Lilja 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 yes I hope he gets out of there quickly.. noone appreciates him anyway. Toronto fans are difficult to understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 Mats wouldnt really do this knowing the rivalry....would he? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
octopusonice 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 So basically what you're saying is that signing with any team other than Detroit means you don't want to win the Cup?... I did not say that he did not want to win the Cup, only that he valued a bigger check more. I think his chances of getting the Cup would have been better in Detroit. He's not getting any younger, so his so called window of opportunity is limited. ...Montreal has a very solid young team and they need guys like Mats who are cagey veterans that can help the kids along. Now, they just need to add a little bit of toughness and they're set. I agree Montreal has a solid team and Mats can help them, but I don't think they'll win it all in the next couple of years, and as you said, they still have to get some more players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 794 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 yes I hope he gets out of there quickly.. noone appreciates him anyway. Toronto fans are difficult to understand. i think our friend MacK_Attack would argue with you on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
octopusonice 0 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 (edited) Uh, Montreal was a genuine Cup contender. Price just needs a little more time to get himself comfortably in the #1 goalie role... Again, I think Montreal has a good team. I'm just not sure that Price can make this acclimation and the Habs can get more toughness (as Mack_Attack alluded to earlier) while Sundin is still with them. I was praying that the Habs would steal Hossa from Pittsburgh though. I'd rather see the Panthers win a Cup than the Penguins. I never disliked the Pens that much until the SCF. Hossa was definitely a thorn in our side. Edit: fixed some spelling Edited June 20, 2008 by octopusonice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 yes I hope he gets out of there quickly.. noone appreciates him anyway. Toronto fans are difficult to understand. Here's where I have to call you out on that one. The Leafs have their fair share of brain-dead, completely moronic fans. I'll be the first to admit it. However, EVERY team in the league has those fans. The problem is, the Leafs have such a massive fanbase that there's more of those fans and thus, it seems like every fan is like that. I believe the proportion of dumb Leaf fans to smart Leaf fans is the same as any team. It's just sheer numbers. Painting every Leaf fan like that is very insulting to my intelligence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DRW Dominance 255 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 Apparently the Leafs have made a substantial offer to Sundin to keep him in Toronto. This according to Sportsnet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 Apparently the Leafs have made a substantial offer to Sundin to keep him in Toronto. This according to Sportsnet. 1 year, $7 million Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 1 year, $7 million So much for thinking Mats was available. He definitely won't leave the Leafs now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 So much for thinking Mats was available. He definitely won't leave the Leafs now. I don't know about that. No matter where Mats is going to play this year, he isn't going to take a discount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sixer 37 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 Wow, he must have really hated ferguson jr. to not get traded and then sign with the Habs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 why are the Leafs only offering him one year? ps. mack attack, everytime i read your signature i laugh. oh, the irony... do you remember who the leafs took instead of sakic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 I've gotta say, I'm going to lose a bit of respect for the guy if he ends up going to the Habs. If you're going to make a slam-dunk, one-shot run for the Cup, you might as well sign with the best club available. And the Habs...well.... I know I trashed the Habs a lot this past season saying they had no chance at the Cup but they are definitely headed in the right direction. Carbonneau and Gainey are winners and I firmly believe they will lead the team to back to being a contender in the future. Maybe even in '09. Mats Sundin will certainly help their cause. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 why are the Leafs only offering him one year? ps. mack attack, everytime i read your signature i laugh. oh, the irony... do you remember who the leafs took instead of sakic? Luke Richardson. As for one year, I believe it's all the Leafs are willing to do right now because they want to go a different direction soon, and don't want a large cap-hit Sundin on the books beyond one year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 I don't know about that. No matter where Mats is going to play this year, he isn't going to take a discount. I love Mats but he's not worth $7M. the Laffs can keep him. the Leafs had about $11M in cap space before this offer. a collosal chunk of that gets eaten up by talent they had last year. good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MacK_Attack 108 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 I love Mats but he's not worth $7M. the Laffs can keep him. the Leafs had about $11M in cap space before this offer. a collosal chunk of that gets eaten up by talent they had last year. good luck. It's not about this year. The Leafs aren't trying to compete right off the bat. I believe that the Leafs offer to Mats is a goodwill offer that I'm not sure they believe he will take. This is all about setting the deck for next summer when Burke takes over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 I know I trashed the Habs a lot this past season saying they had no chance at the Cup but they are definitely headed in the right direction. Carbonneau and Gainey are winners and I firmly believe they will lead the team to back to being a contender in the future. Maybe even in '09. Mats Sundin will certainly help their cause. The way I see it, the Pens are the team to beat in the East. If the Habs want to dethrone the Pens, it will take at least two major acquisitions and the proper development on Price's part. Then, even if those pieces fall into place and the Habs somehow find themselves in the finals, they'll need to take down a team like the Wings or Stars. Frankly, I don't think they'll be able to do it. But that's just me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grim 5 Report post Posted June 20, 2008 The Habs got erased by a beatdown Philly team who were themselves embarassed in the next round. they'll get no love or respect from me, even with Tanguay and Sundin. And to Mack... I'd find it sheer poetry if Burke ended up extended in Anaheim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 The way I see it, the Pens are the team to beat in the East. If the Habs want to dethrone the Pens, it will take at least two major acquisitions and the proper development on Price's part. Then, even if those pieces fall into place and the Habs somehow find themselves in the finals, they'll need to take down a team like the Wings or Stars. Frankly, I don't think they'll be able to do it. But that's just me. The fact that they're changing their system and turning Habs players into more accountable, defensively responsible players makes them better Cup-contenders without acquisitions IMO. I rate Gainey and Carbonneau as the two best defensive forwards ever and I know how they want their players to play. If they can get them playing like that, there's no way they won't be a tough team to beat. That's how I see the Habs anyway. We'll how long it takes them if they ever get there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 The fact that they're changing their system and turning Habs players into more accountable, defensively responsible players makes them better Cup-contenders without acquisitions IMO. Personally, I don't buy that. As Grim pointed out, they're coming off being owned by a hilariously debilitated Flyers team. So, while a policy of "accountability" may make a difference in the long run (i.e., start to pay dividends 3-5 seasons from now), in terms of the here and now (i.e., within a hypothetical multi-year Sundin contract), they're pretty much screwed. imho Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 Personally, I don't buy that. As Grim pointed out, they're coming off being owned by a hilariously debilitated Flyers team. So, while a policy of "accountability" may make a difference in the long run (i.e., start to pay dividends 3-5 seasons from now), in terms of the here and now (i.e., within a hypothetical multi-year Sundin contract), they're pretty much screwed. imho What does the past have to do with anything? I already said I'd been trashing the Habs saying they were not a chance to win in '08 even thought they were the top seed. When it pays dividends is questionable but my point is they are in good hands unlike the Leafs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 What does the past have to do with anything? A lot? I grow weary of this conversation.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 A lot? Tell that to the Celtics. I'm bored of this too because I don't understand what you're trying to argue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel1 32 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 So it's Cliff Fletcher's fault that Mats Sundin wouldn't waive his no-trade clause? It's the Leafs fault that they tried to get something for Mats Sundin and weren't allowed to? Owners don't need to know jack squat about hockey. They hired Cliff Fletcher. They're going to hire Brian Burke sometime in the next 12 months. Fletcher tried to trade Mats Sundin in February and wasn't allowed to because Mats Sundin didn't want to be a rental player. They also tried to trade Darcy Tucker, Bryan McCabe, Tomas Kaberle & Pavel Kubina. Cliff tried to completely blow things up and he tried to start from scratch, but those five lunkheads wouldn't let him. By trading Sundin's rights before July 1st, they will get something for him. Going by your assumptions, if they ran they way you think they do, all that would happen is that they'd let him go on July 1st for nothing. That's not what's happening at all. I'm going to completely disagree with you because if the Leafs were a team that had no plan or direction, they'd probably re-sign Mats Sundin to a huge three-year deal. Clearly, that also isn't going to happen. Nah I don't think it's Fletch's fault; I think it's the doodle-headed owners and JFJ who GAVE those ridiculous contracts out which included "no movement" clauses. If Sundin was the "class act" that everyone in Toronto says he is then he would have done what's best for the organization and allowed them to trade him last year if that's what the team wanted to do. It's typical Toronto arrogance that makes them believe that just because they sign someone it automatically makes them twice the player they really are. How else can you explain the ludicrous contracts to McCabe and Kubina? What other owner or GM would authorize contracts like that which comletely tied Toronto's hands at the trade deadline last year. BTW I don't think Toronto fans are dumb; I just get sick of the Canadian media (specifically CBC) ramming The Leafs up my ass every Saturday night of my life when there are much more deserving CANADIAN teams that they could be covering. It makes me sick that both the Flames and Oilers have been to the Cup finals recently yet Toronto is ALWAYS one of the games on HNIC. It's a slap in the face to the entire rest of the country and probably one of the main reasons (other than the Leafs perpetual sucking) why the Leafs are the most HATED Canadian team outside of Toronto by the rest of the country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted June 21, 2008 (edited) Tell that to the Celtics. I'm bored of this too because I don't understand what you're trying to argue. My original point was that it would be borderline idiotic of Mats to spend the next two to three seasons (possibly the remainder of his career) with the Habs if his primary goal is to win it all. Then someone said something to the effect of "The Habs are serious contenders and this could put them over the edge," to which I basically said, "LOL!" If Mats really wants to go for broke and put himself in a great position to win it all within the next couple of seasons, he'll go out west. Edited June 21, 2008 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
