Pavel Datsyuk for the Selke

[dicksmack 33]

Nobody comes close to Datsyuk in stick-checking ability. Everyone knows that. If there's a battle for the puck in the corner, Datsyuk comes up with the puck 8 or 9 times out of ten. Zetterberg comes close but he's not as good. If plus/minus is a stat affected primarily by one's linemates, then Datsyuk was better than Zetterberg. I said Datsyuk was a lock early on. I could see

that there wasn't an argument for Z relative to Pavel. A lot of the "shut down" guys were injured or didn't have good years, so I could see that it would likely go to an offensive guy a la Gilmour or Fedorov. People were ridiculed for saying Datysuk could do what Feds did and win a Selke. It's relative, obviously, to one's competition that particular year. For me, it came down to Madden and Datsyuk. Madden had a good year, but Datsyuk's numbers looked a lot like Feds'/Gilmour's when they won the Selke. Datsyuk can do anything Madden can do and do it better. You can't say the reverse and the reason the roles are different, is because Datsyuk is our leading scorer in the reg. season the past few years. You can't waste a guy's offensive side on being a shut down guy, but if you were nuts enough to do so, Datysuk would be better than Madden at it.

I think the crazy takeaways stat swayed a lot of voters for the Selke. It should have. Extracting the puck from an attacking player is so effective because you can, if you also happen to have the best stickhandling ability in the NHL, dangle your way out of danger and clear the zone or waste more time off the clock or GOD FORBID , counterattack and turn those attackers instantly into defenders. In addition to takeaways, it was his uncanny ability to win puck battles all over the ice. Datsyuk almost always comes out of the corners with the puck, whether he's outnumbered, battling a larger opponent or whatever. He's extremely solid physically, has great balance and he knocks guys on their asses. Sure he gets knocked on his can now and again, but that's cuz he's not afraid to go to the difficult areas and he's is only 5'10. Pound for pound, he's as solid as they come.

We all know he's one of, and probably the best one-on-one in the NHL, (ie stickhandling) and his stickchecking (ie takeaways)is clearly the best.

So... (drumroll) he's got the best hands in the game and it's not even close. That skill can be employed both ways. Datysuk was almost always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored.

For you guys to say he doesn't deserve it is laughable and to the someone (eva) who said he shouldn't even have been nominated it shows your lack of understanding. Datysuk was always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored. I think it was the dismissive nature of the attitude here that irked some people. Nobody gave him a chance and he won. Realize it or not, you've been humbled on this one...

Don't worry Datsyuk underestimators, keep watching and perhaps you'll catch on...

[eva unit zero 271]

Nobody comes close to Datsyuk in stick-checking ability. Everyone knows that. If there's a battle for the puck in the corner, Datsyuk comes up with the puck 8 or 9 times out of ten. Zetterberg comes close but he's not as good. If plus/minus is a stat affected primarily by one's linemates, then Datsyuk was better than Zetterberg. I said Datsyuk was a lock early on. I could see

that there wasn't an argument for Z relative to Pavel. A lot of the "shut down" guys were injured or didn't have good years, so I could see that it would likely go to an offensive guy a la Gilmour or Fedorov. People were ridiculed for saying Datysuk could do what Feds did and win a Selke. It's relative, obviously, to one's competition that particular year. For me, it came down to Madden and Datsyuk. Madden had a good year, but Datsyuk's numbers looked a lot like Feds'/Gilmour's when they won the Selke. Datsyuk can do anything Madden can do and do it better. You can't say the reverse and the reason the roles are different, is because Datsyuk is our leading scorer in the reg. season the past few years. You can't waste a guy's offensive side on being a shut down guy, but if you were nuts enough to do so, Datysuk would be better than Madden at it.

I think the crazy takeaways stat swayed a lot of voters for the Selke. It should have. Extracting the puck from an attacking player is so effective because you can, if you also happen to have the best stickhandling ability in the NHL, dangle your way out of danger and clear the zone or waste more time off the clock or GOD FORBID , counterattack and turn those attackers instantly into defenders. In addition to takeaways, it was his uncanny ability to win puck battles all over the ice. Datsyuk almost always comes out of the corners with the puck, whether he's outnumbered, battling a larger opponent or whatever. He's extremely solid physically, has great balance and he knocks guys on their asses. Sure he gets knocked on his can now and again, but that's cuz he's not afraid to go to the difficult areas and he's is only 5'10. Pound for pound, he's as solid as they come.

We all know he's one of, and probably the best one-on-one in the NHL, (ie stickhandling) and his stickchecking (ie takeaways)is clearly the best.

So... (drumroll) he's got the best hands in the game and it's not even close. That skill can be employed both ways. Datysuk was almost always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored.

For you guys to say he doesn't deserve it is laughable and to the someone (eva) who said he shouldn't even have been nominated it shows your lack of understanding. Datysuk was always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored. I think it was the dismissive nature of the attitude here that irked some people. Nobody gave him a chance and he won. Realize it or not, you've been humbled on this one...

Don't worry Datsyuk underestimators, keep watching and perhaps you'll catch on...

I didn't expect Datsyuk to win it, and I was surprised he was nominated. this is more due to the fact that he carried a reputation as an average defensive player into the season, so some voters were likely to not vote for him.

But my rating of him as not the best defensive forward? That comes from watching games. I see Datsyuk as one of the better defensive forwards in the league. But he has never once made me say 'wow, he's good defensively' the way Zetterberg does almost every game. No, I am not talking about the 5-on-3. I am talking about his defensive positioning and awareness; he is able to read the play and position himself to take away the passing lane before the puck is even to the passer. Datsyuk is much more reactive on defense; in this regard he follows the play rather than anticipating and preventing the way Z does.

Watch how well Z performed defensively in the first period of Game 4 vs Dallas; there are some good examples of what I am talking about.

takeaways is a good stat to lead...but it's not a definitive indicator of defensive play.

[stud_defenseman 1]

regardless of whether datsyuk was deserving or not, we have the two best 2-way players in the league...well, maybe even 3 if you count Lidstrom

we rock.

Edited June 15, 2008 by stud_defenseman

[Misty Belle 0]

this is more due to the fact that he carried a reputation as an average defensive player into the season, .................................

But my rating of him as not the best defensive forward? That comes from watching games. ................. Datsyuk is much more reactive on defense; in this regard he follows the play rather than anticipating and preventing the way Z does..................

you're kidding right? average defensive player since when? he's always been responsible defensively, even back when everyone was critisizing him early in this decade for "not preforming in the playoffs" if you knew anything about the typical russian (sorry to bring that word up) system you'd know that the center is always responsible for being the first forward back , even when the Wings were playing the left wing lock system (a Czech system) the only line that had the center back first was Igor Larionov's line because he wanted to keep playing like that as he was used to that system and was good at it.

nobody sees the ice better than Datsyuk, sorry he's not Swedish but that's just the case.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

you're kidding right? average defensive player since when?

eva likes to make up his own facts. Excuse him.

For the record, I've considered Zeta an elite player for years now and I think he's a better defender than Dats. However, I have no problem with Pavel winning it. Defensive positioning? No forward reads the backcheck better than Dats.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

eva likes to make up his own facts. Excuse him.

For the record, I've considered Zeta an elite player for years now and I think he's a better defender than Dats. However, I have no problem with Pavel winning it. Defensive positioning? No forward reads the backcheck better than Dats.

The word for excusing him is "pedant"

Dicksmack, you rock. All the supposed keyboard experts could learn something here, but you have to open your brain to the idea of learning vs. constantly spouting BS.

You want to see an average defensive forward? Sidney, Malkin... the Penns were full of them. No thanks.

[Kira 451]

Nobody comes close to Datsyuk in stick-checking ability. Everyone knows that. If there's a battle for the puck in the corner, Datsyuk comes up with the puck 8 or 9 times out of ten. Zetterberg comes close but he's not as good. If plus/minus is a stat affected primarily by one's linemates, then Datsyuk was better than Zetterberg. I said Datsyuk was a lock early on. I could see

that there wasn't an argument for Z relative to Pavel. A lot of the "shut down" guys were injured or didn't have good years, so I could see that it would likely go to an offensive guy a la Gilmour or Fedorov. People were ridiculed for saying Datysuk could do what Feds did and win a Selke. It's relative, obviously, to one's competition that particular year. For me, it came down to Madden and Datsyuk. Madden had a good year, but Datsyuk's numbers looked a lot like Feds'/Gilmour's when they won the Selke. Datsyuk can do anything Madden can do and do it better. You can't say the reverse and the reason the roles are different, is because Datsyuk is our leading scorer in the reg. season the past few years. You can't waste a guy's offensive side on being a shut down guy, but if you were nuts enough to do so, Datysuk would be better than Madden at it.

I think the crazy takeaways stat swayed a lot of voters for the Selke. It should have. Extracting the puck from an attacking player is so effective because you can, if you also happen to have the best stickhandling ability in the NHL, dangle your way out of danger and clear the zone or waste more time off the clock or GOD FORBID , counterattack and turn those attackers instantly into defenders. In addition to takeaways, it was his uncanny ability to win puck battles all over the ice. Datsyuk almost always comes out of the corners with the puck, whether he's outnumbered, battling a larger opponent or whatever. He's extremely solid physically, has great balance and he knocks guys on their asses. Sure he gets knocked on his can now and again, but that's cuz he's not afraid to go to the difficult areas and he's is only 5'10. Pound for pound, he's as solid as they come.

We all know he's one of, and probably the best one-on-one in the NHL, (ie stickhandling) and his stickchecking (ie takeaways)is clearly the best.

So... (drumroll) he's got the best hands in the game and it's not even close. That skill can be employed both ways. Datysuk was almost always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored.

For you guys to say he doesn't deserve it is laughable and to the someone (eva) who said he shouldn't even have been nominated it shows your lack of understanding. Datysuk was always the first guy on the backcheck all year and prevented way more goals than he scored. I think it was the dismissive nature of the attitude here that irked some people. Nobody gave him a chance and he won. Realize it or not, you've been humbled on this one...

Don't worry Datsyuk underestimators, keep watching and perhaps you'll catch on...

Thank you. Nothing more. Just thank you.

[Zion 93]

Thank you. Nothing more. Just thank you.

That about sums it up for me.

Thanks for stopping by, folks. Nothing more to see here. Have a good night.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I didn't expect Datsyuk to win it, and I was surprised he was nominated. this is more due to the fact that he carried a reputation as an average defensive player into the season, so some voters were likely to not vote for him.

But my rating of him as not the best defensive forward? That comes from watching games. I see Datsyuk as one of the better defensive forwards in the league. But he has never once made me say 'wow, he's good defensively' the way Zetterberg does almost every game. No, I am not talking about the 5-on-3. I am talking about his defensive positioning and awareness; he is able to read the play and position himself to take away the passing lane before the puck is even to the passer. Datsyuk is much more reactive on defense; in this regard he follows the play rather than anticipating and preventing the way Z does.

Watch how well Z performed defensively in the first period of Game 4 vs Dallas; there are some good examples of what I am talking about.

takeaways is a good stat to lead...but it's not a definitive indicator of defensive play.

Eva, you're just not paying attention. Datsyuk isn't as great at reading plays and getting into passing lanes? You need to watch a little closer. Many of the takeaways Dats gets are around the blueline and through the neutral zone when he's knocking passes out of the air. He's the best forward we have at intercepting passes. I'd say that means he's pretty good at reading plays and getting into passing lanes.

And just b/c your opinion of his defensive abilities doesn't jive with reality you can't expect us to believe what you believe.

You want definitive? Look at that picture of Dats with his arm around the Selke. That definitive enough for you?

Edited June 16, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[egroen 384]

I think Datsyuk, moreso even than other scorers like Zetterberg and Fedorov, forces many to rethink "defensive forward". Datsyuk is so lethal on his backcheck, I picture him as a blue shark out there (sleek, fast, very deadly despite smaller size)... I have never seen someone steal the puck like he can.

Traditional defensive forwards and two-way forwards are better on the PK and downlow in the defensive zone than Datsyuk. Zetterberg is much better than Datsyuk at this (though Datsyuk is still very good). But Datsyuk almost single-handidly can destroy a team's transition game through his forecheck and backcheck. It is incredible. Even when he is not stealing the puck, you can visibly see how tentative the other team is bringing the puck up the ice when he is out there... and then they'll just make a bad pass or dump it.

This was so evident against a young, inexperienced team like the Penguins. Pittsburgh was not *that* bad at transitioning, in fact, they were amongst the best in the East at it. Zetterberg and Lidstrom ate up their options, but Datsyuk literally scared them s***less.

So Datsyuk can kill penalties very well, hits incredibly well for someone his size, had an outstanding +/-, wins most of his faceoffs, grinds it out in the corners like few others, backchecks and forechecks constantly -- that alone should get him noticed for the Selke... but when you factor in his steals, and the intangible chaos and disruption his mere presence brings to an opposition's transition game, you might have a winner. I think that got noticed this year.

[Kira 451]

You mentioned a very integral part of Pasha's game - the intangibles. You can make stats say anything you want...you know that old saying about "lies, damned lies and statistics". But it's those things that he does that don't show up on the scoresheet that make all the difference. Watch and see how many times he will distract players to him and open up a teammate, thereby giving him a chance for an open pass for the shot. How many times has he done that and not gotten an assist for it or a goal, but without him doing that, there would be no shot at all.

Or how many times will the opposition be heading down the ice and all of a sudden the play is broken up enough with just the tip of his stick - it's not enough to be considered a steal or a takeaway, but it's just enough to disrupt the flow of play and give the Wings a chance to get the puck back and go on the offensive again. It's things like this that you never see on a score sheet at the end of a game that make Pasha such a dangerous player to go against.

Stats are all very nice, if that's what you're into, but you absolutely have to take those intangibles into account as well. It's like an iceberg - what you don't see under the surface of the water is a lot of the time a hell of a lot more dangerous than what you do see above the surface.