Why Fedorov wasn't a Wing

[2probert4 8]

everyone keeps saying how he's not the same player he once was, i feel like that deserves the "no s***" award. yzerman wasn't the same player he was his last couple years, gretzky and lemieux weren't the same, it's obvious. why is that even brought up. someone plays for 18-22 years, of course he's gonna progressively get alittle slower, injured alittle more. bottom line is fedorov can still play at a high level and the caps fans and myself are loving him on that team. he brings more to a team than stats.

i'm sick of the fedorov bashing. waaaaaaaaaaaaah he left the red wings. get over it already. i did a long time ago. i follow him wherever he goes. red wings are still my squad though. ask bruins fans if they hate ray bourque for leaving....um, i doubt it. s*** even wayne gretzky played on 4 teams. players don't stick on the same team forever. be glad yzerman was a wing that long because he was about to be shipped off to ottawa i believe.

can't we just be happy that we won the last game, rafalski is back tonight and lidstrom should return on sunday! that's good news all around.

The Illitch's would have never allowed for that to happen. That for the most part was another head game by Scotty Bowman.

[eva unit zero 271]

Bertuzzi went for Trevor Linden, and Chara was part of the return when the Isles got Yashin. Pretty good for a "crap" player as you say.

Bertuzzi and McCabe went for Linden.

Chara and a top three pick went for Yashin.

You could shave off Bertuzzi and Chara and the deal is slightly in favor of the Isles both times. The fact that Chara and Bertuzzi blossomed after leaving in a manner they didn't seem to be capable of reaching while they were there is what changes the deals from fair to lopsided. And every indication ofr both players on the Isle was that they would be depth players who never developed into elite talents.

Another deal with a similar makeup that turned out different?

Anders Eriksson and two firsts for Chris Chelios. Eriksson was better as a Wing than Chara was as an Islander, was showing signs of getting better, and was younger when dealt. Chelios was on the decline, while Yashin had just been a Hart finalist. That deal could have just as easily been much worse; Imagine if Chelios had not had his renaissance and had retired by 2001, Eriksson had lived up to his potential, and the Hawks had drafted Martin Havlat and Derek Roy with those picks? That's two first liners and a top defenseman for an aging defenseman who wasn't as effective anymore. More than Ottawa got, and for less.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

everyone keeps saying how he's not the same player he once was, i feel like that deserves the "no s***" award. yzerman wasn't the same player he was his last couple years, gretzky and lemieux weren't the same, it's obvious. why is that even brought up. someone plays for 18-22 years, of course he's gonna progressively get alittle slower, injured alittle more. bottom line is fedorov can still play at a high level and the caps fans and myself are loving him on that team. he brings more to a team than stats.

i'm sick of the fedorov bashing. waaaaaaaaaaaaah he left the red wings. get over it already. i did a long time ago. i follow him wherever he goes. red wings are still my squad though. ask bruins fans if they hate ray bourque for leaving....um, i doubt it. s*** even wayne gretzky played on 4 teams. players don't stick on the same team forever. be glad yzerman was a wing that long because he was about to be shipped off to ottawa i believe.

can't we just be happy that we won the last game, rafalski is back tonight and lidstrom should return on sunday! that's good news all around.

Way to downplay everybody's feelings on the matter that don't coincide with yours.

How about this:

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh the Wings didn't re sign Fedorov. Boo hoo for you. Quit yur freaking whining about it and quit freaking starting more Fedorov topics on a ******* Wings board!

I'm just trying to make a point by the way.

[imisssergei 0]

When you said TSN, that explains it all, they still act as if the kids in the NCAA hockey system are all subpar to the players in the Canadian Juniors, which for the most part is true. They still snub their noses at American Hockey though.

They do show some bias, but for the most part they are pretty accurate in their assessments.

[DenJ91 0]

Way to downplay everybody's feelings on the matter that don't coincide with yours.

How about this:

Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh the Wings didn't re sign Fedorov. Boo hoo for you. Quit yur freaking whining about it and quit freaking starting more Fedorov topics on a ******* Wings board!

I'm just trying to make a point by the way.

dude i never said i was that upset about him not coming back to the wings. i follow him anywhere. i'm routing for the caps big time right now in the east. i never "waaaah'd" about it, check your facts and i haven't started any fedorov topics since 2 weeks before the deadline, again make sure you know what your talking about. you and i are clearly on different sides of just about everything invovling fedorov. i consider you my rival like the avalanche!! i'm merely defending him as i always will so get used to it. there were so many feds supporters pre-deadline, now all the haters are back out and the supporters have dissappeared. it's an unfair balance right now so i'm gonna do what i can to represent in the threads. what bothers me the most if when people say he sucks, it's absurd. alright i've said my peace

Edited March 5, 2008 by DenJ91

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

dude i never said i was that upset about him not coming back to the wings. i follow him anywhere. i'm routing for the caps big time right now in the east. i never "waaaah'd" about it, check your facts and i haven't started any fedorov topics since 2 weeks before the deadline, again make sure you know what your talking about. you and i are clearly on different sides of just about everything invovling fedorov. i consider you my rival like the avalanche!! i'm merely defending him as i always will so get used to it. there were so many feds supporters pre-deadline, now all the haters are back out and the supporters have dissappeared. it's an unfair balance right now so i'm gonna do what i can to represent in the threads. what bothers me the most if when people say he sucks, it's absurd. alright i've said my peace

Okay, I guess I need to clarify this for you. I wasn't being literal in the sense that I was claiming you said such and such.

I was merely making a point about how the words you chose were poor in my opinion. People can not want Fedorov back for any reason they so choose and it can include the fact that he left. And it doesn't make their feelings any less valid.

For the record, and you can ask people who support Fedorov here that know me. I have said repeatedly that I don't hold a grudge against him. The biggest beef I have with him comes to the topic of retiring his jersey. The day he signed that offer sheet with Carolina was the day the jersey retirement talk should've ended and never been brought up again. That's just my opinion.

I don't begrudge him leaving and during the trade talks I even said I might be open to him coming back if it cost us next to nothing. Like a 3rd round pick or something.

I didn't want him back for the reasons that others have stated about his play. PERHAPS, he could've aided our secondary scoring. PERHAPS he could've performed in the playoffs. People act like because he did well for us in the past that years later he's still going to be a playoff prescence. That is an opinion that Fedorov supporters try to pawn off as fact.

We needed to get bigger and tougher and Fedorov did not address that, that's the major reason I didn't want him back.

I don't boo the guy and I don't hate on the guy. I only view him as a hockey player and whether or not he can help us. I don't have any bias against him.

You on the other hand I see as extremely biased and therefore I have a tendency to scoff at folks such as yourself as being slappys and homers and too blinded to see the "truth". And you cannot argue that you are biased. You know that you are. That doesn't mean your points aren't valid. It just means you aren't as objective enough IMO for me to believe in what you're saying.

Edited March 5, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[DenJ91 0]

Okay, I guess I need to clarify this for you. I wasn't being literal in the sense that I was claiming you said such and such.

I was merely making a point about how the words you chose were poor in my opinion. People can not want Fedorov back for any reason they so choose and it can include the fact that he left. And it doesn't make their feelings any less valid.

For the record, and you can ask people who support Fedorov here that know me. I have said repeatedly that I don't hold a grudge against him. The biggest beef I have with him comes to the topic of retiring his jersey. The day he signed that offer sheet with Carolina was the day the jersey retirement talk should've ended and never been brought up again. That's just my opinion.

I don't begrudge him leaving and during the trade talks I even said I might be open to him coming back if it cost us next to nothing. Like a 3rd round pick or something.

I didn't want him back for the reasons that others have stated about his play. PERHAPS, he could've aided our secondary scoring. PERHAPS he could've performed in the playoffs. People act like because he did well for us in the past that years later he's still going to be a playoff prescence. That is an opinion that Fedorov supporters try to pawn off as fact.

We needed to get bigger and tougher and Fedorov did not address that, that's the major reason I didn't want him back.

I don't boo the guy and I don't hate on the guy. I only view him as a hockey player and whether or not he can help us. I don't have any bias against him.

You on the other hand I see as extremely biased and therefore I have a tendency to scoff at folks such as yourself as being slappys and homers and too blinded to see the "truth". And you cannot argue that you are biased. You know that you are. That doesn't mean your points aren't valid. It just means you aren't as objective enough IMO for me to believe in what you're saying.

well it's not like i was directing my earlier comments to you anyway, you weren't even in on the discussions yet. it's clear anything that comes up fedorov you go negative and i am positive. of course i'm biased to fedorov. you or anyone else will never hear me diss him. i know he's not the same player from 3/4 seasons ago even, but again that's obvious and "people" bring that up and it's an invalid argument. they just say "oh he sucks, he's washed up, he's all about himself". hardly ever good arguments. if someone wants to say "he's not physical, he's not what the red wings really need" fine, use examples. and even then i'd argue those points. he's been throwing his body around on the caps, he's playing hard to show leadership. does he wanna do that, probably not, he has to be smart about his hitting.

it seems to me like a majority (not all) of the fedorov haters are purely bitter about him leaving and signing the offer sheet from carolina etc, never really giving good arguments for why they don't like him. some people do, fine, i hate alot of players, everyone has their own taste but at least back it up.

if anyone hates fedorov fine, but it really bothers me the general lack of respect he gets for what he's done and acheived over his 13 years in detroit. i hate mario lemieux, i generally am not a fan of wayne gretzky's career, however i respect what they did and who they are. i don't just say "ah they suck, screw them"

i don't even know what i'm trying to say anymore. i should probably concentrate on work right now. haha

oh but your still my lgw.com rival!! we always seem to be against eachother. it's all good though, agree to disagree

Edited March 5, 2008 by DenJ91

[norrisnick 1]

Okay, I guess I need to clarify this for you. I wasn't being literal in the sense that I was claiming you said such and such.

I was merely making a point about how the words you chose were poor in my opinion. People can not want Fedorov back for any reason they so choose and it can include the fact that he left. And it doesn't make their feelings any less valid.

For the record, and you can ask people who support Fedorov here that know me. I have said repeatedly that I don't hold a grudge against him. The biggest beef I have with him comes to the topic of retiring his jersey. The day he signed that offer sheet with Carolina was the day the jersey retirement talk should've ended and never been brought up again. That's just my opinion.

I don't begrudge him leaving and during the trade talks I even said I might be open to him coming back if it cost us next to nothing. Like a 3rd round pick or something.

I didn't want him back for the reasons that others have stated about his play. PERHAPS, he could've aided our secondary scoring. PERHAPS he could've performed in the playoffs. People act like because he did well for us in the past that years later he's still going to be a playoff prescence. That is an opinion that Fedorov supporters try to pawn off as fact.

We needed to get bigger and tougher and Fedorov did not address that, that's the major reason I didn't want him back.

I don't boo the guy and I don't hate on the guy. I only view him as a hockey player and whether or not he can help us. I don't have any bias against him.

You on the other hand I see as extremely biased and therefore I have a tendency to scoff at folks such as yourself as being slappys and homers and too blinded to see the "truth". And you cannot argue that you are biased. You know that you are. That doesn't mean your points aren't valid. It just means you aren't as objective enough IMO for me to believe in what you're saying.

Would you support the Avs retiring Joe Sakic's number?

[DenJ91 0]

Would you support the Avs retiring Joe Sakic's number?

good one bro!!! i'm looking forward to his response now! i'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before when people talk about feds singing with the hurricanes. sakic did the same thing with the rangers a while ago. he stayed, and yes his number should be retired with the av's

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

To make the other team worse, like we did by giving Chicago Jason Williams.

LOL, you think Fedorov would make us a worse team?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

well it's not like i was directing my earlier comments to you anyway, you weren't even in on the discussions yet. it's clear anything that comes up fedorov you go negative and i am positive. of course i'm biased to fedorov. you or anyone else will never hear me diss him. i know he's not the same player from 3/4 seasons ago even, but again that's obvious and "people" bring that up and it's an invalid argument. they just say "oh he sucks, he's washed up, he's all about himself". hardly ever good arguments. if someone wants to say "he's not physical, he's not what the red wings really need" fine, use examples. and even then i'd argue those points. he's been throwing his body around on the caps, he's playing hard to show leadership. does he wanna do that, probably not, he has to be smart about his hitting.

it seems to me like a majority (not all) of the fedorov haters are purely bitter about him leaving and signing the offer sheet from carolina etc, never really giving good arguments for why they don't like him. some people do, fine, i hate alot of players, everyone has their own taste but at least back it up.

if anyone hates fedorov fine, but it really bothers me the general lack of respect he gets for what he's done and acheived over his 13 years in detroit. i hate mario lemieux, i generally am not a fan of wayne gretzky's career, however i respect what they did and who they are. i don't just say "ah they suck, screw them"

i don't even know what i'm trying to say anymore. i should probably concentrate on work right now. haha

oh but your still my lgw.com rival!! we always seem to be against eachother. it's all good though, agree to disagree

You're not quite there yet. You gotta go past WingNutt and BB91 to become one of my archrivals.

As I said, i've used the arguments about the type of player he is now for years and how that's not what we need. But if you knew me better you'd know I the type of guy who wants a more physical, fistic hockey team so Fedorov doesn't fit. I only hold a grudge against him when people want to have his jersey retired. Sorry.

PS: I live in Ohio. I've watched as many BJ's games as anyone on these boards. I'd like you to prove to me how Feds is physical. He's even more of a perimeter player now than he was in his prime.

Jamal Mayers is physical. Sergei Fedorov is not physical.

You are 100% correct though that people who just say he sucks aren't providing very much constructive criticism.

I just don't want him because I think we needed to get bigger and tougher and be able to physically man up to the Ducks. I don't think Feds was gonna help in that department.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Would you support the Avs retiring Joe Sakic's number?

I know where you are going with this and my answer is still yes.

How many franchises has Sakic played for?

Has he spent his entire career in the Nordique/Avalanche sweater?

His accomplishments speak for themselves regardless of anything else. He never left.

[eva unit zero 271]

I know where you are going with this and my answer is still yes.

How many franchises has Sakic played for?

Has he spent his entire career in the Nordique/Avalanche sweater?

His accomplishments speak for themselves regardless of anything else. He never left.

Sakic signed a huge offer sheet with the Rangers. One worth more per year than Fedorov's was. You said Fedorov lost that honor when he signed the offer sheet. It stands to reason that Sakic, who was basically at the same point in his career when he signed, would also lose the honor.

[Opie 308]

good one bro!!! i'm looking forward to his response now! i'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before when people talk about feds singing with the hurricanes. sakic did the same thing with the rangers a while ago. he stayed, and yes his number should be retired with the av's

UMM, I may be an idiot here, but whom else did Sakic ever play for. I don't remember him in a Rags uni, he played for Quebec and then Quebec moved to Col. Those are the sweaters I remember him in.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Sakic signed a huge offer sheet with the Rangers. One worth more per year than Fedorov's was. You said Fedorov lost that honor when he signed the offer sheet. It stands to reason that Sakic, who was basically at the same point in his career when he signed, would also lose the honor.

That's taking this far too literally.

Don't play dumb Eva. You know the circumstances surrounding these 2 players do not end with the offer sheets they signed.

One played his whole career in the same place, the other is now on his 4th team.

Don't insult my intelligence and yours by baiting me with silly comments like this. You know the whole story is much more than just the offer sheet.

I only bring up the offer sheet because people claim Fedorov had so much loyalty to the Wings. No he didn't.

And as far as Sakic is concerned, I can't speak to his loyalty to that organization because I don't follow Sakic or the Aves.

But I know that he never left them and that he is universally loved by the fans. 2 things you cannot say about Sergei.

[eva unit zero 271]

That's taking this far too literally.

Don't play dumb Eva. You know the circumstances surrounding these 2 players do not end with the offer sheets they signed.

One played his whole career in the same place, the other is now on his 4th team.

Don't insult my intelligence and yours by baiting me with silly comments like this. You know the whole story is much more than just the offer sheet.

I only bring up the offer sheet because people claim Fedorov had so much loyalty to the Wings. No he didn't.

And as far as Sakic is concerned, I can't speak to his loyalty to that organization because I don't follow Sakic or the Aves.

But I know that he never left them and that he is universally loved by the fans. 2 things you cannot say about Sergei.

Maybe you should read what you wrote.

The day he signed that offer sheet with Carolina was the day the jersey retirement talk should've ended and never been brought up again. That's just my opinion.

Anything that happened after the offer sheet is irrelevant because according to you, the jersey retirement discussion ended there.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Maybe you should read what you wrote.

Anything that happened after the offer sheet is irrelevant because according to you, the jersey retirement discussion ended there.

I know what I wrote. And we've tread this ground so many times.

The fact that you took that statement as literally as you did is a 2 part problem. 1. I guess I should've extrapolated my argument to include the laundry list of reasons why Sergei jersey retirement talk should cease. That's my bad. And 2. If you're going to be that narrow-minded about what I say, then I think you should go back flooding the forum with statistics as they are much easier to comprehend and there's less room to misconstrue what people say.

But since you want to play this child's game today I will oblige you.

Why we don't talk about Fedorov's jersey being retired and why its OK that Sakic's is despite both signing offer sheets to play with other teams.

1. Sakic never left, Sergei did.

2. Sakic hasn't polarized fans, Sergei has.

Do I need to go any further?

[eva unit zero 271]

I know what I wrote. And we've tread this ground so many times.

The fact that you took that statement as literally as you did is a 2 part problem. 1. I guess I should've extrapolated my argument to include the laundry list of reasons why Sergei jersey retirement talk should cease. That's my bad. And 2. If you're going to be that narrow-minded about what I say, then I think you should go back flooding the forum with statistics as they are much easier to comprehend and there's less room to misconstrue what people say.

But since you want to play this child's game today I will oblige you.

Why we don't talk about Fedorov's jersey being retired and why its OK that Sakic's is despite both signing offer sheets to play with other teams.

1. Sakic never left, Sergei did.

2. Sakic hasn't polarized fans, Sergei has.

Do I need to go any further?

The second is a product of the first, so it's really one reason. And Sergei left because the Wings switched up the offer on him, and took a year off it. Everyone on this board gave Bertuzzi a pass because Holland wasn't willing to pony up the extra year and Anaheim did. Oddly enough, that's the EXACT circumstance that led to Fedorov signing in Anaheim, with one major exception: Fedorov signed in Anaheim for more years, but equal contract value. That suggests that had the Wings offered a 40/5 instead of the 40/4, Fedorov would have stayed in Detroit.

I'm not even arguing Fedorov's number should be retired; I'm simply saying that you said he lost that right in 1998 when he signed an offer sheet, which based on your backtracking and your position on Sakic is NOT how you really feel.

[Opie 308]

I know what I wrote. And we've tread this ground so many times.

The fact that you took that statement as literally as you did is a 2 part problem. 1. I guess I should've extrapolated my argument to include the laundry list of reasons why Sergei jersey retirement talk should cease. That's my bad. And 2. If you're going to be that narrow-minded about what I say, then I think you should go back flooding the forum with statistics as they are much easier to comprehend and there's less room to misconstrue what people say.

But since you want to play this child's game today I will oblige you.

Why we don't talk about Fedorov's jersey being retired and why its OK that Sakic's is despite both signing offer sheets to play with other teams.

1. Sakic never left, Sergei did.

2. Sakic hasn't polarized fans, Sergei has.

Do I need to go any further?

Yeah you forgot to add that Sergei left for less money, even though he forced the Wing's hand with the Car ordeal. They then offered him more money, he stayed. Then his contract is up, Det offers him a new contract and left for ANA when their contract was less money than Det (or same money fewer years I think it was more money, either way it equates to more money).

Sakic has been a C for what 512 years, ok I exaggerate but is was what 18 years with only one year he didn't wear the C!

What Sakic means to the Aves is = to what The Captain meant in Det, What Feds meant to Det is better compared to what Drury meant to the Aves, not Sakic!

Edited March 5, 2008 by Opie

[Doggy 130]

i know he's not the same player from 3/4 seasons ago even, but again that's obvious and "people" bring that up and it's an invalid argument. they just say "oh he sucks, he's washed up, he's all about himself". hardly ever good arguments.

That's a joke, right??

How is it an invalid argument? You don't put players on your roster because of what they used to provide. It's what they can do now that matters.

You don't think anything is a valid argument because it's against Fedorov. If I said, we should sign Lindros and someone rebutted "No. He's washed up and not what he used to be" would THAT be valid in you eyes? Of course it would. Because it's true and it's not Sergei.

You're just too ridiculously biased to make any sense.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The second is a product of the first, so it's really one reason. And Sergei left because the Wings switched up the offer on him, and took a year off it. Everyone on this board gave Bertuzzi a pass because Holland wasn't willing to pony up the extra year and Anaheim did. Oddly enough, that's the EXACT circumstance that led to Fedorov signing in Anaheim, with one major exception: Fedorov signed in Anaheim for more years, but equal contract value. That suggests that had the Wings offered a 40/5 instead of the 40/4, Fedorov would have stayed in Detroit.

I'm not even arguing Fedorov's number should be retired; I'm simply saying that you said he lost that right in 1998 when he signed an offer sheet, which based on your backtracking and your position on Sakic is NOT how you really feel.

I'm not backtracking anything. Look back at any of the Fedorov jersey retirement threads and you'll see me saying the same thing.

I only bring up the Carolina offer because his supporters always throw out how loyal he was to Detroit. Hogwash.

you're an ego hound as much as I am Eva. congratulations. You caught me. You took something I said and made a nice play on it.

Doesn't change reality.

1 left the other didn't.

1 is loved the other is ehh, sort of liked by some and hated by others

I don't care what you do, play dumb all day long if it suits you.

[OsGOD 3]

You're not quite there yet. You gotta go past WingNutt and BB91 to become one of my archrivals.

I am truely offended

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I am truely offended

Don't be Os, I haven't forgotten you or NorrisNick or some other folks around here that I have on my "bestest buds" list. I just wanted dj91 to feel like he only had a mole hill to climb to the top of the charts and not a mountain.

[OsGOD 3]

Don't be Os, I haven't forgotten you or NorrisNick or some other folks around here that I have on my "bestest buds" list. I just wanted dj91 to feel like he only had a mole hill to climb to the top of the charts and not a mountain.

Okay i accept that then *hugs* all around haha

[DenJ91 0]

That's a joke, right??

How is it an invalid argument? You don't put players on your roster because of what they used to provide. It's what they can do now that matters.

You don't think anything is a valid argument because it's against Fedorov. If I said, we should sign Lindros and someone rebutted "No. He's washed up and not what he used to be" would THAT be valid in you eyes? Of course it would. Because it's true and it's not Sergei.

You're just too ridiculously biased to make any sense.

no it's invalid cause that's literally the entire reason, they don't provide any reasons behind why he wouldn't be good back on the wings, just that he's old, he's washed up and doesn't put up pts, which none are true, and the pts would go up had he not be on the worst offensive minded team ever (bluejackets).

and yes i'm biased for the 100th time. sergei can still play, bottom line. he wouldn't be the savoir for the wings to win a cup this year, but he would help for sure whether people will admit it or not.

seacrest....out!