Kenny has some work left to do

[Opie 308]

These posts have made me realize that there is not satisfying a good chuck of Wings fans!!!

You want an enforcer because he will step up and hit some one when they do something deemed inappropriate or against the code. Yet when Datsyuk does it, after Roberts takes a dirty shot at Franzen's head, well that isn't good enough because of A, B, and C.

Listen I would love Milan Lucic but until the boneheaded Bruins let him go there aren't many others that can throw down like he can and score like he can.

Now you want a career ending hitter, why, isn't that why you want an enforcer to stop those things and now you want a guy on your team who is out there looking to end careers, no thanks. Give me Kronner and his lack of toughness every day of the week!!

I ask of you EZBAKE what on earth did having Downey prevent, the hit on lids, Mclaren going after Z, no not at all he was in the line up for both games if I am not mistaken.

A fighter is out there for retribution and retribution only, and to answer the question why do all other teams carry enforcers if they are not pivotal.

Teams carry fighters because other teams do, and hockey is a violent sport, men get riled up and get pretty amped up, fists are bound to get thrown, in the old days every player protected themselves, that is not the case anymore because sports have become a business and if you have a guy who can pot 40-50 goals do you really want him throwing fists, no.

I am sure Holland and Babcock had their hearts in their throats when Dats punched Roberts they don't want him breaking his hands. (Lets all be honest by no means did Dats destroy or even remotely hurt Roberts)

However because Dats doesn't throw down at center ice at the opening face off for no reason at all doesn't make him soft or a *****.

EDIT, What in the f*** does your wealthy background have to do with s***. That comment is like people who talk about how big their dick is all the time, the more you have to talk about it the less likely it is true!

Let set something straight for the record, when your post is laden with misspellings it makes you look less intelligent, especially if you're doing it while insulting their intelligence! It is just a fact, basic grammar and spelling are 5th grade level skills, trust me I used to teach 5th grade, so if you are constantly screwing up homophones (3rd grade skill) your posts look like you don't have that age range skill set. You may or may not like it, but it is true!

Edited July 17, 2008 by Opie

[uk_redwing 495]

1. *You're. If you're going to insult my intellect, make sure you at least know the difference between "your" and "you're" first.

A word of advice. If your having an argument, DONT point out grammatical or spelling errors to try and get one up on the other guy.

You just end up looking petty. Not to mention looking like a "cee oh cee kay".

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Also, can we please shut up about fights? I mean really. What solid proof is there that we TOTALLY NEED MORE FIGHTERS?

We just won the Cup without a legitimate enforcer.

Downey is a legitimate enforcer.

Unless, your'e willing to tell me what is and what isn't a legitimate enforcer?

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Downey is a legitimate enforcer.

Unless, your'e willing to tell me what is and what isn't a legitimate enforcer?

Once again, what exactly did Downey "enforce" during the playoffs?

[Opie 308]

Once again, what exactly did Downey "enforce" during the playoffs?

What did Downey enforce in the reg season, nothing he stood up for his teammates when they got hit hard, which is what makes me think he is the perfect fighter for this team. Downey is smart enough not to walk out to center ice for an opening face off and drop the mitts just to fight.

He played the role very well last year and in the 50+ games he got into, other than the fact the Bench got a little shorter, he wasn't a detriment to this team, he stayed out of the box and stood up for his players.

However I have a hard time calling Downey an enforcer, a very good fighter, but he is not a Laraque of 3-4 years ago.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Opie

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Opie, I would respond to your insults if I cared. If you seriously think I have nothing better to do than make my life look cooler online your mistaken, fact is I've basically been under house arrest for a dumb decision I made at a party. I'm sorry you probably get some sexual excitement pointing out other people's grammer online where no one cares about it. Instead of doing that how about you actually answer my post, instead of putting words in my mouth that go agasint everything I said. Your comprehension skills obviously aren't good enough to be a 6th grade teacher, as you misinterpted my whole post and said I supported views that I I demean, so I'll buy the your a all-mighty 50k a yeara 5th grade teacher.

Seeing as English is not my first language feel free to critique it. I frankely dont give a damn. I just want to post this so when you read it you get that sick feeling in your stomach knowing that you make 50 k a year, and your life sucks so bad you have to start picking random fights on LGW to appease your own ego ( and most of the time you lose the arguments, as other people have logic and common sense on their side) OMFG I USED THE RIGHT HOMOPHONE... please critque my THIRD LANGAUGE some more....

As for the actual Hockey talk of the argument, please quote me at one point where I said I wanted an enforcer. You cannot tell me they do anything but give the team a mild boost for a short period of time and entice the fans, all the while being a total liabailty on the Ice.

And as for our Star players not breaking their hand argument, please explain to me how if a Star is in a scuffle, and our enforcer is on the bench, how exactly would the Enforcer help? Don't give me that bs "Oh but Ruttu will be looking for Downey so he wont throw a punch.", as people who say that obviously have never played Hockey at a remotley high level. Emotions get out of hand, and having Downey in the press box or on the bench won't stop our star players from fighting back.

What I did say however, was that the way to truly f*** with a team's head and intimidate is through verocious scott steven's like hits. These do get in a players head, and I have no problem with them at all. I guarantee you people would be more worried about going up ice with Scott Stevens waiting for them, than being scared of Probert on the bench.

Kronnwall is a step in the right direction, but I just hope Franzen becomes a legitimate Power Forward in terms of hitting.

Downey is a legitimate enforcer.

Unless, your'e willing to tell me what is and what isn't a legitimate enforcer?

Downey didnt play at all in the playoffs...

Edited July 17, 2008 by EZBAKETHAGANGSTA

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

What did Downey enforce in the reg season, nothing he stood up for his teammates when they got hit hard, which is what makes me think he is the perfect fighter for this team. Downey is smart enough not to walk out to center ice for an opening face off and drop the mitts just to fight.

He played the role very well last year and in the 50+ games he got into, other than the fact the Bench got a little shorter, he wasn't a detriment to this team, he stayed out of the box and stood up for his players.

However I have a hard time calling Downey an enforcer, a very good fighter, but he is not a Laraque of 3-4 years ago.

Wow Downey stood up for out teamates. This obviously stopped them from getting hurt right? Seriously wtf did he do other than retailiate for a couple cheapshots. I like the guy but he seriously did not do anything monumental enough to give him a roster space over someone who can actually help in all situations

[uk_redwing 495]

This argument is getting really effed up now.

We have anti-enforcer members arguing with other anti-enforcer members over enforcers

[norrisnick 1]

For the record I would like it to be known that I'm not anti-enforcer. I'm pro-hockey player.

[Doggy 130]

For the record I would like it to be known that I'm not anti-enforcer. I'm pro-hockey player.

Pfff.... soft.

[eva unit zero 271]

Pfff.... soft.

When NN asks for a first line of Janney/Turgeon/Gretzky, you can say he's in favor of softies.

So far, he seems to be on the same page as I am, which is that it's much more important to have guys capable of playing hockey who don't disappear when the hits start coming than it is to have one or two guys who can't play hockey, but boy can he punch.

You know, the Jiri Hudler vs Aaron Downey argument.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

What did Downey enforce in the reg season, nothing he stood up for his teammates when they got hit hard, which is what makes me think he is the perfect fighter for this team. Downey is smart enough not to walk out to center ice for an opening face off and drop the mitts just to fight.

He played the role very well last year and in the 50+ games he got into, other than the fact the Bench got a little shorter, he wasn't a detriment to this team, he stayed out of the box and stood up for his players.

However I have a hard time calling Downey an enforcer, a very good fighter, but he is not a Laraque of 3-4 years ago.

Laraque is a wrestler and not an enforcer. He doesn't stand up for his teammates, he doesn't enjoy fighting and he hardly ever fights.

As far as I'm concerned, Laraque is not an enforcer.

Opie, I would respond to your insults if I cared. If you seriously think I have nothing better to do than make my life look cooler online your mistaken, fact is I've basically been under house arrest for a dumb decision I made at a party. I'm sorry you probably get some sexual excitement pointing out other people's grammer online where no one cares about it. Instead of doing that how about you actually answer my post, instead of putting words in my mouth that go agasint everything I said. Your comprehension skills obviously aren't good enough to be a 6th grade teacher, as you misinterpted my whole post and said I supported views that I I demean, so I'll buy the your a all-mighty 50k a yeara 5th grade teacher.

Seeing as English is not my first language feel free to critique it. I frankely dont give a damn. I just want to post this so when you read it you get that sick feeling in your stomach knowing that you make 50 k a year, and your life sucks so bad you have to start picking random fights on LGW to appease your own ego ( and most of the time you lose the arguments, as other people have logic and common sense on their side) OMFG I USED THE RIGHT HOMOPHONE... please critque my THIRD LANGAUGE some more....

As for the actual Hockey talk of the argument, please quote me at one point where I said I wanted an enforcer. You cannot tell me they do anything but give the team a mild boost for a short period of time and entice the fans, all the while being a total liabailty on the Ice.

And as for our Star players not breaking their hand argument, please explain to me how if a Star is in a scuffle, and our enforcer is on the bench, how exactly would the Enforcer help? Don't give me that bs "Oh but Ruttu will be looking for Downey so he wont throw a punch.", as people who say that obviously have never played Hockey at a remotley high level. Emotions get out of hand, and having Downey in the press box or on the bench won't stop our star players from fighting back.

What I did say however, was that the way to truly f*** with a team's head and intimidate is through verocious scott steven's like hits. These do get in a players head, and I have no problem with them at all. I guarantee you people would be more worried about going up ice with Scott Stevens waiting for them, than being scared of Probert on the bench.

Kronnwall is a step in the right direction, but I just hope Franzen becomes a legitimate Power Forward in terms of hitting.

Downey didnt play at all in the playoffs...

It doesn't matter. His name will be on the Cup because he was a part of this team. Kopecky didn't play in the playoffs, and Chelli didn't play in the Finals. Why pick on Downey?

Wow Downey stood up for out teamates. This obviously stopped them from getting hurt right? Seriously wtf did he do other than retailiate for a couple cheapshots. I like the guy but he seriously did not do anything monumental enough to give him a roster space over someone who can actually help in all situations

You mean someone like Kopecky, who's obviously a monumental player with monumental moments?

[uk_redwing 495]

When NN asks for a first line of Janney/Turgeon/Gretzky, you can say he's in favor of softies.

So far, he seems to be on the same page as I am, which is that it's much more important to have guys capable of playing hockey who don't disappear when the hits start coming than it is to have one or two guys who can't play hockey, but boy can he punch.

You know, the Jiri Hudler vs Aaron Downey argument.

Nobody likes you

[eva unit zero 271]

Nobody likes you

I win. Close the thread.

[uk_redwing 495]

I win. Close the thread.

Aww...how cute.

Edit: Sorry I forgot the annoying font.

Edited July 17, 2008 by uk_redwing

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I win. Close the thread.

All of you anti-enforcer people need to go root for some European team in some European league, and stop promoting softness on the Wings.

Meanwhile, I can go root for the Ducks and Flyers like you suggest, and all will be quiet once more.

[norrisnick 1]

All of you anti-enforcer people need to go root for some European team in some European league, and stop promoting softness on the Wings.

Meanwhile, I can go root for the Ducks and Flyers like you suggest, and all will be quiet once more.

There are more Euros on the Wings than most Euro league teams so I may as well stick with the best team.

[Doggy 130]

When NN asks for a first line of Janney/Turgeon/Gretzky, you can say he's in favor of softies.

So far, he seems to be on the same page as I am, which is that it's much more important to have guys capable of playing hockey who don't disappear when the hits start coming than it is to have one or two guys who can't play hockey, but boy can he punch.

You know, the Jiri Hudler vs Aaron Downey argument.

I was just takin' the piss eva. Woosh!!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Does anyone remember what this original thread was about, cause I sure as hell don't?

[Dabura 12,232]

A word of advice. If your having an argument, DONT point out grammatical or spelling errors to try and get one up on the other guy.

You just end up looking petty. Not to mention looking like a "cee oh cee kay".

I'll disregard your advice and stick with my point, thanks. If someone's going to insult my intellect, I'd like for that someone to at least have a handle on the basic tenets of English grammar. If that makes me a "cee oh cee kay," then lube me up, baby!

ASDFkhwvqwsomethingGANGSTA,

Kudos for going to college and being wealthy. Very few young, loaded Americans go to college, so believe me when I say I have the utmost respect for you.

As for your ramblings about Roberts -- honestly, I don't care all that much. You thought it necessary to point out a few posts back that I wasn't giving Roberts "due props" or whatever, as Datsyuk totally would have lost had Roberts been operating at, like, TOTAL MAXIMUM POWER (GRRR). I thought it necessary to basically piss on this point's figurative face because all it was really doing was inviting fight fan circle-jerking (e.g. "Remember that time Roberts was, like, shooting lightning from his eyes? Too bad Holland's too much of a ***** to get some guy with lightning eyes, nawmean?") as well as honoring exactly the kind of s*** Holland tries to steer clear of (which, in turn, is one of the big reasons this club is competitive year in and year out). Roberts is a punk-ass ***** who took a shot to the back of a headcase's head. I therefore don't give a damn that he would've beaten Datsyuk in a fair fight. All that matters is that Datsyuk got the upper hand -- and rather literally, at that. No, Datsyuk didn't instill fear in Roberts, but Roberts didn't try s*** like that again for the rest of the series, which is all you want out of an enforcer's work anyway.

If all of this strikes you as being so terribly "irrelevant," then you shouldn't have made that point about Dats and Roberts in the first place.

Aaron Downey -- he's good for the locker room, good for morale. He's not a very imposing enforcer, though. Nor is he good enough to log any minutes in the postseason (dude's a huge liability. I'm sorry, but it's true.) Nor is he, then, essential; this team marched through the entire postseason without him. ("But they wouldn't have done as well in the regular season without him!" zomg!!1)

Of course, I don't see why this debate's being had in the first place. One or both of Mac and Downey will likely be back. It's not like Holland's said, "WE'RE GOIN' SOFT! WAHOO!" It's important to realize, though, that players like Downey occupy the lowest rung on the roster totem pole. NN has said it, and I'll say it again because it's a great point: it's no coincidence that Bowman -- the Ultimate Coach, period -- favored "soft" teams.

[Doggy 130]

Does anyone remember what this original thread was about, cause I sure as hell don't?

Something about Holland watching two seasons of 24.

[uk_redwing 495]

Wasnt this thread about Holland not getting his coursework in on time?

[Dawgs 0]

I already conceded that trading Sammy and Huds for just prospects was a little extreme (see two posts ago). Since when is trading two players considered to be rebuilding? 34 goals and 75 assists by Sammy and Huds combined (reg/post season) ... huh? That's close to what Hossa will put up all by himself this coming season (by the way ... no pressure Marian!). Hossa had 41 goals/51 assists/ 92 points in the regular season and playoffs combined. Keep in mind that he was with the Thrashers for the majority of the regular season. It's not that I don't appreciate their contributions. True, they were important to the Wings winning the Cup this year. All I'm saying is that we need players with more grit and Sammy's hooking and holding and Hudler's unfinished checks aren't going to get it done. If you expect all these skilled players to be hitting as hard during the regular season as they did during the playoffs without being injured, you are sorely mistaken. More balance between grit and skill is all that I'm suggesting.

In the end, Holland will do what he thinks is best for the team. What you or I say here really doesn't amount to a hill of beans. At this point, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. We all want the Wings to repeat as Cup Champions. I'm sure you all won't disagree with me in that respect.

I know im a day late and a dollar short here but I have visions of Sammy destroying Hal Gill behind Pittsburghs net in game one then pushing Malkin off the puck and throwing the puck in the net. If thats not grit I dont know what is.

Then theres Hudler. Tiny guy with some offensive talent told hes gonna get garbage time minutes until he learns to play two way hockey. Not only has his two way hockey improved significantly, hes among the top scorers on the team in both the regular season and the playoffs. Isnt that the definition of grit?

Casual fans equate fighting with grit. Just because your not knocking teeth out they think you lack grit. Thats not grit.

Grit is being willing to play in high traffic areas. Grit is making the play off the boards even when you know your gonna get hammered. Grit is as much mental as it is physical.

If your looking for a bunch of big Canadian guys who hit everything that moves but take stupid penalties your a fan of the wrong team. I dont see the Wings changing thier philosophy or style (a style Ill remind you that first took root under Scotty Bowman and has resulted in 4 Cups in 11 years) anytime soon.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'd like to know who these "anti-enforcers" are on here. I certainly don't see any.

I see members who highly value them, and I certainly respect that, and I see members that understand their importance but never once have said, "I am against enforcers" or "I hate enforcers" or some variety of that.

I do not see any anti-enforcers or anti-fighters on here, only extreme pro-enforcer members that take the words of people who are fairly neutral on the subject out of context.

[uk_redwing 495]

I'd like to know who these "anti-enforcers" are on here. I certainly don't see any.

I see members who highly value them, and I certainly respect that, and I see members that understand their importance but never once have said, "I am against enforcers" or "I hate enforcers" or some variety of that.

I do not see any anti-enforcers or anti-fighters on here, only extreme pro-enforcer members that take the words of people who are fairly neutral on the subject out of context.

So you're saying Downeys mum is a slag? Thats just harsh and uncalled for. You've never met her!