Official: Selanne signs with Ducks

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GordieSid&Ted all you seem to do is chalk up the anger for these moves to homerism but lets look at the facts....

If the Ducks had brought these guys back from day 1 they would be over cap, or at least at a point with no flexibility. Now lets look at the Wings with Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and soon to be Z all at HUGE contracts. Now lets assume that Cleary signs for 2.5 million after this year and then at the end of the 2008-2009 season when Zetterberg needs to re-sign they can't fit him under the cap with all these salaries so Lidstrom, doesn't know if he wants to play next season, and sits out despite being under contract, and then lets assume another player was a UFA (I checked no high profile player is but lets assume here), so with Lidstrom sitting out and our assumed UFA Sitting out the Wings re-sign Zetterberg and are safe under cap.

Now the season is halfway done and Lidstrom decides he does want to play and his cap with is now only 3.7 million and the assumed UFA then decides to come back a month later at a low cap hit as well, and for the playoffs the Wings have managed to retain Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski, and the high profile UFA and are now no longer a good team in the playoff hunt but a playoff favorite....

Now as a fan to any other team in the league how would you feel about this....PISSED!!!!!

That is why we are mad here because they went from a team that couldn't afford all of their players under cap, to a playoff contender with no Neidermayer or Selanne, to a team with both those guys, under cap, room for another trade at deadline, and a playoff favorite....

It has nopthing to do with homerism it has to do with s***ty loopholes that should be abolished, same a lamorello getting rid of Mogilny and Malakhov's contracts 2 years ago, its sneaky and kind of bogus,.

Look, I just posted an Old Testament-sized reply about what I think the league should do to stop this from happening in the future. The reason I call out homerism is because being pissed that the Ducks are working the system is completely different than the rules being broken. The rules, as they are say there's nothing wrong with this. Therefore, I gotta abide by that rule. I can't call out the Ducks and then let the Wings live by a different rulebook. ergoen said it best, "if kenny pulled this i'd probably think he was a genius". And I agree. Doesn't mean I think the league shouldn't stop it in the future. All it means is the Ducks used the rules to their advantage. I can be as pissed about it as I want but it doesn't make what they did illegal. The league should stop it though going forward. For now, why cry over spilt milk? What's done is done.

So I think I addressed the Wings scenario you put forth as I agree the league should fix this in situations where players are under contract. However, I can't agree with you lumping Selanne into that framework. Those are 2 entirely different situations and you can read my prior post for clarification on that.

As for the Mogilny and Malakhov deals. Yeah, a loophole was there and frankly I have no problem with that either. The Devils needed to shed salary and the Sharks had room to take that salary on. The Sharks got a nice juicy pick out of the deal and Lamo got under the cap. Neither team had a problem with making the deal so why should I? No different than one company trading carbon points to another company with lesser emissions. That's how I look at it anyway.

I understand people being pissed. I don't like it either. But as i've said a hundred times, being pissed doesn't make what's happening today illegal. Doesn't mean I don't think the league should fix it. But the rules allowed it this year so who am I to retroactively change the rules in mid-season.

The homerism comments are for people who ramrod the Ducks for this and would be doing cartwheels if Kenny pulled it off. These people will make any excuse to ***** when the other guy does it and will make up any reason for why its okay if the Wings do it. Read these folks posts, its no mystery who they are.

Be pissed about it all you want. Its the rules. They used them to their advantage and I gotta deal with it. I hope they change the rule but for now, all i'm concerned about is beating the Ducks regardless of who is in their lineup. I see no good coming from crying about their additions. We need to worry about our own house instead of what the other guy is doing.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

That's why people are upset. It goes both ways GS&T. Let me ask you this, do you think there is a single club that wouldn't sign Selanne right now for that light contract he accepted? The answer is no. What upsets people is had Selanne gone to Free Agency this off season the offers would've been pouring in for well over $4 million per. Instead, he sits and then signs with his former team for a joke of a contract so it won't affect their cap by much of anything. Whether people have sour grapes or not, it doesn't mean it isn't a little unfair to the other 29 teams.

Rather, I think there is something that can be done to rectify this situation. Where I do agree with you on is your idea to put an actual date as to when a contractually obligated player has to proclaim whether he's going to play or sit for the season (thus having the cap hit start on that date). This would help keep all teams in check when it comes to the cap, and I feel you should lump all players into this regardless of whether they have a contract or are UFA's unless they have a third party doctor to deem a player unfit to play. With that, I agree as well with a cut-off date for that as well. Perhaps something like December 1st. That gives players plenty of time to determine whether they are healthy enough to play, and if they can't by that date, better luck next year. The point is that the *cap hit* has to begin earlier than when Teemu's will.

Regarding Selanne, none of it means anything to me unless it can be proven that Burke and Teemu colluded after last season to go through with this. I'm not accusing them of anything so the burden of proof lies with those who would. I will not question the man's character or morals when I don't know him, his situation or his brain. I dont' find it as far fetched to think he could've waffled all along. That's just me. But again, I'm not accusing him so I don't have to prove any collusion, link, underhandedness, etc...... And no, i'm not going to just think its shady because it doesn't work out best for the Wings.

Sure, 29 other teams can and would've paid for his services. But can you say definitively that Selanne would've signed anywhere other than Anaheim? I doubt it. He's beholden to nobody. He could've signed for millions somewhere else but took pennies to re-up with the Ducks. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me if i'm the player. Why would I want to intentionally miss doing the thing I love and then get paid like a #9 defenseman when I come back? Just more proof in my mind that there's nothing shady about this at all. Anyway, unless someone has definitive proof Selanne would've entertained offers from other teams in the first place the entire point regarding fairness to the other 29 teams is moot.

I'm not sure about you're comments regarding UFA's and their cap hits. I'm going to have to think about that somewhat, make sure I understand what you're saying.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I understand people being pissed. I don't like it either. But as i've said a hundred times, being pissed doesn't make what's happening today illegal. Doesn't mean I don't think the league should fix it. But the rules allowed it this year so who am I to retroactively change the rules in mid-season.

Then you need to stop commenting on that point alone. Most fans with knowledge of whats going on know that Burke worked the system brilliantly and did nothing wrong. Nobody's arguing that he did. However, people are allowed to voice their displeasure over the situation, because *like you* they don't like it either.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Regarding Selanne, none of it means anything to me unless it can be proven that Burke and Teemu colluded after last season to go through with this. I'm not accusing them of anything so the burden of proof lies with those who would. I will not question the man's character or morals when I don't know him, his situation or his brain. I dont' find it as far fetched to think he could've waffled all along. That's just me. But again, I'm not accusing him so I don't have to prove any collusion, link, underhandedness, etc...... And no, i'm not going to just think its shady because it doesn't work out best for the Wings.

Sure, 29 other teams can and would've paid for his services. But can you say definitively that Selanne would've signed anywhere other than Anaheim? I doubt it. He's beholden to nobody. He could've signed for millions somewhere else but took pennies to re-up with the Ducks. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me if i'm the player. Why would I want to intentionally miss doing the thing I love and then get paid like a #9 defenseman when I come back? Just more proof in my mind that there's nothing shady about this at all. Anyway, unless someone has definitive proof Selanne would've entertained offers from other teams in the first place the entire point regarding fairness to the other 29 teams is moot.

No, I can't say whether or not Teemu would've signed anywhere else, and more than likely he probably wouldn't have signed elsewhere, but that doesn't make the situation any different whether he's a Duck or had be been a Red Wing. If Kenny pulled something like this before anyone else, I would absolutely state that the Wings brass got away with one. I'm not upset that the Ducks pulled this off because if any GM would think of doing something like this, its Burke. It just needs to be addressed regardless of whether it was planned or not. Until then, let people be frazzled by it. They have a good reason to be just like you have a reason not to be.

I'm not sure about you're comments regarding UFA's and their cap hits. I'm going to have to think about that somewhat, make sure I understand what you're saying.

Why should UFA's be allowed to come back whenever they choose? You said yourself you don't like it, so why not put a deadline date on that as well?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Then you need to stop commenting on that point alone. Most fans with knowledge of whats going on know that Burke worked the system brilliantly and did nothing wrong. Nobody's arguing that he did. However, people are allowed to voice their displeasure over the situation, because *like you* they don't like it either.

There's a world of difference between being pissed about it but admitting the system got worked versus spewing conspiracy theories, questioning the morals and ethics of Niedermayer, Burke, Selanne, etc.... A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

You think if people had simply stated that they don't like this but understand how Burke may have worked the system I would've had any beef to begin with?

Please Mac, give me a break. Check the threads and you can see it for yourself. People making blanket statements such as "I lost respect for Selanne". On what ******* grounds? Explain that! These threads have been filled with many well thought out (sarcasm) accusations and theories with no proof, just accusations.

Very few people came out and said they didn't like it but understood it. Only in the last 2 pages of this thread have people started doing that.

Check the thread when Neids came back and now this stuff with Selanne. People did NOT simply say they were pissed about it but understood it. Go ahead and check for yourself.

Edited January 29, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

No, I can't say whether or not Teemu would've signed anywhere else, and more than likely he probably wouldn't have signed elsewhere, but that doesn't make the situation any different whether he's a Duck or had be been a Red Wing. If Kenny pulled something like this before anyone else, I would absolutely state that the Wings brass got away with one. I'm not upset that the Ducks pulled this off because if any GM would think of doing something like this, its Burke. It just needs to be addressed regardless of whether it was planned or not. Until then, let people be frazzled by it. They have a good reason to be just like you have a reason not to be.

Why should UFA's be allowed to come back whenever they choose? You said yourself you don't like it, so why not put a deadline date on that as well?

I didn't say I did not like UFA's coming back whenever they want. I thought I specifically said I have no problem with UFA's as they are beholden to nobody. The only thing about it that pisses me off is that the Ducks got better, nothing bothers me about the actual workings of it. I think its fine. The league already has a drop dead date for stuff like that don't they? A UFA can't sign on the day before the 1st round of the playoffs, right? That being the case there's nothing to be pissed about re: selanne except maybe the Ducks getting better.

As for the bolded part, yeah I get overzealous about stuff like that. But people aren't just being pissed about it. They're spewing conspiracies and such. They did it with Niedermayer and now they're doing it with Teemu. IMO, I think that's lazy, reckless behavior with no proof that tries to impugn the credibility and character of 2 players who've never had their character be put into question before this.

[russianswede919293 95]

Look, I just posted an Old Testament-sized reply about what I think the league should do to stop this from happening in the future. The reason I call out homerism is because being pissed that the Ducks are working the system is completely different than the rules being broken. The rules, as they are say there's nothing wrong with this. Therefore, I gotta abide by that rule. I can't call out the Ducks and then let the Wings live by a different rulebook. ergoen said it best, "if kenny pulled this i'd probably think he was a genius". And I agree. Doesn't mean I think the league shouldn't stop it in the future. All it means is the Ducks used the rules to their advantage. I can be as pissed about it as I want but it doesn't make what they did illegal. The league should stop it though going forward. For now, why cry over spilt milk? What's done is done.

So I think I addressed the Wings scenario you put forth as I agree the league should fix this in situations where players are under contract. However, I can't agree with you lumping Selanne into that framework. Those are 2 entirely different situations and you can read my prior post for clarification on that.

As for the Mogilny and Malakhov deals. Yeah, a loophole was there and frankly I have no problem with that either. The Devils needed to shed salary and the Sharks had room to take that salary on. The Sharks got a nice juicy pick out of the deal and Lamo got under the cap. Neither team had a problem with making the deal so why should I? No different than one company trading carbon points to another company with lesser emissions. That's how I look at it anyway.

I understand people being pissed. I don't like it either. But as i've said a hundred times, being pissed doesn't make what's happening today illegal. Doesn't mean I don't think the league should fix it. But the rules allowed it this year so who am I to retroactively change the rules in mid-season.

The homerism comments are for people who ramrod the Ducks for this and would be doing cartwheels if Kenny pulled it off. These people will make any excuse to ***** when the other guy does it and will make up any reason for why its okay if the Wings do it. Read these folks posts, its no mystery who they are.

Be pissed about it all you want. Its the rules. They used them to their advantage and I gotta deal with it. I hope they change the rule but for now, all i'm concerned about is beating the Ducks regardless of who is in their lineup. I see no good coming from crying about their additions. We need to worry about our own house instead of what the other guy is doing.

I think that this post best represents the point you are making. I was distracted from you're main point when you called everyone homers, but with the explanation that you provide here gives me the best picture of what you mean. I agree that you can't change what happened now and I agree that this rule should be changed. I think that that is the main point that most of us are trying to make.

I don't not respect Selanne for this, Neidermayer a little but not too much, but I do think that it is an unfair scenario, which in turn I agree with you no change to what happened but change should come.

As for a post by i think never forget mac, i agree that a deadline must be imposed. I know that there is a deadline on Restricted Free Agents, but I'm not sure if there is one on UFA's but there should be. I also think that there is a difference between somebody that is injured or playing as a UFA in another league like the AHL that are actively trying to EARN a job than somebody sitting around waiting for one, but making loopholes creates problems so there should be a set date. Same days for UFA's and RFA's...No signing, no playing....

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I think that this post best represents the point you are making. I was distracted from you're main point when you called everyone homers, but with the explanation that you provide here gives me the best picture of what you mean. I agree that you can't change what happened now and I agree that this rule should be changed. I think that that is the main point that most of us are trying to make.

I don't not respect Selanne for this, Neidermayer a little but not too much, but I do think that it is an unfair scenario, which in turn I agree with you no change to what happened but change should come.

As for a post by i think never forget mac, i agree that a deadline must be imposed. I know that there is a deadline on Restricted Free Agents, but I'm not sure if there is one on UFA's but there should be. I also think that there is a difference between somebody that is injured or playing as a UFA in another league like the AHL that are actively trying to EARN a job than somebody sitting around waiting for one, but making loopholes creates problems so there should be a set date. Same days for UFA's and RFA's...No signing, no playing....

Does anyone know if there's a date for UFA's? The trade deadline? I thought there was something in place that doesn't allow you to add new guys up until the playoff puck drops.

Where's eva when you need this s*** figured out?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

There's a world of difference between being pissed about it but admitting the system got worked versus spewing conspiracy theories, questioning the morals and ethics of Niedermayer, Burke, Selanne, etc.... A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

You think if people had simply stated that they don't like this but understand how Burke may have worked the system I would've had any beef to begin with?

Please Mac, give me a break. Check the threads and you can see it for yourself. People making blanket statements such as "I lost respect for Selanne". On what ******* grounds? Explain that! These threads have been filled with many well thought out (sarcasm) accusations and theories with no proof, just accusations.

Very few people came out and said they didn't like it but understood it. Only in the last 2 pages of this thread have people started doing that.

Check the thread when Neids came back and now this stuff with Selanne. People did NOT simply say they were pissed about it but understood it. Go ahead and check for yourself.

I know that, but I don't understand why you get so worked up over it. People don't get it and post stupid things due to ignorance......so what? Not every poster on this board understands all the niceties of the NHL collective bargaining agreement, so why get worked up over those people that are just flat out upset that Burke worked the system phenomenally?

Whether people are throwing out accusations or not, they have just as much a right to discuss them as you do to renounce them. Neither you nor anyone else on this board has any proof that Burke worked this out with Teemu so why squash it as conspiracy theory if you don't know the truth yourself. If you don't know it to be false, what makes your theory more accurate?

Edit: Clarity

Edited January 29, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I didn't say I did not like UFA's coming back whenever they want. I thought I specifically said I have no problem with UFA's as they are beholden to nobody. The only thing about it that pisses me off is that the Ducks got better, nothing bothers me about the actual workings of it. I think its fine. The league already has a drop dead date for stuff like that don't they? A UFA can't sign on the day before the 1st round of the playoffs, right? That being the case there's nothing to be pissed about re: selanne except maybe the Ducks getting better.

As for the bolded part, yeah I get overzealous about stuff like that. But people aren't just being pissed about it. They're spewing conspiracies and such. They did it with Niedermayer and now they're doing it with Teemu. IMO, I think that's lazy, reckless behavior with no proof that tries to impugn the credibility and character of 2 players who've never had their character be put into question before this.

Just to play devils advocate, is it seriously impossible for you to fathom the idea that perhaps Burke and Niedermayer worked this out well before the season started in order to stack their team? I understand you not being upset about Selanne, but Niedermayer is a different situation. Again, while Burke did nothing wrong, this needs to be addressed so the cap hit is accurate. Again, I'm not saying Burke did anything wrong, just saying that this needs to be taken care of this off-season.

[Duck Guy 86]

Does anyone know if there's a date for UFA's? The trade deadline? I thought there was something in place that doesn't allow you to add new guys up until the playoff puck drops.

Where's eva when you need this s*** figured out?

February 26th is the trade deadline and the deadline for teams to sign UFAs

[FUUFNF 1]

I know that, but I don't understand why you get so worked up over it. People don't get it and post stupid things due to ignorance......so what? Not every poster on this board understands all the niceties of the NHL collective bargaining agreement, so why get worked up over those people that are just flat out upset that Burke worked the system phenomenally?

Whether people are throwing out accusations or not, they have just as much a right to discuss them as you do to renounce them. Neither you nor anyone else on this board has any proof that Burke worked this out with Teemu so why squash it as conspiracy theory if you don't know the truth yourself. If you don't know it to be false, what makes your theory more accurate?

Edit: Clarity

because gs&t isn't a "homer" like the vast majority of us red wing fans here on lgw... duh.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I know that, but I don't understand why you get so worked up over it. People don't get it and post stupid things due to ignorance......so what? Not every poster on this board understands all the niceties of the NHL collective bargaining agreement, so why get worked up over those people that are just flat out upset that Burke worked the system phenomenally?

Whether people are throwing out accusations or not, they have just as much a right to discuss them as you do to renounce them. Neither you nor anyone else on this board has any proof that Burke worked this out with Teemu so why squash it as conspiracy theory if you don't know the truth yourself. If you don't know it to be false, what makes your theory more accurate?

Edit: Clarity

Simple, the burden of proof lies with those that would accuse, not those that would defend.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Just to play devils advocate, is it seriously impossible for you to fathom the idea that perhaps Burke and Niedermayer worked this out well before the season started in order to stack their team? I understand you not being upset about Selanne, but Niedermayer is a different situation. Again, while Burke did nothing wrong, this needs to be addressed so the cap hit is accurate. Again, I'm not saying Burke did anything wrong, just saying that this needs to be taken care of this off-season.

I've already stated, I think it was in another thread where Mac Attack posed some different scenarios...anyway, I already stated that it is within the realm of possibility. But without proof I cannot condemn any of them as some have already.

And we've already established we're in 100% agreement that something needs to be done as soon as this season is over.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

because gs&t isn't a "homer" like the vast majority of us red wing fans here on lgw... duh.

ahhhh, more wit and wisdom from my esteemed colleague. where's the other half of that brain of yours...you know, Nick. I didn't think you guys could formulate thoughts without giving each other a rub and a tug

ps: we're all homers here. Only some of us are bringing the average IQ of the forum up while you yourself, well....I don't want to go into details here. You wouldn't grasp it anyway.

CHEERS!

Edited January 29, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[FUUFNF 1]

Simple, the burden of proof lies with those that would accuse, not those that would defend.

maybe in a court of law, but definitely not in public opinion.

like they say... if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it's definitely burke being a douchebag.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

maybe in a court of law, but definitely not in public opinion.

like they say... if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, then it's definitely burke being a douchebag.

Yeah, well we come from different planets I guess. You believe what you want because its convenient for you when things don't go how you think they should. Sheep are like that. Here, let me pull a quarter from behind your ear and dazzle that wicked brain of yours.

[FUUFNF 1]

ahhhh, more wit and wisdom from my esteemed colleague. where's the other half of that brain of yours...you know, Nick. I didn't think you guys could formulate thoughts without giving each other a rub and a tug

ps: we're all homers here. Only some of us are bringing the average IQ of the forum up while you yourself, well....I don't want to go into details here. You wouldn't grasp it anyway.

CHEERS!

ouch!. what a zinger. that'll really teach me to match wits with the likes of gs&t.

i'd be willing to bet, that 99.9% of the members of lgw would agree that you have an overly inflated opinion of yourself. but since you're obviously intellectually superior to us mere mortals... well, i'm sure you can figure out the rest for yourself.

i'd sarcastically say "cheers" too, but i think "go f*** yourself" would be much more appropriate.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I've already stated, I think it was in another thread where Mac Attack posed some different scenarios...anyway, I already stated that it is within the realm of possibility. But without proof I cannot condemn any of them as some have already.

And we've already established we're in 100% agreement that something needs to be done as soon as this season is over.

Then you shouldn't condemn any LGW'ers for their beliefs on the subject.

Sidenote: Those that have condemned without proof aren't worth wasting your breath over because they refuse to look at things objectively.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Then you shouldn't condemn any LGW'ers for their beliefs on the subject.

Sidenote: Those that have condemned without proof aren't worth wasting your breath over because they refuse to look at things objectively.

QFT!

But yeah, I suppose you're right. I am wasting my breath on them.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

ouch!. what a zinger. that'll really teach me to match wits with the likes of gs&t.

i'd be willing to bet, that 99.9% of the members of lgw would agree that you have an overly inflated opinion of yourself. but since you're obviously intellectually superior to us mere mortals... well, i'm sure you can figure out the rest for yourself.

i'd sarcastically say "cheers" too, but i think "go f*** yourself" would be much more appropriate.

99.9%? I call that winning hearts and minds!

I'm not intellectually superior to any mere mortals per say.

I'm just intellectually superior to you you dumb f***!

now, if you want to continue this mr. tons of fun, lets take it to PM's. No need to air out our grievances for the rest of the forum.

shoot me another PM about how great I am and how I'm smarter than you. Those words coming from you just bring a smile to my face. I could listen to you stroking my ego all day long big boy.

[Opie 308]

Here is the problem (GS&T if I misspeak on your behalf please feel free to say so) as I see it:

If a poster runs around spewing incorrect information like, Selanne has no ethics because of this (correct me if I am wrong that is what most are saying), or Forsberg molests children (check the Forsberg thread), they are spreading misinformation and representing it as fact. So others read their posts and as NFM and others have mentioned it is because they do not understand hockey or know the ins and outs. Why is that a big deal, well because these people will not retract what they say, same people who claim Sammy can't pass, Lilja is a waste, Lang is lazy and sucks, so on and so forth.

Then you have people come on here (newbies to the site and the sport) that read these posts and think it is the truth, then they perceive the game, players, management, league, teams in the wrong light.

The only times things get heated is when you try to point out using logic that they are wrong and then suddenly you are a discussion board Nazi!!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Here is the problem (GS&T if I misspeak on your behalf please feel free to say so) as I see it:

If a poster runs around spewing incorrect information like, Selanne has no ethics because of this (correct me if I am wrong that is what most are saying), or Forsberg molests children (check the Forsberg thread), they are spreading misinformation and representing it as fact. So others read their posts and as NFM and others have mentioned it is because they do not understand hockey or know the ins and outs. Why is that a big deal, well because these people will not retract what they say, same people who claim Sammy can't pass, Lilja is a waste, Lang is lazy and sucks, so on and so forth.

Then you have people come on here (newbies to the site and the sport) that read these posts and think it is the truth, then they perceive the game, players, management, league, teams in the wrong light.

The only times things get heated is when you try to point out using logic that they are wrong and then suddenly you are a discussion board Nazi!!

Again, nothing you can do about that. It's a public forum and everyone has a different knowledge base of the game.

Edit: I know you weren't addressing me Opie, but I just wanted to address this. Maybe I shouldn't have since I believe you were asking for GS&T's feelings on the subject.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Opie 308]

Again, nothing you can do about that. It's a public forum and everyone has a different knowledge base of the game.

True, so then I should just sit here and watch people spread pure lies, sorry wrong choice of words, things that they have no way of proving true, thus creating more uninformed fans thus creating more posters who post out of ignorance and create more ignorant fans on this board. Thus making this board nothing more than a large recycling bin for posts and threads.

Why even bother coming onto the board then.

NFM you may or may not have been on here back in the day, I am not going to look up your join date, which could be wrong anyways depending if you joined when it was still Ikonboard software or not.

This board used to be and sometimes still is a great source of information, especially for some one like me who lives in NH or people who live in other parts of the world. Now it is turning into nothing more than the ESPN boards.

Not arguing with you here, however you logic is that they can have their opinion, but I or GS&T cannot express our opinions or known facts to contradict?

If their opinion is that Forsberg is a Molestor (again check the Forsberg thread) I should sit here and not express that they are completely full of Bulls***, but that person is allowed to say whatever they want?

Can you see how I get easily confused with that logic, I know you are mostly talking to GS&T but I dealt with the same s*** when I was the only one defending Sammy in the threads upon threads that trashed him, and it seems like you are just playing peace officer. However don't you see a little irony in the fact you are telling GS&T to keep his opinion to himself because these people are entitled to express their opinion? That is like Military intelligence or Pretty Ugly, oxymorons, at least that is my opinion I welcome yours. (See I used to write we welcome yours, but apparently fewer and fewer of us tolerate opinions.)

Edit to your Edit: No I was talking to everyone, I just didn't want to group GS&T in with me if he didn't agree, that is why I mentioned his name.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Opie

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Here is the problem (GS&T if I misspeak on your behalf please feel free to say so) as I see it:

If a poster runs around spewing incorrect information like, Selanne has no ethics because of this (correct me if I am wrong that is what most are saying), or Forsberg molests children (check the Forsberg thread), they are spreading misinformation and representing it as fact. So others read their posts and as NFM and others have mentioned it is because they do not understand hockey or know the ins and outs. Why is that a big deal, well because these people will not retract what they say, same people who claim Sammy can't pass, Lilja is a waste, Lang is lazy and sucks, so on and so forth.

Then you have people come on here (newbies to the site and the sport) that read these posts and think it is the truth, then they perceive the game, players, management, league, teams in the wrong light.

The only times things get heated is when you try to point out using logic that they are wrong and then suddenly you are a discussion board Nazi!!

Opie, I don't have to pay you for that do I?

You couldn't be more right. As you point out, I think that's what bugs me the most. I think its irresponsible to spread that kind of stuff around here because frankly, there's too many people who latch onto it and IMO it makes LGW look like a board full of know nothing idiot, homers.

I don't have a problem with being attacked by these people. Its just I don't quite understand what they stand for. Are they proud of an inability to be objective? Are they trying to trump Vancouver fanboys as the worst homers in the league? I don't understand why they take more offense to me telling these people off when they should be trying to make LGW a better place to visit.

I found this place awhile back and I joined up because of the quality of posters here. I didn't join up and I don't stick around so I can listen to a bunch of people spew off junk and make the board look ridiculous. I for one like when other fans like still MIGHTY visit the board and inject some insight on the workings of the team they follow. I'd like to see more of that. But who wants to come to LGW if its going to be running rampant with people just bad mouthing every other team and spreading bad info? IMO, we can let the Vancouver boys keep their title.

As NFM said though, I probably should just let it all go as it seems the floodgates are open and no amount of preaching, if you will, on my part is going to stem the flow.

I've had run ins with some of the best posters around here like you, Harold, eva, BB91, NFM, crazy, etc...... and in the end I think I've found some common ground with those folks so I think i've proven I can be as reasonable as the next guy.

Of course I'm not always reasonable but nobody is perfect. (cept me)