uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 What are you talking about? At what point? Do you mean the game where the Red Wings beat the Blues 5-0 and King was a healthy scratch? Was it that game? There was still Jackman, Mayers and Walker out trying to cause trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 C'mon, you and I both know that's not going to happen. Early third period, Wings have a lead on the road and Babs is going to bench Dats, Z, and Hossa? Their minutes would be cut, no doubt, but to say they wouldn't be on the ice is silly. BTW, I'd take Carcillo too, for the right price. The "problem" is that the Hossa signing has the Wings up against the cap. You're right, ideally, a big fourth liner that could fight and contribute offensively would be great, but that's going to be difficult to pull off. I'd take Downey at 500k over a guy like Laraque at 1.2 in the current financial situation the Wings have. Late in the game when the Wings have a 5 goal ROAD lead where they dont have the advantage of second line change and you've got King roaming, along with Jackman, Walker, etc? Yeah actually I would expect them to see fewer minutes. Especially when the risk of injury would be high AND we'd get railed for "running up the score". Also, keep in mind your little scenario here is based on the hypothetical that the Wings would NOT have a fighter (class regardless) in the lineup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 Yeah. Because you either need an intimidating guy off the ice, or you need a guy who can respond AND play 4th line minutes on the ice. There is all of ONE player in the entire league who could play 80 games a year and pull 4th line minuts while being a heavyweight on this deep Detroit squad. And hes signed to a 3 year contract already. So, as such, you either go with the best of the best to sit it out, or you go with a MW or even a semi-enforcing agitator who can play 80 games and take care of the Tuckers, Tootoos, Averys, etc. I think the bolded part is where you and I differ. I feel a guy's presence on the bench alone can have an impact. If you are playing hockey and everyone on the bench is a 5'4" person would you be deterred from going after their best player? On the other hand, if the other team had a guy who was as big as you (or bigger) and is a known fighter, would that deter you? Personally, I think it would deter a lot of guys from going after the skill guys. Obviously, you don't agree. Plus, numerous Wings players (Schneider, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc) in the past couple years have talked about the value of a guy that can fight. They never once talked about having a guy that could fight and play regular minutes. There simply aren't any proberts out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 Late in the game when the Wings have a 5 goal ROAD lead where they dont have the advantage of second line change and you've got King roaming, along with Jackman, Walker, etc? Yeah actually I would expect them to see fewer minutes. Especially when the risk of injury would be high AND we'd get railed for "running up the score". Also, keep in mind your little scenario here is based on the hypothetical that the Wings would NOT have a fighter (class regardless) in the lineup. True. But I just don't think there are many guys out there that fit your criteria. Also, notice, in my post I said that they would also see fewer minutes. But they would still be out there occasionally and I wouldn't want them getting run without any fear of retribution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I think the bolded part is where you and I differ. I feel a guy's presence on the bench alone can have an impact. If you are playing hockey and everyone on the bench is a 5'4" person would you be deterred from going after their best player? On the other hand, if the other team had a guy who was as big as you (or bigger) and is a known fighter, would that deter you? Personally, I think it would deter a lot of guys from going after the skill guys. Obviously, you don't agree. Plus, numerous Wings players (Schneider, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc) in the past couple years have talked about the value of a guy that can fight. They never once talked about having a guy that could fight and play regular minutes. There simply aren't any proberts out there. I never said a guys presence on the bench couldnt have an impact. Go back and read my posts. Where you and I differ is that I think if you have a guy on the bench, he should have a bigger reputation than what Downey carries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dump-N-Thump Report post Posted July 5, 2008 The thing is though, Guys with a reputation you'll have 1000 people here saying 'DETROIT HAS MORE CLASS THEN TO SIGN HIM". I still dont know why you guys are arguing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I still dont know why you guys are arguing. Its the internet. Its what its for!...that and porn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dump-N-Thump Report post Posted July 5, 2008 UK speaks the truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 True. But I just don't think there are many guys out there that fit your criteria. Also, notice, in my post I said that they would also see fewer minutes. But they would still be out there occasionally and I wouldn't want them getting run without any fear of retribution. I dont particularly have a criteria. My only criteria is that I want more than Downey. Either I want Downey AND a guy like Boogard or McGrattan or Ivanens, or Id want a guy like Carcillo (pretty sure hes taken on some heavies. I know he threw down with Ivanans..), Neil, Laraque, Tollefson, etc. Obviously we dont need more Dmen like Ole, but you get the point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 The thing is though, Guys with a reputation you'll have 1000 people here saying 'DETROIT HAS MORE CLASS THEN TO SIGN HIM". I still dont know why you guys are arguing. Haha thats pretty true. Thats kind of why Im bummed we didnt get Laraque. He seems to fit the Red Wing enforcer mould but in the end he went for more than we could afford.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
therock48880 14 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I dont particularly have a criteria. My only criteria is that I want more than Downey. Either I want Downey AND a guy like Boogard or McGrattan or Ivanens, or Id want a guy like Carcillo (pretty sure hes taken on some heavies. I know he threw down with Ivanans..), Neil, Laraque, Tollefson, etc. Obviously we dont need more Dmen like Ole, but you get the point. I thought you said you wanted them playing regular fourth line minutes. I admit, I didn't read all seven pages of posts. I thought you were saying to let Downey go and not get someone else to take that role. So, then, I think you and I actually agree, to an extent. My point is, that Downey at 500k is much more realistic at this time than any of the guys you mentioned due to salary cap issues. I'm not sure of their salaries, though. Personally, I'd like Downey and a great big, fightening bastard to be playing at the same time. But I realize that most likely won't happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 Its the internet. Its what its for!...that and porn. There's porn on the internet? Where? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I think the bolded part is where you and I differ. I feel a guy's presence on the bench alone can have an impact. If you are playing hockey and everyone on the bench is a 5'4" person would you be deterred from going after their best player? On the other hand, if the other team had a guy who was as big as you (or bigger) and is a known fighter, would that deter you? Personally, I think it would deter a lot of guys from going after the skill guys. Obviously, you don't agree. Plus, numerous Wings players (Schneider, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc) in the past couple years have talked about the value of a guy that can fight. They never once talked about having a guy that could fight and play regular minutes. There simply aren't any proberts out there. I still don't buy that argument. You're trying to tell me some meathead is going to be afraid of Downey or whoever? Horses***. Back in the day Bob ******* Probert actually on the ICE didn't deter that McGuire kid from fighing Yzerman. Enforcers don't deter s***. They can only react, and by that time it's not like they can change anything anyway. Guys like Tootoo and Avery couldn't care less whether some goon wants to fight them for being asshats. If they aren't asshats they don't get paid. That's a hell of a lot more convincing than getting punched in the head a couple times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I thought you said you wanted them playing regular fourth line minutes. I admit, I didn't read all seven pages of posts. I thought you were saying to let Downey go and not get someone else to take that role. So, then, I think you and I actually agree, to an extent. My point is, that Downey at 500k is much more realistic at this time than any of the guys you mentioned due to salary cap issues. I'm not sure of their salaries, though. Personally, I'd like Downey and a great big, fightening bastard to be playing at the same time. But I realize that most likely won't happen. Most of whats available on the free market right now is crap. So I would think any viable enforcer would come via trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 5, 2008 I still don't buy that argument. You're trying to tell me some meathead is going to be afraid of Downey or whoever? Horses***. Back in the day Bob ******* Probert actually on the ICE didn't deter that McGuire kid from fighing Yzerman. Enforcers don't deter s***. They can only react, and by that time it's not like they can change anything anyway. Guys like Tootoo and Avery couldn't care less whether some goon wants to fight them for being asshats. If they aren't asshats they don't get paid. That's a hell of a lot more convincing than getting punched in the head a couple times. But he didn't go after Yzerman again... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted July 5, 2008 The wings also picked up an enforcer in case you havent heard =) I jest i jest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dump-N-Thump Report post Posted July 5, 2008 Hossa meant all bussiness right there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,803 Report post Posted July 6, 2008 (edited) The MLive article is around here somewhere, but Holland directly says in the article that Lilja is an insurance policy, and that they'll look to move him if the young kids perform well enough to get the spot over Lilja. Thats VERY likely. Which is why a Lilja (1.25M) for Neil (1.1M) deal would make sense. Although GMR would likely stop being a wings fan... Didn't you hear? I'm supposedly a Thrasher fan as another poster so eloquently put. Seriously, though, I'd just have to find a new player to heavily market for my amusement. However, why would we trade away a fighter who went undefeated last year, and won all his fights without even having to throw a punch? Edited July 6, 2008 by GMRwings1983 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Dump-N-Thump Report post Posted July 6, 2008 I call it now, Kopecky will have 3 fights this season. - CBJ - Chimera.... Wild - Burns..... Aves - McCormick..... You heard it first fight fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 6, 2008 The wings also picked up an enforcer in case you havent heard =) I jest i jest Hossa beat the s*** out of him there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted July 6, 2008 There was still Jackman, Mayers and Walker out trying to cause trouble. I HATE Jackman. What a piece of cheapshot, after-the-whistle piece of s***. Oh. Never mind. You weren't really talking just about him. Thanks anyway for letting me vent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detroit4life 0 Report post Posted July 7, 2008 The wings also picked up an enforcer in case you havent heard =) I jest i jest Hell, that earns my respect. Welcome aboard, "Bloody Mary". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted July 7, 2008 ...ugh! Why do you all have McCarty man love? Get over him, he's washed up, he's done, he's useless! Get over the cinderella story for pete's sake! It's not like he was any help at all in gettign us the Cup! Aaron Downey is by far the better person to fill the 13th forward position, he proved that last year and got snubbed in the playoffs. Luckily he played enough regular season games to get his on the Cup and what about McCarty? He comes in, plays a few games in the regular season, gives away a lot of pucks in the playoffs, ices it when he's not giving it away, then gets HIS name on the Cup! For What? Dude, sign McCarty to the Rapids contract, Downey is the far better player and fighter right now... Yeah, Holland, Babcock, MacLean, McLellan, and the rest of those guys are such morons. I can't believe that they don't know who should get contracts, who their best players are, or who should be playing in what games/circumstances. They must all just be so much "man love" love for McCarty that they can't be objective. I can't believe that their love didn't overflow to the point that they put him on the first line or maybe even pulled Ozgood and let him play in goal. I wish we could get some people up there who knew how to put a team together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted July 7, 2008 You should swear more. It makes you look intelligent. :clap: :hysterical: :clap: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueMonk 102 Report post Posted July 7, 2008 This quote was taken from the Colorado game earlier this season when Lidstrom got cheap shotted by Laperriere and Downey came after Lappy: "It's great to see," Zetterberg said. "I think all of us got a little extra energy when he did that and it was a great fight. It changed the momentum back to our side. It doesn't happen that often, but now we've had four fights this year (Drake has the other three). It's good, it belongs in the game. The fans like it and we like it, too." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
