NHL Network: Top 10 Goalies of ALL TIME

[egroen 384]

Just one thing to point out is that it is easier to win individual goaltender awards playing for an inferior team, which made it easier for Hasek to pile up awards that Roy did not (other than stanley cups, conne smythes, etc.). Think about all the goalies that have won major awards. How many have been on the top few teams in the league?

Roy, Sawchuk, Plante, Hall, Dryden -- all benefited from playing on dynasty or near-dynasty teams.

The years Hasek won the Hart, he was not simply the best player on a crappy team, he was easily the best player in the NHL, putting up the best seasons of any goaltender in history... and just happened to be on a crappy team; which makes it all the more impressive.

There is not a single trophy of Hasek's that you could argue for someone else -- though you might argue Hasek deserved more -- would anyone blink if he had won the Conn Smythe in '99 or in '02?

Canada had not won the world championships or Olympics for many, many years because all of the countries best players were playing in the NHL and were not allowed to play in the Olympics, etc. All of the European countries built teams with their absolute best players. If Canada was able to build a team with any of its players, they probably could have sent 20 teams each year that were better than the teams it sent.

True for the Olympics at the time, not true for the World Championships.

Beginning in 1977 Canada was fielding pros.

Canada had the best team on paper in Nagano 98...

And they had Roy! Hasek allowed six goals in total, with only two of them coming in the medal round. Against Canada in the semifinals, Hasek stopped Theoren Fleury, Ray Bourque, Joe Nieuwendyk, Eric Lindros, and Brendan Shanahan for the shootout win. He then shut Russia out for the gold and was player of the Olympics.

Edited September 15, 2008 by egroen

[Konnan511 1,736]

There is not a single trophy of Hasek's that you could argue for someone else -- though you might argue Hasek deserved more -- would anyone blink if he had won the Conn Smythe in '99 or in '02?

Yes, I blink around 25 times a minute, there is a high probability that I was blinking during the announcement

But in all seriousness, Hasek>Roy. How can anyone deny the fact that once Hasek entered the league Roy never won a vezina again. Playing on a crappy team with crappy defense doesn't boost your stats as a goalie.

[toby91_ca 620]

I admit, I think I just made up the playing for a bad team gives the advantage, maybe it has just seemed that that's the way it has gone recently. In some regards though, I think it helps, but in others, not so much.

[egroen 384]

I admit, I think I just made up the playing for a bad team gives the advantage, maybe it has just seemed that that's the way it has gone recently. In some regards though, I think it helps, but in others, not so much.

I think like Chelios, Wings' fans often forget just how dominant Hasek was before coming to Detroit.

You are right - in Hart voting it helps, but not so much for the Vezina. Lidstrom, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are at a disadvantage in Hart voting because all 3 of them could arguably be "the most valuable" at a given time. Hasek's Harts and Pearsons were completely deserved though... you will not find many arguments otherwise.

Edited September 15, 2008 by egroen

[toby91_ca 620]

True for the Olympics at the time, not true for the World Championships.

Beginning in 1977 Canada was fielding pros.

They were fielding pros, but not their best pros. Only the available players went the world championships, others were still playingn in the NHL playoffs. Even the players that were available didn't necessarily go.

[toby91_ca 620]

There is not a single trophy of Hasek's that you could argue for someone else

I think you can make the argument for Lemieux to have won the 1997 Hart and Pearson seeing as he scored 122 pts, with number 2 coming in with only 109. Also, I think you can build an argument for Brodeur winning the Vezina that year. Even if you think Hasek deserved the Venzina, the fact that Brodeur was so close tells me that Hasek was not dominant enough to deserve Hart and Pearson honors. Same goes for 1998 Hart and Pearson.

I think you can also make a case for Chechmanek winning the 2001 Vezina.

[egroen 384]

They were fielding pros, but not their best pros. Only the available players went the world championships, others were still playingn in the NHL playoffs. Even the players that were available didn't necessarily go.

Can we agree the top Soviets and Czechoslovakians were at least "competitive" with the NHL? Point being, Hasek's accomlishments before the NHL should not be ignored, as he was playing in one of the best leagues in existence at the time and the best that was available to him. Beating out Jagr was something few people in the world could do at the time.

Edited September 15, 2008 by egroen

[toby91_ca 620]

Can we agree the top Soviets and Czechoslovakians were at least "competitive" with the NHL? Point being, Hasek's accomlishments before the NHL should not be ignored, as he was playing in one of the best leagues in existence at the time and the best that was available to him. Beating out Jagr was something few people in the world could do at the time.

Being Canadian, it's hard for me to agree to that, due to NHL = best bias. But I will agree that the leagues were at least competitive as you put it, but I think the NHL was the better competition.

Also, I don't place too much on him beating out Jagr as best at the time. Would he have been 24 or 25 and Jagr 17 or 18?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm always disappointed that Tretiak never played in the NHL, because it would have been great to see how he'd measure up in a discussion like this. At this point, it's near impossible to compare him to Roy or Hasek because he only played internationally.

With that said, I still put him 2nd on my list of best goalies ever. I was wondering how others here rank him?

[Opie 308]

I think you can make the argument for Lemieux to have won the 1997 Hart and Pearson seeing as he scored 122 pts, with number 2 coming in with only 109. Also, I think you can build an argument for Brodeur winning the Vezina that year. Even if you think Hasek deserved the Venzina, the fact that Brodeur was so close tells me that Hasek was not dominant enough to deserve Hart and Pearson honors. Same goes for 1998 Hart and Pearson.

I think you can also make a case for Chechmanek winning the 2001 Vezina.

What you seem to be missing is that Chechmanek had players around him, Broduer had players around him, Lemieux had ******* Jagr for Christ's sake.

Hasek had such greats as:

Matthew Barnaby

Michael Peca

Bob Boughner

Mike Greir

Doug Houda

Paul Kruse

J-Woolley

Alexei Zhitnik

Not exactly top 10 talent on that team was there!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

What you seem to be missing is that Chechmanek had players around him, Broduer had players around him, Lemieux had ******* Jagr for Christ's sake.

Hasek had such greats as:

Matthew Barnaby

Michael Peca

Bob Boughner

Mike Greir

Doug Houda

Paul Kruse

J-Woolley

Alexei Zhitnik

Not exactly top 10 talent on that team was there!

As someone already mentioned, he probably wouldn't have won all those Vezina trophies if the team was elite.

Besides, goalies seem to play better with the more shots that they get. Hasek was a guy who got a lot of work, hence that made him look more important to his team in the voters' minds than other goalies who played for better teams which faced less shots.

[Opie 308]

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm always disappointed that Tretiak never played in the NHL, because it would have been great to see how he'd measure up in a discussion like this. At this point, it's near impossible to compare him to Roy or Hasek because he only played internationally.

With that said, I still put him 2nd on my list of best goalies ever. I was wondering how others here rank him?

Gold sticker for post of the day right here boys and girls, everyone read this post and if you don't know who he is talking about spend some time researching it, time well spent!

Top 3 goalie of all time easily!

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Gold sticker for post of the day right here boys and girls, everyone read this post and if you don't know who he is talking about spend some time researching it, time well spent!

Top 3 goalie of all time easily!

Laugh all you want, but if you look at Tretiak's accompishments and the way he revolutionized goaltending, it's not overstatiing it to say that he's in the top 2 or 3. He was considered the best goalie in the world for a long time.

I was just merely saying that it's difficult to rank him because of his non-NHL career, but that I still personally put him highly on the list.

[dallas27 7]

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm always disappointed that Tretiak never played in the NHL, because it would have been great to see how he'd measure up in a discussion like this. At this point, it's near impossible to compare him to Roy or Hasek because he only played internationally.

With that said, I still put him 2nd on my list of best goalies ever. I was wondering how others here rank him?

It's easy to say how he'd measure up in a discussion like this; he's the best, the guy won 11 gold medals. He was even Hasek's goalie coach, so you tell me how he measures up with Hasek. Just because he played internationally doesn't mean you can't compare him. Is an apple in the states different than an apple overseas? They are all goalies.

Tretiak

Roy

Brodeur

Hasek

Sawchuk

Roy revolutionized how goalies today play the game, he is responsible for the butterfly.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

It's easy to say how he'd measure up in a discussion like this; he's the best, the guy won 11 gold medals. He was even Hasek's goalie coach, so you tell me how he measures up with Hasek. Just because he played internationally doesn't mean you can't compare him. Is an apple in the states different than an apple overseas? They are all goalies.

Tretiak

Roy

Brodeur

Hasek

Sawchuk

Roy revolutionized how goalies today play the game, he is responsible for the butterfly.

But it is difficult when you start comparing his 11 gold medals to anything that Roy or Hasek did. Roy didn't play that much internationally to win 11 gold medals. Also, the level of competition in the Olympics wasn't as high then as it is now. It's hard enough to compare goalies from different eras, let alone different leagues.

[toby91_ca 620]

Tretiak, here's what I can say about him: The guy must have been good, real good. The reason I say that is this. As a young kid, growing up in Canada and playing ball hockey, I knew who Tretiak was, to the point that if I played goal, I might call myself Tretiak. I remember it vividly. At the time, I considered him one of, if not the best goalies in the world.

For a Canadian kid, if you even heard of a player outside the NHL, you know they must be something special, but to put them up there with one of the best, they you can imagine how good he must have been.

I guess that's all I have to say, I've got nothing beyond remembering at a time when I was much, much younger, he was probably the ONLY player outside the NHL I had ever heard of.

[toby91_ca 620]

double

Edited September 15, 2008 by toby91_ca

[Opie 308]

As someone already mentioned, he probably wouldn't have won all those Vezina trophies if the team was elite.

Besides, goalies seem to play better with the more shots that they get. Hasek was a guy who got a lot of work, hence that made him look more important to his team in the voters' minds than other goalies who played for better teams which faced less shots.

Isn't that just the nature of the beast, if you are surrounded by mediocre talent yet because of your individual play the team performs far and away better than they should and gets farther than they should. Where as if you are a great talent in net but have the 02 Wings in front of you your talent is not needed as much as say a Hasek in front of the 97-98 Sabres team.

Hasek was not just making a lot of saves though, the quality of his saves were tremendous, sure the snow angel made a couple of fluttering shots look more difficult than they were, but how often did the fact that he had a slinky for a spine keep the puck out of the net.

I am not saying he should be 2 not 3 or 1 not 2 or 3 not 2, I am just defending the argument that the man was bare none one of the best to ever play the position. And on these all times list once you get to top 5 it is usually biases or preferences or the era you saw play that makes one higher than the other. Some here have already mentioned a Canadian bias, well then of course you are going to pick Roy, and as some one with out a Canadian Bias I would agree, but I could also point out how Hasek could have been better.

[Opie 308]

Laugh all you want, but if you look at Tretiak's accompishments and the way he revolutionized goaltending, it's not overstatiing it to say that he's in the top 2 or 3. He was considered the best goalie in the world for a long time.

I was just merely saying that it's difficult to rank him because of his non-NHL career, but that I still personally put him highly on the list.

I made that post in 100% serious agreement with you, Tretiak is easily top 3 netminder of all time, easily!

How often did that guy lose?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Isn't that just the nature of the beast, if you are surrounded by mediocre talent yet because of your individual play the team performs far and away better than they should and gets farther than they should. Where as if you are a great talent in net but have the 02 Wings in front of you your talent is not needed as much as say a Hasek in front of the 97-98 Sabres team.

Hasek was not just making a lot of saves though, the quality of his saves were tremendous, sure the snow angel made a couple of fluttering shots look more difficult than they were, but how often did the fact that he had a slinky for a spine keep the puck out of the net.

I am not saying he should be 2 not 3 or 1 not 2 or 3 not 2, I am just defending the argument that the man was bare none one of the best to ever play the position. And on these all times list once you get to top 5 it is usually biases or preferences or the era you saw play that makes one higher than the other. Some here have already mentioned a Canadian bias, well then of course you are going to pick Roy, and as some one with out a Canadian Bias I would agree, but I could also point out how Hasek could have been better.

I have no Canadian bias to Roy. I hate the man, and if he were here right now, I'd take a baseball bat and break it over his head.

I just think he was the best because of the longevity, the Cups, the Conn Smythes, and the fact that he took several underdog teams to the Finals throughout several different eras.

[Opie 308]

I have no Canadian bias to Roy. I hate the man, and if he were here right now, I'd take a baseball bat and break it over his head.

I just think he was the best because of the longevity, the Cups, the Conn Smythes, and the fact that he took several underdog teams to the Finals throughout several different eras.

And you know what, I have no arguments against that, he definitely did all of those things you said. Which is why I think when you get to top 5 it is so hard to distinguish, because then it is well Roy did this and Hasek did that.

To me it is like the Brady/Manning debates as to who is the best QB, they both have done some crazy stuff, set recordsm won rings. Me personally I say Brady, I am a Pats fan though.

[Lancz 0]

Has Roy ever knocked anyone ass over teakettle? ?

Both make me laugh, sorry I don't know how to embed~

Edited September 15, 2008 by Lancz

[egroen 384]

I think you can make the argument for Lemieux to have won the 1997 Hart and Pearson seeing as he scored 122 pts, with number 2 coming in with only 109. Also, I think you can build an argument for Brodeur winning the Vezina that year. Even if you think Hasek deserved the Venzina, the fact that Brodeur was so close tells me that Hasek was not dominant enough to deserve Hart and Pearson honors. Same goes for 1998 Hart and Pearson.

I think you can also make a case for Chechmanek winning the 2001 Vezina.

Lemieux was the leading scorer but had clearly lost a step (from 161 the previous year). For Buffalo, LaFontaine was out the entire season and Hasek caried them single-handidly into the playoffs. Top scorers in 97 were Audette, Holzinger and Plante with 53, 51 and 50 points and 4 other guys with over 40 points, a total of 12 with over 30 points. That is so horribly bad.

Regarding Brodeur in '98 - not even close. Hasek faced almost 600 more shots on goal than Brodeur and still came away with a 93.2 Save %. GAA and Wins are a team stat as much as a goalie stat.

'98 Hasek had one of the greatest seasons of al time, for anyone -- he had six shutouts in a single month (13 on the season), won the Olympic gold during the break, took home the Hart trophy on .932% save percentage that had even Gretzky saying he had never seen more dominant play by a hockey player. "One on one against him the shooter is at a disadvantage"

Cechmanek was closer in '01 but Hasek still won both the Vezina and 1st All Star selection.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hasek is a top 5 alltime goalie, but a cooler and more entertaining goalie? There is none.

[egroen 384]

Tretiak should definitely be in the discussion, like Hasek he obviously excelled in international play -- a 5 time Soviet Player of the Year. No one else has ever won more than 3.