Ducks

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Brian Burke:

God? No. Hackjob? No. Good GM? Yes.

Did he have a brutal year? Yes. Does that change the fact that he's a good GM? Not really.

Does every GM make mistakes? Yes.

Has Ken Holland made mistakes? Yes, one of which involved everyone's favorite whipping boy, Todd Bertuzzi.

[eva unit zero 271]

If memory serves me right - Burke made a promise to Bryzgalov @ the start of the 2007 training camp that he'd try to trade him to a team that was in need of a netminder...Well nobody was interested so Burke placed him on waivers, & the Yotes picked him up.

I commend Burke for keeping his promise, & for allowing a young/talented goalie an opportunity to show what he's got with another franchise...For me - I gained some respect for Burke.

The point I think that is being missed is that Bryzgalov is a better goaltender than Giguere. Younger and cheaper too. The point being that Burke should have capitalized on Giguere's trade value and shipped him out instead; even if Burke didn't get 'fair' value for Giguere he would have gotten a decent return, and certainly closer to 'fair' value than he got for Bryzgalov.

[Doggy 130]

The point I think that is being missed is that Bryzgalov is a better goaltender than Giguere. Younger and cheaper too. The point being that Burke should have capitalized on Giguere's trade value and shipped him out instead; even if Burke didn't get 'fair' value for Giguere he would have gotten a decent return, and certainly closer to 'fair' value than he got for Bryzgalov.

Giguere won a Stanley Cup in 2007 and you criticise Burke for not shipping him 6 months later.

[rage 24]

If memory serves me right - Burke made a promise to Bryzgalov @ the start of the 2007 training camp that he'd try to trade him to a team that was in need of a netminder...Well nobody was interested so Burke placed him on waivers, & the Yotes picked him up.

I commend Burke for keeping his promise, & for allowing a young/talented goalie an opportunity to show what he's got with another franchise...For me - I gained some respect for Burke.

If one ran a NHL Franchise on promises and being a nice guy, well, they would be the laughing stock....

[Duck Guy 86]

If one ran a NHL Franchise on promises and being a nice guy, well, they would be the laughing stock....

so what you are saying burke should have kept him if he could not get anything for him? He tried to get something for him and it did not work out..... If Bryz ended up staying and being #2 he would of demanded a trade since he was promised a #1 job and he wouldn't of cared how he played. Burke a guy who keeps his word to a great goalie that did good things for his team!!! who would of thought!@!@!!!@!@!@ Because he is the GM of the DEVIL DUCKS all that is wrong with the NHL

Edited June 29, 2008 by Duck Guy

[stevie for president 42]

Honestly, how much do you think burke could have gotten for bryzgalov? A back up goalie playing in front of one of the top defenses in the NHL. Also, when you have 3 goalies and you obviously arent trading a conn smythe winner and the guy that basically won you a cup months earlier and it wouldnt make sense to shop the 3rd stringer around with no trade value, that basically means its a buyers market for bryzgalov, because the league knows regardless he is leaving the team. Then, the teams that need a goalie probably pick 1st on the waiver wire, so a team like LA or phoenix could say they arent interested so they can get him for free. its riskier, but it could happen. Basically, long story short, dont criticize his move on bryzgalov. if he could have gotten something he would have.

As for trading giguire. If he did that and they lost in the 1st round, burke would never be employed as an NHL GM for the rest of his life.

[rage 24]

The whole "Burke earned my respect by keeping his word" stuff doesn't do it for me. Probably because I am biased...But I think I have a valid point at the same time.....

He should not have made that word if by keeping it, it hurt the org more than it helped. And IMO, it did just that.

That is what I am getting at..uugghhh.

[Doggy 130]

Burke needed to free up cap space. This is the main reason behind him putting Bryzgalov on waivers. It wasn't to keep his pinky promise.

[jawbreaker 0]

Some you are comparing Kenny, and Burke (a la Kenny makes mistakes too). Yes, Kenny made a mistake with Bertuzzi, but other than that he has been flawless in the past season. This is only one mistake, and 'cos of that we lost good prospect.

Burke on the other hand has made several mistakes. As the result he is taking down his team.

Bryzgalov case. I don't believe, that there were no offers. It's simple: you trade Bryzgalov, or go with him (read: trade Giguere). You DON'T give him away for free. Imagine... Kenny waives Howard.

I have one crazy idea: trade Pronger for great proven prospect and picks. That move will free some Cap Space (Chris is not getting younger, and he hasn't been that impressive lately).

Edited June 29, 2008 by jawbreaker

[Reds4Life 51]

Some you are comparing Kenny, and Burke (a la Kenny makes mistakes too). Yes, Kenny made a mistake with Bertuzzi, but other than that he has been flawless in the past season. This is only one mistake, and 'cos of that we lost good prospect.

Burke on the other hand has made several mistakes. As the result he is taking down his team.

Bryzgalov case. I don't believe, that there were no offers. It's simple: you trade Bryzgalov, or go with him (read: trade Giguere). You DON'T give him away for free. Imagine... Kenny waives Howard.

I have one crazy idea: trade Pronger for great proven prospect and picks. That move will free some Cap Space (Chris is not getting younger, and he hasn't been that impressive lately).

They have Giguere and Hiller, that is better combo than Giguere/Bryzgalov.

Giguere is also much better than Bryzgalov, I do not understand how can eva think Bryzgalov is better.

Trade Pronger? Why? He is the second best defenseman in the NHL, really brilliant idea to trade him for prospects and picks.

Burke is very good GM, one of the best. Some people on here are biased and write ridiculous things about him.

[jawbreaker 0]

They have Giguere and Hiller, that is better combo than Giguere/Bryzgalov.

Giguere is also much better than Bryzgalov, I do not understand how can eva think Bryzgalov is better.

Trade Pronger? Why? He is the second best defenseman in the NHL, really brilliant idea to trade him for prospects and picks.

Burke is very good GM, one of the best. Some people on here are biased and write ridiculous things about him.

The point is that you just can't have the best players based on their skills. You have to think about salaries. Ducks still have strong team, but they are in trouble, 'cause they have no Cap Space. That is why combo Bryzgalov/Hiller is better, than Giguere/Hiller. Bryzgalov is cheaper, but not so much worse goalie than Giguere.

Pronger trade is as I said crazy, but it has some logic. For example trade him for J.Johnson and O'Sullivan. This ain't bad. Btw, Chris Pronger is not second best Dman in the NHL. He is second best on his team (top 5 in the league).

You are telling that Burke is one of the best. Based on what? One Cup? These biased people are delivering facts, and you just say he is one of the best. Don't get me wrong, I think Brian Burke is above-average GM (who had really brutal year), but not in the TOP5.

[Dabura 12,232]

Some you are comparing Kenny, and Burke (a la Kenny makes mistakes too). Yes, Kenny made a mistake with Bertuzzi, but other than that he has been flawless in the past season. This is only one mistake, and 'cos of that we lost good prospect.

Burke on the other hand has made several mistakes. As the result he is taking down his team.

I wouldn't count Bertuzzi as his only mistake, but you're missing the point. No one's saying he's as good as Kenny.

[jawbreaker 0]

I wouldn't count Bertuzzi as his only mistake, but you're missing the point. No one's saying he's as good as Kenny.

Bertuzzi was his only major mistake in recent years. Burke has done 4-5 in the past year. If people say (not saying that on this board) that Burke is the best GM, then it's comparing him with Kenny, and other great GM's. So I'm not missing the point.

[edicius 3,269]

I would argue the only thing Burke did as far as Anaheim's Cup was to not destroy the roster until after they won. As it stands, the Ducks are not going back to the top any time soon after Burke's series of bad decisions this year that downgraded the talent on the team while removing youth in favor of aging veterans who won't be back.

I can't argue with any of that. Again, look at how Vancouver has fared as a result of Burke's decisions.

[Reds4Life 51]

The point is that you just can't have the best players based on their skills. You have to think about salaries. Ducks still have strong team, but they are in trouble, 'cause they have no Cap Space. That is why combo Bryzgalov/Hiller is better, than Giguere/Hiller. Bryzgalov is cheaper, but not so much worse goalie than Giguere.

Pronger trade is as I said crazy, but it has some logic. For example trade him for J.Johnson and O'Sullivan. This ain't bad. Btw, Chris Pronger is not second best Dman in the NHL. He is second best on his team (top 5 in the league).

You are telling that Burke is one of the best. Based on what? One Cup? These biased people are delivering facts, and you just say he is one of the best. Don't get me wrong, I think Brian Burke is above-average GM (who had really brutal year), but not in the TOP5.

Oh really? Then we should trade Rafalski. He makes 6 million and is not 2x better than Kronwall.

Geez. You pay for star players. Giguere is proven playoff goalie. Bryzgalov is averge goalie at best.

Burke came to Anaheim and built the best team in the league (07 Cup) in 2 years. If that is not one of the best, then I don't know. They won the Cup and still made the playoffs next year, neither Canes or Oilers managed to do that after Canes Cup in 06. I hate the Ducks, and Burke, but he is one of the best. Name any othe GM who came to some team, completly changed team and won Cup in 2 years. Good luck finding one.

Holland is better than Burke, that's about it.

edit:

As for Pronger, he is the 2nd best defenseman in the NHL. I totally see how Ducks trade their best player to divisional rival LA for overrated Jack Johnson and O'Sullivan. This is not fantasy league, you know, right?

Edited June 29, 2008 by Reds4Life

[jawbreaker 0]

Oh really? Then we should trade Rafalski. He makes 6 million and is not 2x better than Kronwall.

Geez. You pay for star players. Giguere is proven playoff goalie. Bryzgalov is averge goalie at best.

Burke came to Anaheim and built the best team in the league (07 Cup) in 2 years. If that is not one of the best, then I don't know. They won the Cup and still made the playoffs next year, neither Canes or Oilers managed to do that after Canes Cup in 06. I hate the Ducks, and Burke, but he is one of the best. Holland is better than Burke, that's about it.

We have plenty of money to spend, Ducks don't. I can bet that Burke would die now to get couple of millions extra space. Bryzgalov is better than average: he has proven that. By the way... one of the reasons that we can afford our great D, and Dats + Z is that our goalies are cheap. Yeah lets trade Rafalski, 'cos we only need two great D's. You only need one great/very good goalie, but your top4 better be solid. So comparing Ducks situation with Rafalski-Kronner is very wrong.

And please, don't compare Ducks with Canes and Oils. Very different teams, and problems. Ducks are still TOP4 team in the West.

[jawbreaker 0]

edit:

As for Pronger, he is the 2nd best defenseman in the NHL. I totally see how Ducks trade their best player to divisional rival LA for overrated Jack Johnson and O'Sullivan. This is not fantasy league, you know, right?

It's a possibility to trade Pronger for some young talent. This LA thing was just an example. Teams do trade their star players. Do you really believe that Pronger is clearly better than Scotty? Plus, this season Pronger wasn't 2nd best D in the NHL.

[Reds4Life 51]

It's a possibility to trade Pronger for some young talent. This LA thing was just an example. Teams do trade their star players. Do you really believe that Pronger is clearly better than Scotty? Plus, this season Pronger wasn't 2nd best D in the NHL.

Of course he is.

And yes, Ducks are still top4 team in the West - thanks to Burke.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Of course he is.

And yes, Ducks are still top4 team in the West - thanks to Burke.

Did you guys miss Eva's post in the last page showing how many acquisitions Burke made which helped the 2007 year?

I want to know what Burke did to make the Ducks so unbelievable because all I really see here is "he won the cup in 07 which makes him good"

[Reds4Life 51]

Did you guys miss Eva's post in the last page showing how many acquisitions Burke made which helped the 2007 year?

I want to know what Burke did to make the Ducks so unbelievable because all I really see here is "he won the cup in 07 which makes him good"

So building winning team does not make him good? Since when? I mean everyone is a smartass after the move was made.

Burke is one of the best GMs just look at his work in Anaheim. He re-built poor team and made Ducks elite team in the NHL.

Name any other GM (Holland does not count) who is better than Burke.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Reds4Life

[Doc Holiday 0]

So building winning team does not make him good? Since when? I mean everyone is a smartass after the move was made.

Burke is one of the best GMs just look at his work in Anaheim. He re-built poor team and made Ducks elite team in the NHL.

Name any other GM (Holland does not count) who is better than Burke.

You say he built but what did he honestly build? I'm not saying Burke is bad I'm asking for some proof on how good Burke is besides a Stanley Cup ring. A poster here showed maybe 3 or 4 guys that Burke was able to get that made some impact.

[egroen 384]

Calder was a total bust here.

So was Lang, considering he was leading the league in points when he was traded to Detroit.

They did not really hamstring the team in any way, and they looked like very good deals at the time... just looking back it was not the best move.

The whole Hasek/Cujoe merry-go-round was pretty ugly as well.

Key difference between Holland's and Burke's mistakes -- Burke seems to now be digging himself out of a hole, throwing away and buying out assets just to stay under the cap. Meanwhile, Holland's mistakes quietly went away and he was able to keep adding assets to the puzzle w/o any steps backward.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Calder was a total bust here.

So was Lang, considering he was leading the league in points when he was traded to Detroit.

They did not really hamstring the team in any way, and they looked like very good deals at the time... just looking back it was not the best move.

The whole Hasek/Cujoe merry-go-round was pretty ugly as well.

Key difference between Holland's and Burke's mistakes -- Burke seems to now be digging himself out of a hole, throwing away and buying out assets just to stay under the cap. Meanwhile, Holland's mistakes quietly went away and he was able to keep adding assets to the puzzle w/o any steps backward.

The Calder move was actually a Jason Williams salary dump. If Calder worked out, great, but mainly it was to get rid of another year of being stuck with Williams at $1 million+ (can't remember his contract exactly).

As for Lang, a guy who scores 62 points in his first full season with the team isn't exactly a bust, especially as a 2nd liner playing 16 minutes a game.

There's also the playoffs in '04 when he had 9 points in 12 games when are big guns couldn't seem to find the net. Or '06 when he had a point a game for 6 games, when once again the team couldn't score. Lang wasn't the greatest player in the world, but he certainly wasn't a bust. Chicago paying him $4 million after watching his totals decline the last year in Detroit is a helluva a lot closer to being a bust than when Holland signed him.

[egroen 384]

Considering Lang was basically Fedorov's replacement and was leading the league in points when he was signed, I would still say he was a bust depite still being "pretty good". I did not have visions of "pretty good" when that trade was announced.

But again, these are not earth-shattering mistakes, and Holland has consistently been able to move forward and keep all the keepers.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Considering Lang was basically Fedorov's replacement and was leading the league in points when he was signed, I would still say he was a bust depite still being "pretty good". I did not have visions of "pretty good" when that trade was announced.

But again, these are not earth-shattering mistakes, and Holland has consistently been able to move forward and keep all the keepers.

I guess I never really expected Lang to be anywhere near a replacement for Fedorov. I never got the impression the Wings expected him to be a first line center, and think he met expectations reasonably well the first couple seasons as a 2nd liner. Again, not great, but wouldn't call him a bust.

either way, I agree that these were not earth shattering and Holland has kept things together, whereas Burke had a season of major mistakes.