Kronwall And 1st Round Pick For Sundin?

[SweWings 45]

Btw... Kronwall is finally getting some love around here... Good stuff!!

[Booster313 138]

Kronwall has a long way to go before I would consider him an elite defensmen, but he has the time to get there. Sundin is 37 and although he is amazing, I don't want to trade away our future for someone we would only see here for a month. Now Kronwall for Hossa I'd consider, with the stipulation that an extension was part of the deal and we still have cap space to retain Z.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Booster313

[Opie 308]

Kronwall (and a 1st rounder) for Sundin only if Holland could get Mats to sign on for a few more seasons with us.

QFT 100% in agreement with you!!!

Milan Michalek might not be having a very good season but he's a terrific talent and if I were the Sharks he's be one of the last guys I'd trade.

I just have two words for you Joe Thornton, actually that is two names but you get the point.

That guy made Cheechoo and great player, he has turned a decent defensive forward in Michalek into a scoring threat.

Sometimes I think you could put Thornton out there with a dead guy and some one in a coma and he would turn them into all Stars!!!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Kronwall for Sundin... Pass.

Lilja for Sundin... Accepted.

Well, that's as unrealistic as Kronwall for Sundin. No way would I take Sundin for Kronwall even straight up with the level of Play Kronner has played of late, just like there's no way the Leafs would take Lilja for Sundin.

Keep in mind, Kronwall's contract will be a steal the next few years if this current level of play continues.

Edit: Addition

Edited January 23, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[johnnyoski 0]

I couldn't pull the trigger on that trade now. Kronner is finally healthy and living up to his potential.

I'm in agreement with all of you that the asking price is too high for a rental player.

[akustyk 84]

this is a fair deal, even if us, Wings fans have it difficult to admit it.

Sundin is worth this much as a rental.

the other question is if Wings are in the position to do this trade and

sacrifice some future for just a rental player? IMHO, yes, Wings are in

position to go for the cup this year and Sundin sits perfectly good

for our plans. I'd say: yes, Kenny, go for it.

sure, Kronwall is future top-2 defensemen for any other NHL team

than Wings (and Ducks with Scotty *cough* All-Star back in lineup).

and sure, 1st round picks don't exactly grow on trees - even more

those of supposedly deep draft. then again... Stanley Cups don't

come for free and you have to take the risk sometimes. we collected

talent and picks for few years now - time to use them to get a big

fish and ride it all the way down into playoffs. Wings 2008 are

better than Wings 2007 and they're worth this risk

[lets go pavel 2]

wait a second, we're all looking at how this plays out in future seasons ... kronwall is on the rise, sundin may not re-sign, etc, so it's a bad deal ...

but what about this year? personally, i don't think trading kronwall for sundin gives us a better shot at the cup now ... yes it brings us some more scoring, but look what it does to our defense ... if kronner is gone that leaves probably meech or quincey stepping into a starting role, and that's if noone gets hurt ...

lidstrom - rafalski

lilja - quincey/meech

chelios - lebda

i don't like the looks of that ... which means we'd need to then go out and acquire another D-man (which many of us already say we need with kronner) to replace kronner ... what's the point?

i think the bottom line is that while kronner-for-sundin might seem like a reasonable trade skillwise, it creates more problems than it solves for the team this year ... i don't see us moving any regulars, especially on defense, which is why we're probably not going to land sundin

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

HAHAHAHA. Ummmmmmmm... NO.

[edicius 3,269]

<< defers to avatar

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

How about Lilja and Samuelsson for Sundin. This way the Leafs would get 2 great Swedes instead of just one. It's so mathematically simple.

[akustyk 84]

but what about this year? personally, i don't think trading kronwall for sundin gives us a better shot at the cup now ... yes it brings us some more scoring, but look what it does to our defense ... if kronner is gone that leaves probably meech or quincey stepping into a starting role, and that's if noone gets hurt ...

the thing is, you can't have it all under salary cap. and our D is deeper than forward crop.

Sundin does not only bring scoring etc., but he also comes with huuuuuge boost in

leadership and experience. this is more important void to fill for Holland, because once

the opposing team learns how to shut down ZDH line (and you sure bet every single

team will focus on learning them and putting their best D-mean on ice to not let

Hank and Pavel generate offence) we're left pretty flat. not to take anything from

Hudler, Franzen, Cleary etc., but they're not exactly the most skilled guys out there

and most certainly not ones who change the game by their sheer will. now Sundin is.

he is definitely capable of changing the fortunes by his play. hiss skills, charisma,

example, etc.

you can only dream of having such a guy on your roster heading to playoffs. its definitely

about his knowledge, experience and leadership. playoffs where the real competition

starts - that's his game. and this is where he excels.

speaking of Quincey... he did play last year and if not spectacular he was pretty

reliable in his own end. he actually was better in this aspect than our regular

D-man Lebda. sure, Lebda 2008 might be better than 2007 but same can be said

of Quincey.

Edited January 23, 2008 by akustyk

[Matt 1,049]

Kronwall WILL NOT be traded for a rental player.

It. Will. Not. Happen.

[akustyk 84]

Kronwall WILL NOT be traded for a rental player.

It. Will. Not. Happen.

knowing Holland and his refusal to take part with players he developed

as cornerstones of Wings - I'm quite sure it point will point not point

happen point

but if I was him and saw that 2008-09 will have huge part of Wings

budget locked in Dats+Zet leaving much less room to sign quality

players - I'd strongly consider moving some assets now and making

a real run for the cup A.D. 2008. it's not Holland style but with Sundin

on the line I'd most certainly consider this. Sundin is worth this price

for us and there's no doubt this deal improves Wings now. if this

means a cup and then some tough years I'm fine with that. I'd feel

better with this 4th Stanley than yet another President's Trophy.

my 0.02 EUR

Edited January 23, 2008 by akustyk

[lets go pavel 2]

the thing is, you can't have it all under salary cap. and our D is deeper than forward crop.

Sundin does not only bring scoring etc., but he also comes with huuuuuge boost in

leadership and experience. this is more important void to fill for Holland, because once

the opposing team learns how to shut down ZDH line (and you sure bet every single

team will focus on learning them and putting their best D-mean on ice to not let

Hank and Pavel generate offence) we're left pretty flat. not to take anything from

Hudler, Franzen, Cleary etc., but they're not exactly the most skilled guys out there

and most certainly not ones who change the game by their sheer will. now Sundin is.

he is definitely capable of changing the fortunes by his play. hiss skills, charisma,

example, etc.

you can only dream of having such a guy on your roster heading to playoffs. its definitely

about his knowledge, experience and leadership. playoffs where the real competition

starts - that's his game. and this is where he excels.

speaking of Quincey... he did play last year and if not spectacular he was pretty

reliable in his own end. he actually was better in this aspect than our regular

D-man Lebda. sure, Lebda 2008 might be better than 2007 but same can be said

of Quincey.

i hear you, and maybe the leadership and scoring depth is a bigger concern, but i just don't think it makes sense to create a problem in order to fix a problem, especially when there will be other options for scoring depth at the deadline ... i'd love to see sundin in the red and white, but unless toronto is willing to take picks and prospects i don't think we can afford to give them what they want ...

[union drone 0]

Unless there is a strong indication that Sundin will be more than a rental, he is not worth giving up any core players or top prospects for, IMHO.

[Reds4Life 51]

Sundin ≠ Cup

And trading Kronwall for Sundin would be really stupid and it is not gonna happen.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

knowing Holland and his refusal to take part with players he developed

as cornerstones of Wings - I'm quite sure it point will point not point

happen point

but if I was him and saw that 2008-09 will have huge part of Wings

budget locked in Dats+Zet leaving much less room to sign quality

players - I'd strongly consider moving some assets now and making

a real run for the cup A.D. 2008. it's not Holland style but with Sundin

on the line I'd most certainly consider this. Sundin is worth this price

for us and there's no doubt this deal improves Wings now. if this

means a cup and then some tough years I'm fine with that. I'd feel

better with this 4th Stanley than yet another President's Trophy.

my 0.02 EUR

If you're concerned about the Wings having room to sign quality players than you should absolutely not want Kronwall moved. If this level of play keeps up, he's a steal for the money he's getting. It's the players that have the big contracts that aren't pulling their weight that need to be moved, not a guy that's pretty much getting to the point where he's underpaid already, and will be even moreso at the end of next season.

Edited January 23, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Matt 1,049]

For Sundin I wouldn't consider trading Kronwall at all. For Hossa I'd contemplate it more for one simple reason: Hossa would be a "hockey trade" and not simply a rental, as I don't see any sane scenario that the Wings wouldn't retain Hossa without a contract extension as a condition of the trade.

It is MUCH harder to develop (or hell, having the *chance* to develop) a player of Kronwall's ilk. As long as he's healthy and confident we've seen what he's capable of over the course of the last 20+ games. He's a keeper, and someone that will be a bargain to the nth degree relative to his cap number.

As a comparison, who would you want on your roster right now: the Kings' Brad Stuart, who gobbles up $3.5-million of your cap, or Kronwall, who consumes $3-million from now until 2012.

Contracts like that are why Holland is considered one of the best GMs in the game.

But you want to throw that kind of contract, that kind of deal on a top-four (future top two, if everything works out such as health and progress), away for a rental player?

Not a chance.

(This is not to say I don't want Sundin on this team -- he'd be a fantastic addition -- but I don't want him at the cost of Kronwall.)

[Opie 308]

This team may be deeper at the D positions as far as prospects go, but if you are talking Roster ready players the forward position far out weighs the D position. Most of the D is guys who have not played at the NHL level or 5-6 d-men who have shown they can play limited minutes in the D. Meech Quincey are not replacing Kronwall or Lilja.

Forward position this team has proved and is currently proving that they can win without Z for a stretch and without Z and Homer for a stretch.

They can afford to trade a forward, they can afford to trade D prospects, but trading Kronwall is a huge no way!!

[stormboy 47]

no f***in' way.

[Third Man In 2,091]

NBC needs to get Pierre Maguire away from rinkside. Looks like he took one too many stray sticks to the head, eh?

Let's see: a young, inexpensive, hard-hitting, solid defenceman with good hands and still a lot of upside in exchange for a rental player that doesn't fit an obvious need. I love Sundin, but this trade will not happen. The only trades I see Holland making, baring injury, is either a player or two to fill out the third and fourth lines or a depth defenceman.

[wingsfan40 0]

We gotta hold on to kronner...I really would like to see how far we go with no rental players this year

[up2here 41]

I think we may be losing sight of the ultimate goal,the Stanley Cup.Its not our goal to be a team that almost wins for 5 years. Having Sundin in our line-up does not guarantee a cup but no trade does that. It would however make us WAY more difficult to beat. Also consider the effects of losing Hank for the playoff run due to his chronic balky back. Having Sundin provides insurance against an injury. Losing Kronwall would suck for our defence but we actually have enough cap room to add a physical d-man as well.

[shannyfan1414 0]

We gotta hold on to kronner...I really would like to see how far we go with no rental players this year

I agree that we need to hang on to Kronner. He is playing the best he has since coming to Detroit. He is showing a lot of potential and i think that he will be more then capable of filling Lidstrom's shoes once he retires.

I would love to see us win a cup without any rental players. I hate the whole idea of rental players. I think that it is a shame that this practice is still alive today.

Realistically, we will end up with at least one rental player. I hope that who ever we get helps us win the cup and then that player decides to stay in Detroit.

[lets go pavel 2]

I think we may be losing sight of the ultimate goal,the Stanley Cup.Its not our goal to be a team that almost wins for 5 years. Having Sundin in our line-up does not guarantee a cup but no trade does that. It would however make us WAY more difficult to beat. Also consider the effects of losing Hank for the playoff run due to his chronic balky back. Having Sundin provides insurance against an injury. Losing Kronwall would suck for our defence but we actually have enough cap room to add a physical d-man as well.

the issue isn't cap room ... why get rid of a defenseman only to have to go try to find another one (who doesn't know our system) to replace him? plus we usually give up draft picks with every trade ... quality defensemen are in shorter supply than quality forwards, and they always say defense wins championships ... sundin would be nice, but we can add scoring depth without giving up an integral part of our defense ...