Why is Bettmen hated?

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

serious post I like the new NHL but I hate Bettman for:

Detroit in the west

expansion to southern and western markets

lack of any real marketing

leaving espn and putting hockey on a channel no one sees

smarmy

the clutch and grab era sucked, the new nhl is much better than it was

[58Miles2Joe 12]

1. The lockout

2. He has only one priority, more money for owners. Fans and players be damned.

[Nightfall 871]

When Bettman came into the League, the NHL was bigger than the NBA. Since then, it's only gone downhill. The NHL is now a distant 4th among the major North American sports.

The NHL was never that big. Why pull something like that out of your ass? It doesn't make you look smart.

[Nightfall 871]

serious post I like the new NHL but I hate Bettman for:

Detroit in the west

expansion to southern and western markets

lack of any real marketing

leaving espn and putting hockey on a channel no one sees

smarmy

the clutch and grab era sucked, the new nhl is much better than it was

I agree on Detroit in the west.

The expansions were not just his decision. Ownership of the teams need to take responsibility as well. I think that more Canadian teams should have been given expansions, but thats just how I feel.

Marketing a sport that is a niche is tough to do. I feel they do a pretty darn good job. Oh, and I feel that spending advertising dollars wastefully is dumb. Some hockey fans think that spending money on advertising during the NBA finals, the super bowl, and other sporting events.

ESPN treated the NHL like a red headed stepchild. I am glad they are gone from ESPN.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The NHL was never that big. Why pull something like that out of your ass? It doesn't make you look smart.

In grsbmd's defense, he's referring to the SI article that stated why the "NHL was Hot and the NBA was Not". However, that article did not claim that the NHL was more popular than the NBA or pulling in better numbers.....just that it was "Hot" and the NBA was "Not".

Edit: Research Done, No numbers or facts to support this claim.

[edicius 3,269]

In grsbmd's defense, he's referring to the SI article that stated why the "NHL was Hot and the NBA was Not". I'll have to do some digging but the article I believe did support the claim with facts and figures.

I remember reading that article as well.

However, even saying that the NHL is 4th in US sports rankings is far too generous. I would guess that things like NCAA football and basketball, golf, or NASCAR (if one is so inclined to consider that a sport) are ahead of the NHL.

Edited July 29, 2008 by edicius

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I remember reading that article as well.

However, even saying that the NHL is 4th in US sports rankings is far too generous. I would guess that things like NCAA football and basketball, gold, or NASCAR (if one is so inclined to consider that a sport) are ahead of the NHL.

That depends on how much *gold* you're referring to.

[edicius 3,269]

That depends on how much *gold* you're referring to.

Smartarse.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

1) NHL revenues are at their highest level ever ($200MM ahead of 2003-04)

Is this adjusted for inflation?

2) Arena attendance is at the highest level ever

Link? Source?

3) American local television ratings are at their highest ever

Link? Source?

4) Player salaries are at their highest level ever

Link? Source?

5) In October 2007, the owners voted 30-0 to give him a 5 year extention

Of course they did. He does whatever they tell him pretty much regardless of its long term impact on the game.

6) In November 2007, the players voted 98.3% to support that extention (and yes, Chelios was one of the 5 dissenters)

Who'd have ever thought Chelios would be the voice of reason??

He joined a league with 26 teams (Florida and Anaheim started play in his tenure but were named as franchises by John Ziegler)............now it has 30

More teams does not = better

So why is he hated, and why do fans want him out of the game? (Besides the banning of the octopus)

His lack of passion for the game. His lack of understanding for the game. His incessant bold face lies about what the fans want, in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like for years when he denied clutching and grabbing was a problem. That he talked to the fans and players and they were content. Then the lockout and he's getting credit for the "new NHL."

or the new schedule "to promote rivalries" when it's really just a ploy for the cheap ass owners to save on travel. And even though the fans made it pretty clear they miss playing teams in the other conferences, they miss seeing the old rivals play, Bettman said they're changing the schedule back "in spite of that the majority of fans like it the way it is."

And in 94, the league may not have been exactly more popular than the NBA, but it was pretty close. Coming off the height of popularity for the sport and a great Stanley Cup finals, Bettman locked the players out in '95. Ten years later, another lockout. At the time the players took all the blame, but they're not the ones making the financial decisions here. It's the owners, and Bettman. Two lockouts in ten years, and a lost season and a half. That's a pretty bad record in my book.

While the owners are responsible for many of the bad decisions made over the years, as commissioner Bettman should be a steward for the game. Leading the owners at times, not just being a patsy for their whims. Particularly when their decisions are motivated by short term or selfish business interests, and not the overall health of the league.

He should have an eye on the long term health of the game, but shows little understanding or love of the sport.

Edited July 29, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Inultus 12]

He should have an eye on the long term health of the game, but shows little understanding or love of the sport.

And thus, this thread is over.

[Nightfall 871]

In grsbmd's defense, he's referring to the SI article that stated why the "NHL was Hot and the NBA was Not". However, that article did not claim that the NHL was more popular than the NBA or pulling in better numbers.....just that it was "Hot" and the NBA was "Not".

Edit: Research Done, No numbers or facts to support this claim.

I just got a chance to read that article. I can see how someone would be misled to believe that the NHL was bringing in better numbers than the NBA. Sure, at one point it was the hottest ticket in town. However, from a pure numbers perspective, the NBA, MLB, NFL, and Nascar have been bringing in more money.

Good discussion on the article.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=346372

[skippy_kenn 0]

Why he is hated?

For hockey purest he has done everything to get rid of the history of the game.

Campbell Conference = Western Conference

Wales Conference = Eastern Conference

Divisions

Smyth

Norris

Adams

Patrick

These names meant something to the game not a compass or direction heading.

He wants to get rid of fighting.

I agree with the obstruction rules to a degree,

you need to be able to stick check a guy coming down the ice.

He wants to expand to Europe yet does not want to aknowledge the superior Europe

players in the league. He would rather focus on a whine kid from North of the boarder

instead of building on the influx of Euro talent in the league.

He is so hell bent on finding the next GRETZKY he is destroying everything we hold dear to NHL.

[Nightfall 871]

The more I read the replies, the more I understand what makes you like or hate Bettmen. Seems that a lot of hockey purists don't like him because he has changed the game. Others don't like the fact that he is trying to get rid of fighting, something I oppose as well. The people that like him see the benefits he has brought to the game like the obsctruction that is being called. I can no longer watch college hockey because of all the obstruction.

Personally, I like the moves he has made for the most part.

[StevieY9802 6]

I agree on Detroit in the west.

The expansions were not just his decision. Ownership of the teams need to take responsibility as well. I think that more Canadian teams should have been given expansions, but thats just how I feel.

Marketing a sport that is a niche is tough to do. I feel they do a pretty darn good job. Oh, and I feel that spending advertising dollars wastefully is dumb. Some hockey fans think that spending money on advertising during the NBA finals, the super bowl, and other sporting events.

ESPN treated the NHL like a red headed stepchild. I am glad they are gone from ESPN.

I was gonna say most of this. But to the thing about Detroit being in the west they were in the west, or campbell conference if you will, well before Bettman got here. And people blame expansion on him but teams like Tampa, Anaheim, San Jose and Florida were already going there before he became commish. Marketing has been better for the NHL and even Chris Osgood said they did a very good job this year. And some of the stuff the website does, with highlights and stuff is great I love it.

More teams does not = better

His lack of passion for the game. His lack of understanding for the game. His incessant bold face lies about what the fans want, in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like for years when he denied clutching and grabbing was a problem. That he talked to the fans and players and they were content. Then the lockout and he's getting credit for the "new NHL."

or the new schedule "to promote rivalries" when it's really just a ploy for the cheap ass owners to save on travel. And even though the fans made it pretty clear they miss playing teams in the other conferences, they miss seeing the old rivals play, Bettman said they're changing the schedule back "in spite of that the majority of fans like it the way it is."

And in 94, the league may not have been exactly more popular than the NBA, but it was pretty close. Coming off the height of popularity for the sport and a great Stanley Cup finals, Bettman locked the players out in '95. Ten years later, another lockout. At the time the players took all the blame, but they're not the ones making the financial decisions here. It's the owners, and Bettman. Two lockouts in ten years, and a lost season and a half. That's a pretty bad record in my book.

While the owners are responsible for many of the bad decisions made over the years, as commissioner Bettman should be a steward for the game. Leading the owners at times, not just being a patsy for their whims. Particularly when their decisions are motivated by short term or selfish business interests, and not the overall health of the league.

He should have an eye on the long term health of the game, but shows little understanding or love of the sport.

Attendance: http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&a...rticleid=359473

Ratings in the US: The Finals were at their highest level but regular season was on par with what it has been, even though the Winter Classic was the highest rated regular season game since 96

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Busine...-TV-Ratings.htm

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22476623/ (Winter Classic Ratings)

More teams does = better in terms of revenue but I do think some of the teams should be moved. There will not be contraction as people have said the NHLPA won't let that happen. Less teams = less money for them.

Everything else you said I am with. I personally did have a problem with clutching and grabbing in certain areas because it made the games not fun to watch. But now it's too far the other way and not consistant. Some games they let stuff go and others if you just tap someone with your glove you get two minutes. So I blame him and the league front office for that. Then the schedule to as you said "promote rivalries." So playing a team 8 times instead of 6 is going to do that? A whole extra two games? I didn't get that. And then that got the Wings not playing teams like the Leafs, Habs, Bruins and Rangers sometimes. Fans want to see teams from the other conference too. Especially now when you have guys like Crosby and AO. They would rather see those teams instead of that whopping one more home game against Nashville or St. Louis. He also ssems to be stuborn. Nashville was having trouble bringing in fans when they were winning and Balsille showed that people wanted a team in Hamilton and imagine how good it would be there taking a playoff contending team there. Balsille might not have done it the "right way" but you basically blocked him out for Boots who didn't have the money he said he did and you have Samueli lying to SEC. Either some teams need to be moved because they just can't survive in a market or the CBA needs to be fine tuned because a lot of teams end in the red. It's only a handful of the big money making franchises that hold some of the other teams up. But I don't think he would ever do that. He would rather see a team in Vegas or KC. I am also with you that he needs to lead the owners sometimes. They are the ones signing the checks and yet they blame the players for driving up prices. It's easy: don't pay them that. And yes he doesn't show passion for the game really. He looks too much of it as a business. You have to look at it that way but have passion about the sport itself too. Someone like Gretz in my mind would be great. He'll want it to be a good business, want more offense but not take out the contact. Oh and the instigator rule is stupid. That needs to be gone.

Those are a few of my issues. He's done a few good things but he has taken the league as far as he can. Like was said he needs too look at whats good for the league as a whole for the long term and is a team in Miami, or wherever they are now, Atlanta, Nashville and Phoenix really good? The longer he stays I fear the more chances are he tries to turn this into the NBA where certain players get certain calls that benefit them and soon it will be women's hockey where you can't touch anyone. I still question the whole Hudler penalty late in game 6 and then the non-call on Pavel.

Edited July 29, 2008 by StevieY9802

[Coolio Mendez 7]

Is this adjusted for inflation?

Link? Source?

Link? Source?

Link? Source?

Of course they did. He does whatever they tell him pretty much regardless of its long term impact on the game.

Who'd have ever thought Chelios would be the voice of reason??

More teams does not = better

His lack of passion for the game. His lack of understanding for the game. His incessant bold face lies about what the fans want, in spite of plenty of evidence to the contrary. Like for years when he denied clutching and grabbing was a problem. That he talked to the fans and players and they were content. Then the lockout and he's getting credit for the "new NHL."

or the new schedule "to promote rivalries" when it's really just a ploy for the cheap ass owners to save on travel. And even though the fans made it pretty clear they miss playing teams in the other conferences, they miss seeing the old rivals play, Bettman said they're changing the schedule back "in spite of that the majority of fans like it the way it is."

And in 94, the league may not have been exactly more popular than the NBA, but it was pretty close. Coming off the height of popularity for the sport and a great Stanley Cup finals, Bettman locked the players out in '95. Ten years later, another lockout. At the time the players took all the blame, but they're not the ones making the financial decisions here. It's the owners, and Bettman. Two lockouts in ten years, and a lost season and a half. That's a pretty bad record in my book.

While the owners are responsible for many of the bad decisions made over the years, as commissioner Bettman should be a steward for the game. Leading the owners at times, not just being a patsy for their whims. Particularly when their decisions are motivated by short term or selfish business interests, and not the overall health of the league.

He should have an eye on the long term health of the game, but shows little understanding or love of the sport.

Ill answer you questions, first since I've read a lot of people with simialr questions to yours.

1) The other guy above you says "the Canadian dollar is stronger" which is the reason for higher revenue sales. Not necessarily the Merchandising sales in the US are higher than ever. The recent deals signed with Gatorade, IBM, Anheuser-Busch and Nike are the biggest the league has ever had.

2) Heres a link enjoy. http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&a...rticleid=359473

3) http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3177745

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2008...tory?id=3427572

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2008...tory?id=3417433

These are all signs of good things to come.

4)http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2492286

keep in mind this was set in 06', were now in 08' which has gone up higher.

5) Don't see why they wouldn't vote him back in. Check links above, also the addition of the Winter Classics has pulled in some new viewers. We got to start somewhere.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Coolio Mendez

[Coolio Mendez 7]

More viewers that don't give a s*** about the game, and have probably never played in their life. And really in the span of a decade, the game has gone from all out war on the ice to no contact figure skating with a puck.

Why the hell does that matter?

The fans got to start somewhere, there not going to come out of the blue telling you the history of the game.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Coolio Mendez

[Coolio Mendez 7]

Why he is hated?

For hockey purest he has done everything to get rid of the history of the game.

Campbell Conference = Western Conference

Wales Conference = Eastern Conference

Divisions

Smyth

Norris

Adams

Patrick

These names meant something to the game not a compass or direction heading.

He wants to get rid of fighting.

I agree with the obstruction rules to a degree,

you need to be able to stick check a guy coming down the ice.

He wants to expand to Europe yet does not want to aknowledge the superior Europe

players in the league. He would rather focus on a whine kid from North of the boarder

instead of building on the influx of Euro talent in the league.

He is so hell bent on finding the next GRETZKY he is destroying everything we hold dear to NHL.

Because us Americans like European athletes so much right? If the game was dominated by European players Americans would NOT watch the game. Hence Soccer the most popular sport in the WORLD, but no American superstar= No American popularity. In order for hockey to be big there would have to be an American player who dominates the game. Crosby is the closest player to it.

[VM1138 1,921]

The NHL as a whole has good numbers, but most of Bettman's ideas crash and burn. Not to mention that individually, there are many, many teams that are suffering and bringing down the game that never should have been introduced to the league (i.e. Florida).

[Coolio Mendez 7]

The NHL as a whole has good numbers, but most of Bettman's ideas crash and burn. Not to mention that individually, there are many, many teams that are suffering and bringing down the game that never should have been introduced to the league (i.e. Florida).

Bettmen didn't bring in any Florida teams, John Ziegler did. Tampa Bay was an excellent expansion doing better then most northern teams.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

Other than the fact the league has seen not 1, but 2 stoppages since he has been commissioner and that he let the NHL become the first sport to lose an entire season to a work stoppage, I think he has been great for the NHL

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

3) http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=3177745

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2008...tory?id=3427572

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2008...tory?id=3417433

These are all signs of good things to come.

4)http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2492286

keep in mind this was set in 06', were now in 08' which has gone up higher.

5) Don't see why they wouldn't vote him back in. Check links above, also the addition of the Winter Classics has pulled in some new viewers. We got to start somewhere.

1) you still didn't say if it's adjusted for inflation over the years.

3) You cited the Red Wings ratings beating the pistons, the ratings for 4 Stanley Cup finals games on NBC, and the winter classic game. Yet your statement was that American local television ratings are at their highest ever.

So you still haven't supported that claim. You only mentioned three isolated examples of ratings being up.

4) you claimed that players salaries are at their highest level ever. The article you cited just talks about the raising cap and revenues. Unless I'm missing something, you still haven't supported that claim.

Yes the Winter Classic got good ratings. That hardly means Bettman is doing a great job.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Other than the fact the league has seen not 1, but 2 stoppages since he has been commissioner and that he let the NHL become the first sport to lose an entire season to a work stoppage, I think he has been great for the NHL

Exactly.

For whatever reason, the players seem to get most of the blame for this, even though they were both lockouts by the owners, not strikes. If not the commissioner of the league, then ultimately who's fault is it that we lost a season and a half of hockey in ten years?

Other leagues have managed caps and tough negotiations without it costing a season.

[Guest Shoreline]

I don't like what he's turned NHL hockey into.

The game used to be fast paced, not so many rules, the same talent not spread so thinly. Hence, why there is a good handful of teams which deserve to be rescinded from the league.

He locked out the league for a year for caps that are, a few years later, nearly the same as what a majority of the average-to-above-average spending teams were spending yearly beforehand.

Incompetent is an understatement. Send his ass back to the NBA.

[Coolio Mendez 7]

Exactly.

For whatever reason, the players seem to get most of the blame for this, even though they were both lockouts by the owners, not strikes. If not the commissioner of the league, then ultimately who's fault is it that we lost a season and a half of hockey in ten years?

Other leagues have managed caps and tough negotiations without it costing a season.

Other then the fact that we lost 1 year of hockey what was so bad about the lockout?

Hockey was at its all time low before the lockout, from the business side of things, I think it was worth it. From a financial standpoint the game is much healthier now than it was pre-lockout. Prior to the lockout, there were several smaller market teams that struggled financially. The only one that I recall having any serious issues since the lockout has been Nashville.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Other then the fact that we lost 1 year of hockey what was so bad about the lockout?

Hockey was at its all time low before the lockout, from the business side of things, I think it was worth it. From a financial standpoint the game is much healthier now than it was pre-lockout. Prior to the lockout, there were several smaller market teams that struggled financially. The only one that I recall having any serious issues since the lockout has been Nashville.

The fact that the NHL had to resort to that in the first place. The whole situation could've been avoided had the proper steps been taken.