Kenny has some work left to do

[uk_redwing 495]

Actually the Downey think worked, so I wouldn't bring that up if I were you since it defeats your lousy argument.

Downey played in the regular season and did his job, and in the playoffs he wasn't needed because of the opposition that we faced. That's perfectly fine with me.

I think when most people scream for an enforcer, they want a guy who can play in the regular season rather than the playoffs. Of course, then the crazy anti-fighting posts like the one you just made come out and destroy the whole point of arguing. Our winning a championship had nothing to do with an enforcer being or not being in the lineup. When will some posters here get that through their thick heads. You act like Downey wasn't even part of the team this season.

We just want toughness on the team because it's funner to watch and every other team has an enforcer. If you don't like fighting in sports, go watch basketball or baseball.

You should become a member of team hockeyfights.com

[norrisnick 1]

Hmm...this whole site has gone back into "we dont need an enforcer" mode.

Fair enough...wonder how coincidental it is the first time we carry an enforcer since the last time we won the cup is the first time we win it again? Hmm...I wonder...

You're going to have to clear a few things up about that second part. If you're counting McCarty as that enforcer in '02 why not in '03 or '04?

[jvxp 0]

Key Point #1: Sign Flip 2 year deal

#2: Sign Mac and Downey to one way deals

#3: Make Chelios retire

#4: Package Samuelsson with Hudler for prospects

MacLean, McLellan .... Potato, Potaaaatoe. Oops. Thanks for the correction.

I agree with the bold print big time !!

[norrisnick 1]

So by not wanting an enforcer you're somehow a better fan are you?

So lets see, you're a better fan by not wanting to have our star players protected throughtout the regular season? You're a better fan because you'd rather have that right wing 4th line spot taken up by someone who could score 4 maybe 5 meaningless goals in the season rather than someone who can ensure those on the top lines are in shape to be able to produce the 20+ goals that actually matter?

Hmm...sure.

Enforcers don't protect anything. If they did, they'd be called protectors instead of enforcers. All they can do is react. There is no prevention involved.

[Doggy 130]

He might not be the #1 prospect but he'll be in the NHL faster than all of the above.

When Babcock, Bowman and Holland all say he's a top 4-dman, you know he's good. Babcock in particular seems to love this kid and we've all seen what that means. When Samulesson can score 5 goals in 22 playoff games and continue to skate on the 2nd line, imagine what his man-crush on Ericsson will do for him.

Mursak sputtered greatly last season and Howard hasn't progressed the way they'd like. Kindl will be on the team in the next 2 seasons whereas Smith is probably 4 years away.

Ryno also went back home for various reasons. Who knows how he pans out?

Abdelkader is going to be a great checking forward but nothing more than that.

At this point, Ericsson probably has more NHL shine to him than all of the above players mentioned.

Who cares when they make the NHL. Being older does not make you a better prospect. In fact, the reverse is closer to the truth.

All our prospects have weaknesses, and Ericsson is no exception. I disagree with almost all of your post. I am excited by Ericsson but it's not like he'll be the next Kronwall. They say he'll be a top 4. Well great. Kindl and Smith are projected to be better.

Ryno and Mursak are also projected to be top 6 forwards in their prime. None of this is certain. No prospect is, but to say Ericsson is widely regarded as our top prospect couldn't be further from the truth. And that is all I'm saying.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Enforcers don't protect anything. If they did, they'd be called protectors instead of enforcers. All they can do is react. There is no prevention involved.

Enforcers don't react to anything. If they did, they'd be called reactors.

See how easy that is?

1. To compel observance of or obedience to: enforce a law.

2. To impose (a kind of behavior, for example): enforce military discipline.

3. To give force to; reinforce:

[Guest Crymson]

Enforcers don't react to anything. If they did, they'd be called reactors.

See how easy that is?

1. To compel observance of or obedience to: enforce a law.

2. To impose (a kind of behavior, for example): enforce military discipline.

3. To give force to; reinforce:

Just because they're called 'enforcers' does not mean that they comply with the dictionary definition of that word.

In any event, the term applied to them is applied to them in the hockey sense, not in the academic sense.

Actually the Downey think worked, so I wouldn't bring that up if I were you since it defeats your lousy argument.

Downey played in the regular season and did his job, and in the playoffs he wasn't needed because of the opposition that we faced. That's perfectly fine with me.

I think when most people scream for an enforcer, they want a guy who can play in the regular season rather than the playoffs. Of course, then the crazy anti-fighting posts like the one you just made come out and destroy the whole point of arguing. Our winning a championship had nothing to do with an enforcer being or not being in the lineup. When will some posters here get that through their thick heads. You act like Downey wasn't even part of the team this season.

We just want toughness on the team because it's funner to watch and every other team has an enforcer. If you don't like fighting in sports, go watch basketball or baseball.

The playoffs are where it matters, no? We have ALWAYS had success in the regular season, enforcer or not. Playoffs have been where the trouble is. Downey did not play in the playoffs this year, and McCarty is certainly not of the 'enforcer' type anymore. We won the playoffs without Downey playing.

I don't deny that Downey was personally a great influence in the locker room, but this was because of his character off the ice as opposed to his role on the ice.

The implication that we won the Cup because of an enforcer who didn't even play is very leaky. We have certainly lost in the past whilst carrying enforcers, and we had no bonafide enforcer in 2002. This line of argument is akin to the argument that some made a couple of years ago that we couldn't win without Yzerman; of course, we'd lost MANY times when Yzerman was on the team.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Crymson

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Downey and Mac are NOT enforcers. Enforcers do not survive on a successful NHL team because they take penalties and generally do not score or contribute offensively.

Downey and Mac are Anti-Enforcers. They are there for the sole purpose of reacting to cheapshots and taking on other fighters if the Wings need a boost. They do not go looking for fights with other enforcers as enforcers do.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Enforcers don't protect anything. If they did, they'd be called protectors instead of enforcers. All they can do is react. There is no prevention involved.

Then why does every team have one and why have enforecers existed for decades?

Oh, that's right, I forgot it's because everyone is stupid except for the modern day Wings.

[norrisnick 1]

Then why does every team have one and why have enforecers existed for decades?

Oh, that's right, I forgot it's because everyone is stupid except for the modern day Wings.

Beats me.

I wouldn't go so far as to say stupid, but I will go so far as to say that Bowman (who was the driving force behind the passivity of the Wings) is smarter than everyone else.

[Guest Crymson]

Then why does every team have one and why have enforecers existed for decades?

Oh, that's right, I forgot it's because everyone is stupid except for the modern day Wings.

The Wings appear to have won more Cups than any other team in the last 15 years. Yes, I'd say they're obviously doing something better than other teams.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

The Wings appear to have won more Cups than any other team in the last 15 years. Yes, I'd say they're obviously doing something better than other teams.

And in your infinite wisdom you believe that not dressing enforcers is the reason they've won, which BTW would be a stupid argument since we had Kocur and McCarty for 2 of those Cup Finals.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Just because they're called 'enforcers' does not mean that they comply with the dictionary definition of that word.

In any event, the term applied to them is applied to them in the hockey sense, not in the academic sense.

And the hockey sense seems to match closer with the academic sense. Enforcers are there to make sure people don't mess with their star players. That's why Crosby doesn't get touched and why other big name players don't get touched. When they react, they keep people from doing it at a later stage.

[chrisdetroit 189]

http://www.redwingscentral.com/prospects/

Nowhere except LGW?

Hockey's Future has him as #6 As of Spring 2008

Top Prospects

Jimmy Howard, G

Jakub Kindl, D

Jan Mursak, LW

Justin Abdelkader, LW

Brendan Smith, D

Jonathan Ericsson, D

Johan Ryno, RW

Kyle Quincey, D

Dick Axelsson, LW

Darren Helm, C

Daniel Larsson, G

Cory Emmerton, C

Joakim Andersson, C

Mattias Ritola, C

Evan McGrath, C

Logan Pyett, D

Randy Cameron, C

Zach Torquato, C

Hockeys Future Website

[chrisdetroit 189]

He might not be the #1 prospect but he'll be in the NHL faster than all of the above.

When Babcock, Bowman and Holland all say he's a top 4-dman, you know he's good. Babcock in particular seems to love this kid and we've all seen what that means. When Samulesson can score 5 goals in 22 playoff games and continue to skate on the 2nd line, imagine what his man-crush on Ericsson will do for him.

Mursak sputtered greatly last season and Howard hasn't progressed the way they'd like. Kindl will be on the team in the next 2 seasons whereas Smith is probably 4 years away.

Ryno also went back home for various reasons. Who knows how he pans out?

Abdelkader is going to be a great checking forward but nothing more than that.

At this point, Ericsson probably has more NHL shine to him than all of the above players mentioned.

I think that you will find that they said that he has the potential to be a top 4 D-man. There is a huge difference.

Lots of players have had these kinds of compliments after less than 10 NHL games and have not panned out.

Take a deep breath, calm down. He looked good in his 7 games but he has a long way to go before we see him playing regularly at the Joe.

[norrisnick 1]

And the hockey sense seems to match closer with the academic sense. Enforcers are there to make sure people don't mess with their star players. That's why Crosby doesn't get touched and why other big name players don't get touched. When they react, they keep people from doing it at a later stage.

Sid got touched.

Z steamrolled him in game 1 as well.

[Guest Crymson]

And in your infinite wisdom you believe that not dressing enforcers is the reason they've won, which BTW would be a stupid argument since we had Kocur and McCarty for 2 of those Cup Finals.

I never said that. However, you've claimed that the Wings are somehow horridly in error for their style as far as concerns enforcers, and I've mentioned that the Wings have won more Cups in the last 15 years that any other team. This would indicate their style works better than any of the other 29 teams you claim are 'in the right' for carrying enforcers while Detroit does not; it would indicate that other teams would do well to adopt Detroit's general managerial style, rather than vice-versa.

[Dabura 12,232]

The Wings just won the Cup without a bigtime enforcer. One or both of Mac and Downey will probably be back.

Why are we talking about enforcers?

Edited July 15, 2008 by Dabura

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The Wings just won the Cup without a bigtime enforcer. One or both of Mac and Downey will probably be back.

Why are we talking about enforcers?

No fricken lie. I thought we got past this during the season.

Enforcers have a decent role on any hockey team. Maybe not so much in playoffs, but in regular season.

Enforcers do not prevent cheap shots from happening.

Enforcers answer cheap shots accordingly, but they will still happe at some point in time in the same game, or future games (see Vancouver-Colorado drama years ago, etc.).

Just because the Wings might not have a true enforcer doesn't mean the Wings are the wussiest or softest team in the league or are not "tough".

There are different forms of "toughness" in hockey which the Wings have showed the past two seasons and postseasons.

While I like fights, there is more to the game than just ZOMG A FIGHT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!

Pretty simple stuff people...and no I'm not going to choose a side/extreme here.

[overHandright1 2]

Why are we talking about enforcers?

I guess I probably started it by saying that Holland should trade Sammy and Hudler so he could sign Mac and Downey to one way deals (even though its highly unlikely). Just my way of upsetting all the pacifists on this site. There are more pacifists on this site than in the Ghandi family tree.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Sid got touched.

Z steamrolled him in game 1 as well.

I'm going to assume you understood what I meant by "touched" and ignore this nit pick.

[Guest Crymson]

I guess I probably started it by saying that Holland should trade Sammy and Hudler so he could sign Mac and Downey to one way deals (even though its highly unlikely). Just my way of upsetting all the pacifists on this site. There are more pacifists on this site than in the Ghandi family tree.

Given that the team won the Cup last year on the 'pacifist' side of things, I'd say your way is wrong.

[eva unit zero 271]

He might not be the #1 prospect but he'll be in the NHL faster than all of the above.

When Babcock, Bowman and Holland all say he's a top 4-dman, you know he's good. Babcock in particular seems to love this kid and we've all seen what that means. When Samulesson can score 5 goals in 22 playoff games and continue to skate on the 2nd line, imagine what his man-crush on Ericsson will do for him.

Samuelsson is a defensively responsible forward. Samuelsson is a big body who can hold his own physically. 5 goals in 22 games is a 19 goal season in 82 games. That's pretty darn good for a solid defensive forward like Sammy playing on the second line when you consider that people here consider a guy like Dan Cleary first-line caliber. Speaking of Cleary, how many goals did he put up in the playoffs?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

The Wings just won the Cup without a bigtime enforcer. One or both of Mac and Downey will probably be back.

Why are we talking about enforcers?

Because we're men and our aggressive nature draws us towards fighting and enforcers.

Also, any time we're in a scuffle I want to feel like the Wings can hold their own, instead of wondering whether Cleary or Franzen are going to get beat down by somebody.

Edited July 16, 2008 by GMRwings1983

[norrisnick 1]

I'm going to assume you understood what I meant by "touched" and ignore this nit pick.

You mean touched in his special place?