Update On Ze Wings

[Grittzkey 1]

http://thefourthperiod.com/news/det080211.html

"The Red Wings may have lost forward Dan Cleary for the rest of the season, which could make GM Ken Holland more aggressive as the trade deadline inches closer.

However, the Detroit Booth News reports Holland is not going to mortgage the future for short-term fixes and told the paper he's not likely to trade a roster player.

"We're prepared to trade certain assets; if they aren't enough (to get a deal) we're not going to do anything (big)," Holland told the Booth News. "If we can make a trade at the deadline, we will, we've always shown that. (But) there's so many teams in the hunt (so there's fewer sellers and more buyers). In saying that, I expect some players to be moved. It all depends on the price."

The Red Wings are believed to be in the market for such players as Toronto's Mats Sundin, Atlanta's Marian Hossa and Los Angeles' Rob Blake."

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Not new news, but I think the 3 players at the bottom are looking more and more impossible to get. Hossa would be the BEST pickup since he could run the 2nd line and be the sniper on the 2nd PP unit we DESPERATELY need. Blake, I was a big supporter, but the injury and the lack of physicality in the pugilism department makes me want to pass in order to an enforcer on the blueline.

[FinRedWing 172]

We're on a market for Hossa,Sundin & Blake - but we won't give any roster players in return?

We won't be drafting in 1st round for a while then.

[Rice 42]

All TFP does is rehash credible news sources' work. Nothing new here.

If Holland can't land Hossa or Sundin, which is the most likely scenario, I'm betting he goes for a guy who is off the radar that is signed for a few more years.

[Guest Jeremy88]

PLEASE TRADE FRANZEN, HUDLER, AND/OR SAMUELSSON

[Rice 42]

PLEASE TRADE FRANZEN, HUDLER, AND/OR SAMUELSSON

I could understand Samuelsson or Hudler, but why the hell would you want to trade Franzen?

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I could understand Samuelsson or Hudler, but why the hell would you want to trade Franzen?

Because he's a waste of size who's nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner that can easily be replaced.

[Rice 42]

Because he's a waste of size who's nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner that can easily be replaced.

He's also emerging as a great shut-down center with decent offensive potential.

I don't know why you think he can be "easily replaced." You have no idea what the NHL trade climate is like. Holland does.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

He's also emerging as a great shut-down center with decent offensive potential.

I don't know why you think he can be "easily replaced." You have no idea what the NHL trade climate is like. Holland does.

Cory Cross, Uwe Krupp, do I need to mention any more names?

[Rice 42]

Cory Cross, Uwe Krupp, do I need to mention any more names?

Oh, wow. You got me there!

Chris Chelios, Dominik Hasek, Mathieu Schneider.

You're in the armchair with three Bud Lights; Holland's in the front office with three Cup rings (I know he wasn't GM for all of them so don't bother saying it).

Or do you really think you'd be a better GM than Holland?

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Oh, wow. You got me there!

Chris Chelios, Dominik Hasek, Mathieu Schneider.

You're in the armchair with three Bud Lights; Holland's in the front office with three Cup rings (I know he wasn't GM for all of them so don't bother saying it).

Or do you really think you'd be a better GM than Holland?

I could have mentioned more names, I drink scotch not bud lights, and also Hasek wasn't a deadline acquisition. As for the arguments, Holland is a good GM, but don't forget that what I was saying is that Franzen is expendable. What makes you think that Holland won't realize the same thing? He'll trade him away soon enough, unless Franzen starts doing something out there befitting for a top forward, which he isn't, or a physical force, which he sure as hell isn't.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Oh, wow. You got me there!

Chris Chelios, Dominik Hasek, Mathieu Schneider.

You're in the armchair with three Bud Lights; Holland's in the front office with three Cup rings (I know he wasn't GM for all of them so don't bother saying it).

Or do you really think you'd be a better GM than Holland?

Not to butt in, but those 3 were all made in the non cap era. Alot easier to pull off trades like that at a time when prospects and picks arent anywhere remotely as important as they are now cause you're a top spending club. Im not criticizing him for that, just pointing out whats fact. We really havent seen anything in the Cap era as of yet. A useless Cross trade, a lateral Williams/Calder move, and the Bertuzzi/Matthais swap.

Edited February 12, 2008 by Lou_Siffer

[Rice 42]

I could have mentioned more names, I drink scotch not bud lights, and also Hasek wasn't a deadline acquisition. As for the arguments, Holland is a good GM, but don't forget that what I was saying is that Franzen is expendable. What makes you think that Holland won't realize the same thing? He'll trade him away soon enough, unless Franzen starts doing something out there befitting for a top forward, which he isn't, or a physical force, which he sure as hell isn't.

I know Hasek wasn't a deadline acquisition; neither was Krupp. Krupp was signed as a UFA. I was talking about the trade climate in the NHL, not necessarily the trade deadline.

I suppose Franzen is expendable as his particular skill-set is more abundant than, say, Zetterberg's. However, that doesn't mean he's going to be traded. It's important to have talent from within the system and Franzen's on an inexpensive deal.

Where do you get the idea Franzen is supposed to be a "top forward"? His role this year is shut-down center and he's filling it pretty well.

Edited February 12, 2008 by ARice89

[Echolalia 2,961]

How much do you think they want for Hossa?

If we can get him for multiple years, I would be willing to part with quite a bit.

[Heaton 1]

I could have mentioned more names, I drink scotch not bud lights, and also Hasek wasn't a deadline acquisition. As for the arguments, Holland is a good GM, but don't forget that what I was saying is that Franzen is expendable. What makes you think that Holland won't realize the same thing? He'll trade him away soon enough, unless Franzen starts doing something out there befitting for a top forward, which he isn't, or a physical force, which he sure as hell isn't.

Sorry, Franzen is statistically our best shutdown center on the team this season. He's not as expendable as you want him to be. I understand that you have a very narrow minded view on what is needed but completely ignoring how effective Franzen has been this season really shows the flaw in your thinking.

http://redwingscorner.blogspot.com/2008/01...y-ice-time.html

-- The shut-down forward has become Johan Franzen. Opponents average less than 1 goal per 60 minutes of even-strength time with Franzenstein on the ice. (The Red Wings have outscored opponents 15-7 with Franzen out there.) It's not surprising. In Franzen's first season in Detroit, he was clearly the most effective penalty killer among forwards.

Franzen isn't a top 6 forward, but he's just as important as one.

[Rice 42]

Not to butt in, but those 3 were all made in the non cap era. Alot easier to pull off trades like that at a time when prospects and picks arent anywhere near as important as they are and youre a top spending club. Im not criticizing him for that, just pointing out whats fact. We really havent seen anything in the Cap era as of yet. A useless Cross trade, a lateral Williams/Calder move, and the Bertuzzi/Matthais swap.

The Cross trade was useless, yes, but Holland admittedly was trying to pull something bigger off at that deadline and couldn't get anything done due to cap constraints.

The Williams/Calder move was good. Williams was useless and was on the books for another season. Calder wasn't. It saved the Wings cap space for this season.

As for the Bertuzzi trade, I'm sure all the grit slappies were salivating at the deal. Everyone accused Holland of having no balls for not making a trade like that one and he finally did. Matthias then breaks out and Bertuzzi was a bust. Kind of a lose-lose for Holland. If he doesn't acquire the mystical power forward everyone was looking for, he has no balls. Since Bertuzzi was a bust for Detroit and Matthias conveniently broke out the following season, Holland made a bad trade.

[Heaton 1]

Not to butt in, but those 3 were all made in the non cap era. Alot easier to pull off trades like that at a time when prospects and picks arent anywhere remotely as important as they are now cause you're a top spending club. Im not criticizing him for that, just pointing out whats fact. We really havent seen anything in the Cap era as of yet. A useless Cross trade, a lateral Williams/Calder move, and the Bertuzzi/Matthais swap.

The Bertuzzi deal showed how creative Holland is, when looking at the other deals made it's the best "big name" rental trade thats been made yet.

[Grittzkey 1]

PLEASE TRADE FRANZEN, HUDLER, AND/OR SAMUELSSON

Franzen? Meh, He's not my favorite wing, But he's not disposable, Good face/off man, Our Future Holmstrom TBH.

Hudler? Would trade for a couple draft picks. We'd be better without him. Ellis brings more to the table then Hudler does. Sad But True.

Sammy? Offensivly and Defensivly he is well exceeding his contract. If you could find another player like sammy for less then 2m, You'd have a heart attack.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

The Cross trade was useless, yes, but Holland admittedly was trying to pull something bigger off at that deadline and couldn't get anything done due to cap constraints.

The Williams/Calder move was good. Williams was useless and was on the books for another season. Calder wasn't. It saved the Wings cap space for this season.

As for the Bertuzzi trade, I'm sure all the grit slappies were salivating at the deal. Everyone accused Holland of having no balls for not making a trade like that one and he finally did. Matthias then breaks out and Bertuzzi was a bust. Kind of a lose-lose for Holland. If he doesn't acquire the mystical power forward everyone was looking for, he has no balls. Since Bertuzzi was a bust for Detroit and Matthias conveniently broke out the following season, Holland made a bad trade.

Isn't hindsight 20/20 a fair way to judge GM's? I think it is. The Wings have been fortunate to scout well in recent years, but as for pulling off trades, they haven't been that successful, and I don't have any problem saying that the Bertuzzi deal was a mistake.

[Heaton 1]

Isn't hindsight 20/20 a fair way to judge GM's? I think it is. The Wings have been fortunate to scout well in recent years, but as for pulling off trades, they haven't been that successful, and I don't have any problem saying that the Bertuzzi deal was a mistake.

Define successful.

The Bertuzzi deal was necessary, it wasn't a mistake.

[Rice 42]

Isn't hindsight 20/20 a fair way to judge GM's? I think it is. The Wings have been fortunate to scout well in recent years, but as for pulling off trades, they haven't been that successful, and I don't have any problem saying that the Bertuzzi deal was a mistake.

You probably would have called it a mistake if Holland hadn't traded for a "big gritty forward" too.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

The Cross trade was useless, yes, but Holland admittedly was trying to pull something bigger off at that deadline and couldn't get anything done due to cap constraints.

The Williams/Calder move was good. Williams was useless and was on the books for another season. Calder wasn't. It saved the Wings cap space for this season.

As for the Bertuzzi trade, I'm sure all the grit slappies were salivating at the deal. Everyone accused Holland of having no balls for not making a trade like that one and he finally did. Matthias then breaks out and Bertuzzi was a bust. Kind of a lose-lose for Holland. If he doesn't acquire the mystical power forward everyone was looking for, he has no balls. Since Bertuzzi was a bust for Detroit and Matthias conveniently broke out the following season, Holland made a bad trade.

And now we have the room, but he's saying he doesnt want to part with anybody that would have value like Flip, Kindl, or Ericsson... apparently all are untouchable. Whats left after those guys that would get a really good impact guy? I just think if you're going to save all that space, you should do so with the intent of parting with guys like that if you have to. Hey maybe he will, i dont know...we'll see what happens.

Heaton - I'm not sure id really call it creative on Holland's part, he basically just went after the guy that other teams ended up avoiding because of his injury problems...and knowing he might not get to 100% (which he never really did..) The only other team i recall hearing that was even interested at deadline day was Anaheim.

[Rice 42]

And now we have the room, but he's saying he doesnt want to part with anybody that would have value like Flip, Kindl, or Ericsson... apparently all are untouchable. Whats left after those guys that would get a really good impact guy? I just think if you're going to save all that space, you should do so with the intent of parting with guys like that if you have to. Hey maybe he will, i dont know...we'll see what happens.

He also said last year that he wasn't going to make any big moves at the deadline, maybe a minor tweak or two -- and ended up dealing for Calder and Bertuzzi, obviously. He has said recently that if the right deal comes along he'll listen. He's never going to tell the media what players are available and what aren't...and you're right; we're just going to have to wait and see.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

You probably would have called it a mistake if Holland hadn't traded for a "big gritty forward" too.

Not if that big gritty forward happens to be a gimp, which is what Bertuzzi was when we got him.

[redwingslady87 130]

Because he's a waste of size who's nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner that can easily be replaced.

As much as i love all the red wings players, you must be thinking of Kopecky, not Franzen.

Not only did FRANZEN hold off sissy chrissy pronger yesterday before he was jumped by 2 or 3 players from the ducks team, but he also scored. Franzen= staying in detroit.