The Most Overrated/Underrated Superstar

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Did you happen to see any of him in Boston?

If not I can understand why you would think he is underrated, if you had you would see that his bad rebound control is a product of his own skill not anyone else's.

He had good numbers in Boston, but just never seemed to be able to get over the hump, he looks like the real deal, he makes some great saves, but he tends to give up a ton of juicy, fat, medium rare rebounds. Having said that you put him in Detroit or Anaheim with a very responsible defensive corp of defense man and you have a much better statistical goaltender, because those defenses help him clear out rebounds. However, as you pointed out, in Toronto the GM paid lots of loot to offensive defense man, which unfortunately meant 50% (random number I picked) of his rebounds went to the opposition.

Perhaps, but the other side of it is that Detroit is so defensively responsible they don't give away many chances where a great save is needed, thus making his one strong suit null and void. Now, you've got a well-known juicy rebounder with a defense that doesn't give away good chances, so teams will focus on shooting and driving the net. That could be a recipe for disaster as well.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

This is what I call overrating Rick Nash. You have to put this goal machine with the legit #1 center to get 40-50 goals? That doesn't sound like goal machine to me. And comparing him with Ovechkin is normal. Sure, AO had a solid team around him last year. But in his rookie season he was alone (Zubrus was only solid player), and he still managed to score 52 goals. Kovalchuk is playing also alone and still scoring 50. I don't expect 50-60 goals from Nash. But 40 goals should such a superstar score every year, even without good #1 center.

31 goals in 54 games

27 goals 2 years ago

38 goals last year

no number 1 center in any of those seasons, Columbus finishes 28th, 28th and 29th offensively.

And no, I am not comparing Nash to AO as AO is far superior. I'm comparing the BJ's to the Caps and how the Caps surround AO with better offensive players.

Don't forget Nash now plays for maybe the most defensive-minded coach in the league in Hitchcock.

By contrast, the past 3 seasons the Caps have finished 23rd, 17th and 8th. The Caps have been adding more offense in each of AO's seasons and it is showing. Whereas the BJ's have consisistently been one of the 3 worst offensive teams in the league.

That's my argument and i'm sticking to it. Put Nash with a better center, s*** give him somebody like Langkow at least and he'll put up the goal numbers that Iginla does.

[Opie 308]

Just caught the Broduer comments.

Even if Broduer looks remotely close to ordinary next year (doubt it) it is not just the recent history he makes his rep off of.

He was/is an elite goaltender and the only netminders in his class at the same time he played (Roy and Hasek) are considered in a class by themselves, well themselves and Broduer.

The guy was a machine, he made many great saves, is Roy overrated because of the teams he played on in Montreal or Colorado, NO WAY!!!

But somehow Broduer is overrated, yet in the same post Osgood is underrate, wasn't the knock on Ozzie always the teams in front of him?

If you are going to knock Broduer for the teams in front of him, Ozzie should be as well. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Opie 308]

Perhaps, but the other side of it is that Detroit is so defensively responsible they don't give away many chances where a great save is needed, thus making his one strong suit null and void. Now, you've got a well-known juicy rebounder with a defense that doesn't give away good chances, so teams will focus on shooting and driving the net. That could be a recipe for disaster as well.

Great point, my original post was to the person who called him underrated, because if he had only seen him in TO, that could be a valid judgment, I was trying to draw a little comparison, but you are right and I think the 'lanche will find that out in a hurry!

[swiss_fan 3]

Brodeur not Broduer

[Opie 308]

Brodeur not Broduer

DAMN IT!!!!

That is one of those names like Bergereon or Desjardin that I always spell wrong, I re-read and think, mm how do I usually try to spell it and I will try the other way this time, and no matter what I do I friggin' spell the name wrong. Maybe I should use the internet instead of my own head to check spelling.

[jawbreaker 0]

31 goals in 54 games

27 goals 2 years ago

38 goals last year

no number 1 center in any of those seasons, Columbus finishes 28th, 28th and 29th offensively.

And no, I am not comparing Nash to AO as AO is far superior. I'm comparing the BJ's to the Caps and how the Caps surround AO with better offensive players.

Don't forget Nash now plays for maybe the most defensive-minded coach in the league in Hitchcock.

By contrast, the past 3 seasons the Caps have finished 23rd, 17th and 8th. The Caps have been adding more offense in each of AO's seasons and it is showing. Whereas the BJ's have consisistently been one of the 3 worst offensive teams in the league.

That's my argument and i'm sticking to it. Put Nash with a better center, s*** give him somebody like Langkow at least and he'll put up the goal numbers that Iginla does.

If Nash is as good as a lot people say, then why he can't constantly score 40 goals per season even without great center? And you are saying that with the guy like Langkow he would score like Iginla? This is slightly too optimistic, my friend. Yes, he is playing under Hitch, but Hitch sends him on the ice to score goals, 'cause he should be a goalscoring machine, right? Number one thing that Rick Nash has to do is score goals, and under 40 goals from the team superstar, so called one-of-the-best-Canadian-wingers, franchise player is not much.

Media, and fans are really overrating him. He is a good first-line winger, but not a franchise player.

[therock48880 14]

I've posted this in another thread.

Pittsburgh Penguins' franchise record for assists in a season by a rookie

Pittsburgh Penguins' franchise record for points in a season by a rookie

First rookie to record 100 points and 100 penalty minutes in a season

Youngest player in NHL history to record 100 points in a season

Youngest player in NHL history to record 200 career points

Youngest player in NHL history to have 2 consecutive 100 point seasons.

Youngest player to be voted to the NHL All-Star Game

Youngest player in NHL history to win the Art Ross Trophy

Youngest player in NHL history to win the Lester B. Pearson Award

Youngest player in NHL history to be named to the First All-Star Team

Youngest player in NHL history to be named a full team captain

He is the seventh player in NHL history to earn the three highest honours, which are the highest individual awards for an NHL forward.

Are you sure he's overrated? He sure as hell seems to be living up to his expectations, keep in mind these records were set during HIS TEENAGE YEARS!

Yes, I'm still sure he's overrated in the sense that no matter how good he is, he can't live up to the hype.

Plus, and this is admitted by numerous posters on letsgopens.com, Crosby wasn't even the Pens best player last year, Malkin was. And yet, he gets all of the accolades and hype. It's ridiculous that a player that one dimensional has so much hype.

[therock48880 14]

I know a lot of you say that Crosby is overrated, but think about this..... Is he really overrated or over talked about? I mean, i think he has the numbers to back up the fact that he's a super star. I think its just the fact that no one ever shuts up about him.

Valid point. Remember when Flip scored his amazing goal in the Finals? Who was the first player they showed a shot of? Crosby!!!! I realize that's not his fault, but it was ridiculous in the Finals.

You're right he does have amazing numbers, but I'm not sure he'll EVER be able to live up to the amount of hype he gets.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If Nash is as good as a lot people say, then why he can't constantly score 40 goals per season even without great center? And you are saying that with the guy like Langkow he would score like Iginla? This is slightly too optimistic, my friend. Yes, he is playing under Hitch, but Hitch sends him on the ice to score goals, 'cause he should be a goalscoring machine, right? Number one thing that Rick Nash has to do is score goals, and under 40 goals from the team superstar, so called one-of-the-best-Canadian-wingers, franchise player is not much.

Media, and fans are really overrating him. He is a good first-line winger, but not a franchise player.

I live in Ohio and personally, I don't think he's a franchise player. Much like I never thought Brendan Shanahan was a franchise player even in his peak years. I'm just saying its unfair to call him overrated when he has nothing to work with.

Here's some more stats for you since you think i'm too optimistic.

Calgary Flames

2008

Iggy 50 goals

Langkow 65 points

2007

Iggy 39 goals

Langkow 77 points

2006

Iggy 35 goals

Langkow 59 points

2004

Iggy 41 goals

Conroy 47 points

2003

Iggy 35 goals

Conroy 59 points

Funny how nobody thinks Iggy is overrated yet he's only hit the 40+ mark 2 times in the past 5 years.

2008

Nash 38 goals

Fedorov 28 points

2007

Nash 27 goals

Fedorov 42 points

2006

Nash 31 goals

Fedorov 44 points

2004

Nash 41 goals

Andrew Cassels??? 26 points

2003

Nash 17 goals (this was Nash's rookie season-Iggy scored 21 goals his rookie season)

Cassels 68 points

Iggy .434 goals/game career

Nash .424 goals/game career with lesser centerman

Are you picking up any of this?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Yes, I'm still sure he's overrated in the sense that no matter how good he is, he can't live up to the hype.

Plus, and this is admitted by numerous posters on letsgopens.com, Crosby wasn't even the Pens best player last year, Malkin was. And yet, he gets all of the accolades and hype. It's ridiculous that a player that one dimensional has so much hype.

This is why I don't like the term overrated when applied to Crosby. He's in a no win situation. Has he been everything that the next great player was supposed to be? I think so. He's broken records that nobody else had touched for years, even decades. Look at the overall #1's the past 15 years. Crosby did more than any of them and is worthy of all they hype.

Overhyped? Sure. Overrated? That implies he's not as good as he is. He is as good as he is. Comparing him to Gretzky and then calling him overrated is unfair and the media is to blame for that.

[Opie 308]

Yes, I'm still sure he's overrated in the sense that no matter how good he is, he can't live up to the hype.

Plus, and this is admitted by numerous posters on letsgopens.com, Crosby wasn't even the Pens best player last year, Malkin was. And yet, he gets all of the accolades and hype. It's ridiculous that a player that one dimensional has so much hype.

Not to derail the thread but same thought process as this, sure it is ESPN and they know Donkey Dick about Hockey, well except Bucci, but they named him best player and he only played 53 games this year.

That is not objective, that is awarding him for the hype, hype which he cannot live up to, Wayne and Mario are once in a lifetime players, we just happen to be lucky enough that they overlapped a little bit.

For Sid to be Wayne or Mario, which is the hype, he would have to put up some seriously crazy numbers, if he does he will be rightly deserved of the title and hype given to him, however the chances of that are slim to none, and none is in the lead.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He's a great young player, no doubt. However, I too, would put him in the overrated category right now. Yes, he's a phenomenal playmaker and offensive threat. However, that's where his game ends. He doesn't play defense and I can't get the image of him running off the ice every time Zetterberg stepped on the ice in Pitt. out of my mind. Plus, watching him sit helplessly on the bench during the pk and his inability to win important faceoffs hurt him and the team. Yet, if you listen to the hockey "experts" this guy can do everything. He can't. (yet) I compare him to Lebron James. Great, young, offensive talent. But in terms of all-around play, I'd take Kobe. Crosby is young and I assume he will learn how to win faceoffs and play defense. But right now, with all the hype he gets, he's overrated and WAY overexposed.

Even though I am saying he's overrated, he's still great, though. But to listen to everyone talk about the guy, you'd think he invented the game of hockey. He's exciting and fun to watch, but has holes in his game that should be addressed in order to become a complete player. And, yes, I'd love to have him on the Wings.

:clap: :clap:

Exactly. I couldn't have put it better myself. I'm sick and effing tired of my parents, brother and the rest of Halifax, Nova Scotia saying Crosby is the best player in the NHL. He's simply not. He wasn't even the best player on his team this year. In the finals he wasn't even the best player on his team- Hossa was (and Fleurry too for stretches- especially in game 5). He wasn't the best rookie either- Ovetchkin was, so that leaves one season of unquestionable dominance for Crosby (last year) and two for Ovie (rookie and this year).

Is Crosby in the top 5 in the NHL right now? Yeah, of course. Top 3 if you look solely at the offensive side of the game. But he doesn't have grit, defensive skill or anything terribly impressive in the way of leadership (based on listening to him parrot his coach and create personal and team excuses during finals pressers).

The fact of the matter is his "rating" is based on talking heads, experts and every day people. And based on those people Crosby is most definitely overrated. It'd be damn near impossible for Crosby to ever live up to the rating people in Canada assign him.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

This is why I don't like the term overrated when applied to Crosby. He's in a no win situation. Has he been everything that the next great player was supposed to be? I think so. He's broken records that nobody else had touched for years, even decades. Look at the overall #1's the past 15 years. Crosby did more than any of them and is worthy of all they hype.

Overhyped? Sure. Overrated? That implies he's not as good as he is. He is as good as he is. Comparing him to Gretzky and then calling him overrated is unfair and the media is to blame for that.

Then how else do you assign the rating? I guess it comes down to what you define overrated as- pundit/media/public based or your personal rating.

[Opie 308]

It'd be damn near impossible for Crosby to ever live up to the rating people in Canada assign him.

You know what I think I have tried to type that in like 4 or 5 different posts but couldn't put it in those words!!

A+ my man!

[tony 3]

Did you happen to see any of him in Boston?

If not I can understand why you would think he is underrated, if you had you would see that his bad rebound control is a product of his own skill not anyone else's.

He had good numbers in Boston, but just never seemed to be able to get over the hump, he looks like the real deal, he makes some great saves, but he tends to give up a ton of juicy, fat, medium rare rebounds. Having said that you put him in Detroit or Anaheim with a very responsible defensive corp of defense man and you have a much better statistical goaltender, because those defenses help him clear out rebounds. However, as you pointed out, in Toronto the GM paid lots of loot to offensive defense man, which unfortunately meant 50% (random number I picked) of his rebounds went to the opposition.

thats not all i meant razor still manged to set the record for most wins by a maple leafs goalie but yet they thought he wasnt good enough i donno i just think he will proove doubters wrong in colorado

[Drake_Marcus 890]

You know what I think I have tried to type that in like 4 or 5 different posts but couldn't put it in those words!!

A+ my man!

Thanks

[BeeRYCE 2]

You know what I think I have tried to type that in like 4 or 5 different posts but couldn't put it in those words!!

A+ my man!

Media rates him high...

But nobody expected him to crack 100 points in his first season, nobody expected him to win 3 major trophies in his second season, and well at least not too many people expected him to lead the Pens to the finals in his third season. IMO, he has certainly exceeded the critics expectations.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I guess I'm still the only one here who thinks that Gaborik is overrated, since no one else has mentioned him.

Oh well, I guess you guys know something about him I don't know.

[therock48880 14]

This is why I don't like the term overrated when applied to Crosby. He's in a no win situation. Has he been everything that the next great player was supposed to be? I think so. He's broken records that nobody else had touched for years, even decades. Look at the overall #1's the past 15 years. Crosby did more than any of them and is worthy of all they hype.

Overhyped? Sure. Overrated? That implies he's not as good as he is. He is as good as he is. Comparing him to Gretzky and then calling him overrated is unfair and the media is to blame for that.

Don't disagree with anything you've said.

He's a great player, no doubt, but as long as he's in the nhl, no matter how well anyone else plays, Crosby will get the attention. A perfect example is the stupid Espy award he got this year for being the best player in hockey. Yet, most knowledgeable fans, including ones in Pitt, admit he wasn't even the best player on that team last year.

[therock48880 14]

Media rates him high...

But nobody expected him to crack 100 points in his first season, nobody expected him to win 3 major trophies in his second season, and well at least not too many people expected him to lead the Pens to the finals in his third season. IMO, he has certainly exceeded the critics expectations.

What critics? I've never heard any national newscaster say anything even remotely negative about the guy.

[therock48880 14]

Here's the thread from the pens website discussing Crosby winning an espy.

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/phpBB2/v...pic.php?t=27449

[jawbreaker 0]

2GordieSid&Ted

Well you made ur point with Iginla and Nash. Maybe Iginla is overrated. And it's great that u think that Nash is not a franchise player, but many people on different boards, and tv commentators are thinking, that Nash is a franchise player. That is why I'm saying he is overrated.

[sergei_is_still_a_wing 1]

to whoever said gretzky is OVERrated, please never discuss anything hockey related ever again if you were serious. (however you did say something to the effect of you speaking more to his coaching ability maybe or something, but maybe you just don't like the guy??? IDK)

894 goals and 1,963 assists in 1,487 games for 1.92 PPG. don't touch wayne's hockey ability even if you think he's a D-Bag (i'm not even a huge fan, but i respect the fact that no one will ever again lace up a pair of skates and do what he did. EVER).

crosby is not overrated either. as much as we all hate hearing about him. He's top two in the league. and has the best start of any rookie in the past 20 years. sure the media never leaves the tip of his dick, but he's good. he's really good.

[Doc Holiday 0]

What critics? I've never heard any national newscaster say anything even remotely negative about the guy.

In his early years they talked about the problem of him being undisciplined. And I have to agree. The guy never shut his mouth in his rookie year. Forsberg thought he dove one game and Crosby came out of nowhere and starting yammering away at him. He took a few bad penalties against the Wild and, after scoring while Crosby was in the box, Kovalchuk pointed at him, causing Sidney to drop the f bomb three times.

After his rookie year once he let up on the attempted trash talk the sportscasters didn't have much to diss him on.