Chelios who is a very very good defenseman in this league.

Like you said earlier there are guys 2-3 years away, this problem is 2-3 years away. And unlike big body banging d-men Ralf, Lids, Cheli won't break down as much because their bodies didn't have the abuse. So their game will still be mental, it won't be like they will go from a banger to a positional player and have to deal with the transition. All they have to do is keep playing their game at the level they are. Hell lids could have a slide in talent over those two years and still be one of the top d-men in the league.

IMHO you can't give up sure fire great defenseman for could be great defenseman, on one hand you have a known, on the other you have an unknown. If you want to compete for a cup year in and year out you have to go with the known.

Do you think that if the wings had Shanny still you would fault the wings for letting Huds play in GR instead?

I know that is hard because some one would say well then you don't need Sammy and then Huds can play, there are a bunch of what ifs but I think the point is still there.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Is there a "Vegas Line" on when Chelios will retire? I'm willing to bet that he's got two more seasons (after this) of whoopass left in him, but three wouldn't suprise me.

There is no replacement for experience like he has. Did you see Hockeytown III? He steals the puck from Avery in practice and starts laughing his ass off as he skates away with it. He then tells Avery "as soon as I saw your hips turn this way, I knew all you could do was go that way" so he stepped in front of him and stole the puck. A little thing, but it illustrates the point that the dude has SEEN IT ALL, and knows what's gonna happen before it happens. He can read the game like a book. As long as his body and general conditioning can keep up (or accel) he is gold to the Wings. Like a player coach/hockey history book on the ice and in the room. Between he and Lidstrom, the young guys have two skating defensive hockey text books to learn from. To have him as the #3 or #4 or even #5 Dman is priceless.

no ones saying chelios is not good , im just saying him keeping him here till hes 50 lol might ruin our future defensive guys .... lidstrom is here as long as he wants and rafalski for another 4 yrs , those 3 guys if there still here will be almost 40,40 and almost 50 lol , we cant have all the grandpa's playing in the backend together and lose guys

its pretty safe to say quincey and meech will have no future here because of it , but im not willing to lose out on ericsson and kindl , pyett and smith will be ready in 3-4 yrs and its not a sure thing that any or both will make the nhl , i hope to god holland is smart enough to let lilja walk and replace him with ericsson , in 2 seasons after this one when kindl is ready then we'll have a touch choice to make ..... trade lebda or ericsson or let chelios walk

[Guest wingswillwincup]

That is why I said if he wants to walk so be it.

Do you know how many can't miss prospects turn into busts. Do you now how many Lids, there are. For that matter Cheli for his price tag will be the best deal on the market for his skill level, same with Ralf who is making just more than Schneids is, and just more than Campbell turned down!!

Let's say at best Ericsson is a 25 year old #5 defenseman, there is no way to replace that?

Lids, Ralf, Kronwall will all be around for at least two years, Lilja, Lebda, Kindl should all be ahead of Ericsson, and that is with out Chris Chelios who is a very very good defenseman in this league.

Like you said earlier there are guys 2-3 years away, this problem is 2-3 years away. And unlike big body banging d-men Ralf, Lids, Cheli won't break down as much because their bodies didn't have the abuse. So their game will still be mental, it won't be like they will go from a banger to a positional player and have to deal with the transition. All they have to do is keep playing their game at the level they are. Hell lids could have a slide in talent over those two years and still be one of the top d-men in the league.

IMHO you can't give up sure fire great defenseman for could be great defenseman, on one hand you have a known, on the other you have an unknown. If you want to compete for a cup year in and year out you have to go with the known.

Do you think that if the wings had Shanny still you would fault the wings for letting Huds play in GR instead?

I know that is hard because some one would say well then you don't need Sammy and then Huds can play, there are a bunch of what ifs but I tink the point is still there.

nobody is saying we got lidstrom type prospects so dont make it sound like i said that ...... i wouldnt put lilja ahead of ericsson , lilja is awful and ericsson deserves to be here instead of him next season. And i did say there are guys 2-4 yrs away but like i also said there not guaranteed to be nhl players so we cant depend on those prospects , we cant be like we can get rid of our young guys now cause we got guys coming up , cause nothing is fore sure they will ever play . You cant keep putting off young guys with talent for 40-50 yr old defensemen cause then will come a point where they retire and we got no guys coming up and we'll have to go to free agency and maybe have to overpay for players who arent as good

Do you think that if the wings had Shanny still you would fault the wings for letting Huds play in GR instead?

----- hudler was out of waiver options , and i would much rather have hudler then shanahan , shanahan has been ok this year and on the decline , id rather have a younger hudler with his vision and playmaking abilities who can still score 20+ then shanny at this stage of his career

You cant keep putting off the younger guys for older players cause eventually itll catch up to you , you gotta blend them in and let them develop, ericsson playing chelios would do wonders for ericsson , lilja is a lost cause

Edited January 10, 2008 by wingswillwincup

[HomeNugget 2]

unless one of the kids really outplays another member of the defense in training camp, i'm content to leave them in GR until they run out of options.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i like our corp, and dont think it will look different at all next year, the only one i think will be gone is meech

[T.Low 1,011]

no ones saying chelios is not good , im just saying him keeping him here till hes 50 lol might ruin our future defensive guys .... lidstrom is here as long as he wants and rafalski for another 4 yrs , those 3 guys if there still here will be almost 40,40 and almost 50 lol , we cant have all the grandpa's playing in the backend together and lose guys

its pretty safe to say quincey and meech will have no future here because of it , but im not willing to lose out on ericsson and kindl , pyett and smith will be ready in 3-4 yrs and its not a sure thing that any or both will make the nhl , i hope to god holland is smart enough to let lilja walk and replace him with ericsson , in 2 seasons after this one when kindl is ready then we'll have a touch choice to make ..... trade lebda or ericsson or let chelios walk

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Opie 308]

nobody is saying we got lidstrom type prospects so dont make it sound like i said that ...... i wouldnt put lilja ahead of ericsson , lilja is awful and ericsson deserves to be here instead of him next season. And i did say there are guys 2-4 yrs away but like i also said there not guaranteed to be nhl players so we cant depend on those prospects , we cant be like we can get rid of our young guys now cause we got guys coming up , cause nothing is fore sure they will ever play . You cant keep putting off young guys with talent for 40-50 yr old defensemen cause then will come a point where they retire and we got no guys coming up and we'll have to go to free agency and maybe have to overpay for players who arent as good

Do you think that if the wings had Shanny still you would fault the wings for letting Huds play in GR instead?

----- hudler was out of waiver options , and i would much rather have hudler then shanahan , shanahan has been ok this year and on the decline , id rather have a younger hudler with his vision and playmaking abilities who can still score 20+ then shanny at this stage of his career

You cant keep putting off the younger guys for older players cause eventually itll catch up to you , you gotta blend them in and let them develop, ericsson playing chelios would do wonders for ericsson , lilja is a lost cause

I think I see your point now and maybe we are arguing different points, but like the post after yours, the only way those guys take Cheli's spot, is if they earn it in camp and out play him. Regardless of age I want the best team on the ice. And you act like this d is all about to turn 40. Lilja (is not awful you are exaggerating), Kronwall, Lebda. If none of them are top 1-2 d-men the team will go get one. Same with if the prospects don't turn into one.

Rookies are not given spots, they earn them by out playing the veteran, nature of the beast. And if that means he has to do it on another team he just wasn't good enough to crack this roster.

And if in 4 years the team is short on D men, they will get them.

I think they have done a great job with the bottle neck at the forward position they had after 02. The let free agent vets walk only when they knew the young guys could handle their roles. Same thing will happen here, but a rookie isn't just given a roster spot.

Unless that forward is AO, Crosby, Kovie, and those guys only got those spots because they are THAT GOOD!!

If you have talent you use it, you can't bank your season on hopes and dreams of youngsters because then if they fail you are in an emergency situation. You either have to trade in a hurry to replace them and other GM's will know, or you decide to grow with them and your team will have growing pains.

But if you have the veteran talent, you play it until some one comes along and plays better. If Ericsson out plays Cheli next year at training camp that is excellent and give him the spot then. Not because he is young and in a couple of years Cheli will be gone.

[betterREDthandead 58]

One in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Precisely.

The whole point of having prospects is that you have a good chance of having a quality player in the future. But knowing you've got a quality player now is better than maybe having one later. Right now the Wings have the best defense in the league, why change for the sake of change?

I think next year's defense will look exactly like this year's, unless Lilja or Lebda are shipped off in a trade. Lilja is not "awful". If people would look around the NHL a bit, I think they'd find that Lilja is one of the best 3rd-pair defensemen in the league.

[T.Low 1,011]

Precisely.

The whole point of having prospects is that you have a good chance of having a quality player in the future. But knowing you've got a quality player now is better than maybe having one later. Right now the Wings have the best defense in the league, why change for the sake of change?

I think next year's defense will look exactly like this year's, unless Lilja or Lebda are shipped off in a trade. Lilja is not "awful". If people would look around the NHL a bit, I think they'd find that Lilja is one of the best 3rd-pair defensemen in the league.

Thank you.

I think there is a certain phenomena brewing in the league in recent years; the rest of the league is recognizing Detroit's talent at picking and then developing young players. And they know that Detroit is stacked with depth, so they see value in the players Detroit doesn't have the room to keep. Detroits prospects may be more highly coveted by the rest of the league than most other teams' prospects are.

And what makes it continue to work, is that the young players know it too. Its a win/win situation. If they are on the bubble in Detroits system, they know that other teams pay more attention to scouting them than other teams farm clubs. If you can't crack the Wings line up, other NHL teams are waiting to pick up the leftovers.

Know what I'm trying to say?

[Guest wingswillwincup]

I think I see your point now and maybe we are arguing different points, but like the post after yours, the only way those guys take Cheli's spot, is if they earn it in camp and out play him. Regardless of age I want the best team on the ice. And you act like this d is all about to turn 40. Lilja (is not awful you are exaggerating), Kronwall, Lebda. If none of them are top 1-2 d-men the team will go get one. Same with if the prospects don't turn into one.

Rookies are not given spots, they earn them by out playing the veteran, nature of the beast. And if that means he has to do it on another team he just wasn't good enough to crack this roster.

And if in 4 years the team is short on D men, they will get them.

I think they have done a great job with the bottle neck at the forward position they had after 02. The let free agent vets walk only when they knew the young guys could handle their roles. Same thing will happen here, but a rookie isn't just given a roster spot.

Unless that forward is AO, Crosby, Kovie, and those guys only got those spots because they are THAT GOOD!!

If you have talent you use it, you can't bank your season on hopes and dreams of youngsters because then if they fail you are in an emergency situation. You either have to trade in a hurry to replace them and other GM's will know, or you decide to grow with them and your team will have growing pains.

But if you have the veteran talent, you play it until some one comes along and plays better. If Ericsson out plays Cheli next year at training camp that is excellent and give him the spot then. Not because he is young and in a couple of years Cheli will be gone.

you actually think they will tell chelios to get lost ??? if they both are as good they wont tell chelios to leave , and the difference is if chelios plays for 2 more years and retires then we can lose a guy who could of been here for 5-10 yrs

anyways lets agree to disagree , i just hope we dont go by your theory and take a chance after cause we might have no one and have to overpay guys

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Precisely.

The whole point of having prospects is that you have a good chance of having a quality player in the future. But knowing you've got a quality player now is better than maybe having one later. Right now the Wings have the best defense in the league, why change for the sake of change?

I think next year's defense will look exactly like this year's, unless Lilja or Lebda are shipped off in a trade. Lilja is not "awful". If people would look around the NHL a bit, I think they'd find that Lilja is one of the best 3rd-pair defensemen in the league.

whats the point of having these quality players in the future if you keep putting them off for aging defensemen ?? thats the point , at this rate meech and quincey have no future here ...... ericsson should but who knows if he will , kindl will but we'll have to trade someone in 2 yrs or let someone go ..... pyett and smith are nice talent but nothing is guaranteed, look at what happened to grigorenko .... nothing is a guarantee

And yes lilja sucks , i cant count how many times hes turned the puck over and given other teams opportunites to score , none more costly then the obvious game last year against the ducks which most likely cost us a stanley cup ... we would of been up 3-1 in the series .......id rather have quincey or ericsson then lilja for next season