Next Year

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Thank you.

I think there is a certain phenomena brewing in the league in recent years; the rest of the league is recognizing Detroit's talent at picking and then developing young players. And they know that Detroit is stacked with depth, so they see value in the players Detroit doesn't have the room to keep. Detroits prospects may be more highly coveted by the rest of the league than most other teams' prospects are.

And what makes it continue to work, is that the young players know it too. Its a win/win situation. If they are on the bubble in Detroits system, they know that other teams pay more attention to scouting them than other teams farm clubs. If you can't crack the Wings line up, other NHL teams are waiting to pick up the leftovers.

Know what I'm trying to say?

what you saying you wanna develop these guys and use them as trade bait because you think other teams believe since were such a good team at developing guys and drafting them and might not have room for them there good players so lets trade with detroit to get them ?? And meanwhile we lose good young talent .... ya nice thinking

[Sparty13 0]

I'm just saying, if Kindl was good enough to almost make the team a couple years ago at 19 years old, he's gotta be that much better now. I wanna see him up here for a september call-up like baseball around late Feb. Give Nick and Cheli a few breathers as long as we have #1 locked up.

[HomeNugget 2]

whats the point of having these quality players in the future if you keep putting them off for aging defensemen ?? thats the point , at this rate meech and quincey have no future here ...... ericsson should but who knows if he will , kindl will but we'll have to trade someone in 2 yrs or let someone go ..... pyett and smith are nice talent but nothing is guaranteed, look at what happened to grigorenko .... nothing is a guarantee

And yes lilja sucks , i cant count how many times hes turned the puck over and given other teams opportunites to score , none more costly then the obvious game last year against the ducks which most likely cost us a stanley cup ... we would of been up 3-1 in the series .......id rather have quincey or ericsson then lilja for next season

we aren't just putting them off for aging defenseman, we're putting them off for better defenseman. rosters spots are earned in training camp. i trust the coaching staff to ice the best possible team every season. if quincey and/or ericsson aren't on the team this year or any year its because they aren't good enough.

[betterREDthandead 58]

whats the point of having these quality players in the future if you keep putting them off for aging defensemen ?? thats the point , at this rate meech and quincey have no future here ...... ericsson should but who knows if he will , kindl will but we'll have to trade someone in 2 yrs or let someone go ..... pyett and smith are nice talent but nothing is guaranteed, look at what happened to grigorenko .... nothing is a guarantee

And yes lilja sucks , i cant count how many times hes turned the puck over and given other teams opportunites to score , none more costly then the obvious game last year against the ducks which most likely cost us a stanley cup ... we would of been up 3-1 in the series .......id rather have quincey or ericsson then lilja for next season

Trade bait? Injuries? Unexpected heart problems? Lots of reasons. If you keep putting them off for aging defensemen, then the aging defensemen must be pretty damn good, right? And you answered your own question. "Nothing is a guarantee." I guarantee Chelios, Lilja, and Lebda are good quality defensemen who can contribute to the Wings. However, I cannot guarantee Meech and Quincey are. Capisce? See why we don't shove the regulars aside for the prospects?

Lilja cost us a Stanley Cup OK, you keep believing that. I suppose you never notice when someone turns the puck over to us, or keep track of who did it....only when Lilja turns it over.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

we aren't just putting them off for aging defenseman, we're putting them off for better defenseman. rosters spots are earned in training camp. i trust the coaching staff to ice the best possible team every season. if quincey and/or ericsson aren't on the team this year or any year its because they aren't good enough.

do you actually think if they were better then chelios or just as good they would tell chelios to take a hike??

lidstrom is here as long as he wants , kronwall and rafalski .... only other guy left is lebda and lilja , lebda is locked for another 2 yrs , so lilja is the oddman out unless holland resigns him like an idiot and then were screwed...... and i dont agree with your assesment that if there not on the team there not good enough

Hudler made the team cause he was out of options for the ahl , i think hes more then proven hes good enough to be here in the last 2 yrs , we got a tendancy to keep the young guys in the minor as long as possible , look at meech now hes not playing but he was here , same will happen with howard next year and quincey if hes still here down the road .... doesnt mean there not good enough to play here we just blow off our youngsters till their waiver options are expired

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Trade bait? Injuries? Unexpected heart problems? Lots of reasons. If you keep putting them off for aging defensemen, then the aging defensemen must be pretty damn good, right? And you answered your own question. "Nothing is a guarantee." I guarantee Chelios, Lilja, and Lebda are good quality defensemen who can contribute to the Wings. However, I cannot guarantee Meech and Quincey are. Capisce? See why we don't shove the regulars aside for the prospects?

Lilja cost us a Stanley Cup OK, you keep believing that. I suppose you never notice when someone turns the puck over to us, or keep track of who did it....only when Lilja turns it over.

lilja coughed the puck that caused anaheim to win the game and come back in the series and win it .... what the hell were you watching ..... and hes coughed up the puck alot this year , hes not good your way too biased cause your a wings fan , probably think everyone on the team is great

Capisce? ----- capisce ???? LOLLL nice one ****** ...........if we keep putting them off for aging defencemen then theyll be 27 by the time they come here and we'll have an aging defensive unit , we gotta blend in the youth we cant just inject 2-3 guys in one shot once lidstrom and chelios retire and lebda hits the open market probably seeking more money then he'd get here ........ capisce ?? LOL .... and like i said on the previous post it doesnt mean there not good enough to be here , just cant see us ever telling chelios to stop playing even if kindl or anyone else is better , we got 3 defensemen who are nhl ready ... meech will be traded this year though but thats another story

Edited January 11, 2008 by wingswillwincup

[T.Low 1,011]

what you saying you wanna develop these guys and use them as trade bait because you think other teams believe since were such a good team at developing guys and drafting them and might not have room for them there good players so lets trade with detroit to get them ?? And meanwhile we lose good young talent .... ya nice thinking

First of all, let me say that I am flatterred that you think its MY plan. I actually have nothing to do with the Red Wings organization. I actually have no influence on their thinking or what they wanna develop. I'm just a fan of the team who shares observations and opinions of the team with virtually anyone that will listen.

Apparently, thats where you come in. See, I'm not saying its anyones' actual thought process, hence the term "phenomena"; its something that is just serendipitously happening. Nothing we can really do about it except draft worse and thats not a good thing (meaning its actually a bad thing to do, so I don't expect to observe the Wings actually doing it).

Finally, I think its a good thing that the Red Wings have such an abundance of talent, they can't get them all on the ice together. Its what is commonly referred to as "a good problem to have". Picture this. If your nickle bag is overflowing with marijuana, while its bad to loose all the pot that can't fit in, at least take joy in knowing that your bag is as full of weed as possible. Thats a good thing.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

First of all, let me say that I am flatterred that you think its MY plan. I actually have nothing to do with the Red Wings organization. I actually have no influence on their thinking or what they wanna develop. I'm just a fan of the team who shares observations and opinions of the team with virtually anyone that will listen.

Apparently, thats where you come in. See, I'm not saying its anyones' actual thought process, hence the term "phenomena"; its something that is just serendipitously happening. Nothing we can really do about it except draft worse and thats not a good thing (meaning its actually a bad thing to do, so I don't expect to observe the Wings actually doing it).

Finally, I think its a good thing that the Red Wings have such an abundance of talent, they can't get them all on the ice together. Its what is commonly referred to as "a good problem to have". Picture this. If your nickle bag is overflowing with marijuana, while its bad to loose all the pot that can't fit in, at least take joy in knowing that your bag is as full of weed as possible. Thats a good thing.

lmao your funny ....... i know having too much talent is a good problem , i just dont think we should keep putting off the young guys forever if their nhl ready for aging defensemen especially guys like lilja who i think we got better players in our system , we just have a tendancy of putting off prospects until their waiver options are done

[betterREDthandead 58]

lilja coughed the puck that caused anaheim to win the game and come back in the series and win it .... what the hell were you watching ..... and hes coughed up the puck alot this year , hes not good your way too biased cause your a wings fan , probably think everyone on the team is great

Capisce? ----- capisce ???? LOLLL nice one ****** ...........if we keep putting them off for aging defencemen then theyll be 27 by the time they come here and we'll have an aging defensive unit , we gotta blend in the youth we cant just inject 2-3 guys in one shot once lidstrom and chelios retire and lebda hits the open market probably seeking more money then he'd get here ........ capisce ?? LOL .... and like i said on the previous post it doesnt mean they're not good enough to be here , just cant see us ever telling chelios to stop playing even if kindl or anyone else is better , we got 3 defensemen who are nhl ready ... meech will be traded this year though but thats another story

Correction. We have six defensemen that are NHL ready, because they are playing regularly in the NHL. We have several defensemen in GR that you think are NHL ready. And given your opinion of Lilja and the fact that your best argument is "LOLLLL ******", maybe it shouldn't surprise you that I don't exactly trust your evaluation of the rest of them. I'll stop using big words like "capisce", it strikes me that you might not know what it means.

Here's another question. If Lilja's that awful, and we have a full stable of "NHL-ready" prospects, why didn't Lilja get cut and Quincey or Meech take his spot during training camp?

[HomeNugget 2]

Correction. We have six defensemen that are NHL ready, because they are playing regularly in the NHL. We have several defensemen in GR that you think are NHL ready. And given your opinion of Lilja and the fact that your best argument is "LOLLLL ******", maybe it shouldn't surprise you that I don't exactly trust your evaluation of the rest of them. I'll stop using big words like "capisce", it strikes me that you might not know what it means.

Here's another question. If Lilja's that awful, and we have a full stable of "NHL-ready" prospects, why didn't Lilja get cut and Quincey or Meech take his spot during training camp?

this is exactly what i'm getting at. the best players will play. just because a guy is nhl ready that doesn't necassarily mean that he's red wings ready.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Correction. We have six defensemen that are NHL ready, because they are playing regularly in the NHL. We have several defensemen in GR that you think are NHL ready. And given your opinion of Lilja and the fact that your best argument is "LOLLLL ******", maybe it shouldn't surprise you that I don't exactly trust your evaluation of the rest of them. I'll stop using big words like "capisce", it strikes me that you might not know what it means.

Here's another question. If Lilja's that awful, and we have a full stable of "NHL-ready" prospects, why didn't Lilja get cut and Quincey or Meech take his spot during training camp?

ya thats it my best argument is ****** , this coming fromt he guy who uses capisce like he knows everything about hockey lol and acts like hes superior .....give me a break .. i dont exactly trust anything you have to say either so at least thats one thing we got in common

the wings like to keep prospects in the minors as long as possible , how many times i gotta say that ?? And lilja is the only big body we got on defense , doesnt mean hes great

lets just agree to disagree thats about the only thing we'll ever have in common, is that you dont agree with anything im saying and i feel the same about you , that and were a redwings fan , thats about it

[HomeNugget 2]

ya thats it my best argument is ****** , this coming fromt he guy who uses capisce like he knows everything about hockey lol and acts like hes superior .....give me a break .. i dont exactly trust anything you have to say either so at least thats one thing we got in common

the wings like to keep prospects in the minors as long as possible , how many times i gotta say that ?? And lilja is the only big body we got on defense , doesnt mean hes great

lets just agree to disagree thats about the only thing we'll ever have in common, is that you dont agree with anything im saying and i feel the same about you , that and were a redwings fan , thats about it

the wings keep kids in the minors until they're ready. for some guys (hudler, kopecky) that means they stay down until they run out of options. others (datsyuk, zetterberg, franzen) make the jump immediately. and some (kronwall, filppula) only spend a season or two in grand rapids.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

the wings keep kids in the minors until they're ready. for some guys (hudler, kopecky) that means they stay down until they run out of options. others (datsyuk, zetterberg, franzen) make the jump immediately. and some (kronwall, filppula) only spend a season or two in grand rapids.

hudler would of probably still be there if it wasnt for waiver options , and hes proven he can play ...... datsyuk didnt make the jump immediately he was 23 when he played , 5 yrs later .........franzen was drafted as a 24-25 yr old i believe .......zetterberg 22 , they got a history for letting guys wait it out before bringing them up

[HomeNugget 2]

hudler would of probably still be there if it wasnt for waiver options , and hes proven he can play ...... datsyuk didnt make the jump immediately he was 23 when he played , 5 yrs later .........franzen was drafted as a 24-25 yr old i believe .......zetterberg 22 , they got a history for letting guys wait it out before bringing them up

but the wings aren't passing over young guys in favor of veterans. datsyuk made the team in 2002, and zetterberg and bykov in 2003. those were all-star rosters. guys get the call when they're ready.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

but the wings aren't passing over young guys in favor of veterans. datsyuk made the team in 2002, and zetterberg and bykov in 2003. those were all-star rosters. guys get the call when they're ready.

i just dont wanna see us inject 2-3 guys in the backend in one shot , id like to see them get blend in gradually with the veterans , and i dont see us getting rid of chelios even if a younger player was as good or better .........so basically leaves us lebda whos tied up for 2 other years or lilja ...... in my eyes ericsson SHOULD play next year and kindl in 2 , and that means meech and quincey have no future here , especially meech .... so that means the wings are gonna have some choices to make , im still hoping that kenny is just saying he wants to resign lilja since hes mentioning the obvious of wanting to resign filppula and cleay and doesnt wanna let lilja feel like hes got no future here so he wont be distracted playing now

[T.Low 1,011]

this is exactly what i'm getting at. the best players will play. just because a guy is nhl ready that doesn't necassarily mean that he's red wings ready.

That is so frikkin what I meant that I have to try saying it myself:

this is exactly what i'm getting at. the best players will play. just because a guy is nhl ready that doesn't necassarily mean that he's red wings ready.

Wow. That felt great. RIGHT ON!

[Opie 308]

the wings like to keep prospects in the minors as long as possible , how many times i gotta say that ??

This is all I need to know, the wings have managed to stay in the top of the league, not division, not conference, LEAGUE by rotating young players in and picking up a veteran guy to fill in where needed for the past 15 years. Included in that are 3 Stanley cups, and right now they are on a pace to set a club best record if not League best.

Why on Earth would they change their approach.

just dont think we should keep putting off the young guys forever if their nhl ready for aging defensemen especially guys like lilja who i think we got better players in our system ,

These aging defense man are premier defenseman, like it or not on any other team Cheli is a 2-3 d-man. He plays the 5-6 role on this team how is hurting to have a guy playing at a very high level, killing penalties, instead of a young unproven talent. You want to play Kindl or Ericsson over Cheli, when you have no idea what they will bring to the table in the NHL. Lilja, was on his way to being the hero of that game, if the pp scores ONE goal on a 5-3 that series shifts momentum and the wings have the series in their favor due to mighty mo. Then everyone is singing the praises of Lilja. Because he is not Lids or Ralf doesn't mean he is awful or he sucks. And to prove it, lets use the rule of 3, people always say something is luck unless you can do it 3x's. So lets use that rule here, you have one example of how he sucked and cost the wings a game (notice I don't say us, I am not a part of the team). So you only need two more, and I am not even asking for playoff suckage, just suckage, hell if you can provide evidence that he cost them a pre season game I will take it.

But your opinion of him is he sucks, I think he is not bad, not great, he is a decent 4-6 D-man. What I do know is that he is playing on a team that is doing pretty good this year and he has played quite a few of those games. Ericsson and Kindl on the other hand all we know about them is what they can do against inferior talent.

Now we can only find out what they will do in the bigs if they get time there, I understand that argument. However,imo, if you have Cheli (current playing level), Lids, Ralf, (seeing as they are the only aging d) you do not walk away from experience and talent. There is a post, that has a blip from an article, talking about how Cheli stole the puck from Avery in a practice because he saw him turn his hips and knew where he was going and how to take an angle and steal the puck. That is not teachable, you learn that through experience and that Cheli, Lids, Ralf have a ton of that, Kindl, Ericsson, Meech, Quincey do not.

If there is no room on this team there is no room on this team.

Again, look at how they handled the forward positions after '02.

If Holland, Babs and Co. see it fit to bring up a youngster I am sure there is justification, and if not who the hell am I to tell them otherwise, so if they don't see it fit to bring him up so be it.

This team has done a fantastic job in the last 15 years of keeping the team competitive every year, without mortgaging the future, I am sure they will continue to do the same.

You apparently will never agree with me on that, however, that is you prerogative, you can do what you want to do (the Bobby Brown paraphrase was free of charge ).

But in all seriousness, if in two years Cheli walks out and the team is in a pinch at the number 5 spot they will fill that spot.

Because unless Ericsson or Kindl come out and have Calder years or absolutely dazzle the pants off of the wings staff they will be 4-6 d-men, the wings could find that if need be, hell they had the money to overpay Markov if they wanted, they didn't see the need and let him go. Some on here still think that is a mistake and they should sign him from Russia. I on the other hand think this team is unreal right now and wouldn't change a thing, Lilja, Sammy, Downey, McCarty, Kindl, etc. included!!

[egroen 384]

...we just have a tendancy of putting off prospects until their waiver options are done

Holland has often attributed this to part of the success the Wings have been able to maintain. Players are given time to work on their game and mature (or prove beyond a reasonable doubt they will never be ready) before they are thrown into the league.

I think an argument can be made that Zetterberg and Datsyuk would not be as good today (or even still with the Red Wings) if they had been playing as teenagers in the NHL. That holds even more true for defensemen and goalies, who take even longer to develop.

[Grittzkey 1]

I dont see it being any diffrent. But i would like to see Erickksson get a chance soon though.. He seems promising.

Lilja cost us a Stanley Cup laugh.gif OK, you keep believing that. I suppose you never notice when someone turns the puck over to us, or keep track of who did it....only when Lilja turns it over.

Its in the Michiganders blood to put blame on the weak..

Edited January 12, 2008 by Grittzkey

[imisssergei 0]

For the record.

Datsyuk: drafted in 1998, made the team as a regular in 2001.

Zetterburg: drafted in 1999, made the team as a regular in 2002.

Filpulla: drafted in 2002, made the team as a regular in 2006.

Fedorov: drafted in 1989, made the team as a regular in 1990.

Lidstrom: drafter in 1989, made the team as a regular in 1991.

The point is if the player is ready, he won't sit in the minors and rot. If he is good enough, he will play. The Wings aren't keeping these guys in GR because they can. They are keeping these guys in GR because that is where they belong.

As for being 'NHL ready', that is such a bulls*** term. If the guy is 'NHL ready' he would be playing in the NHL. The Wings might have a few guys in GR who are playing very well in GR, but that doesn't necessarily translate into success at the NHL level. It's a completely different game.

Chelios and Lidstrom will play for the Wings until they decide it's time to move on, or until they play their way off the roster. If ANY of the guys in GR were good enough to be on the team this year they would be on the team.

On a side note, I don't see the Wings letting Lebda go. He is the type of dman they like. He moves the puck well, and plays a great transition game. Kenny and Babs seem to really like Lilja. I see the odd man out as Kronwall, if anyone.