Cheli close to re-signing

[VM1138 1,921]

Such short memories people have. One bad series against Dallas and that's all we hear about.

Turn in your Red Wings Fan card and get off of this message board. We have enough members with severe ADD here.

I agree. Old and slow is a bunch of BS. He has always been, and continues to be, huge for us in critical situations. I'd love to have him stay. It's like people are so in love with the "young talent" that they're blind. Imagine if we have a repaet of last year during a crucial part of the season. Our D goes down. Without Lids and Raf, we lack severely good clutch players. Chelios is one of them. His speed doesn't matter so much on a penalty kill, which he's great at.

[joshy207 156]

I don't see the reason the Wings need to sign Chelios now. Why not try the younger guys--who have stepped in and played well when called upon--and if there's a need to bring Chelios back at mid-season, do it. He can still be on the ice in practice as a coach, still be around the guys off the ice.

Right now, they run the risk of losing at least one of the younger defensemen to trade or waivers. Then what happens if a couple D go down during the season? Where's that depth? Gone, and what's left is inexperienced.

[Dabura 12,232]

Why not try the younger guys--who have stepped in and played well when called upon--

Let's say Chelios doesn't come back. Assuming Stuart also doesn't come back, only three spots are set in stone on the blue line: Lidstrom and Rafalski as #1 and #2, respectively, and Kronwall as #3. Beyond that, it's a near free-for-all between youngsters and a couple of not-so-great, middle-of-the-road guys in Lebda and Lilja. There's no substantial veteran presence beyond Nick and Raffi, and those two are going to be playing on the same pairing, so they can only go so far in teaching the young guys. That's not a god situation, and that's basically why Chelios is coming back.

Chelios and youth don't have to be mutually exclusive; just because Chelios is coming back doesn't mean the young guys won't each get a shot. I don't know why people seem to think otherwise.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I like Chelios, but really wish he would've just hung the skates up after Detroit won the Cup.

I don't get using a roster spot on a defenseman you know is only going to play half the season. It's one thing to do it with a kid who is developing and has a future with the team, but another to do it with Chelios.

[joshy207 156]

Let's say Chelios doesn't come back. Assuming Stuart also doesn't come back, only three spots are set in stone on the blue line: Lidstrom and Rafalski as #1 and #2, respectively, and Kronwall as #3. Beyond that, it's a near free-for-all between youngsters and a couple of not-so-great, middle-of-the-road guys in Lebda and Lilja. There's no substantial veteran presence beyond Nick and Raffi, and those two are going to be playing on the same pairing, so they can only go so far in teaching the young guys. That's not a god situation, and that's basically why Chelios is coming back.

Chelios and youth don't have to be mutually exclusive; just because Chelios is coming back doesn't mean the young guys won't each get a shot. I don't know why people seem to think otherwise.

I do see your point, but when they're talking about re-signing everyone, forwards and defensemen, they're possibly bringing 10 guys in for 8, maybe only 7 spots on defense. They'll have to move up to 3 of them. Ericsson may have to sit in GR because Lilja, Chelios AND Stuart come back? If Babcock said he was NHL-ready last year, why not put him in a position to play regularly in Detroit? I guess I just don't see the huge advantage of having Lilja back (other than experience) and I think Chelios would coach and not play until later in the season if they asked him to do that. The only way Meech, Quincey, and Ericsson are going to get better is with icetime. Not 8 minutes this game and 10 minutes 3 games later... regular, solid icetime. If the experiment does not work, bring back Chelios--refreshed from a long break--and trade for another guy who can handle #4 minutes.

[Dabura 12,232]

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - ?

? - ?

?

That's the way I look at it (again, assuming Stuart doesn't return). I don't think Lebda, Lilja or Chelios is a lock for any of those four spots. Beyond them, Meech, Quincey and maybe Ericsson are the youngsters looking to crack the lineup. So, you could look at it as 3-against-3, the old guard versus the new, all battling for four spots. I think that's a good situation, and I like that there's a veteran in the mix in Chelios.

[Opie 308]

I like Chelios, but really wish he would've just hung the skates up after Detroit won the Cup.

I don't get using a roster spot on a defenseman you know is only going to play half the season. It's one thing to do it with a kid who is developing and has a future with the team, but another to do it with Chelios.

Because as stated by others the only defensive spots that are a lock are 1-3, after that it is a free for all.

And why is it in the Downey thread it is ok for the wings to have a guy who is only going to play half the season, but it is not ok for them to have a veteran d-man who was on the PK for most of the season for half the year.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - ?

? - ?

?

That's the way I look at it (again, assuming Stuart doesn't return). I don't think Lebda, Lilja or Chelios is a lock for any of those four spots. Beyond them, Meech, Quincey and maybe Ericsson are the youngsters looking to crack the lineup. So, you could look at it as 3-against-3, the old guard versus the new, all battling for four spots. I think that's a good situation, and I like that there's a veteran in the mix in Chelios.

I think its fair to call Lilja a veteran as well, however I do agree with you. While I'm not 100% thrilled with this defensive lineup heading into the upcoming season, there's always the deadline where Kenny could (and probably will) pull a Stuart-type deal. Besides, it will be nice to see what the Wings have for the future given that Meech will probably be up full-time to start the season, and Q or Ericsson getting the occasional game in here or there due to injury.

[vladdy16 2,154]

Cheli was on 94.7 this morning. His knee surgery went perfectly and he'll be in game shape come September. It's a done deal that he'll sign for next year, but not sure what his role is. He is aware it will be in a diminished capacity and there are two different contracts from Holland on the table (terms not disclosed) but he's waiting to see who they sign. He wants the younger guys to get their playing time and mentioned Meech in particular needs to play 30 - 40 games, but thinks he has what it takes to make it in the NHL. They'll start with 8 defensemen in beginning. Stuart a question mark, as is Lilja.

Kenny has stated he wants to find a veteran goalie.

July 4th is his day with the Cup.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Because as stated by others the only defensive spots that are a lock are 1-3, after that it is a free for all.

And why is it in the Downey thread it is ok for the wings to have a guy who is only going to play half the season, but it is not ok for them to have a veteran d-man who was on the PK for most of the season for half the year.

Because Downey provides something otherwise completely lacking on the Wings.

Chelios does not. He fulfills a role as a 6th or 7th Dman, is slow, isn't really physical anymore. Yes he's a wily veteran, that's what allows him to still compete at this level all. But we've got kids who can do a lot of what he does, and though they'd make more mistakes I think them actually having a future with the team offsets that.

[Opie 308]

Because Downey provides something otherwise completely lacking on the Wings.

Chelios does not. He fulfills a role as a 6th or 7th Dman, is slow, isn't really physical anymore. Yes he's a wily veteran, that's what allows him to still compete at this level all. But we've got kids who can do a lot of what he does, and though they'd make more mistakes I think them actually having a future with the team offsets that.

I would argue that there are mental aspects of the game that Cheli is so far above and beyond the youngsters that it isn't even funny.

He can PK very effectively, how many of those youngsters would you feel comfortable on the PK. Remember, it is said that he will play some where near half the season (barring injuries) he will be there so that Meech/Quincey can get 40-50 games under their belts.

Cheli definitely provides something that the youngsters can not provide, experience.

[DatsMyWings13 4]

Because Downey provides something otherwise completely lacking on the Wings.

Chelios does not. He fulfills a role as a 6th or 7th Dman, is slow, isn't really physical anymore. Yes he's a wily veteran, that's what allows him to still compete at this level all. But we've got kids who can do a lot of what he does, and though they'd make more mistakes I think them actually having a future with the team offsets that.

Nicely Put!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I would argue that there are mental aspects of the game that Cheli is so far above and beyond the youngsters that it isn't even funny.

He can PK very effectively, how many of those youngsters would you feel comfortable on the PK. Remember, it is said that he will play some where near half the season (barring injuries) he will be there so that Meech/Quincey can get 40-50 games under their belts.

Cheli definitely provides something that the youngsters can not provide, experience.

I would agree with that. He's got decades of experience, and as I said, was a wily veteran. Which helps compensate for his age.

But even with all those aspects, he's still barely clinging to the 6th and 7th D-man spot. Maybe it was his knee or maybe it was his age, but he lost his job in the Stanley Cup playoffs to Lilja. That says something.

Our defensive corps is definitely up in the air, though I'm confused why people don't have Lebda in the lineup. He's signed through 2010 and averaged 16 minutes a game in the regular season. He's obviously not a top pairing guy, but I can't see him losing his job completely to the kids or Chelios.

and this is off topic, but if Babcock thinks Ericsson is such a stud, why haven't I seen talk of him getting playing time on the Wings?

[Opie 308]

I think, big difference between know and think, his knee is what kept him out of the SCF, I just don't think he went from being a solid 5-6 d-man to a horrible player that he became in the Dallas series.

However he is 46 and it could finally be catching up to him.

The Ericsson thing, I am unsure of, but maybe it is the fact he is one of the D-men that can go back to GR, I believe Meech and Quincey are out of options to go back and forth.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I don't see why so many people are against this. It's like no one read the damn article. He said he is 100% ok with playing have the games. Leaving the other half to the younger guys to be brought up the right way. If he doesn't get re-signed and we have a slew of injuries, and I hear any of you that didn't want him wishing that we signed him for the bare minimum, you should have to acknowledge you are an idiot haha.

The man has played for 51 years, is ok with playing a diminished role to get the young guys time, and has bleed red and white ever since he joined the Red Wings.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I would agree with that. He's got decades of experience, and as I said, was a wily veteran. Which helps compensate for his age.

But even with all those aspects, he's still barely clinging to the 6th and 7th D-man spot. Maybe it was his knee or maybe it was his age, but he lost his job in the Stanley Cup playoffs to Lilja. That says something.

Our defensive corps is definitely up in the air, though I'm confused why people don't have Lebda in the lineup. He's signed through 2010 and averaged 16 minutes a game in the regular season. He's obviously not a top pairing guy, but I can't see him losing his job completely to the kids or Chelios.

and this is off topic, but if Babcock thinks Ericsson is such a stud, why haven't I seen talk of him getting playing time on the Wings?

I would think its due to the log-jam of Red Wings Dmen that don't have the GR return options Ericsson does. With Meech, this is his year to be around for good or be moved. Quincey is pretty much getting close to that point as well.

Edit: (Kelsey) Grammar

Edited June 26, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25