Lines shuffled; Meech in for Lebda

[2probert4 8]

His scoring last year during the regular season and playoffs, independently and overall made him top-six caliber in raw numbers and in per minute numbers. He is better than average defensively. What is it exactly you would qualify as a top six caliber forward? 60+ points and a strong penalty killer?

Because I'll tell ya what, if that's your definition...There are fewer than 90 "top-six" forwards in the NHL.

As far as top six on the Wings? He's the fourth-best offensive forward on the team. Putting guys like Cleary and Filppula on the second line above Hudler while Hudler plays with Draper seems like a poor move to me. Flip and Cleary are defensive stalwarts with some offensive skill. Hudler is our best offensive player after the big three, and can play defense. Which player should be the winger on Zetterberg's line? Which should be the winger for Draper's? Seems obvious. Hudler has the best shot of the three. Hudler's the best playmaker of the three. Hudler belongs on the scoring line.

There are a lot of teams where Hudler would be playing on the first line with the amount of skill he has, and many fans here complain and think he isn't good enough to be on the second or third and should be on the fourth or in the press box. Serious reality check is needed. Hudler is seventh (technically, tied for sixth) in team forward scoring despite the fact that he has spent most of the season seeing #10 forward ice time.

I still call for trying a second line with Hudler centering Hossa and Cleary or Franzen. Hudler's primary instincts seem to be as a playmaker. Yes, he can shoot, and is respectable defensively...but let's see what happens if you give him two wingers who can score goals and play defense. I think the result would be pretty awesome.

Hudler playing in his own end is a joke. You'll argue it until you fall over I know..... You used to make arguments for Lebda I recall....

[CrossoverThrash 0]

I think hudler just dosent fit on this team, thats what babcock's problem with him is. I think this is Hudler's last here year. Its not that he's not performing, its that when he's put on one line he acts a certian way, then on anoter a different way. You can see him working hard out there but in the end i think he's too small to play in this system that demands such a high amount of phyisicality and strength. I think he runs out of gas trying to keep up with Z and Franzen while trying to be aggressive, physical, and defensive. And when you put him on the 3rd line he then gets paired with other teams 3rd lines and he's just not that type of player.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Better for the team to have Hudler on the second line and Flip on the third than the reverse if you have to choose; Hudler is better suited to an offensive role than Filppula is...Filppula is better suited to a defensive role than Hudler is. Saying you have to have Flip on the second and Hudler on the third is kind of silly given the fact that DRAPER is currently centering the third line. Flip has not proven he can be a legitimate scoring threat like you are suggesting despite being given that kind of ice time; Hudler has been a scoring threat despite NOT being given that kind of ice time. Ultimately, Babcock's lack of patience with Hudler; the "I can't wait until his line isn't perfect so I can demote him in the name of experimenting with changes" attitude is really bugging me. Hudler is one of the best forwards on the team. Other guys get tons of slack for missteps they might make...Hudler doesn't fire on all cylinders and isn't exactly what Babcock wants, and he's demoted. It's like he was never really being given a chance; that his playing with Zetterberg was simply for show; to say "Hey, I gave the kid a chance on the second line and he didn't stick." when it really never happened.

Oh I don't disagree. Babcock seems to really have it in for Hudler and it's a real shame. He basically plays 10 minutes every second game and it seems if the game is tight he won't even play towards the end of regulation. I don't think Babs has any trust in him and I although I would hate to see it happen, I just get the feeling Hudler is gone at seasons end. Hudler clearly loves playing here and his passion is refreshing.

The fact that he was demoted off Zetterberg’s line after 2 games sums up how much Babs likes Hudler. Not much at all. Ever since he’s been the coach of the Wings he’s easily been the hardest on Hudler.

[58Miles2Joe 12]

Better for the team to have Hudler on the second line and Flip on the third than the reverse if you have to choose; Hudler is better suited to an offensive role than Filppula is...Filppula is better suited to a defensive role than Hudler is. Saying you have to have Flip on the second and Hudler on the third is kind of silly given the fact that DRAPER is currently centering the third line. Flip has not proven he can be a legitimate scoring threat like you are suggesting despite being given that kind of ice time; Hudler has been a scoring threat despite NOT being given that kind of ice time. Ultimately, Babcock's lack of patience with Hudler; the "I can't wait until his line isn't perfect so I can demote him in the name of experimenting with changes" attitude is really bugging me. Hudler is one of the best forwards on the team. Other guys get tons of slack for missteps they might make...Hudler doesn't fire on all cylinders and isn't exactly what Babcock wants, and he's demoted. It's like he was never really being given a chance; that his playing with Zetterberg was simply for show; to say "Hey, I gave the kid a chance on the second line and he didn't stick." when it really never happened.

I am so with you on this.

It drives me crazy that Sammy can screw up so much and stay on a scoring line, but the first time Hudler isn't perfect he gets put on a third or fourth.

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

Bringing in Meech and swapping DMAC for Downey would be great, but I guess we take what we can get. Let's go Meech!

Cheers!

esteef

Barring more injuries, I think Mac will be sent down to GR to make room for Cheli when he is healthy...that is if Franzen is healthy enough to return himself. I must say I would rather see Downey in the lineup than Mac at this point.

Glad to see Meech getting an opportunity, I sure hope he makes plays well and is able to help stabilize a weak defense right now.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Hudler playing in his own end is a joke. You'll argue it until you fall over I know..... You used to make arguments for Lebda I recall....

By the standards of the forwards on the Red Wings, Hudler isn't the best defensively. I really don't think Hudler is any worse than Samuelsson in his own end on most nights and Samuelsson is still logging second line minutes. Hudler never even got a chance to play on the second line, while Sammy can seemingly do no wrong in Babcock's eyes.

It's not that Hudler can't contribute to the team - the problem is that Babcock doesn't give him a fair opportunity to do so.

Edited November 3, 2008 by GoWings1905

[South Dakota wings fan 7]

Oh I don't disagree. Babcock seems to really have it in for Hudler and it's a real shame. He basically plays 10 minutes every second game and it seems if the game is tight he won't even play towards the end of regulation. I don't think Babs has any trust in him and I although I would hate to see it happen, I just get the feeling Hudler is gone at seasons end. Hudler clearly loves playing here and his passion is refreshing.

The fact that he was demoted off Zetterberg’s line after 2 games sums up how much Babs likes Hudler. Not much at all. Ever since he’s been the coach of the Wings he’s easily been the hardest on Hudler.

I would agree that Hudler seems to find his way into Babs doghouse easier than anyone else on the team. I almost wish Franzen would be placed on IR so we could see what Leino has to offer. If Leino was good, I would even be fine trading Hudler to another team to create some cap space. If a fresh "hungry" player in Leino showed he was a capable NHL player he could fill the space of Huds.

Edited November 3, 2008 by South Dakota wings fan

[hokeychik22 17]

Ill be honest when I say Lilja has been one of our better defensemen out there. Still not happy about McCarty playing though...

since his surgery i noticed he has been a little better.

[norrisnick 1]

I would agree that Hudler seems to find his way into Babs doghouse easier than anyone else on the team. I almost wish Franzen would be placed on IR so we could see what Leino has to offer. If Leino was good, I would even be fine trading Hudler to another team to create some cap space. If a fresh "hungry" player in Leino showed he was a capable NHL player he could fill the space of Huds.

Hudler at this point is a reasonable upside for Leino. He's a couple inches taller, but they're pretty much the same type of player. He lucked out with a favorable first impression with Babcock, so he has that going for him. But at this point there is work to do for Ville to be as good as Hudler let alone better than him.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

Hudler playing in his own end is a joke. You'll argue it until you fall over I know..... You used to make arguments for Lebda I recall....

I never heard that argument if it did exist. As for Hudler being terrible in hiw own end this game alone he now ahs an assist, 2 turnovers, and singlehandedley stopped a breakaway. How do you want yoiur crow?

[Mikeal 60]

*snip bs about hudler etc*

Back on topic I'm really liking how Meech is playing tonight.

[ben_usmc 253]

bye Lebda

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Meech's energy was wonderful tonight. This should spell the end of Brett Lebda.

[The Mule 0]

I'm too lazy to browse through the thread, so bare with me.

How did Meech look tonight? I wasn't able to tune in.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Much better than lebda ever has.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Meech's energy was wonderful tonight. This should spell the end of Brett Lebda.

While true on the game, let's not get carried away here. It's only been 1 game.

[2probert4 8]

Hudler at this point is a reasonable upside for Leino. He's a couple inches taller, but they're pretty much the same type of player. He lucked out with a favorable first impression with Babcock, so he has that going for him. But at this point there is work to do for Ville to be as good as Hudler let alone better than him.

The only reason Leino is at Grand Rapids is because of the cap situation, and Leino is already better in his own end than Hudler. The reason that Hudler stays in the doghouse is because he does not make good decisions away from the puck but I will agree that Samuelsson gets away with too much.

[norrisnick 1]

The only reason Leino is at Grand Rapids is because of the cap situation, and Leino is already better in his own end than Hudler. The reason that Hudler stays in the doghouse is because he does not make good decisions away from the puck but I will agree that Samuelsson gets away with too much.

Again, Ville made a favorable first impression. He isn't better than Hudler, even defensively. He's taller. That's it.

[egroen 384]

Again, Ville made a favorable first impression. He isn't better than Hudler, even defensively. He's taller. That's it.

Though I think Babcock might play even me more than Hudler, if I just shot the puck in the general vicinity of the net every time I touched it.

[Uncle Danny 155]

Random thought re: Hudler with regard to Z's line.

Z is, for obvious reasons, going to play on the top or 2nd line. It's entirely possible that he requested or at least suggested the change in order to get some more defensive play on his line. This frees him up to be more creative in the offensive zone, knowing that his linemates are among the better defensive players on his team.

Now, I'm not sure that's what happened here, but it did strike me as possible that the move had less to do with Hudler than it did with Z. Obviously, something worked, as the man had one hell of a game last night.

[rage 24]

Random thought re: Hudler with regard to Z's line.

Z is, for obvious reasons, going to play on the top or 2nd line. It's entirely possible that he requested or at least suggested the change in order to get some more defensive play on his line. This frees him up to be more creative in the offensive zone, knowing that his linemates are among the better defensive players on his team.

Now, I'm not sure that's what happened here, but it did strike me as possible that the move had less to do with Hudler than it did with Z. Obviously, something worked, as the man had one hell of a game last night.

This has also crossed my mind. You could be on to something here U.D.

Didn't Zettereberg say he liked to play with Sammy also? hmm.

Well, plus Babcock hates Hudler. haha.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

This has also crossed my mind. You could be on to something here U.D.

Didn't Zettereberg say he liked to play with Sammy also? hmm.

Well, plus Babcock hates Hudler. haha.

Wrong. Check out the archives on RedWingsCentral.com. Babcock was quoted as saying he demoted Hudler because he didn't like the way Hudler took fewer shots and tried to be a playmaker on a line with Zetterberg and Franzen, which itself is a bulls*** excuse. What do you expect a player to be inclined to do when hes playing on a line with a 40 goal scorer and a near 30 goal scorer? The fact remains he didn't give Hudler even the slightest chance to adapt his game. He was demoted after 2 games, so even if Babcock told Hudler to shoot more after the first game, 2/3 of one game to make the change is hardly a fair amount of time to adjust.

As for Hudler, he is just fine in his own end and Leino has done nothing to show he is better or even as good in his own end in the real NHL. Have we forgotten Leino has yet to play a real NHL game?

[Uncle Danny 155]

Wrong. Check out the archives on RedWingsCentral.com. Babcock was quoted as saying he demoted Hudler because he didn't like the way Hudler took fewer shots and tried to be a playmaker on a line with Zetterberg and Franzen, which itself is a bulls*** excuse. What do you expect a player to be inclined to do when hes playing on a line with a 40 goal scorer and a near 30 goal scorer? The fact remains he didn't give Hudler even the slightest chance to adapt his game. He was demoted after 2 games, so even if Babcock told Hudler to shoot more after the first game, 2/3 of one game to make the change is hardly a fair amount of time to adjust.

As for Hudler, he is just fine in his own end and Leino has done nothing to show he is better or even as good in his own end in the real NHL. Have we forgotten Leino has yet to play a real NHL game?

Umm, whom exactly are you arguing with? I didn't see any mention in the quoted post of Leino, nor any disparaging of Hudler's defensive abilities (aside from stating the obvious that Flip is better in that department, which is no insult to Rex).

In fact, I see you almost making the argument that this scenario IS possible, given that we agree on Babcock's explanation (taking you at your word here on the quote) for Hudler's demotion being press friendly garbage. Reread and I think you'll see that this portion of the thread was based on the decision being made FOR Z and not AGAINST Hudler.

Edited November 4, 2008 by Uncle Danny