Are we really Hockeytown?

[pjgj13 30]

Hockeytown is a trademark, nothing more, nothing less. It also refers to the Red Wings, not the sport of hockey in general.

And while the Wings have been THE model franchise for all of pro sports for the last 15 years or so, most of you seem to have forgotten that they went through their lean times too, from the early 60s to the early 80s. Had salaries been like they are today, the Wings would not have survived. Remember that Ilitch had to give away a car at EVERY home game to get people just to show up when he bought the team? They were drawing well under 10,000 per game. Should the Wings go through another tough stretch in the standings, especially before our economy recovers, the same thing could happen. Detroit's a fickle town, just ask the Pistons and the Tigers.

College Hockey at the Joe draws well for Michigan or Michigan State, but that's about the only other show in town that does. Wayne State folded their team because they couldn't even draw 700 people... the Whalers play to about 60% capacity (less than 3000 fans) in Plymouth... we can't even support a Jr. A team, the new Motor City Machine will struggle mightily in Brownstown... minor pro teams last a couple years then close up shop... basically, Detroit supports the Wings (as much as we can with a brutal economy and high-priced tickets) but not hockey in general.

I don't mean to piss in everyone's Cheerios, but we can't just look at one side of the story.

Don't forget about the Detroit Vipers. They led the IHL in attendance every year in existance before the league folded several years ago. I went to MANY games as Wings were impossible to get. The fans were into the games just as much as the Wings fans are. I don't know why they folded when the AHL absorbed 6 or 7 teams, but I am sure it was because they didn't think the state could support the Wings, Vipers & Griffins.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Don't forget about the Detroit Vipers. They led the IHL in attendance every year in existance before the league folded several years ago. I went to MANY games as Wings were impossible to get. The fans were into the games just as much as the Wings fans are. I don't know why they folded when the AHL absorbed 6 or 7 teams, but I am sure it was because they didn't think the state could support the Wings, Vipers & Griffins.

I still have a vipers ministick and I remember that was the first hockey game I ever went to.

[marshadblack 0]

you could make this point detroit has alot of aferican americans and you dont see to many of them playing hockey they would much rather go watch basketball or football or baseball

just a point i thought id make

[gsusluvshockey 0]

Loyal fans are loyal fans.

You can't say that fans from a crappy team are more loyal than fans from a winning team. Because both have loyal fans. Just because buffalo's remaining x thousand fans are loyal doesn't mean that Detroit doesn't have x thousand + loyal fans. The reason buffalo's fans are loyal is because the rest of them jumped ship at the first sign of bad weather.

The more successful a team is, the more fair weather fans it will have. But I guarantee Detroit has more LOYAL fans than 90% of the NHL. It just so happens that the Wings also have millions of non loyal fans.

Bottom line, loyalty is only visible after years of drought.

[Doggy 130]

Loyal fans are loyal fans.

You can't say that fans from a crappy team are more loyal than fans from a winning team. Because both have loyal fans. Just because buffalo's remaining x thousand fans are loyal doesn't mean that Detroit doesn't have x thousand + loyal fans. The reason buffalo's fans are loyal is because the rest of them jumped ship at the first sign of bad weather.

The more successful a team is, the more fair weather fans it will have. But I guarantee Detroit has more LOYAL fans than 90% of the NHL. It just so happens that the Wings also have millions of non loyal fans.

Bottom line, loyalty is only visible after years of drought.

I don't know about 90% of the NHL but you're right, Detroit has more loyal fans than probably all other American teams.

[griffith_bob 5]

No. The label of "Hockeytown" is a joke. It's just a marketing ploy by the owners to increase sales of tix and mechandise. If your looking for a real "hockeytown" then you go to Toronto. Case closed, you cant even try to debate it.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

No. The label of "Hockeytown" is a joke. It's just a marketing ploy by the owners to increase sales of tix and mechandise. If your looking for a real "hockeytown" then you go to Toronto. Case closed, you cant even try to debate it.

That's true. The fact that the fans of Toronto keep coming back to see the sh*t product MLSE continues to put on the ice definitely makes them a real "hockeytown".

[betterREDthandead 58]

So the people of Detroit can't afford a $22 game ticket to see the Wings but they can afford a $60+ ticket to see the Lions?

Don't get me wrong, the economy of Detroit is a factor as to why the Wings don't sell out every game, as well as the fact that the Wings are a victim of their own success but your claim is only part of the problem, not the entire reason.

There are 520,000 available seats for a Lions game and 820,000 available seats for a Wings game. Regular season only. Tack on an extra 240,000 for the playoffs, which the Lions never make, and the Wings have over twice as many seats they have to sell as the Lions do. So naturally it's harder to sell out the whole season.

[ilmickeyli 40]

[betterREDthandead 58]

No. The label of "Hockeytown" is a joke. It's just a marketing ploy by the owners to increase sales of tix and mechandise. If your looking for a real "hockeytown" then you go to Toronto. Case closed, you cant even try to debate it.

Oh, well let's just close the thread then

Part of being Hockeytown is having a good hockey team.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

There are 520,000 available seats for a Lions game and 820,000 available seats for a Wings game. Regular season only. Tack on an extra 240,000 for the playoffs, which the Lions never make, and the Wings have over twice as many seats they have to sell as the Lions do. So naturally it's harder to sell out the whole season.

Ack, C'mon BRTD. I already explained this a couple times in this thread. The *sole* point of my argument was not the amount of seats available or the cost for that matter, rather its that the economy is not the *only* reason people aren't showing up to Wings games. Nothing more. I'm sick of that argument when people label it the sole cause, because the truth of the matter is that its a few different factors, with the economy being the least of the reasons.

[timothy1997 0]

I hear all this mumbo jumbo about how Detroit fans aren't as loyal as Pittsburgh fans or Buffalo fans, and how the Wings don't sell out all their games and how the Wings fans are spoiled.

Also, I found a video of our very own Katrina Hancock speaking to a Pittsburgh reporter on how Pittsburgh fans are so much better than Wings fans.

So are we Hockeytown? Do we have the best fans? Is there a reason why we aren't selling out all our games? Please enlighten me to your opinions.

Havent we talked about this during the SC finals. This is old news.

[Opie 308]

No. The label of "Hockeytown" is a joke. It's just a marketing ploy by the owners to increase sales of tix and mechandise. If your looking for a real "hockeytown" then you go to Toronto. Case closed, you cant even try to debate it.

True, BUT the trademarked name is Hockey Town USA ©, seeing as Toronto is in Canada, it could not be Hockey Town USA ©!

[octopusonice 0]

Hey everybody

Please realize that Detroit's name of "Hockeytown" is actually shortened for "Hockeytown USA"

the USA part has never really been incorporated into the marketing, But if you watched the Wings back when Dave Strader was doing games on PASS, he opened a lot of Wings games by saying "Welcome to Hockeytown USA" or some other version of that.

I think that Montreal is Hockeytown Canada.

I think that Detroit is Hockeytown USA

I think that Minnesota is the State of Hockey USA

I think that Ontario is the Province of Hockey Canada

Buffalo has a great fanbase, and a great youth programs. But without a Stanley Cup, I would have a hard time calling them Hockeytown.

Pittsbugh is NOT hockeytown. They are a football town, the Steelers are the main team. Where were these fans when the Pens were terrible??? Only after Crosby was handed to them by the NHL's rigged lottery draft did they start to gain interest again. Plus can you call any city that was within inches of losing their team to Kansas City of all cities... Hocketown? They are so proud of the 60+ sellout streak... Um excuse me. Detroit's sellout streak was over 400? 450?

Plus last time I checked. The Igloo in Pittsburgh holds about 16,000. The Joe 20,000? 60 x 16,000 compared to 400 x 20,000.

Good take

[MississippiWing 14]

Bellissimo We're Hockeytown because...well because we just are and anyone who says otherwise is just jealous!!!

we're Hockeytown because we had an owner awesome enough to trademark the name. We've won more Stanley Cups than any American based team. Anyone else Pittsburgh included that thinks they are Hockeytown can blow me and the rest of the Red Wings nation. There's way more of us than them so it may take a while.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Why else we are Hockeytown:

Ever notice how the media, a couple times now, has decided at random times, "Detroit is no longer Hockeytown. Let's anoint a new one." Once upon a time it was Buffalo. Then it was St. Paul last season.

Of course, in proclaiming St. Paul, they didn't say, "Buffalo is no longer Hockeytown." They keep coming back to Detroit. I guarantee you the next time they ask, "Who's the 'new' Hockeytown?" it won't be St. Paul they call the "old" one.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

No. The label of "Hockeytown" is a joke. It's just a marketing ploy by the owners to increase sales of tix and mechandise. If your looking for a real "hockeytown" then you go to Toronto. Case closed, you cant even try to debate it.

If you are basing it solely on terms of hockey "popularity" like I am perceiving from your post, Montreal should also be considered then along with Toronto and Detroit. New York perhaps? Definitely Minneapolis/St. Paul (Minnesota). Detroit definitely as well.

What else makes a "real" hockey town in your definition?

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Ack, C'mon BRTD. I already explained this a couple times in this thread. The *sole* point of my argument was not the amount of seats available or the cost for that matter, rather its that the economy is not the *only* reason people aren't showing up to Wings games. Nothing more. I'm sick of that argument when people label it the sole cause, because the truth of the matter is that its a few different factors, with the economy being the least of the reasons.

How dare you suggest a complex description of a complex problem! The answer has to be something simple, something that can make up one or two bullet points in PowerPoint! Man, where do you get off trying to make people think!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

True, BUT the trademarked name is Hockey Town USA ©, seeing as Toronto is in Canada, it could not be Hockey Town USA ©!

Are you sure?

I don't think I've ever seen the "USA" part. Not on the website, not on the championship DVD, not anywhere.

If that's the actual trademark name, they might as well just have it be an asterisk, since they never actually print it.

[Chunkylover 26]

I like when other cities or sports magazines try to take this title and give it to someone else. Detroit is "Hockeytown" because they own the rights to the name. Even if they sucked they'd still be Hockeytown.

What's real lame is that no one tries to take "The State of Hockey" away from Minnesota, or "Hockey Bay" from Tampa, or "Barren Hockey Wasteland" from Phoenix. No, they know they will only move their product by going after the big dog in Detroit. Meh, whatever.

Buffalo and Pittsburgh are fads right now. They had good runs recently, won a lot of games and went deep into the postseason and the fans are excited about the new sports team in town. I mean, those cities didn't have teams before the lockout right?

Toronto is the only team that could continue to sell out, at incredibly high ticket prices, and ice a sub-par team. So I guess Toronto has to be Hockeytown 2. Runner-up would be Minnesota.

[#19=Legend 29]

I like when other cities or sports magazines try to take this title and give it to someone else. Detroit is "Hockeytown" because they own the rights to the name. Even if they sucked they'd still be Hockeytown.

What's real lame is that no one tries to take "The State of Hockey" away from Minnesota, or "Hockey Bay" from Tampa, or "Barren Hockey Wasteland" from Phoenix. No, they know they will only move their product by going after the big dog in Detroit. Meh, whatever.

Buffalo and Pittsburgh are fads right now. They had good runs recently, won a lot of games and went deep into the postseason and the fans are excited about the new sports team in town. I mean, those cities didn't have teams before the lockout right?

Toronto is the only team that could continue to sell out, at incredibly high ticket prices, and ice a sub-par team. So I guess Toronto has to be Hockeytown 2. Runner-up would be Minnesota.

Wrong and Wrong.

[Chunkylover 26]

Wrong and Wrong.

About what? Both teams are average at best, neither plays exceptionally exciting hockey, yet they are both able to sell tickets.

No knocks on Detroit and I'm not transferring the title to them just observing their strength.

[C-TownWing 0]

Part of being Hockeytown is having a good hockey team.

MAYBE a VERY small part, if that. Simply put, the city itself has zero impact on the success/failure of the team. Unless you buy into the idea that Leafs fans are part of that franchise's ineptitude because they're loyal. I think that's a pile of crap personally, you can't blame fans for showing up.

If we traded our franchise with Phoenix's, the Wings wouldn't start sucking because they're in a non-traditional market and the Coyotes still wouldn't be any good just because they're in a better hockey city. Tampa, Raleigh and Anaheim aren't considered serious "Hockeytown" contenders, even though they each have a Cup this decade, and Pittsburgh, Buffalo and Minnesota don't.

Fan support/passion for the NHL (especially as relative to other teams in town), number of kids playing hockey, number of high-level players produced, having enough people care about the sport that the market can also support jr. teams, NCAA programs, minor league teams, etc. Those are all considerations to me, and Detroit/Michigan scores well on all counts--certainly in the top 3 in the USA with Minnesota and Boston (yes, Boston).

[#19=Legend 29]

About what? Both teams are average at best, neither plays exceptionally exciting hockey, yet they are both able to sell tickets.

No knocks on Detroit and I'm not transferring the title to them just observing their strength.

Well toronto does not count... i guess they can have Hockeytown Canada.

Minnesota Wild... cmon. Sure they have a good fanbase.... so? what have they done in the playoffs? .... ever?

IMO, being the most succesful american hockey franchise and arguably the best sports team of the past fifteen years is what it takes to be called Hockeytown USA

Not to mention an origional six team.

[betterREDthandead 58]

If we traded our franchise with Phoenix's, the Wings wouldn't start sucking because they're in a non-traditional market and the Coyotes still wouldn't be any good just because they're in a better hockey city.

Again though: Nobody considers Detroit a football town just because the Lions sell out all the time. Having a good team is a requirement for outside media to give a damn. If the Wings were a bad hockey team that had trademarked Hockeytown, nobody would have picked up on it. They just so happened to popularize it with everyone else by winning Stanley Cups at the same time.

And I don't agree at all that the city has no effect whatsoever on the success of a team. It's perfectly possible for a bad organization to screw up the natural advantage of being based in certain cities. (Knicks, Clippers, etc.) But it's no accident that the NHL's greatest dynasty was in Montreal, the NBA's was in LA, and MLB's in New York. You don't see Baltimore, St. Louis, and Cincinnati dominating any of these leagues.