Babcock speaks about line combos

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Maybe so.

But Flip is miles ahead of Rex as far as development.

In terms of defense, I agree, but there are plenty of areas where Hudler is miles ahead of Filppula. As you said, his shot is great (much better than Val's), he's got way better offensive instincts than Filppula will ever have and he's a better playmaker.

You have a huge opportunity to instill a ton of confidence in Flip by placing him in a scoring situation when he isn't the guy teams are focusing on.

Rex on the other hand, IMHO, would benefit more from being in that third line scorer spot. He'd be the most offensively talented guy on the line, and would get a lot more opportunities to shoot the puck. And there is no denying his shot, it's terrific.

Pretty much everything you just said about Filppula could be turned around and said about Hudler. Putting him on the second line is an opportunity to instill a ton of confidence in him. With Z and Franzen on the second line, Hudler makes way more sense than Val ever will. The fact of the matter is putting Hudler on that second unit makes it greatly resemble the first in that you have two of the best playmaking centers in the game, along with two snipers that are great at moving puck as well, complete with two of the best net front presences. Then you've got a third line that won't have an abundance of pressure to put pucks in that will absolutely still give you scoring. What could be better?

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

In terms of defense, I agree, but there are plenty of areas where Hudler is miles ahead of Filppula. As you said, his shot is great (much better than Val's), he's got way better offensive instincts than Filppula will ever have and he's a better playmaker.

Pretty much everything you just said about Filppula could be turned around and said about Hudler. Putting him on the second line is an opportunity to instill a ton of confidence in him. With Z and Franzen on the second line, Hudler makes way more sense than Val ever will. The fact of the matter is putting Hudler on that second unit makes it greatly resemble the first in that you have two of the best playmaking centers in the game, along with two snipers that are great at moving puck as well, complete with two of the best net front presences. Then you've got a third line that won't have an abundance of pressure to put pucks in that will absolutely still give you scoring. What could be better?

Why would you pay a guy that much money and then make him a 3rd liner? If Flip is going to be a 3rd liner to start the season, we should have just let him go for the cap space and called up Helm to play on the 4th line with Draper going back on the 3rd line.

It doesn't make sense any other way, since Hudler is making way less than Flip.

[norrisnick 1]

Why would you pay a guy that much money and then make him a 3rd liner? If Flip is going to be a 3rd liner to start the season, we should have just let him go for the cap space and called up Helm to play on the 4th line with Draper going back on the 3rd line.

It doesn't make sense any other way, since Hudler is making way less than Flip.

Z and his tiny contract should be a 3rd liner then, right?

Paychecks should never be making your coaching decisions.

[ArcticWing 0]

3Mil for third line center with average ice time of 10-12 minutes, does that sound a bit off or what? And there has been plenty rumors of a trade before season starts. It's seems very unlikely that Fil would have a career year with less ice time than last year. Which would mean his market value would significantly drop after next season. I have a bad feeling that, the contract was done to bump up his market value and get better position when negotiating with other teams. I hope I am wrong.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Z and his tiny contract should be a 3rd liner then, right?

Paychecks should never be making your coaching decisions.

Bad example. Z wasn't given a contract last month, while Flip was. Do you think Hudler's next contract will give him as much as Flip is making? I don't.

Bottom line still is that Flip is making too much to be a 3rd liner, especially if he was just given that contract with the coaches knowing that he wouldn't be a top 6 forward. It doesn't make any sense, and actually makes him look rather expendable. For that kind of money we could have signed two 3rd liners, or just given one of our other young players more ice time.

Edited August 29, 2008 by GMRwings1983

[Heaton 1]

Bad example. Z wasn't given a contract last month, while Flip was. Do you think Hudler's next contract will give him as much as Flip is making? I don't.

Bottom line still is that Flip is making too much to be a 3rd liner, especially if he was just given that contract with the coaches knowing that he wouldn't be a top 6 forward. It doesn't make any sense, and actually makes him look rather expendable. For that kind of money we could have signed two 3rd liners, or just given one of our other young players more ice time.

Based on your reasoning shouldn't Cleary be moved up as well? Who moves down? Franzen makes the least out of the top 6 so he should be moved down until his salary catches up to his production. Trying to label our 3rd line as a usual 3rd line really dilutes the line of thinking. Had Hossa not been signed it's probable that Filppula would be in his spot instead but since Hossa did sign the best way to make the team better is to pencil Filppula in on the "3rd" line to start the season. He's still going to be getting 16-18 minutes a night in the big games, he's still going to get shuffled around into different and more offensively minded positions but the way these lines are shaking up you could throw any of them out against any other line and at worst it'd be even money. The "problem" the Wings have is that they have too many good players and not enough icetime and spots in the top 6 to go around. My expectations for Filppula this year are roughly the same amount of production offensively, his offensive game won't see a huge jump this year but his contract wasn't 'given' to him based majorly on what shows up on the scoresheet. Ken Holland has admitted that the biggest mystery of Valterri Filppula is how high his offensive potential actually goes.

[norrisnick 1]

If Hudler signs a 5 year deal, yes he will be making as much as Filppula.

And as an interesting tidbit, Fil is only making $2M this season. His contract doesn't have a flat rate.

But in the end it doesn't matter. Whether he's getting $1M/yr or $5M/yr Babcock needs to use him how he'll help the Wings the most. And that's centering the 3rd line.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Based on your reasoning shouldn't Cleary be moved up as well? Who moves down? Franzen makes the least out of the top 6 so he should be moved down until his salary catches up to his production. Trying to label our 3rd line as a usual 3rd line really dilutes the line of thinking. Had Hossa not been signed it's probable that Filppula would be in his spot instead but since Hossa did sign the best way to make the team better is to pencil Filppula in on the "3rd" line to start the season. He's still going to be getting 16-18 minutes a night in the big games, he's still going to get shuffled around into different and more offensively minded positions but the way these lines are shaking up you could throw any of them out against any other line and at worst it'd be even money. The "problem" the Wings have is that they have too many good players and not enough icetime and spots in the top 6 to go around. My expectations for Filppula this year are roughly the same amount of production offensively, his offensive game won't see a huge jump this year but his contract wasn't 'given' to him based majorly on what shows up on the scoresheet. Ken Holland has admitted that the biggest mystery of Valterri Filppula is how high his offensive potential actually goes.

It's hard to justify Flip's contract based on the fact that we have so much talent, since it's pointless to sign the guy to that kind of cash and not put him in the top 6? This should be particularly emphasized with Franzen and Hank coming up in their contract years. As for Cleary, he was signed last year before the Hossa signing and before Franzen's amazing play, so him moving down was not foreseeable.

[Heaton 1]

This year is different than any other year. Filppula was getting his contract regardless but with Hossa signing the top 6 got a lot better but moved down guys who were projected to be or stay there. Wanting Filppula there instead of Hudler is one thing and I can see both sides to that coin, but wanting him there to justify his contract isn't how the Wings do business. It's not like his role will be any different this year and it wasn't like we needed him to step in to a bigger role either, we just won the cup with him on the 2nd line and 2nd PK. He's already a cog in our lineup and that won't change.

Guys like Cleary, Filppula and to a lesser degree Samuelsson are what other teams strive to have but rarely achieve. I'm not a basketball fan but these guys are like the 6th men of our team, they're in elite company for being the "#7" type forwards just outside of the top 6 by a hair. They're both so versitle that they can play in any role asked of them and fill in nicely. This is a good problem to have.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

If those line combos stay intact I would guess the following:

- Zetterberg's production will fall a bit (~70-80 points)

- Hudler's production will jump high (~65 points)

- Datsyuk will rack in the assists

- Hossa could crack 50 goals

- Filppula's production will remain low for the season

[Kp-Wings 3]

It'd be great to see Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Hossa all on one line. Unfortuantly, Holmstrom is useless when he doesn't have any talented players on his line, so you have to keep him with at least two of them.

I think, hopefully, at some point in the season we may see that. I'd like to see just to see how good all three would do on the same line.

Edited August 30, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[norrisnick 1]

If those line combos stay intact I would guess the following:

- Zetterberg's production will fall a bit (~70-80 points)

- Hudler's production will jump high (~65 points)

- Datsyuk will rack in the assists

- Hossa could crack 50 goals

- Filppula's production will remain low for the season

If Hudler gets 65 points on that line Z is up in the 90s or above.

[Guest Four]

I see Franzen, Filppula or Hudler being traded one of these next two seasons

[Heaton 1]

I see Franzen, Filppula or Hudler being traded one of these next two seasons

Snowballs chance in hell.

[Dabura 12,232]

Interesting. I didn't expect Babs to make some of those moves. But the logic is pretty obvious.

[dallas27 7]

If those line combos stay intact I would guess the following:

- Zetterberg's production will fall a bit (~70-80 points)

- Hudler's production will jump high (~65 points)

- Datsyuk will rack in the assists

- Hossa could crack 50 goals

- Filppula's production will remain low for the season

Could? Forgetting about PP time? No doubt Hossa cracks 50 goals. I said at least 55 months ago, still sticking to it. And honestly, we better hope he scores all the goals he can so he realizes Detroit is where he should be for the rest of his career. On top of that I predict that Z, Dats and Hossa all have 90 points at the end of the season. Every single one of them is too dominant ALONE not to at this point in their career. I just don't see how any team in the NHL can contain this team. Detroit can hurt you in sooooo many GD ways it's unbelievable. I don't care how many people do the whole "ohhhhhhhhhhh don't jinx them" BS but this team is just flat-out ridiculously good from TOP TO BOTTOM and I can't see how they don't dominate the league. It's easy to sit there and come back with "oh they look good on paper!!!" a la the Detroit Tigers (more on them later). Well, yea, they do, but they are proven and they add a proven FRANCHISE player to the team? Please. We are about to see a team that could go down as the greatest in history (sans the '80 Olympic team).

I mean, Datysuk and Hossa (which I imagined it would be, I can't see anyone else feeding the puck to the Hoss) on the same line is like...s***, I don't have any good Detroit Tiger references to quote :p34hr: Correction, I do...Alan Trammel and Lou Whitaker.

Flip is overrated on LGW, he may be a second line center at some point. But he will not be the all-star most think he will be. He's a good hockey player and does his role to a T, don't get me wrong, but he is overrated here.

Edited August 30, 2008 by dallas27

[Guest MrSandMan]

Looks good on paper, but I think he'll find that Dats/Zets chemistry is irreplaceable.

But this gives Babcock the opportunity to mix up lines and piss other coaches off.

[Nev 1,085]

I don't like these line combos for several reasons, which are (in no particular order)

1) Z-D-H is arguably the best line in the league with terrific chemisty. Why break up such a dominant line and risk losing that?

2) Hudler has shown the last couple of seasons that he can put up significant numbers whilst playing on the 4th line. Didn't Babs say he had the highest points per minutes played in the league last year? Having a 4th line that is a genuine scoring threat is rare, to say the least. Hudlers ability in that regard is too valuable to waste on the 2nd line, if you know what I mean. I feel sorry for him as Babcocks little *****, but clearly he responds well to being on a short leash.

3) Draper is one of the top 3 face-off men in the league and a dominant defensive forward. Why on Earth would you want him playing on the 4th line?

4) Helm is likely to be scratched/sent to GR if Draper is the 4th line C. He deserves a roster spot.

5) I am something of a Sammy hater, but I really like the 3rd line of him, Draper and Cleary that was put together in the final, certainly was his best play of the post-season.

My lines would be

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hossa-Filpulla-Franzen

Cleary-Draper-Sammuelsson

Hudler-Helm-McCarty

Either way, I am giddy with excitement at our playstation game line-up!

[Chunkylover 26]

Chemistry won't be a problem. Players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hossa are to good for there to be a lack of chemistry.

[Opie 308]

Don't get me wrong ZDH(omer) has great chemistry and was one of the best lines in hockey, however:

-To think that Hossa wouldn't seemlessly slide onto that first line is underrating Dats and Homer. Hossa has many of the same skills that Z has. This puts Dats back to his natural position. My only worry with this line is will Dats revert to his old ways of not shooting enough.

-Huds Z Mule, you have an up and coming homer with more ability beyond the dots in the O zone with the puck. Huds who has probably the best release on the team, and let us not forget Z has tremendous set up skills and fantastic one on one skills, much like the center of the first line!

-Cleary -Flip- Sammy this will be scoring line 2b as opposed to a more traditional 3rd line, offensive upside, much better than most third lines in the league and will probably see a lot of time against 4th lines, you have three guys who would easily be top 6 on most teams and for Cleary he is a 2nd liner on probably every other team in the league. Yet this line can play very solid d. Speed may not be their biggest asset but this is not Luc Homer Igor speed either.

4th line-Draper and whomever else.

This line I am going to name the lego line. There are so many different type, style, size pieces that you can put in with Drapes and have the line be successful, D-mac, Downey, Helm, Maltby, Abdelkader, Leino, Kopecky.

This line gives Babs the ability to bring in some of the young guys and let them play with a great leader and teacher in Draper! Whomever plays on this lill do the following: Fore Check like their life depends on it, play tenacious D (hahahahaha) and work extremely hard.

These lines may look like you would like to see them in a different order but what team in the league can throw out four lines that you could easily play all of them 15 minutes a night and call it a division champ (barring injuries).

Babs can always fall back to ZDH(omer), Huds Flip Hossa, Cleary Draper Sammy, Maltby Kopecky Downey, and still be just as effective. Just because Babs says these are his starting lines, that doesn't mean he may not see something mid season, mid game, mid practice that makes him change the lines.

It is like he walked into the Ferrari plant and the owners said hey here are all of the parts you can use, put them together how ever you want. Regardless of what it looks like it will still be a Ferrari!!

Edited August 30, 2008 by Opie

[dallas27 7]

My lines would be

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hossa-Filpulla-Franzen

Cleary-Draper-Sammuelsson

Hudler-Helm-McCarty

Either way, I am giddy with excitement at our playstation game line-up!

You aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him (again overrated, he gets a "Bobby Orrish" type goal and the guy is an instant superstar here) as opposed with Datsyuk. You don't bring in Hossa and tell him "instead of having one of the best centers in the NHL center you we are going to have a career second-liner center you."

And as Chunky said chemistry won't be a problem. I've been to countless select camps and good hockey players just know how to play hockey. Doesn't matter who they are.

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

the only downside i can see of this is breaking up Z and Dats but hopefully the new line ups can work as well as they do together.

[Nev 1,085]

You aren't going to get the same production out of Hossa with Flip centering him (again overrated, he gets a "Bobby Orrish" type goal and the guy is an instant superstar here) as opposed with Datsyuk. You don't bring in Hossa and tell him "instead of having one of the best centers in the NHL center you we are going to have a career second-liner center you."

I wasn't aware Hossa was here on an ego trip and looking to pad his stats. Cleary I've been labouring under the misunderstandingthat he came here to win a Stanley Cup and had bought into the Redwings team-first policy. My bad.

And as Chunky said chemistry won't be a problem. I've been to countless select camps and good hockey players just know how to play hockey. Doesn't matter who they are.

Chemistry won't be a problem. Players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hossa are to good for there to be a lack of chemistry.

If it were as easy as just throwing together good players then the Selanne-Kariya Avs would have set an NHL record for points and the Rangers would have won the last 10 Stanley Cups. How much better can you make the NHLs best line by replacing one player with another? Best case scenario is that it remains the NHLs best line.

When Babs puts out Z-D-H-Lids-Rafa, the opposition coach, players and fans all sh*t themselves. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[dallas27 7]

I wasn't aware Hossa was here on an ego trip and looking to pad his stats. Cleary I've been labouring under the misunderstandingthat he came here to win a Stanley Cup and had bought into the Redwings team-first policy. My bad.

Never said he was, but way to make up stuff to try and make a point. It's not about padding his stats, it's about getting the most out of him. And you sure as hell ain't going to get the most out of him by sticking him with Valterri freaking Filpulla. Don't know what Flip is giving you guys to smoke to be in love with him, but please pass it my way.

Secondly, stop with the chemistry stuff. People have no right to chime in about chemistry if you haven't played the game (and at a high level), pardon me if you have.

[Heaton 1]

Never said he was, but way to make up stuff to try and make a point. It's not about padding his stats, it's about getting the most out of him. And you sure as hell ain't going to get the most out of him by sticking him with Valterri freaking Filpulla. Don't know what Flip is giving you guys to smoke to be in love with him, but please pass it my way.

Secondly, stop with the chemistry stuff. People have no right to chime in about chemistry if you haven't played the game (and at a high level), pardon me if you have.

It can work both ways. While I'm perfectly happy with having Hossa on Datsyuk's wing I could see Hossa doing wonders for Filppula's confidence and long term development. Hossa scored 100 points on a line by himself in Atlanta, he's shown he doesn't "need" an elite center to produce a massive amount of points but that's not to say it won't enchance him. Since I'm not going to take a stand one way or the other I will say this again, while Holland didn't sign Filppula based solely on his point production his point production isn't going to see any drastic improvements with his linemates he currently has. On that same token, he is better suited to play on the 3rd line with our current lineup - but people better temper their expectations and not be disappointed when he still ends up between 35-45 points. No one is going to produce a ton playing on the 3rd line with vitually no PP time.

I really don't know where the venom is coming from towards Filppula, we won the cup with him centering the 2nd line and no he wasn't the focal point of offense on that line but no one ever should've expected that out of him. His speed, defense and determination is second to only a few on the team and that coupled with probably a cut off point of 55-60 points a year is right in his wheel house. This is a long term contract, Holland isn't expecting him to be worth his value by training camp.