Double Standard

[wingsownnhl43 14]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

[CAredwingsfan91 28]

WTF!

[Z and D for the C 712]

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

In straight up offense, sidney crosby IS.....the second best player in the world, right being Ovechkin. The best player in the world is Lidstrom. Then Ovechkin, then Z, then Crosby. IF you're only talking about offense, then Ovechkin, Crosby, Z.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

Saying they're going to take it one game at a time is legit, it's what babs says, there is no problem with that. I respect that. But when you say stupid s*** like they're not playing catch up right now when they're down 3-1 in the series is retarded, and saying Z didn't make an amazing play on the 5 on 3 is even more retarded.

Edited June 1, 2008 by Z and D for the C

[Mule Train 0]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

Short answer: The difference is that Crysby (a player) shows little respect to the PLAYERS on Detroit. Whether or not we (fans) show any respect to an opposing (player) is apples to oranges. I am certain he couldnt care less what any of us really think about him pro or con.

I want him to say nothing....except possibly: Meet you out at the golf course Tuesday morning Micheal. I judge him by a couple of seasons of watching him dive and cry on Center Ice. Is he a victim of his own celebrity? Maybe. I don't see him running from the reporters and the endorsement deals though. Negative attention comes with the package.

Are we as fans sometimes over the top? Absolutely. That's what makes watching hockey so much fun.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

If you are referring to my "Datsyuk & Zetterberg > Crosby & Malkin" thread then maybe you should read it. They are a better all-around duo and the proof is on the front page of every sports section in the country. It reads "Wings 3, Pens 1."

Malkin has 0 goals and is -3, Crosby is only effective on the PP. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are BOTH Selke finalists and one of them will win it. Who is to blame for this???

As for them both being better than Crosby, that is debatable. But right now, IMO, I'd take Z over Crosby because he gets s*** done when it counts. And I'd take Dats over Crosby because he is the best 5 way player in the NHL (score, skate, defend, hit, and stickhandle) and he can play any situation.

OV is better than Crosby offensively. Dats and Z are both better defensively. Lids is the best player in the world.

[kelloggfan 0]

puh LEASE! I have not seen Crosby do much but cherry pick beside the net. What other goals has he had? What else has he done? Maybe he can run the gamet in the Eastern Conference...look how he preforms against the Western Conference.

Also...lot's of whining and crying by Crosby...I'm just not seeing the "best player in NHL"! I have watched NHL for decades so I don't see what you people who are hoisting this guy above all other players are seeing...he's basically the Steve Yzerman of Pittsburg.

For you Pens fans...your time will come...but with a coach who is a poor sport(comments that he's made - this transfers to the players and fans) and a facility that denies the purchase of tickets of the opposing team's fans just shows that you all have some growing to do as a hockey community.

We love our wings like you love your pens...

Edited June 1, 2008 by kelloggfan

[C-TownWing 0]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

I feel like I can speak somewhat objectively on this because the Pens are actually my (distant) 2nd favorite team. Sidney Crosby is not the best player in the world, period. Like the guy above said, it's Nick Lidstrom. Ovechkin's better than Crosby too. Z might be slightly behind that group (although I'm re-thinking that because of these playoffs), but it's not a huge difference, and I wouldn't laugh at someone who called Z better. There are things Z does better than Crosby (defense and probably goal-scoring come to mind).

If there are people bashing Crosby for saying "one game at a time," they're in the minority. I certainly don't have a problem with that, it's always the right answer. I think most bash him because of things like whining about obstruction in the media, saying Z's play on the 5-on-3 wasn't really a big deal (I'm sure Adam Hall does it all the time!), or whatever the hell he was doing after the final horn in game 4. Can you imagine Lidstrom acting like that? How about Yzerman? Sakic? Messier? Me neither. Crosby's an immensely talented player, but at this point in his career he's a little ***** who has no business captaining a Jr. B team, let alone a team in the Stanley Cup Finals. I really do hope he matures over the next couple years, but as someone who's been handed just about everything in his hockey life, I'm skeptical.

[Firehawk 305]

Hmm, how good would Crosby really look if he had to contend with Western teams for 80% of the games a year rather than weak ass Eastern teams? Big difference.

Ovechkin is far better than Crosby. And perhaps my opinions are based on this series, becasue that's all the exposure I've really had. Careers are made by what you do in the playoffs, and for that matter, nothing I've seen is leading me to believe Crosby is a better overall player than Zetterberg or Datsyuk. What do you think makes Crosby better offensively than Datsyuk or Zetterberg? Don't believe the hype. Zett is every bit as good, and I think Datsyuk has the best hands I've ever seen. The major advantage these two players have over Crosby is that they can play defense. Crosby, at this time, cannot.

Maybe when Crosby matures more, he'll be better, but right now, you'll have to spell it out for me on how this kid is better.

[NHLrules? 32]

Hmm, how good would Crosby really look if he had to contend with Western teams for 80% of the games a year rather than weak ass Eastern teams? Big difference.

Ovechkin is far better than Crosby. And perhaps my opinions are based on this series, becasue that's all the exposure I've really had. Careers are made by what you do in the playoffs, and for that matter, nothing I've seen is leading me to believe Crosby is a better overall player than Zetterberg or Datsyuk. What do you think makes Crosby better offensively than Datsyuk or Zetterberg? Don't believe the hype. Zett is every bit as good, and I think Datsyuk has the best hands I've ever seen. The major advantage these two players have over Crosby is that they can play defense. Crosby, at this time, cannot.

Maybe when Crosby matures more, he'll be better, but right now, you'll have to spell it out for me on how this kid is better.

QFT, Crosby would be just another 1st liner in the West.

Hed be getting pounded EVERY game and would see what its like facing head hunting teams half the schedule.

Pronger would kill this kid.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

Someday, Crosby will be a complete player and will likely be exponentially better than Dats and Z are in their primes.

Right now, Dats and Z are better players, because not only are they great offensively, they're the best defensive forwards in the league.

Not too mention, Crosby gets frustrated easily and whines when he should be fighting through checks and neutral zone interference.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

Kidding?

Dats and Hank are both in their prime, and are significantly better than Crosby. He can't forcheck, or play shutdown D like them. Some day, but right now they are miles ahead of Sid.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I wouldn't bash Crosby so much if he didn't actively try to take credit away from the Wings when he lost.

[XxGoWingsxX 0]

Hey, i started the thread in example one...read my whole post before critisizing. I said crosby is amazing but dats and z are better overall player, and crosby is mainly an offensive player....why do u think crosby isn't on the pk line?

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

[Jericho613 74]

Why are you starting two threads about how great Crosby is and how we disrespect him, If you love him so much jump on the sinking Pens ship, cuz we are all on our way to witness the 11th stanley cup. This is sports and fans can disrespect, respect, criticize anyone they want to support their team and stick up for their team. Your just a poser, after Monday you and all the others that doubted the Red Wings will be praising our glory. Piss off man.

[NHLrules? 32]

Why are you starting two threads about how great Crosby is and how we disrespect him, If you love him so much jump on the sinking Pens ship, cuz we are all on our way to witness the 11th stanley cup. This is sports and fans can disrespect, respect, criticize anyone they want to support their team and stick up for their team. Your just a poser, after Monday you and all the others that doubted the Red Wings will be praising our glory. Piss off man.

Easy killer.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

May I remind you that this is a Red Wings fan board and that we are not required to pay homage to all things Crosby?

We have our own bona-fide stars in Detroit and feel, rightfully so in many cases, that our team is better without Crosby on it.

We prefer our players to be good defensively as well as offensively. We prefer our players to man-up and take responsibility when they put in a bad performance. We prefer our players to have maturity.

We don't want our team to be called "Henrik Zetterberg and the Red Wings." Obviously the Pittsburgh Penguins have officially changed their name to "Sidney Crosby and the Penguins," because they don't do anything to correct people calling them that.

We want a team, not a single star player that gets all of the attention of the league thrown on them,

We love our Wings. We don't like all others, especially when they are playing the Wings. We are quick to point out the flaws of every other player in the league, but defend to the death when other teams' fans pick on any member of our team.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

Very nicely put. I agree with everything, bot only because I'm a Pens fan, but it all really makes sense. It is very arguable to say Crosby is the best in the world. I completely understand. But as a long time Pens fan and watching this kid play 82+ times a year over the least three years, he has won over our hearts here in Pittsburgh. It can even be said that he had just as big a hand as anyone in keeping the team in Pittsburgh with his play on the ice and his maturity off the ice.

And I have really really really been impressed with Detroit. And you, my friend, nailed it on the head when you said that Detroit's defense is just suffocating and can make even the best player, an average player. Maybe it's not the way Crosby or Malkin are playing, it's the way the Wings defense is playing. These 2 helped us steamroll thru the East in the playoffs, but finally met their match in the Finals. And on the other hand, I think this is going to be a good experience for 87 and 71 for their success in the future.

I am still a firm believer in the Penguins and am not considering this series over yet. You have to win 4, not 3. While their isn't much to be optimistic about in the series for the Penguins, I still won't be calling this one over until it actually is over.

And by the way, I do think that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are 2 of the more underrated players in the NHL and they have been very impressive. But, to be realistic, I'm not sure if I'm ready to put these 2 elite talents next to Malkin and Crosby even if this series hasn't brought the best out of #87 and #71.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

Brain cell count reaching critically low levels. Must. Have. Cookies.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

QFT, Crosby would be just another 1st liner in the West.

Hed be getting pounded EVERY game and would see what its like facing head hunting teams half the schedule.

Pronger would kill this kid.

I'm sorry but that is just an ignorant statement.

Joe Thornton raised his production after he went westward, so that argument is flawed.

I do agree the west is better but its not like two diffirent leagues. Id say if the West was a 10 the east would be a 9, its just west has more playoff built teams.

Oh and btw I gurantee you if you were givin the chance to either have Crosby or Zetterberg 29 out of the 30 gms would take Crosby, with the exception being Holland.

I'm sorry but crosby isnt even old enough to drink yet, he will only improve with age.

Zetterberg is better now, but how defensivly repsonsible was he when he was 20? Oh wait he wasent even in the leauge.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

After browsing many threads on this forum, I'm some what amused at the double standard most of you posters have set. You guys continually preach and criticize the Pens for the lack of respect they have shown the Wings. While I agree, it's just funny reading your posts and the lack of respect most of you have for the Pens players.

Example 1 The Sidney Crosby bashing

There is a thread out right now saying that Zetterberg and Datsyuk are better players than Crosby. WTF lol. Come on guys, I'm as big a Wings fan as any but lets be real. I think you guys are blinded by how good the Red Wings defense really is. Our defense is capable of shutting down great players and making them look average. You guys are judging Crosby by this series and you just cant do that. Just because the Wings have made him look average, doesnt change the fact that he is the best player in the world. Always remember that great teams are more effective than great players.

2. There is a thread bashing Crosby for his post game press conference showing the Wings lack of respect by saying the Wings havent ran away with the series and that they are going to take it one game at a time. also WTF.

What do you want him to say. "Oh well, the Wings are just an amazing team. We arent ready to beat them yet. We might as well not even travel to Detroit because we are finished." Yeah, that would be a GREAT message to send to his team as captain. Of course he's going to say that they are still in this series and every game has been up for grabs.

I completely agree. People on this board commit way too much of their time to bashing Crosby - and its not just during these finals. Throughout the season there were consistently one or two threads about Sidney. I believe one poster even claimed Crosby was one of the bigger 'disappointments' in the league because he hasn't lived up to Wayne Gretzky.

Go figure - some people just never get tired of trashing players.

[wingsdiehard13 33]

Easy killer.

Aren't you the guy who said he was "Done with the NHL?" You need to be easy there yourself.

Anyways, back on topic, this is a Red Wings forum. What do you expect? Obviously there is going to be Crosby bashing. Sure, we may be a little bias, but Crosby and the Euro twins have two diffrent styles. One style is pure offense. The other is playing both ways.

Edit: Grammer

Edited June 1, 2008 by wingsdiehard13

[Mule Train 0]

Oh and btw I gurantee you if you were givin the chance to either have Crosby or Zetterberg 29 out of the 30 gms would take Crosby, with the exception being Holland.

Sure...the one GM about to raise the cup again.

I'm sorry but crosby isnt even old enough to drink yet, he will only improve with age.

You hope. A lot of massively overhyped players have never lived up to these wild expectations. Do Forsberg or Lindros ring any bells?

Zetterberg is better now, but how defensivly repsonsible was he when he was 20? Oh wait he wasent even in the leauge.

Of course not. The Red Wings believe in development of their talent at the lower levels of the system rather than rushing an immature and ill-prepared player into the league in a transparent bid to sell tickets. The lack of poise and immaturity the guy shows now is a direct result of not being mentored and developed correctly. He may still grow out of this; then again, he may not and end up five years from now being another player who didn't live up to expectations.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

You hope. A lot of massively overhyped players have never lived up to these wild expectations. Do Forsberg or Lindros ring any bells?

Of course not. The Red Wings believe in development of their talent at the lower levels of the system rather than rushing an immature and ill-prepared player into the league in a transparent bid to sell tickets. The lack of poise and immaturity the guy shows now is a direct result of not being mentored and developed correctly. He may still grow out of this; then again, he may not and end up five years from now being another player who didn't live up to expectations.

1) Forsberg and Lindros were both phenomenol players in their prime. There lack of output was based on injuries, not overhyped skills. Based on this Zetterberg will be more likely to fit the bill of those players, he already has a slew of related injuries. At one time both were the best player in the NHL. AND YES I MEAN THAT. Lindros in his legion of doom day was the most complete force you could ask for at the time, better than Sergi imo.

2) So your saying Crosby was ill prepared? well than our whole god damn team must be unprepeared, since no one can touch him statsically. He has already Surpassed my expectations for him, seeing as that every single year he has been in the leauge he has had more points per game than Zetterberg. 102 points as an eighteen year old meets my expectations. Zetterberg will no doubt one day reach a 100 but the fact remains that Crosby as an eighteen year old "UNPREPARED AND IMMATURE ROOKIE" roasted zetterberg in points without playing with another top ten player.

But nice try. When Crosby is 27 we can compare... until than you go with benchmarks, and Zetterberg was nowhere near sidneys level at that age.

And yes he is immature but so is everyone when they are 20. Remember the old gripes about Yzerman? yea k thanks

Edit: Clarity

Edited June 1, 2008 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[Mule Train 0]

1) Forsberg and Lindros were both phenomenol players in their prime. There lack of output was based on injuries, not overhyped skills. Based on this Zetterberg will be more likely to fit the bill as he already has a slew of related injuries. At one time both were the best player in the NHL. AND YES I MEAN THAT. Lindros in his legion of doom day was the most complete force you could ask for at the time, better than Sergi imo.

Forsberg is the most overhyped player of the last two decades. He doesn't even have numbers to get a look at the hall but he will be an automatic selection due to the unbelievable manlove heaped upon him by sportswriters. How many times did he bail on how many teams and run back to Sweden when things became too tough for his high-heel wearing ass? Injuries? Sure, from flopping on the ice like a tossed octopus at the slightest brush. FAIL.

Lindros wasn't ever in the top 100 players in the NHL. He folded up faster than a lawn chair against us in the cup finals and was a personal target for anyone who could hit due to his glass jaw. He skated like he was wearing combat boots and never learned to move the puck without looking down at it...exactly the reason he got splattered so many times by big hitters like Kasparitis and Stevens. To top it all off - he was a total bawl baby when he didn't get his way with management and he had to have his daddy fight his battles with Bobby Clarke. FAIL.

2) So your saying Crosby was ill prepared? well than our whole god damn team must be unprepeared, since no one can touch him statsically. He has already Surpassed my expectations for him, seeing as that every single year he has been in the leauge he has had more points per game than Zetterberg. 102 points as an eighteen year old meets my expectations. Zetterberg will no doubt one day reach a 100 but the fact remains that Crosby as an eighteen year old "UNPREPARED AND IMMATURE ROOKIE" roasted zetterberg in points without playing with another top ten player.

Yes. I am stating specifically ILL-PREPARED. Statisics are not the only factor in a players preparedness to play hockey. This is not NHL 2K8....it is real life. Crosby was AND REMAINS woefully unprepared to accept the role of captain and assert himself as a leader. What he does do is embarass the organization and the league by bleating like a wounded sheep every time he doesnt get his way. He is a one-way, cherry-picking, pouting, whiney petulant spoiled man-child who need to be put over the knee of the coach for his own good. IN TIME he might grow into the player you hope for but for now he can only pad his stats and work on his golf game. In his current incarnation he will never touch the cup unless he become a leader and mans up. Again, FAIL.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

Lindros in his legion of doom day was the most complete force you could ask for at the time, better than Sergi imo.

No, no, no. Granted, I agree in part and think Lindros was an excellent player, but he was a loafer defensively and hardly ever was on the PK for Philly. There was nothing that complete about him.

I have an irrational love for Sergei still to this day, and I maintain that the 1994-1996 version of Sergei Fedorov was the best player in NHL history. Only the stacked roster he played on prevented him from reaching the sort of stats that would have sealed the deal.