Johan Franzen

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I think the recent play of Johan is deluding your opinion of Homer. Man this happens so much on here. Homer is known and feared by every goalie in the league. He has his own knickname from the NHL as a whole not just the team. The refs look for the "Demolition Man" because he does his job so good he has to be specially looked at. He is as tough as nails and an enormous asset to this team. I am not down grading Johan his achievments are great, but I am not sure he can replace Homer. Just my opinion. This team without Homer in the playoff's is weakened.

Before his injuries he was on a very similar streak as Johan... VERY!!!!

Amen Icemonkey. One month does not make a player. Homer is a whole step above what Mule has yet to reach. Hey don't count me wrong, I want him to succeed and really think he can and will be a great player, but to think he has replaced Homer is silly. Like the thread says Franzen stepped up and it was about time too.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

That's fine in principle but last year we all saw that Cleary should get top six minutes out there... He's easily our third best forward in the post-season.

Absolutely! Cleary is built for the post season like the Wings of old - McCarty, LaPointe... Heart and hustel like his is worth millions and millions come the post season. To top it off, he scored a huge playoff penatly shot. THAT was an awesome moment, no matter what happened after.

[eva unit zero 271]

That's fine in principle but last year we all saw that Cleary should get top six minutes out there... He's easily our third best forward in the post-season.

Cleary would get top six minutes with that lineup.

Last year, the Wings saw about 8 minutes of shorthanded time and about 10 minutes of PP time per game, with about 43 minutes of ES time.

If we assume the Wings to roll four lines fairly evenly at even strength, the first line sees maybe 13 minutes, the second 12, third line 11 minutes, and the fourth line 9 minutes.

Now consider special teams. Of the top two PP and PK units, only Cleary, Zetterberg, and recently Franzen play on both. If we assume the top PK unit sees 2 minutes, the second unit 3 minutes, and the remaining 2 minutes are split fairly equally across the other four 'PK' forwards the Wings use, and that the top PP plays 5 minutes, the second PP plays 3.5 minutes, and the remaining 1.5 minutes are split amongst other players, then Cleary should average close to 18 minutes. Ahead of him would be Zetterberg's 22 and Datsyuk's 19. Holmstrom would be slated for 17, Franzen for close to 18, Hudler for about 16, Filppula for close to 17. How is Cleary not receiving 'top-six' minutes in my scenario?

[Superman54 91]

I'd rather Cleary on the third because Filppula/Hudler provides the same kind of dynamic as Zetterberg/Datsyuk...which is a dynamic we know works well with Homer.

Cleary with Kopecky and Samuelsson provides more of a defensive third line that can still score, which balances out the offense a bit.

good point, but Huds needs to show he deserves beings the 2nd line LW, and right now he isn't. He has gotten his chances with all the injuries. Poor guy, the puck just aint going in for him.

[Superman54 91]

If by similar you mean the exact opposite I agree. Prior to getting hurt he hadn't scored a goal in 16 games. 16 games. With 99.9% of his shifts alongside Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg.

Homer is a tremendously streaky player, but he is great at what he does (ie net-front presence). But that is the only thing he does well. Turns out that Franzen is tremendously good in Homer's office as well, but when he isn't doing that he is better than Homer at every other aspect of hockey.

When Homer gets healthy he should take the crease role for the PP unit, but ES it should be Franzen up on the top line. Best way to utilize their respective strengths and minimize weaknesses.

too true, Franz siezed his oppurtunity and he isn't showing any signs of slowing down. I love Holms, but with him being out for soo long and leaving with a cold streak, it only makes sense in my eyes to keep Franz on the first line and bump Holms to the 2nd. Holms should always be on the PP 1 unit as he is the best in front of the net, but Franzen offers more of a all around talent

[eva unit zero 271]

good point, but Huds needs to show he deserves beings the 2nd line LW, and right now he isn't. He has gotten his chances with all the injuries. Poor guy, the puck just aint going in for him.

If we're going based on recent offensive performance, Hudler would be ahead of guys like Holmstrom, Samuelsson, and yes, even Cleary has been producing less than Hudler recently. If we're going based on the full season, Hudler is still ahead of Filppula as far as points and points-per-game. If PPG were our criteria for top-six spots, Samuelsson is more deserving than Filppula, Hudler, or Franzen.

So I'm not really seeing where Hudler doesn't deserve to be the second line LW in my scenario, when i explained that I was spreading the scoring across three lines and trying to match the Z/D/H dynamic on both the top two lines I set up. Would you argue that there would be a better fit with Filppula to create the D/Z dynamic than Hudler, out of all players currently on the roster? I sure as hell don't think there is.

[Superman54 91]

If we're going based on recent offensive performance, Hudler would be ahead of guys like Holmstrom, Samuelsson, and yes, even Cleary has been producing less than Hudler recently. If we're going based on the full season, Hudler is still ahead of Filppula as far as points and points-per-game. If PPG were our criteria for top-six spots, Samuelsson is more deserving than Filppula, Hudler, or Franzen.

So I'm not really seeing where Hudler doesn't deserve to be the second line LW in my scenario, when i explained that I was spreading the scoring across three lines and trying to match the Z/D/H dynamic on both the top two lines I set up. Would you argue that there would be a better fit with Filppula to create the D/Z dynamic than Hudler, out of all players currently on the roster? I sure as hell don't think there is.

I said not right now

Im not a Huds hater, I actually enjoy him, but in the playoffs you get banged up, and so i would rather see Cleary who can handle the beating more then Huds can. Im scared that Huds will dissapear in the playoffs because of his size, the guy is gonna get punished like crazy. With Cleary, he can handle the body, he is a gritty player and last years playoffs proved what he is capable of doing, the guy can fight back. All im saying is I think Cleary would do better on the 2nd rather then Huds, and I do understand with the spreading the scoring lines, I just don't see Huds performing enough to be a 2nd liner in the playoffs, thats all. To me the little guy would do better with the reduced ice time, I mean he showed he was good with that last season.

[norrisnick 1]

I said not right now

Im not a Huds hater, I actually enjoy him, but in the playoffs you get banged up, and so i would rather see Cleary who can handle the beating more then Huds can. Im scared that Huds will dissapear in the playoffs because of his size, the guy is gonna get punished like crazy. With Cleary, he can handle the body, he is a gritty player and last years playoffs proved what he is capable of doing, the guy can fight back. All im saying is I think Cleary would do better on the 2nd rather then Huds, and I do understand with the spreading the scoring lines, I just don't see Huds performing enough to be a 2nd liner in the playoffs, thats all. To me the little guy would do better with the reduced ice time, I mean he showed he was good with that last season.

When's the last time Hudler missed any games due to injury? Now for Cleary?

Jiri's last year in GR he got run face first into the end boards in the first game of the playoffs. Got busted up pretty bad. He scored the OT winner that game and was pretty easily the Griffins' best player in their run to the Conference Finals. In game 7 of the 2nd round GR was trailing 4-1 late in the 2nd period. They won 5-4 on the back of Hudler's 5 point night. Hudler is a big game player and not shy when things get rough and he's shown time and time again that he can take it. He's gotten completely annihilated a few times this season and he just bounces back up. Remember that Phaneuf hit a month or two back? Crazy that a guy his size can live through that.

[Cicada 4]

When's the last time Hudler missed any games due to injury? Now for Cleary?

Jiri's last year in GR he got run face first into the end boards in the first game of the playoffs. Got busted up pretty bad. He scored the OT winner that game and was pretty easily the Griffins' best player in their run to the Conference Finals. In game 7 of the 2nd round GR was trailing 4-1 late in the 2nd period. They won 5-4 on the back of Hudler's 5 point night. Hudler is a big game player and not shy when things get rough and he's shown time and time again that he can take it. He's gotten completely annihilated a few times this season and he just bounces back up. Remember that Phaneuf hit a month or two back? Crazy that a guy his size can live through that.

absoultely...

the guy was a monster in the playoffs that year...

however, he has one goal in 33 freaking games. i don't see an issue playing him in the 1st round, but if we get the ducks in rd2 as we expect to he's going to have no impact what so ever...

i'm not agaist rolling only three lines against the ducks though...have a 4th line which sees no 5/5 time but have downey and mccarty if it gets chippy and have hudler for the 2nd line PP unit exclusively...

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

When's the last time Hudler missed any games due to injury? Now for Cleary?

Jiri's last year in GR he got run face first into the end boards in the first game of the playoffs. Got busted up pretty bad. He scored the OT winner that game and was pretty easily the Griffins' best player in their run to the Conference Finals. In game 7 of the 2nd round GR was trailing 4-1 late in the 2nd period. They won 5-4 on the back of Hudler's 5 point night. Hudler is a big game player and not shy when things get rough and he's shown time and time again that he can take it. He's gotten completely annihilated a few times this season and he just bounces back up. Remember that Phaneuf hit a month or two back? Crazy that a guy his size can live through that.

Hudler has pretty much been a healthy scratch since January, even though he's been dressed for every game. I'm beginning to think that his existence is an illusion to me.

Yeah, he doesn't get hurt often for his size, but what's the point of him being durable if he doesn't bring anything to the team?

[rick zombo 3,739]

Assuming this team is healthy heading in to game #1 of the playoffs, I'm having a hard time imagining where Hudler fits. With the way Farnzen is playing, and with Cleary's play being built for playoff-type hockey it's hard to bump them down any lower than the 2nd line:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer

Cleary - Franzen - Filpulla

Drake - Draper - Maltby

Samuelson - Kopecky - Hudler??????

Or what?

[TRD604 8]

He is doing great for me in my hockey pool

[ProfessorLidstrom5 0]

Assuming this team is healthy heading in to game #1 of the playoffs, I'm having a hard time imagining where Hudler fits. With the way Farnzen is playing, and with Cleary's play being built for playoff-type hockey it's hard to bump them down any lower than the 2nd line:

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer

Cleary - Franzen - Filpulla

Drake - Draper - Maltby

Samuelson - Kopecky - Hudler??????

Or what?

I actually like that lineup you got there. The only thing I would switch would be Hudler for Downey/Mac. Hudler has been almost invisible the last few weeks and will get knocked around quite a bit in the playoffs. Without him putting up goals he serves no purpose IMO.

[norrisnick 1]

absoultely...

the guy was a monster in the playoffs that year...

however, he has one goal in 33 freaking games. i don't see an issue playing him in the 1st round, but if we get the ducks in rd2 as we expect to he's going to have no impact what so ever...

i'm not agaist rolling only three lines against the ducks though...have a 4th line which sees no 5/5 time but have downey and mccarty if it gets chippy and have hudler for the 2nd line PP unit exclusively...

Against the Ducks we'll need every PP player we can get.

[hak 21]

franzen got 3rd star of the month at nhl.com (after ovechkin and fleury)

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&a...rticleid=358801

he recorded 6 GWG this month (in 13games) breaking howe's (tied with zata) franchise record set in feb 1952. (zata had 5 GWG in february 2007)

hot or what? keep it up!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Against the Ducks we'll need every PP player we can get.

QFT. They take a lot of penalties, and their PK hasnt been too good this year..

[Superman54 91]

I do agree, Huds is a tough kid but if he isn't producing now, what makes you think he will in the playoffs, it is much harder then

1 goal in 33 games....i have to go with cleary over that, considering thats all I want.

[VM1138 1,921]

I do agree, Huds is a tough kid but if he isn't producing now, what makes you think he will in the playoffs, it is much harder then

1 goal in 33 games....i have to go with cleary over that, considering thats all I want.

Didn't Babcock sit Hudler for most of the crucial parts of the playoffs last year? Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me. I highly doubt Hudler will see much playing time. Especially with DMac in the lineup. Kopecky I feel is pretty useless, too. But at least he brings physical play and he tries.

[norrisnick 1]

Didn't Babcock sit Hudler for most of the crucial parts of the playoffs last year? Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me. I highly doubt Hudler will see much playing time. Especially with DMac in the lineup. Kopecky I feel is pretty useless, too. But at least he brings physical play and he tries.

Last season Jiri was 13th in average TOI among forwards during the regular season. When Bertuzzi got healthy Jiri sat, then played sporadically for Calder. This season he's been the 9th forward in average TOI for most of the season. He's not going to get bumped by McCarty, Kopecky, Hartigan, or whoever else populating the 4th line.

Some of you guys should look up another 2nd year bottom 6/PP specialist from the mid/late 90s and how average regular season numbers often don't correlate with playoff production.

[eva unit zero 271]

Last season Jiri was 13th in average TOI among forwards during the regular season. When Bertuzzi got healthy Jiri sat, then played sporadically for Calder. This season he's been the 9th forward in average TOI for most of the season. He's not going to get bumped by McCarty, Kopecky, Hartigan, or whoever else populating the 4th line.

Some of you guys should look up another 2nd year bottom 6/PP specialist from the mid/late 90s and how average regular season numbers often don't correlate with playoff production.

NN, Quite using logic and reason to explain why Hudler should and will play in the playoffs this year. Clearly the majority feels that Downey, McCarty, and likely Mark Hartigan, Darren Helm, Mattias Ritola, and Tayshaun Prince will help the Wings infinitely more this playoff run than Hudler possibly could in his career. I mean, the guy's not even six feet tall, how could he do anything in the playoffs right? Wayne Gretzky was over six feet tall...

[Opie 308]

T. Prince skating now that would make for a great Youtube video!!!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

NN, Quite using logic and reason to explain why Hudler should and will play in the playoffs this year. Clearly the majority feels that Downey, McCarty, and likely Mark Hartigan, Darren Helm, Mattias Ritola, and Tayshaun Prince will help the Wings infinitely more this playoff run than Hudler possibly could in his career. I mean, the guy's not even six feet tall, how could he do anything in the playoffs right? Wayne Gretzky was over six feet tall...

Tayshaun Prince has done as much for the Wings the last 2 months as Hudler has.

He sucks, plain and simple. Stop making excuses for his play.

[Superman54 91]

I don't want Huds scratched, thats not my arguement. I just do not agree of him being on the 2nd line. You can see the kids confidence is not there. You even watch an interview of him now and he doesn't smile no more. My case is just not having him over Cleary, that doesn't work for me.

[Opie 308]

I truly think that the wings have the ability to put three threatening lines out on the ice and one very good checking(Read as grind) line.

Z-D-H

Cleary Flip Mule

Grind line (Mac/Drake whomever on the other wing with Malts Draper)

Kopecky Huds Sammy Giving this line 10 or so minutes would be enough for them, but superman54 brings up an interesting point about confidence, it is no coincidence that Huds confidence follows the flow of his minutes, he is a young kid and to him minutes is a direct correlation with what his coach thinks of him.

I still think his best linemate on this current roster would be dats, but I don't think we will see a:

Huds Dats Cleary/Franzen/Homer line anytime soon.

And I truly think size has nothing to do with his abilities on the ice, that is just another reason for people to dog on a red wing player that doesn't have 100pims and 10 fights.

EDIT: Downey would be in the Drake/Mac mix but in my haste I forgot to put him in the grouping, but unless a team really starts taking liberties with the forwards and Mac/Drake don't step up, that is the only way Downey sees post season Ice time!

But back to the topic:

THE MULE, THE MULE, THE MULE IS ON FIRE, WE DON'T WANT NO WATER LET THE FOTHER MUCKER BURN!!!!!!

Edited April 2, 2008 by Opie

[eva unit zero 271]

Tayshaun Prince has done as much for the Wings the last 2 months as Hudler has.

He sucks, plain and simple. Stop making excuses for his play.

Hudler does more for the Wings than Downey, Hartigan, McCarty, Drake, Kopecky, Helm, Ritola.

Hudler's stat line for March: 13 GP, 1-4-5, +1. TOI: 188:00, ATOI: 14:28

By comparison, other players' last 13 games, in order of how good their stats are.

Samuelsson: 2-6-8, +8. TOI: 226:38, ATOI:17:26

Cleary: 4-5-9, +4. TOI: 198:50, ATOI: 15:18

Filppula: 3-5-8, E. TOI: 238:41, ATOI: 18:22

Hudler 1-4-5, +1. TOI: 188:00, ATOI: 14:28

Kopecky: 1-2-3, +1. TOI: 154:28, ATOI: 11:53

Holmstrom: 0-4-4, -5. TOI: 237:08, ATOI: 18:14

I'm not even bringing up guys like Drake, Maltby, McCarty, Downey, and Draper who haven't been even close to as good as the guys I did list, or the big three (Z/D/F) who have been point-per-game scorers. Explain to me how Hudler 'hasn't done anything' and deserves all the bashing, yet other players who have done less get a free pass.