Official: Selanne signs with Ducks

[Rivalred 630]

I do not have an issue with a team signing players, but the fact that the players signed 1/2 way through the season to fit under the cap is more than twisting the rules/regulations......

It just shows the true fan of the NHL that there is issues and the front offices need to be cleaned out top to bottom.

[clutchngrab 12]

...

If you're going to attack anyone, attack Neidermayer and Selanne. They took half of the season off.

No, the problem is not with Burke or the players, but a league which allows this crap. Can anyone imagine Gordie, the Rocket - or pretty much any player up til the Bettman era pulling this crap or a league which would allows it? Maybe if the players were paid realistic salaries, they wouldn't have the luxury of f-ing off for the better part of a season.

[clutchngrab 12]

OK - I read the Selanne article on ESPN. He had a kid and was a free agent so he's not a ******-bag like Niedermaier

[Duck Guy 86]

If the NHL changes any rules it should be towards players that are already under contract for the season (Nieds) And it should not matter if the player is a free agent and has no obligations to play the current year (Teemu). Just my opinion. What Nieds did was WAY worse then what teemu did because of the fact that he was still under contract. If you want to point the finger at someone.

Edited January 29, 2008 by Duck Guy

[MacK_Attack 108]

No, the problem is not with Burke or the players, but a league which allows this crap. Can anyone imagine Gordie, the Rocket - or pretty much any player up til the Bettman era pulling this crap or a league which would allows it? Maybe if the players were paid realistic salaries, they wouldn't have the luxury of f-ing off for the better part of a season.

Glenn Hall used to skip training camp every year.

[Opie 308]

Didn't one Michael Jordan leave the sport he was king of, only to realize he sucked at Baseball and came back.

How many athletes in the past 10-15 years have decided to retire only to come back months or a year or two later.

It is a new phenomenon that is sweeping the sports industry, if you will. Because athletes (Cheli for example) are playing longer than ever before and playing at a higher level for longer. When Teemu joined the league the average career was only slightly longer than 10 years.

Do you want to know why it happened that two ducks did this, this year, oh that's right they won the Stanley cup, so they were probably weighing the option of whether to go out on top or not. You don't find it interesting that both players that contemplated retirement also hoisted the cup last year.

Have any of you had to make a tough decision.

These guys all truly believe that if they say they are retired they are not coming back, that may not be the end result, but that is the thought process. And I bet if you go back through the threads some of you that are bitching about the way this went down were also on here clambering for Kenny to get it done!

And as I have said all along this is exactly what the Ducks needed, a Teemu Selanne type player, that is what pisses me off. They didn't trade anything to get either of these two back, and they just added who are now going to be their best players at their respective positions. Not second best forward, or third best defenseman top at both.

But at least I can admit that I am pissed because they just got better, and not hide behind some thinly veiled attempted to be pissed at Bettman and the league or the Ducks and a Conspiracy theory (insert hollywood music here).

Selanne was under contract to no one, and if he had signed with St. Louis to play with his pal Paulie would any of you have been upset. Based on the comments that some of you have made that would have been fine, it is the destination you have a problem with.

Do you really think Burke would jeopardize his career and the team's season for this little experiment. They barely were holding on and struggling badly, if Neids comes back and they still struggle and then Teemu comes back and needs 2 months to get into shape this team misses the playoffs.

I honestly don't think Burke had this planned, and I bet when the Ducks were sucking hind *** he was probably thinking were in the hell are my two star players, I need them.

This conspiracy theory makes me giggle!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Didn't one Michael Jordan leave the sport he was king of, only to realize he sucked at Baseball and came back.

How many athletes in the past 10-15 years have decided to retire only to come back months or a year or two later.

It is a new phenomenon that is sweeping the sports industry, if you will. Because athletes (Cheli for example) are playing longer than ever before and playing at a higher level for longer. When Teemu joined the league the average career was only slightly longer than 10 years.

Do you want to know why it happened that two ducks did this, this year, oh that's right they won the Stanley cup, so they were probably weighing the option of whether to go out on top or not. You don't find it interesting that both players that contemplated retirement also hoisted the cup last year.

Have any of you had to make a tough decision.

These guys all truly believe that if they say they are retired they are not coming back, that may not be the end result, but that is the thought process. And I bet if you go back through the threads some of you that are bitching about the way this went down were also on here clambering for Kenny to get it done!

And as I have said all along this is exactly what the Ducks needed, a Teemu Selanne type player, that is what pisses me off. They didn't trade anything to get either of these two back, and they just added who are now going to be their best players at their respective positions. Not second best forward, or third best defenseman top at both.

But at least I can admit that I am pissed because they just got better, and not hide behind some thinly veiled attempted to be pissed at Bettman and the league or the Ducks and a Conspiracy theory (insert hollywood music here).

Selanne was under contract to no one, and if he had signed with St. Louis to play with his pal Paulie would any of you have been upset. Based on the comments that some of you have made that would have been fine, it is the destination you have a problem with.

Do you really think Burke would jeopardize his career and the team's season for this little experiment. They barely were holding on and struggling badly, if Neids comes back and they still struggle and then Teemu comes back and needs 2 months to get into shape this team misses the playoffs.

I honestly don't think Burke had this planned, and I bet when the Ducks were sucking hind *** he was probably thinking were in the hell are my two star players, I need them.

This conspiracy theory makes me giggle!

:clap: Opie, for every cross word I ever had with you. I just want to give you a big hug right now and apologize. You da man, brother. You da man! Opie, keepin' it real on the LGW.

[shannyfan1414 0]

Now i just hope that they somehow don't even make the playoffs. I know it is unlikely but man would that be great.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Now i just hope that they somehow don't even make the playoffs. I know it is unlikely but man would that be great.

I actually see them as the team giving us the most trouble. That, and the fact they are the defending champs makes me want to play them again in the WCF. I want to beat them so bad that if we didn't play them I'd be bummed. Of course winning the Cup would help ease the pain.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If the NHL changes any rules it should be towards players that are already under contract for the season (Nieds) And it should not matter if the player is a free agent and has no obligations to play the current year (Teemu). Just my opinion. What Nieds did was WAY worse then what teemu did because of the fact that he was still under contract. If you want to point the finger at someone.

The only beef I have with what Teemu did (and I have none for him coming back) is the light salary he came back for. Last season his base salary was $3.75 million which is what he should be making. Prorate that number based on the amount of days left in this season and its something like $1.374 million which I feel the Ducks should be on the hook for (cap-wise). I have no problem with Teemu coming back to the Ducks, but the joke of a salary he took was purely strategic by both him and Burke. IMO, the league could fix this "problem" by requiring players to take the equivelant of the previous season salary or greater.

[Opie 308]

GS&T no matter what the disagreement we have always been able to talk or discuss it with out flaming out at each other.

NFM:

That is the only viable reason to be upset, the man took a wicked pay cut and is playing for well under his fair market value.

But having said that aren't we (deep down inside) hoping Z does the same thing, and didn't Joe Thornton do the same.

Joe T 7.2 for 3 years, the messed up part is that he was only making 6.67 before that.

Just for comparison sake

Ryan Smith 7.2 and 7.5 this year and next. Now I know Smith's salary drops considerably after next season, but if you look at next seasons numbers Smith is paid more than Thornton next year.

Whom would you rather have. Thornton deserves more money than anyone in the league not named Lidstrom, Crosby or Ovechkin

[egroen 384]

That $600k salary is a joke. I would think the players' union would be all over that. Why aren't they?

This guy had 48 goals and 94 points last year. This is more than a "home town discount".

[egroen 384]

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228393&hubname=

So his salary is $1.5 million (cap hit of $600k) with $1.35 million in bonuses if he plays 10 games (which can count towards next year's numbers).

So the Ducks could still sign a player with a salary this year of as much as $6 million at the trade deadline.

Crap.

[VM1138 1,921]

[url="http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228393&hubname="]http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=228393&hubname=[/url]

So his salary is $1.5 million (cap hit of $600k) with $1.35 million in bonuses if he plays 10 games (which can count towards next year's numbers).

So the Ducks could still sign a player with a salary this year of as much as $6 million at the trade deadline.

Crap.

Why is it that a team full of goons gets all the breaks?

[egroen 384]

Yeah, to be honest it is a little overwhelming right now. Imagine if they do pull off a Sundin at the trade deadline?

That first round pick from Edmonton will carry a lot of weight in trade deadline deals.

Edited January 29, 2008 by egroen

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

After the financial terms were disclosed, I remove my objection. $600,000 for Selanne is ridiculous but he'll certainly play 10 games, thus causing his salary (and cap-hit) to be $1.95 million. While it sucks for Wings fans, I really don't have any valid objections.

That being said, atleast Kenny has a clear picture of what he needs to take care of in the next month.

[OsGOD 3]

Is he still going to be #8? 'cause that would rock... my jersey can come out of semi-retirement

[edicius 3,269]

After the financial terms were disclosed, I remove my objection. $600,000 for Selanne is ridiculous but he'll certainly play 10 games, thus causing his salary (and cap-hit) to be $1.95 million. While it sucks for Wings fans, I really don't have any valid objections.

That being said, atleast Kenny has a clear picture of what he needs to take care of in the next month.

But those bonuses will count toward next year's cap and not this year's. It's a ridiculous bonus stipulation (because it's so easily obtainable) and as such, it's bypassing this year's cap limitations. It's all within the system of rules, but using the rules to one's advantage, no matter how underhanded it may look, is exactly the same thing that Burke bitched at Lowe for last year.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The only beef I have with what Teemu did (and I have none for him coming back) is the light salary he came back for. Last season his base salary was $3.75 million which is what he should be making. Prorate that number based on the amount of days left in this season and its something like $1.374 million which I feel the Ducks should be on the hook for (cap-wise). I have no problem with Teemu coming back to the Ducks, but the joke of a salary he took was purely strategic by both him and Burke. IMO, the league could fix this "problem" by requiring players to take the equivelant of the previous season salary or greater.

Wouldn't that be infringing upon the team's and the player's rights to negotiate their own deals?

If you look at Teemu's total salary, is it too far fetched if we consider his age and such?

Remember when we first re signed Chely, wasn't it for less than 1 milion the first time? Seemed pretty cheap back then for what Chely could still do.

I think if anyone has a beef with it it would most likely be the PA as they tend to frown upon lowball contracts. I just don't know if the league stepping in to mandate some type of salary is the right thing to do. The league already controls the cap salary limits. Controlling anything more seems like too much government to me so to speak.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

But those bonuses will count toward next year's cap and not this year's. It's a ridiculous bonus stipulation (because it's so easily obtainable) and as such, it's bypassing this year's cap limitations. It's all within the system of rules, but using the rules to one's advantage, no matter how underhanded it may look, is exactly the same thing that Burke bitched at Lowe for last year.

But odds are Teemu doesn't play next year so there's another million plus towards their cap for next year from a guy who won't be playing from them.

It's just shoving your debt from one season to another. Sure, it helps them now, but those are the rules. We'd do the same thing if we felt it would help the team.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

But those bonuses will count toward next year's cap and not this year's. It's a ridiculous bonus stipulation (because it's so easily obtainable) and as such, it's bypassing this year's cap limitations. It's all within the system of rules, but using the rules to one's advantage, no matter how underhanded it may look, is exactly the same thing that Burke bitched at Lowe for last year.

If they choose them to. If I understand it correctly they can apply those bonuses to this years' cap to max out their alloted $50.3 million and the remaining money will count towards next seasons cap.

Whether they're applied to this years cap or next years, they still need to be accounted for. Granted it makes things easier to continue pushing it out each year given the cap continues to rise.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Wouldn't that be infringing upon the team's and the player's rights to negotiate their own deals?

If you look at Teemu's total salary, is it too far fetched if we consider his age and such?

Remember when we first re signed Chely, wasn't it for less than 1 milion the first time? Seemed pretty cheap back then for what Chely could still do.

I think if anyone has a beef with it it would most likely be the PA as they tend to frown upon lowball contracts. I just don't know if the league stepping in to mandate some type of salary is the right thing to do. The league already controls the cap salary limits. Controlling anything more seems like too much government to me so to speak.

Perhaps, but this would atleast keep teams from making this tactic common place. This is meant with no ill-will, but if you've got a better idea, I'm all ears because I've been racking my brain the past 48 hours thinking of something that the league could do to ensure stuff like this doesn't snowball (which BTW, it will).

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Perhaps, but this would atleast keep teams from making this tactic common place. This is meant with no ill-will, but if you've got a better idea, I'm all ears because I've been racking my brain the past 48 hours thinking of something that the league could do to ensure stuff like this doesn't snowball (which BTW, it will).

Well, in Niedermayer's case I think it's clear. If you are under contract and don't report the team suspends you without pay as the ducks did. And the salary doesn't count. As it shouldn't. Why? Because what's to stop a player from simply not reporting because he wants a new deal? You can't punish the team and put them on the hook for the salary if the player won't report. And there can't be caveats to that. Like you can count the salary if the player is waffling on retirement but you can't if the player simply won't play.

That being said, with a non-reporting, under contract player, I think the league should institute a date of no return. If you're under contract and haven't reported by "x" date, then you're done for the year. The team owes you nothing and better luck next season. Whether you're waffling on retirement or not, you don't make the date, you don't play that year. Of course injured players would get an exemption with the league providing some type of 3rd party medical review to assure there's no funny business going on betwixt the team and player.

As for free agents or any players not under contract with an NHL club. I see no problem with this scenario nor do I have any valid objections to it. If the Wings want to come to Ohio and sign me up to play prior to the trade deadline or whatever the drop dead date is for roster additions, then so be it. Nobody should have a beef with that. If Stevie wants to lace them up tomorrow he should be able to and the team ought to be able to work out whatever salary it wants.

It's funny, people harp and ***** about salaries spiraling out of control but when Selanne signs for what appears to be a pittance, the whole world is up in arms like WTF, he shouldn't be allowed to sign for so little. IMO, a player can sign for as little as he wants and the NHLPA be damned. If I want to work for less money somewhere I sure as hell wouldn't want somebody or some governing body to tell me I can't work for that cheap. It's my life I'll work for as cheap as I want to. In this situation its none of the league's business.

Clearly we have 2 separate types of issues. Those who still have issue with Selanne are merely pissing and moaning cause the Ducks got him. He wasn't under contract and could sign wherever for whatever the hell he wanted to.

But Nieds, I think the league could and should do something to curtail this.

[russianswede919293 95]

GordieSid&Ted all you seem to do is chalk up the anger for these moves to homerism but lets look at the facts....

If the Ducks had brought these guys back from day 1 they would be over cap, or at least at a point with no flexibility. Now lets look at the Wings with Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski and soon to be Z all at HUGE contracts. Now lets assume that Cleary signs for 2.5 million after this year and then at the end of the 2008-2009 season when Zetterberg needs to re-sign they can't fit him under the cap with all these salaries so Lidstrom, doesn't know if he wants to play next season, and sits out despite being under contract, and then lets assume another player was a UFA (I checked no high profile player is but lets assume here), so with Lidstrom sitting out and our assumed UFA Sitting out the Wings re-sign Zetterberg and are safe under cap.

Now the season is halfway done and Lidstrom decides he does want to play and his cap with is now only 3.7 million and the assumed UFA then decides to come back a month later at a low cap hit as well, and for the playoffs the Wings have managed to retain Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski, and the high profile UFA and are now no longer a good team in the playoff hunt but a playoff favorite....

Now as a fan to any other team in the league how would you feel about this....PISSED!!!!!

That is why we are mad here because they went from a team that couldn't afford all of their players under cap, to a playoff contender with no Neidermayer or Selanne, to a team with both those guys, under cap, room for another trade at deadline, and a playoff favorite....

It has nopthing to do with homerism it has to do with s***ty loopholes that should be abolished, same a lamorello getting rid of Mogilny and Malakhov's contracts 2 years ago, its sneaky and kind of bogus,.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Well, in Niedermayer's case I think it's clear. If you are under contract and don't report the team suspends you without pay as the ducks did. And the salary doesn't count. As it shouldn't. Why? Because what's to stop a player from simply not reporting because he wants a new deal? You can't punish the team and put them on the hook for the salary if the player won't report. And there can't be caveats to that. Like you can count the salary if the player is waffling on retirement but you can't if the player simply won't play.

That being said, with a non-reporting, under contract player, I think the league should institute a date of no return. If you're under contract and haven't reported by "x" date, then you're done for the year. The team owes you nothing and better luck next season. Whether you're waffling on retirement or not, you don't make the date, you don't play that year. Of course injured players would get an exemption with the league providing some type of 3rd party medical review to assure there's no funny business going on betwixt the team and player.

As for free agents or any players not under contract with an NHL club. I see no problem with this scenario nor do I have any valid objections to it. If the Wings want to come to Ohio and sign me up to play prior to the trade deadline or whatever the drop dead date is for roster additions, then so be it. Nobody should have a beef with that. If Stevie wants to lace them up tomorrow he should be able to and the team ought to be able to work out whatever salary it wants.

It's funny, people harp and ***** about salaries spiraling out of control but when Selanne signs for what appears to be a pittance, the whole world is up in arms like WTF, he shouldn't be allowed to sign for so little. IMO, a player can sign for as little as he wants and the NHLPA be damned. If I want to work for less money somewhere I sure as hell wouldn't want somebody or some governing body to tell me I can't work for that cheap. It's my life I'll work for as cheap as I want to. In this situation its none of the league's business.

Clearly we have 2 separate types of issues. Those who still have issue with Selanne are merely pissing and moaning cause the Ducks got him. He wasn't under contract and could sign wherever for whatever the hell he wanted to.

But Nieds, I think the league could and should do something to curtail this.

That's why people are upset. It goes both ways GS&T. Let me ask you this, do you think there is a single club that wouldn't sign Selanne right now for that light contract he accepted? The answer is no. What upsets people is had Selanne gone to Free Agency this off season the offers would've been pouring in for well over $4 million per. Instead, he sits and then signs with his former team for a joke of a contract so it won't affect their cap by much of anything. Whether people have sour grapes or not, it doesn't mean it isn't a little unfair to the other 29 teams.

Rather, I think there is something that can be done to rectify this situation. Where I do agree with you on is your idea to put an actual date as to when a contractually obligated player has to proclaim whether he's going to play or sit for the season (thus having the cap hit start on that date). This would help keep all teams in check when it comes to the cap, and I feel you should lump all players into this regardless of whether they have a contract or are UFA's unless they have a third party doctor to deem a player unfit to play. With that, I agree as well with a cut-off date for that as well. Perhaps something like December 1st. That gives players plenty of time to determine whether they are healthy enough to play, and if they can't by that date, better luck next year. The point is that the *cap hit* has to begin earlier than when Teemu's will.