The Hockey News article excerpt

[Konnan511 1,736]

Just a little excerpt from this edition of The Hockey News, Campbell just talks about how creating offense shouldn't be what the NHL should focus on, but instead a host of other things i.e. the inconsistency of penalty calls, illegal goalie equipment, complementing the best defensive forward with a similar trophy for defensemen "best offensive defensmen" award.

Also one of the other things Campbell mentions that the NHL head office need not be concerned with habitual "dirty hit" offenders, but needs to crack down on anybody who delivers a questionable hit. Campbell says this in regards of that last statement, slapping the head office hard in the face, "Nicklas Lidstrom takes a vicious elbow to the head from Ian Laperriere and a league office that supposedly is concerned about headshots sits back and does nothing while one of the greatest defensemen to ever play the game is out of the lineup."

Just thought I'd bring this up, it's a good article and if anyone else gets The Hockey News I recommend reading it, page 12

[Hank 0]

Just a little excerpt from this edition of The Hockey News, Campbell just talks about how creating offense shouldn't be what the NHL should focus on, but instead a host of other things i.e. the inconsistency of penalty calls, illegal goalie equipment, complementing the best defensive forward with a similar trophy for defensemen "best offensive defensmen" award.

Also one of the other things Campbell mentions that the NHL head office need not be concerned with habitual "dirty hit" offenders, but needs to crack down on anybody who delivers a questionable hit. Campbell says this in regards of that last statement, slapping the head office hard in the face, "Nicklas Lidstrom takes a vicious elbow to the head from Ian Laperriere and a league office that supposedly is concerned about headshots sits back and does nothing while one of the greatest defensemen to ever play the game is out of the lineup."

Just thought I'd bring this up, it's a good article and if anyone else gets The Hockey News I recommend reading it, page 12

Thanks for posting this.

I agree with a lot of what he's saying but you're never going to get rid of inconsistent penalties. It's been in the league since the 30's (as researched by Kevin Allen when going through past articles).

Head-hits and goalie equipment are probably the two biggest issues the league faces.

And the last thing this league needs to do is glamorize defense even further. Maybe 5% of the hockey loving public crave 1-0 defensive battles. A great, great majority of people that watch the game or pay for the game want to see more offense.

It's why I don't understand when some people trash the league for not having a better TV deal or partner but then scream bloody murder that low scoring games are crazy exciting.

[dallas27 7]

Maybe 5% of the hockey loving public crave 1-0 defensive battles. A great, great majority of people that watch the game or pay for the game want to see more offense.

I am part of that 5% and I would say it's less than that. NOTHING, NOTHING beats a 1-0 game in the Stanley Cup finals. That has intensity and drama written allllll over it. You are on the edge of your seat all game.

[Hank 0]

I am part of that 5% and I would say it's less than that. NOTHING, NOTHING beats a 1-0 game in the Stanley Cup finals. That has intensity and drama written allllll over it. You are on the edge of your seat all game.

Playoffs are one thing but when you get 5 goose-eggs in one night during the regular season, something is wrong.

[dallas27 7]

Playoffs are one thing but when you get 5 goose-eggs in one night during the regular season, something is wrong.

True, but don't discredit goalies. Sometimes they have a say on what the score is.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Thanks for posting this.

I agree with a lot of what he's saying but you're never going to get rid of inconsistent penalties. It's been in the league since the 30's (as researched by Kevin Allen when going through past articles).

Head-hits and goalie equipment are probably the two biggest issues the league faces.

And the last thing this league needs to do is glamorize defense even further. Maybe 5% of the hockey loving public crave 1-0 defensive battles. A great, great majority of people that watch the game or pay for the game want to see more offense.

It's why I don't understand when some people trash the league for not having a better TV deal or partner but then scream bloody murder that low scoring games are crazy exciting.

It's my opinion that without the contract of a major tv station (such as one of the national networks, or *sigh* espn) that the NHL needs more goals. Which of course leads to goalie pad reduction (or one of several other mentioned alternatives). I personally love a 1-0 game, last nights devils/ducks game was fun to watch. The problem is, how many highlights do you get out of a game like that (the answer is 2, the goal and the injury). Every highlight reel of last nights games I saw basically threw the ducks/aves game on at the end. Without a major station hyping games with programs like NHL tonight, the NHL needs highlights, and goals = highlights.

[Hank 0]

True, but don't discredit goalies. Sometimes they have a say on what the score is.

I have no problems with that. As long as the saves are made through skill, not extra padding.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

As great as a 1-0 game is, I would rather see more 8-6 games.

As far as the OP, I think that goalie equipment is a concern since it is one of the things being taken advantage of that is affecting the game. But blown calls, and cheap shots should also be addressed.

Also, the quote about "best defenseman to ever play" sounds good to me. Lappy should have been given a game and fine for a head shot.

[dallas27 7]

I have no problems with that. As long as the saves are made through skill, not extra padding.

Because that's what all NHL goalies rely on, extra padding. All NHL goalies should be in the beer leagues right now because it's the equipment that is making the saves. Here we go.

I love how people single out Giguere and claim that he is the only reason why pads should be changed. Just discount the fact that he is a big boy, quick and is always in position. But it's just the pads, you are right.

[Turkey 0]

Low scoring games have never bothered me. I just want to see a good contest.

[auxlepli 17]

Yet another voice who says Laperriere's hit on Lidstrom was dirty. Doesn't necessarily make him right just because I agree him, but it's interesting comment nonetheless.

[Hank 0]

Because that's what all NHL goalies rely on, extra padding. All NHL goalies should be in the beer leagues right now because it's the equipment that is making the saves. Here we go.

I love how people single out Giguere and claim that he is the only reason why pads should be changed. Just discount the fact that he is a big boy, quick and is always in position. But it's just the pads, you are right.

I've heard a lot of words used to describe Giggy but 'quick' has never been one of them. He is basically a table-hockey goalie; no glove, no blocker and moves east and west.

When is the last time you or anyone else saw him make a desperation save? It doesn't happen, because he has no athleticism. And Giggy said so himself in last years playoffs.

Yes, the goalies are very good. But you can't tell me that in each game there aren't at least 2 'saves' that occured with the goalie not even moving and the puck hits a peice of equipment that stretches way too far from the players skin and bones. There have been 2-1 games that should have been 5-4 but the puck manages to hit one of the goalies mud flaps above their shoulders or a peice of the XXXXL pants that a goalie with a 30" waist wears.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Just a little excerpt from this edition of The Hockey News, Campbell just talks about how creating offense shouldn't be what the NHL should focus on, but instead a host of other things i.e. the inconsistency of penalty calls, illegal goalie equipment, complementing the best defensive forward with a similar trophy for defensemen "best offensive defensmen" award.

Also one of the other things Campbell mentions that the NHL head office need not be concerned with habitual "dirty hit" offenders, but needs to crack down on anybody who delivers a questionable hit. Campbell says this in regards of that last statement, slapping the head office hard in the face, "Nicklas Lidstrom takes a vicious elbow to the head from Ian Laperriere and a league office that supposedly is concerned about headshots sits back and does nothing while one of the greatest defensemen to ever play the game is out of the lineup."

Just thought I'd bring this up, it's a good article and if anyone else gets The Hockey News I recommend reading it, page 12

The amount of scoring, or lack thereof whenever it happens, rarely bothers me. I don't signficantly feel that much more positive seeing a 5-4 game vs. a 2-1 or 1-0 game.

As stated, inconsistent penalty calling will always be with us. Referees are human, they make mistakes just like you and me. There are bound to be errors from time to time. In extreme cases though, you review stuff/goals like what has happened recently in 2 Wings loses where referees played a major contribution in Wings losses.

The "illegal" goalie equipment complaining is getting tiring. Does equipment help? Sure, but it isn't just the equipment that makes the save. If Giguere or Luongo is wearing illegal equipment, higher ups will deal with them. If they are playing within the rules as they are stated, what's the problem? If it is that big of a deal, tweak the rules in the offseason.

Get rid of the damned instigator rule for "questionable hits". You might see more fights, but that will yield to more accountability and a good chance of a reduction of cross checks to the face or whatever else.

[HomeNugget 2]

The amount of scoring, or lack thereof whenever it happens, rarely bothers me. I don't signficantly feel that much more positive seeing a 5-4 game vs. a 2-1 or 1-0 game.

As stated, inconsistent penalty calling will always be with us. Referees are human, they make mistakes just like you and me. There are bound to be errors from time to time. In extreme cases though, you review stuff/goals like what has happened recently in 2 Wings loses where referees played a major contribution in Wings losses.

The "illegal" goalie equipment complaining is getting tiring. Does equipment help? Sure, but it isn't just the equipment that makes the save. If Giguere or Luongo is wearing illegal equipment, higher ups will deal with them. If they are playing within the rules as they are stated, what's the problem? If it is that big of a deal, tweak the rules in the offseason.

Get rid of the damned instigator rule for "questionable hits". You might see more fights, but that will yield to more accountability and a good chance of a reduction of cross checks to the face or whatever else.

or instead of eliminating the instigator rule just change it so the person who really instigates the fight gets the extra 2. like the hit on lidstrom. downey and laperrière each get 5 for fighting and laperrière gets 2 for instigating.

[dallas27 7]

I've heard a lot of words used to describe Giggy but 'quick' has never been one of them. He is basically a table-hockey goalie; no glove, no blocker and moves east and west.

When is the last time you or anyone else saw him make a desperation save? It doesn't happen, because he has no athleticism. And Giggy said so himself in last years playoffs.

He is a positional goaltender, one of the best in the NHL, more times than not he doesn't have to make a desperation save.

Yes, the goalies are very good. But you can't tell me that in each game there aren't at least 2 'saves' that occured with the goalie not even moving and the puck hits a peice of equipment that stretches way too far from the players skin and bones. There have been 2-1 games that should have been 5-4 but the puck manages to hit one of the goalies mud flaps above their shoulders or a peice of the XXXXL pants that a goalie with a 30" waist wears.

I don't buy this. Goalies in the NHL, assuming they can see the shot, are going to be in position to make a save. And as SWF said who cares if it's 2-1 or 5-4. Saying that there has to be more scoring is a sell out in my book. But I guess that is what it boils down to nowadays, putting people in the seats.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I'd just like to pint out I didn't start this thred to have a debate of which types of games are more enjoyable or which goalies take advantage of max equipment sizes, but rather to address that there are other things to talk about besides "the lack of scoring" in the NHL, such as the league not cracking down on "dirty hits" by players who don't have a dark past of them, or even cracking down on the hits to the head at all as we've seen in a few Red Wings' games the past month i.e. Lids and Koppy getting his brain mashed. As Campbell also stats in his article, even if you do try to increase scoring, teams will adapt i.e. when the NHL removed two line passing, teams now stack their defense on the blue lines to prevent the hail mary passes. Campbell also adds that "we", the NHL, can reduce goalie equipment all that want, and make the nets larger, but it probably won't even increase the scoring, he mentions that if these things happen, players will block more shots and teams will look into larger goalies.

So my point is, the reason I started this thread was not to bash on certain goalies, or specific hits, but to point out that there are other thigns to talk about besides reducing goalie equipment when talking about how to better the NHL.

[auxlepli 17]

So my point is, the reason I started this thread was not to bash on certain goalies, or specific hits, but to point out that there are other thigns to talk about besides reducing goalie equipment when talking about how to better the NHL.

Then why not just post something like, "Other issues with the NHL," and just quote the dirty hits part? Why even bring up or quote the the goalie equipment issue in this thread when there's already another goalie equipment thread? That other part could've been quoted in the goalie equipment thread.

There are many issues that are brought up from time to time, but when there currently another thread on goalie equipment I don't understand why it's not added there. That's why my first response had nothing to say about the goalies, because we were discussing it elsewhere.

[Hank 0]

He is a positional goaltender, one of the best in the NHL, more times than not he doesn't have to make a desperation save.

Broduer and Luongo (only 2 examples) also have excellent positioning. But there are times every goalie in the league is scored on when the opposing team makes a perfect east-west pass, that the goalie isn't expected to stop. But in those cases, both Broduer and Luongo have the athletic ability to dive across and stop goals they had no business stopping. It's in those instances that Giggy is useless. Remember last years goal that Franzen scored when he took a picture-perfect pass from Sammy out of the corner? Giggy simply turned his body and watched it go in. He didn't dive or go down. He didn't do a freakin' thing. I've seen that same goal happen on many other goalies but in almost every case the tender will make an attempt. Not Giggy. It's because he has not quickness or athletic ability to do so. And with all that bulky gear, he couldn't if he wanted to.

And regarding more scoring, I'll agree that in today's NHL if a game is 5-4 or 2-1 it really doesn't make that much difference as every goal is scored the same. Most are done on the PP (which are boring goals to begin with) but even then most goals are scored the exact same way - rebound, deflection, screen.

My whole issue with the problem of scoring is that there aren't enough scoring areas. Like you said Dallas27, if a goalie sees it, he stops it. That's been the case for only the past 10 years. There was a time (for nearly 80 years) when you could beat a goalie clean. Defenses and inflated goalies (as well as increase in their skill) have killed this type of goal.

I'm just tired of seeing the same goal every single game. No more beautiful 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 goals. I used to love watching Stevie snap a shortside goal to the top shelf from 10 feet out. Wendel Clark was a beauty to watch in this regard too. But when you face goalies who prop up their shoulder pads with cardboard flaps, those types of goals have all been eliminated.

[The Secret 304]

I have to agree with Hank. Goalies are way to big with equipment then ever before. Remember watching Fuhr doing cartwheels for Edmonton back in the day? Not to take away on the skills of goalies today but come on... pads are for protection, the goalies are for making the saves. Now comes the arguement about the players being bigger and shooting harder so the goalies need all the padding they can get... I say B.S. tell that to the cop who wears a vest under his uniform that stops bullets. Goalie's gear HAS to be "brought back down to size". Have you seen Giggy without equipment? Sure he's tall but he built like Olive Oil! Kipper in Calgary is a goalie that is usually fun to watch because he is athletic and makes some saves that require more then just being in position.

I also am one who respects the defensive play of teams but much prefer to watch the excitment of a high powered offence over a smothering D. UFC was becoming boring to most because it was there was more and more grappling, which is boring compared to to guys slugging it out, because of the lack of action. Now they have made rules to cut down what was boring and make it more exciting for all.

[Firehawk 305]

Low scoring games in the playoffs do not bother me. Low scoring games in the regular season bother the hell out of me.

And I will echo what someone said earlier about the goalies...goalies making the great saves to keep scores down is awesome. Goalies making saves with their extra padding to keep scores down, something needs to be done about that.

[joshy207 156]

Fuhr was so acrobatic in net because he had to be... goalies in those days were absolutely horrible positionally and didn't get their whole bodies in front of the puck. Watch clips of old games, 1960s-1980s, and see how the goalies stopped the puck--they'd throw an arm, stick, or leg out and *hope* to stop the puck. Today, goaltending is no longer an art form, it's a science. The position has been broken down and analyzed so much, like hitting and pitching in baseball, that goalies make tiny little mechanical adjustments to improve their play. Goaltending now is at its all-time best. There are goalies now that are stuck in the ECHL, can't even make the AHL, that would have been stars in the NHL 30 years ago. You want to legislate an increase in scoring? Make goalies stay on their feet, like they had to do 90 years ago.

All that said, goalies' pads today are too big. The supposed "crackdown" on equipment size a few years back wasn't nearly enough. Each goalie should be measured individually and then told what size equipment he can wear. Pad length right now is capped at 38"... so 5'9" Manny Legace can wear pads that are 6" too long for him? Nice effective rule. The rule should limit pads to a specific height above the kneecap. Same for pant size and chest/arm pad size.

[Hank 0]

Fuhr was so acrobatic in net because he had to be... goalies in those days were absolutely horrible positionally and didn't get their whole bodies in front of the puck. Watch clips of old games, 1960s-1980s, and see how the goalies stopped the puck--they'd throw an arm, stick, or leg out and *hope* to stop the puck. Today, goaltending is no longer an art form, it's a science. The position has been broken down and analyzed so much, like hitting and pitching in baseball, that goalies make tiny little mechanical adjustments to improve their play. Goaltending now is at its all-time best. There are goalies now that are stuck in the ECHL, can't even make the AHL, that would have been stars in the NHL 30 years ago. You want to legislate an increase in scoring? Make goalies stay on their feet, like they had to do 90 years ago.

All that said, goalies' pads today are too big. The supposed "crackdown" on equipment size a few years back wasn't nearly enough. Each goalie should be measured individually and then told what size equipment he can wear. Pad length right now is capped at 38"... so 5'9" Manny Legace can wear pads that are 6" too long for him? Nice effective rule. The rule should limit pads to a specific height above the kneecap. Same for pant size and chest/arm pad size.

That's precicely what goalies like Brodeur, Turco, Roy, Dryden and others want to happen.

And as far as I'm concerned, if the above goalies think there's an issue with equipment size then there is. No matter how many beer league goalies we have here, who defend the size of the gear, I will always, always take the word of an NHL goalie (especially a Hall of Fame member) over that of someone who posted a 2.31 GAA for Home Hardware in peewee house league hockey.

The equipments too big. Stop denying it so you can pad your stats in your Monday night beer league against overweight has-beens.

[The Secret 304]

Fuhr was so acrobatic in net because he had to be... goalies in those days were absolutely horrible positionally and didn't get their whole bodies in front of the puck. Watch clips of old games, 1960s-1980s, and see how the goalies stopped the puck--they'd throw an arm, stick, or leg out and *hope* to stop the puck. Today, goaltending is no longer an art form, it's a science. The position has been broken down and analyzed so much, like hitting and pitching in baseball, that goalies make tiny little mechanical adjustments to improve their play. Goaltending now is at its all-time best. There are goalies now that are stuck in the ECHL, can't even make the AHL, that would have been stars in the NHL 30 years ago. You want to legislate an increase in scoring? Make goalies stay on their feet, like they had to do 90 years ago.

All that said, goalies' pads today are too big. The supposed "crackdown" on equipment size a few years back wasn't nearly enough. Each goalie should be measured individually and then told what size equipment he can wear. Pad length right now is capped at 38"... so 5'9" Manny Legace can wear pads that are 6" too long for him? Nice effective rule. The rule should limit pads to a specific height above the kneecap. Same for pant size and chest/arm pad size.

I agree with you, the game has changed drastically and so has the way each position is played and studied! More science then art is right! I prefer the days of old, it was much more fun to watch for many many reasons! The goalies were each very unique in style and play... remember Grant Fuhr, Billy Smith, Ron Hextall, Pelle Lindburgh (My all time fav!!!). Now they all look and play too much alike, pretty boring in comparison.

Regardless, the equipment should definately be sized to the player to start!