Update On Ze Wings

[ben_usmc 253]

What's wrong with being a third line player? No team will ever consist entirely of players that belong on the first or second line (Ok, maybe the '02 Wings, but that was essentially a different era and will probably never happen again). Third line players are very important to a team's success, as most teams that win the Cup role four lines consistently. If your argument is that we could get a better third liner than Franzen, then I think that is a legitimate point, although I think Franzen is doing a pretty good job right now. However, your argument made it sound like he should be traded simply because he will never be a first or second liner, which, in my opinion, makes no sense. Many players will never be at that level, but it doesn't mean they are not important or should be traded. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.

nothing at all, but when you compare the idea of a healthy Bert and the chance at a cup and all you have to give up is a projected 3rd liner its not an insane trade on Hollands part. I'm just saying we didn't know we had unfortinalitly

[kylee 727]

Thats just how i feel about Franzen...although, he may be pretty new to the NHL but he's not very young. Isnt he like 28? (my god does typing that make me feel old)

As for the trade proposal....Florida absolutely would have no part of that for Jokinen....even if that prospect was Kindl. Atlanta wouldnt do it either, but they at least wouldnt immediately hang up on you

in my eyes, who are you gonna ship off then?

there's no way i would deal Filppula - although he's been pretty much invisible the last couple of weeks.

whose really left to deal from the roster?

sammy? anyway.....

Kronwall - although injured again, he seems to be making real strides in his overall game this year - he's a keeper to me, especially with Lidstrom not getting any younger

Cleary - im not giving him up - putting up numbers while still a very hard player to defend against because of his grit

and im glad Holland isnt gonna sell the farm. i dont know what to offer to Florida or Atlanta if none of those guys are gonna do the trick.

[mmorland 16]

The rest of the regular season. He'll be back for the playoffs.

[kylee 727]

I have always liked Franzen and think he is progressing every year

Now if only him and Lilja were to take boxing lessons............

in all seriousness though,

dont you think Lilja has become a better stay at home defensemen than just even, mid last year?

something happened last year where he fought a few people and really started to sure up on the defensive side.

but the one glaring thing about lillypads of course are his turnovers up the middle.

so take him for what you will - i actually like him, and id keep him around.

[DRW Dominance 255]

At least Holland knew when to say no to Bertuzzi by not re-signing him. He has been terrible this year and I didn't even realize he was playing on Sunday.

[jim3033 1]

I was listening to Chelios on that Stony and Wojo radio show and he said Bertuzzi and Calder helped out during the playoffs. I thought the Wings made a really good run and the way Anaheim beat us last year was so close you can't be too disapointed. Hell, we beat em' 5-0. It was us or them to win the cup. I thought Holland did a good job. That was probably the best deal he could get.

I thought Lang could have played better. Even with his timely goal at San Jose. He lacked passion a lot.

[Kp-Wings 3]

in my eyes, who are you gonna ship off then?

Nobody. The Wings don't have any assets to give up for Jokinen. The cupboard was already dry down in GR, and it doesn't help that the Griffins blow this year, either.

This is why I was so pissed at Holland last summer, and rightfully so. He should have just used up the 5 million in Cap space on free agents, because it's pretty apparent that he's not going to make a big splash this year. My oh my, how things change in the course 6-8 months.

[kylee 727]

At least Holland knew when to say no to Bertuzzi by not re-signing him. He has been terrible this year and I didn't even realize he was playing on Sunday.

yep, im glad Holland didn't resign him. although when he was traded here, i was supportive of him and being on the team.

but even when he was here, you could tell he was just a shadow of his former self.

here's his line from his season thus far (not exactly power forward dominant, if youd ask me)

GP G A P +/- PIM

46 12 18 30 6 45

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Nobody. The Wings don't have any assets to give up for Jokinen. The cupboard was already dry down in GR, and it doesn't help that the Griffins blow this year, either.

This is why I was so pissed at Holland last summer, and rightfully so. He should have just used up the 5 million in Cap space on free agents, because it's pretty apparent that he's not going to make a big splash this year. My oh my, how things change in the course 6-8 months.

After what Jokinen did yesterday, I'm not too sure that I want him on this team.

[kylee 727]

I thought Lang could have played better. Even with his timely goal at San Jose. He lacked passion a lot.

you know im not exactly a Lang fanatic, although i do like the guy (obviously) but i never really questioned his passion for the game, if you mean how he played here, in his non physical manner, my point would be that Lang never was a phyiscal forward, his style has never been to get in the corners and really fight for a puck, he works the half - boards and is a good passer.

he was the whipping boy here, but last year , putting up 44 points or whatever it was, didnt help either.

[kylee 727]

After what Jokinen did yesterday, I'm not too sure that I want him on this team.

i didnt see anything,

he goon it up?

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

That is what I meant, so you misunderstood my argument.

Cool, sorry about that. I think Franzen is doing alright. I thought he played a very strong game yesterday against Anaheim. Sometimes, though, as you and others have pointed out, he doesn't really seem to do a lot out there. I do think his play has been stronger lately, and he seems to be playing a little bit more physically of late. For some reason, and this is not about his play, I just really like him. Maybe it's his Mule nickname. He seems like he really tries hard out there, even if it doesn't always translate into a great game. There's just something about him I like, and I would be sad to see him go. However, if it would help the team as a whole, then I would be in favor of trading him. But only for the right deal.

[ben_usmc 253]

[/b]

in my eyes, who are you gonna ship off then?

there's no way i would deal Filppula - although he's been pretty much invisible the last couple of weeks.

whose really left to deal from the roster?

sammy? anyway.....

Kronwall - although injured again, he seems to be making real strides in his overall game this year - he's a keeper to me, especially with Lidstrom not getting any younger

Cleary - im not giving him up - putting up numbers while still a very hard player to defend against because of his grit

and im glad Holland isnt gonna sell the farm. i dont know what to offer to Florida or Atlanta if none of those guys are gonna do the trick.

plus our young d is off limits so......... we really don't have much to offer

[kylee 727]

Nobody. The Wings don't have any assets to give up for Jokinen. The cupboard was already dry down in GR, and it doesn't help that the Griffins blow this year, either.

so you think the organization is gonna go on a downturn in the next couple of years?

and,

if you want to stand pat, not making any major moves, you think this team is a cup contender?

[Lou_Siffer 1]

[/b]

in my eyes, who are you gonna ship off then?

there's no way i would deal Filppula - although he's been pretty much invisible the last couple of weeks.

whose really left to deal from the roster?

sammy? anyway.....

Kronwall - although injured again, he seems to be making real strides in his overall game this year - he's a keeper to me, especially with Lidstrom not getting any younger

Cleary - im not giving him up - putting up numbers while still a very hard player to defend against because of his grit

and im glad Holland isnt gonna sell the farm. i dont know what to offer to Florida or Atlanta if none of those guys are gonna do the trick.

Honestly i would be floored if we walked away with Jokinen and or Hossa and still had Flip on the team. I really believe he's a given to go, which is why i strongly believe we wont be players for those guys. For Jokinen, because he's signed...I dont believe theres anything we could even come up with....unless Holland's willing to part with 1st rounders for the next 3 years! Flip/Kindl/prospect...a s***load of picks, i dont think its an option. What we lack is that one standout stud prospect that everybody wants. Hossa wouldnt be as much as Jokinen, but youre still looking at having to outbid other teams. And if Holland is true to his word that Flip/Kindl/Ericsson is untouchable...there is zero chance.

EDIT- had to change that "and" goof to "or" before some smartass got a hold of it

Edited February 12, 2008 by Lou_Siffer

[kylee 727]

Cool, sorry about that. I think Franzen is doing alright. I thought he played a very strong game yesterday against Anaheim. Sometimes, though, as you and others have pointed out, he doesn't really seem to do a lot out there. I do think his play has been stronger lately, and he seems to be playing a little bit more physically of late. For some reason, and this is not about his play, I just really like him. Maybe it's his Mule nickname. He seems like he really tries hard out there, even if it doesn't always translate into a great game. There's just something about him I like, and I would be sad to see him go. However, if it would help the team as a whole, then I would be in favor of trading him. But only for the right deal.

ah yes, it's called the

"Robert Lang Syndrome"

[Guest Crymson]

Because he's a waste of size who's nothing more than a 3rd or 4th liner that can easily be replaced.

He'll be the one called upon to fill Cleary's place.

[Superman54 91]

in all seriousness though,

dont you think Lilja has become a better stay at home defensemen than just even, mid last year?

something happened last year where he fought a few people and really started to sure up on the defensive side.

but the one glaring thing about lillypads of course are his turnovers up the middle.

so take him for what you will - i actually like him, and id keep him around.

No dont get me wrong, I have gained much more respect for Lilja this year

Loved to see him drop the gloves with Phaneuf, standing up for Huds

I just wish he could be one of those intimatiaing fighters thats all

I dont want Lilja gone, I mean he is the biggest guy on our team

[Kp-Wings 3]

so you think the organization is gonna go on a downturn in the next couple of years?

and,

if you want to stand pat, not making any major moves, you think this team is a cup contender?

To answer your questions...

1. Maybe. The Wings time will eventually come, and since I don't see any suitable replacement for Lidstrom in the near future (sorry Kindl, but you're not cutting it right now), this team will be in a dire situation when Lidstrom leaves. Hopefully, he'll stay around for another 5-7 years, while the Wings develop prospects down in GR to take his place.

...and really, none of the Wings forward prospects impress me a whole lot either. I like Cory Emmerton and Zack Torquato in the OHL, but there is nobody else that really stands out. They better hope some of these guys come through.

2. Absolutley not. The Wings may have a good team on paper, but I really don't see this as a playoff team. They have virtually no secondary scoring. Filppula and Samuelsson are horribly inconsistant, and Hudler has decided to kickstart his summer vacation a little early. I know the guy isn't getting any decent minutes, but 0 goals in 10 games is un-acceptable.

Combine that now with two major injuries (Cleary, and who the hell knows if Kronwall will stay healthy), and you're now relying on players like Kopecky and Meech to eat up prime minutes. These guys won't cut it in the playoffs, as their in-expierenced, and really, not very good players.

I hate seeing this stuff like "Wings won't mortgage future" and "Wings won't trade roster player" because that basically means they won't making any trades at all. Who the f*** else is left after that? If he's not going to trade a roster player, yet is also not going to trade any prospects, then what is he going to trade?

Secondary scoring, forward depth, and defensive depth are the major areas of concern, and if Holland doesn't address them, then I am not liking the Wings chances in the playoffs.

[jim3033 1]

you know im not exactly a Lang fanatic, although i do like the guy (obviously) but i never really questioned his passion for the game, if you mean how he played here, in his non physical manner, my point would be that Lang never was a phyiscal forward, his style has never been to get in the corners and really fight for a puck, he works the half - boards and is a good passer.

he was the whipping boy here, but last year , putting up 44 points or whatever it was, didnt help either.

If I remember right, he was really good with penalty kill, faceoffs and a never made many mistakes which is no small feat in the playoffs. I was expecting to see more goals from him though. I guess I associate that with a lack of passion since he scored so many goals when he played in Washington. But probably just the way he played, didn't fit as well in Detroit.

[Rice 42]

If I remember right, he was really good with penalty kill, faceoffs and a never made many mistakes which is no small feat in the playoffs.

You don't remember right.

[kylee 727]

If I remember right, he was really good with penalty kill, faceoffs and a never made many mistakes which is no small feat in the playoffs. I was expecting to see more goals from him though. I guess I associate that with a lack of passion since he scored so many goals when he played in Washington. But probably just the way he played, didn't fit as well in Detroit.

i agree.

its just funny how he got labeled as the scapegoat especially bad the 06-07 season.

not playing related ,

but i cant help but think about one time when Red Wings Weekly went to his house and we discovered that Rex Hudler was living with him like a teenager in his parents basement with some odd colored blanket, and having his kids go wake him up in the morning. - it was great.

[jim3033 1]

not playing related ,

but i cant help but think about one time when Red Wings Weekly went to his house and we discovered that Rex Hudler was living with him like a teenager in his parents basement with some odd colored blanket, and having his kids go wake him up in the morning. - it was great.

That's pretty hilarious. I always thought Lang was really cool. That hair. haha.

[Earthhuman 8]

Please not Hossa... please not Hossa...

He's a great player... that's the problem. We have those. We don't need to get the short side of the stick. Not for one run at the cup.

[HenryMalredo 2]

This is why I was so pissed at Holland last summer, and rightfully so. He should have just used up the 5 million in Cap space on free agents, because it's pretty apparent that he's not going to make a big splash this year. My oh my, how things change in the course 6-8 months.

Like who? Who should Holland have overpaid in the offseason?