Wings out of picture for Sundin, Hossa, Rolston

[kylee 727]

so Rolston is off the board.

most likely Hossa is off the board is he truly rejected the offer made by the Wings.

sooo

im still interested in:

Naslund (no one seems to be talking about him)

Bertuzzi

Sundin

ill be happy with any of these.

my first choice out of these three is Sundin, Naslund, and then Bertuzzi.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

It sounds like everyone is dying more to make money than win a Cup. The exception may be Sundin, but I'm beginning to wonder how much he cares about winning the Cup.

How is Mats "I'm not going to give a discount to anyone" Sundin not looking to cash in? Hes already publicly stated money is a factor.

[norrisnick 1]

Then where do they find the room? Tell me I would love to hear it. And you're right there are no decisions laid out by Ken Holland for the future. I have never heard him say "We've got a good cap situation this year but it's 09-10 where it's a little tighter because Zetterberg and Franzen will have new contracts." Thats not a direct quote but pretty close. How do the Wings pull it off? How do they not plan ahead with stuff like this? Lets say they sign Hossa for 6.5mil, just making up a number. Tell me how they get Filppula, Hank and Franzen signed and under the cap for 09-10? And don't give me the crap that the cap could go up because right now you don't know what it would even if it did go up.

But that doesn't mean he just doesn't sign Z or Franzen or Filppula. That's absurd. Unless Franzen wants Malone money in which case we should let him walk whether we sign Hossa or not.

Cut corners with guys like Draper/Holmstrom/Maltby/Lilja/Samuelsson and bring in cheaper kids and sign Z when his contract ends and the new cap is announced.

You do pretty much anything but give up core guys that carry the team.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I'm sorry but is there some sort of age requirement to be dying to win a cup? This contract Hossa signs will put him with a team for the rest of his prime, and possibly beyond. Of course hes going to be considering going to a team that is competitive year after year.

And why would he have already signed in Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh had plenty of question marks surrounding their team when Hossa was asked to re-sign. Why on earth would he not investigate all his options? Is there some crystal ball you have that says Pittsburgh is guaranteed the cup next year?

Their chances are better than most teams in the East.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Their chances are better than most teams in the East.

And most teams in the East means there are other avenues to investigate..

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I don't think that's why we lost. The point I was making is that many Cup winner make no changes the next year, and fall on their faces.

...of course, not counting 1996-97 & 1997-98. I don't recall changes in the off season, oh besides getting rid of Vernon...

[YoungGuns1340 1]

But that doesn't mean he just doesn't sign Z or Franzen or Filppula. That's absurd. Unless Franzen wants Malone money in which case we should let him walk whether we sign Hossa or not.

Cut corners with guys like Draper/Holmstrom/Maltby/Lilja/Samuelsson and bring in cheaper kids and sign Z when his contract ends and the new cap is announced.

You do pretty much anything but give up core guys that carry the team.

The Wings wouldnt trade the first 3. I wouldnt be surprised to see Cleary go before any of those guys.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

...if we're just going by guys 'dying' to win a cup. We could get a player in that state of mind named Owen Nolan. He's pretty much replace Drake (if not a little bit of an upgrade) and he would cost pennies compared to Hossa or Sundin...

...I may be having a brain fart, but I don't recall Nolan winning a Cup yet...

...how motivated would he be? Would he be considered 'dying' to win a Cup?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

...if we're just going by guys 'dying' to win a cup. We could get a player in that state of mind named Owen Nolan. He's pretty much replace Drake (if not a little bit of an upgrade) and he would cost pennies compared to Hossa or Sundin...

...I may be having a brain fart, but I don't recall Nolan winning a Cup yet...

...how motivated would he be? Would he be considered 'dying' to win a Cup?

Yeah. The only reason we're intersted in Hossa is because hes gunning for a cup. Undoubtedly it has nothing to do with that whole "All-star winger" thing...

Its only a bonus that this guy wants the cup, and proved he'd play hard for it in the playoffs.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Yeah. The only reason we're intersted in Hossa is because hes gunning for a cup. Undoubtedly it has nothing to do with that whole "All-star winger" thing...

Its only a bonus that this guy wants the cup, and proved he'd play hard for it in the playoffs.

...I'm just worried about throwing 7 million to Hossa when you have Z gonna make 7 or more, Dats already makes almost 7, Lids makes over 7 and Rafi makes 6. If you just average 7 for all thats $35 million for 5 guys. And if they make a pitch for Miller, thats about 8 more million or more!

[therock48880 14]

Their chances are better than most teams in the East.

Not sure I really agree with that. The Pens have some holes heading into next year. Obviously, they'll be pretty good, but I wouldn't list them as a cup favorite. To be honest, and I said this during the Finals, I think three, possibly four teams from the west would have beaten the Pens this year in the finals. And I don't think they will be as good next year as they were this year.

[norrisnick 1]

...I'm just worried about throwing 7 million to Hossa when you have Z gonna make 7 or more, Dats already makes almost 7, Lids makes over 7 and Rafi makes 6. If you just average 7 for all thats $35 million for 5 guys. And if they make a pitch for Miller, thats about 8 more million or more!

That's the beauty of having a group of skaters that good. You don't spend more than $1-2M on a goalie.

[Zymz 0]

Hossa signing with the Wings for less money just to win a Cup would be the single dumbest career move he could ever make. The guy is 29 yrs old and will never be worth more than he is now. He's got about 10 yrs (barring injury) left to win a Cup, so why wouldn't he sign with an up-and-comer, turn them into a contender AND make the big bucks, all while having only a slightly less chance at winning it all.

I would love nothing more than Hossa to be a Wing (he's always been one of my favs), but it just makes no sense.

You also have to take the NHLPA into account - which is probably why Sundin is hesitant to sign for cheap - they're going to pressure the stars hard to take the biggest contracts out there.

[HenryMalredo 2]

...if we're just going by guys 'dying' to win a cup. We could get a player in that state of mind named Owen Nolan. He's pretty much replace Drake (if not a little bit of an upgrade) and he would cost pennies compared to Hossa or Sundin...

...I may be having a brain fart, but I don't recall Nolan winning a Cup yet...

...how motivated would he be? Would he be considered 'dying' to win a Cup?

I'm not seeing this "bring veteran in who has never won the Cup = success". I mean, I guess it worked with Wendel Clark, Stumpy Thomas, and Curtis Joseph................. I know with Drake, this was considered the main thing, but until the playoffs, he didn't really show all that much, and no one really got nostalgic about him until the finals.

On Nolan, I believe he rejected a trade to Detroit a while back when he was with Phoenix. Maybe things have changed since then, but does anyone know if this is correct?

Edited July 2, 2008 by HenryMalredo

[norrisnick 1]

Hossa signing with the Wings for less money just to win a Cup would be the single dumbest career move he could ever make. The guy is 29 yrs old and will never be worth more than he is now. He's got about 10 yrs (barring injury) left to win a Cup, so why wouldn't he sign with an up-and-comer, turn them into a contender AND make the big bucks, all while having only a slightly less chance at winning it all.

I would love nothing more than Hossa to be a Wing (he's always been one of my favs), but it just makes no sense.

You also have to take the NHLPA into account - which is probably why Sundin is hesitant to sign for cheap - they're going to pressure the stars hard to take the biggest contracts out there.

Financial move. There is no way signing with Detroit hurts his career.

The NHLPA has no teeth otherwise Nick would be making $10M/yr elsewhere.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I'm not seeing this "bring veteran in who has never won the Cup = success". I mean, I guess it worked with Wendel Clark, Stumpy Thomas, and Curtis Joseph................. I know with Drake, this was considered the main thing, but until the playoffs, he didn't really show all that much, and no one really got nostalgic about him until the finals.

On Nolan, I believe he rejected a trade to Detroit a while back when he was with Phoenix. Maybe things have changed since then, but does anyone no if this is correct?

...I agree as well. If you are gonna add someone, why not address a need, instead of a high profile player? Fedorov address a need, Bertuzzi or Naslund address a need. They are all upgrades to Drake and wouldn't cost too much to have for a season. All would prosper with our talented centers and be a better offensive option than Drake (not that Drake was considered an offensive option.)

...forget the high dollar UFA. Go small, mid level. Bertuzzi, Naslund, Fedorov, Shanny maybe or nobody. Helm could easily replace Drake's minutes...

...but it seems that Holland is going to wait a see what Hossa and Sundin do, then go after the likes of a Fedorov or Naslund. Hopefully, they're still there by time he comes calling. Then again, does it really matter? Even with all the movement today, nobody really bettered themselves enough to take the Wings out. The only way the Wings don't repeat (even with the current roster) is if they beat themselves (or injuries.)

Edited July 2, 2008 by LeftWinger

[CanadaBoy 151]

...I agree as well. If you are gonna add someone, why not address a need, instead of a high profile player? Fedorov address a need, Bertuzzi or Naslund address a need. They are all upgrades to Drake and wouldn't cost too much to have for a season. All would prosper with our talented centers and be a better offensive option than Drake (not that Drake was considered an offensive option.)

...forget the high dollar UFA. Go small, mid level. Bertuzzi, Naslund, Fedorov, Shanny maybe or nobody. Helm could easily replace Drake's minutes...

Agreed, our best chance signing are Bertuzzi, Naslund, Fedorov, Shanny.

We should forget about Sundin and Hossa

[VM1138 1,921]

Lest we forget....Stuart was reported gone a mere hour before his re-signing was annoucned, so I'm only considering players "off the table" when they sign with another team, ala Rolston.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'm not seeing this "bring veteran in who has never won the Cup = success". I mean, I guess it worked with Wendel Clark, Stumpy Thomas, and Curtis Joseph................. I know with Drake, this was considered the main thing, but until the playoffs, he didn't really show all that much, and no one really got nostalgic about him until the finals.

On Nolan, I believe he rejected a trade to Detroit a while back when he was with Phoenix. Maybe things have changed since then, but does anyone know if this is correct?

First of all, you can't compare teams of the pasts to the current team. The players are people, and they all have different sensitivities. Second, you're not in the locker-room so you have no idea how nostalgic anyone was or what they were feeling. Third, Nick Lidstrom saying in the presser post Cup win that he had knew since round 1 of the playoffs that he would pass the cup of to Drake first, should the Red Wings have won it, pretty much disproves your point.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

...I'm just worried about throwing 7 million to Hossa when you have Z gonna make 7 or more, Dats already makes almost 7, Lids makes over 7 and Rafi makes 6. If you just average 7 for all thats $35 million for 5 guys. And if they make a pitch for Miller, thats about 8 more million or more!

No way the Wings would throw silly money at Miller like that. No reason to have a stud goaltender when you have a balanced team in all other aspects.

[rage 24]

...I agree as well. If you are gonna add someone, why not address a need, instead of a high profile player?

devil's advocate

Hossa is exactly what the Wings "need". He is a franschice WINGER and a Sniper!!

Who on the Red Wings roster is a scoring winger??

Please name the Natural Centers on our team and then ask yourself if we need another center..

[Aussie_Wing 354]

I've got to be honest, I want Bertuzzi back. He wouldn't cost much and he'd be really hungry this time around.

[RWK23 0]

I've got to be honest, I want Bertuzzi back. He wouldn't cost much and he'd be really hungry this time around.

The more I think about it, the more I agree. I mean, I'm not crazy about the idea, but he would come cheap and he's still an effective player when healthy. I'm not a huge fan of the guy, mostly because of the Moore incident, but he can help this team. He doesn't really address the second line winger that I wanted coming into the offseason, but he can help. If we got him, I'd throw out something like this:

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Cleary - Draper - Maltby

Bertuzzi - Helm - Hudler

I'd consider it. I mean, I'm not as dead set against it as some people on this board -- whose opinion I understand.

[sjradio 0]

...of course, not counting 1996-97 & 1997-98. I don't recall changes in the off season, oh besides getting rid of Vernon...

There was Sergei holding out for most of the year...

[rage 24]

The more I think about it, the more I agree. I mean, I'm not crazy about the idea, but he would come cheap and he's still an effective player when healthy. I'm not a huge fan of the guy, mostly because of the Moore incident, but he can help this team. He doesn't really address the second line winger that I wanted coming into the offseason, but he can help. If we got him, I'd throw out something like this:

Datsyuk - Zetterberg - Holmstrom

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Cleary - Draper - Maltby

Bertuzzi - Helm - Hudler

I'd consider it. I mean, I'm not as dead set against it as some people on this board -- whose opinion I understand.

Sorry to say, Todd Bertuzzi will not be playing the 4th line for any team.