Avery comments & suspension

[Grim 5]

Looks like Ranger fans would take him back with open arms..

The fans might... but the Rags have zilch in cap-space.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Stars would eat some of it if a team thinks it's too much.

It's all about PR. Just like if people here were going to other LG forums and smearing this forum's name, they'd get punished, Avery is getting punished for smearing the NHL and his organization. His teammates were clearly embarrassed, and it's one of those things where he clearly intended on it getting out there. The NHL is entertainment on the ice, and promoting the players, not promoting s*** talking between the private life and affairs of players like it's the WWE. I'm pretty sad that Avery only got his cheesy suspension and not a year long ban to set an example, as unfortunate of an overreaction as it would be.

Clearly, the players have been embarrassed about his continued circus of antics. I would like to think that he wouldn't have gotten 6 games if this was his first controversial comment. Do you think that promoting violence is smearing the game or his organization?

The way I look at it is look at the NBA. The most embarrassing thing that happened in recent years was the Pistons-Pacers brawl and not Shaq rapping about Kobe. It seems to me that the NHL takes the opposite stance.

[Guest Shoreline]

Clearly, the players have been embarrassed about his continued circus of antics. I would like to think that he wouldn't have gotten 6 games if this was his first controversial comment. Do you think that promoting violence is smearing the game or his organization?

The way I look at it is look at the NBA. The most embarrassing thing that happened in recent years was the Pistons-Pacers brawl and not Shaq rapping about Kobe. It seems to me that the NHL takes the opposite stance.

Well, besides going outside the bounds of sports and into the personal life realm (would be akin to Shaq calling Kobe's woman a *****.. wonder what the NBA would have done, or not, that's their league), the only other reason most media pays attention to the NHL is when a player goes out of their way to brutally attack another, either the way Bert did, or the way McSorley and others with the stick did. When people think of these moments are they proud of this? Is it given publicity in the HOF? The only people who would promote this as good for hockey don't really know how the game is played, nor do they care to see it maintain the sort of decorum it has, being a physical sport at that.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Well, besides going outside the bounds of sports and into the personal life realm (would be akin to Shaq calling Kobe's woman a *****.. wonder what the NBA would have done, or not, that's their league), the only other reason most media pays attention to the NHL is when a player goes out of their way to brutally attack another, either the way Bert did, or the way McSorley and others with the stick did. When people think of these moments are they proud of this? Is it given publicity in the HOF? The only people who would promote this as good for hockey don't really know how the game is played, nor do they care to see it maintain the sort of decorum it has, being a physical sport at that.

You seem to be missing the point.

The reaction from the Stars and the Manitoba Moose is unlike anything I have ever seen. Players, coaches, owners coming out publicly stating they "don't want the guy around"

Ask yourself a couple of questions to maybe put this in perspective.

When is the last time you saw a player's coach say what Tippet said, that he didn't think he could build a cohesive team with Avery?

When is the last time you heard hockey players publicly state they don't want t teammate around.

When is the last time you saw a minor league team publicly say they would not welcome an NHL player being sent down to their roster?

I'm 31, been watching/playing the game since I was a pup and I have never, or at least do not recall ever seeing a reaction to a player like what Avery is up against now.

And for what? For saying "sloppy seconds".

Of course his suspension is only 6 games. But you're wearing a blindfold and living under a rock if you think he's going to suit up for Dallas on game number 7. They aren't going to let him play anytime soon. The Stars don't have a minor league affiliate and thus far the teams they've contacted have said they don't want Avery on their roster.

In essence, as you say, he could very well find himself earning a paycheck by not being able to play. And the reason is that nobody wants to take him and it has nothing to do with his on ice play, just the comments he made. So in a very real, very openly public way he is being black balled out of the league....or at least early appearances are such.

If Todd Bertuzzi didn't get banned from the league for what he did. I find it amusing and hypocritical, especially of the Stars organization and the NHL to in effect, force Avery into Anger Management (when has the league ever made a player do that? Especially one that's never been suspended....EVER!) and be all wishy-washy about his playing future.

The way the league and the Stars are treating Avery. You'd think he had leprosy, slept with all the players' wives and was responsible for the Holocaust.

[Guest MrSandMan]

That's right, nobody wants Avery on their team. Not even the AHL.

Avery's talents are too good not to play, but he's not worth $4/$5 mil or whatever he is getting paid.

What a hit against Avery... he's paying the price for his little stunt now.

[seeinred 1,488]

Ok, so thus far it appears the Stars want no part of Avery. And apparently the Manitoba Moose have gone public and said they would not welcome him.

So, if the Avery haters can put their hatred aside for just one second and be objective about this.....

If Avery is in effect black balled out of the league and all of professional hockey for this off the ice, lewd comment. Is that a justifiable punishment? To effectively end his playing career?

In a league where Chris Simon is allowed to keep playing, where Todd Bertuzzi nearly kills someone on the ice and is allowed to keep playing, in a league where players like McCarty, Mark Bell, Patrick Roy, etc...have battled alcoholism, drugs, abuse, been arrested, etc......

In a league where worse things than this Avery episode have occurred both on and off the ice, is it going too far if this guy loses his livelihood forever?

I think this s*** has gotten way out of hand. And whereas I don't particularly care for Avery, I think it'd be an injustice for him to lose his way of life b/c of this considering what other players have done.

And no, this has nothing to do with the culmination of episodes throughout his career b/c up until "sloppy seconds" he had never been suspended and for the most part had never been in trouble. He'd run his mouth before yes, but nobody ever called for his banishment from the league. Which is what he may be looking at.

In short, yes, it's completely justifiable. If a team doesn't want him, it's on Avery and no one else. It's not just this comment, but s*** he's done in the past, and mainly s*** he might do in the future. Yeah it sucks for him, but if 0 out of 30 organizations want a guy like that on their team, then that's just the way it is.

[Guest Shoreline]

You seem to be missing the point.

The reaction from the Stars and the Manitoba Moose is unlike anything I have ever seen. Players, coaches, owners coming out publicly stating they "don't want the guy around"

Ask yourself a couple of questions to maybe put this in perspective.

When is the last time you saw a player's coach say what Tippet said, that he didn't think he could build a cohesive team with Avery?

When is the last time you heard hockey players publicly state they don't want t teammate around.

When is the last time you saw a minor league team publicly say they would not welcome an NHL player being sent down to their roster?

I'm 31, been watching/playing the game since I was a pup and I have never, or at least do not recall ever seeing a reaction to a player like what Avery is up against now.

And for what? For saying "sloppy seconds".

Of course his suspension is only 6 games. But you're wearing a blindfold and living under a rock if you think he's going to suit up for Dallas on game number 7. They aren't going to let him play anytime soon. The Stars don't have a minor league affiliate and thus far the teams they've contacted have said they don't want Avery on their roster.

In essence, as you say, he could very well find himself earning a paycheck by not being able to play. And the reason is that nobody wants to take him and it has nothing to do with his on ice play, just the comments he made. So in a very real, very openly public way he is being black balled out of the league....or at least early appearances are such.

If Todd Bertuzzi didn't get banned from the league for what he did. I find it amusing and hypocritical, especially of the Stars organization and the NHL to in effect, force Avery into Anger Management (when has the league ever made a player do that? Especially one that's never been suspended....EVER!) and be all wishy-washy about his playing future.

The way the league and the Stars are treating Avery. You'd think he had leprosy, slept with all the players' wives and was responsible for the Holocaust.

You're saying -I- am missing the point? You're asserting yet again that Avery is banned from the league and yet to show proof of it. Where is he banned? He got a suspension for only a small handful of games. It's the Stars that apparently don't want him to play for their team. How does that prevent him from being traded to another team? I don't see how simply him voluntarily being evaluated for anger management problems (to see if this is an issue or not) is the same as going through an anger management program -- a clear distinction made in the TSN and CBC articles. If other teams decide they don't want to take a risk on that, that's Avery's problem -- well, and the Stars' (financially). The difference here is very clear between you and I. You sympathize with what he did. I do not. You seem okay to have this in the league. I do not. This ain't a league to be trashing people's girlfriends or wives or kids or anything not related to hockey, with a clear exception being in jest or tongue-in-cheek, like those commercials. No one cared about the commercials, in fact, found them funny because they knew it wasn't a serious attempt to humiliate someone. Now, unnecessary attention is paid to their personal lives. Your vision here is rather short-sighted as to the problems it causes when you go out of bounds from what is proper decorum in a professional league, especially one with such some dignity as this one. You're damn straight I would suggest I don't want a teammate around if he put me, my teammates, and the rest of the organization in a position to get attention from the media and answer for his stupidity. You wouldn't? This is a pretty ******* selfish way to act, and it's very clear the Stars' organization and his teammates were in the right to separate themselves from that and let him deal with this on his own as he did not speak for them.

[OsGOD 3]

I just wrote a real long nasty e-mail to 89x this morning... I can not belive what i heard this morning on their show... especially after all that has been rocked in the Hockey world and them being Canadien....

Dave or Chuck refered to Jessica Beal as (now sit down here this is HORRIBLE)..... SLOPPY SECONDS!!! *gasp*!!!!

Can you believe it? after all Jessica bring to the Radio world.. they have the nerve to refer to her as that?!?!?!?!

Didn't they learn anything from Avery.... that is just not something you say about someone who has such great pull in your career!!!!!!!

Awaiting response from them. Hopefully both if not all get suspended for awhile. even lisa cause she laughed!

[Dabura 12,232]

Avery brings that same exposure that she does to the game...

Actually, Avery brings much more exposure. Like I said earlier in this thread, Avery is generally good for the league in the sense that he -- and, vicariously, the league -- gets exposure in demographics that superstars like Vinny and Crosby and AO have trouble cracking. However, he went over the line this time, whereas Cuthbert has never done so and has only helped the league (albeit, not as much as Avery has). So I think all the trash talk being thrown her way in this thread is ridiculous, immature, and in poor taste overall, especially since some of the people doing the trash-talking are among the people wondering why the league can't seem to earn itself many new fans these days. (Curious, isn't it?)

As I've also said already, a lot of you don't seem to understand that just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean it's not bad business. Many of us grew up in youth hockey locker rooms, calling each other every foul name under the sun and generally being s***ty little bastards. I'm from the East Coast; I've played with Long Island pricks and New England thugs. "Sloppy seconds" doesn't offend me. But again, we're talking about a corporate business. More than that, we're talking about a corporate business model: an outreach initiative designed to crack open some previously untapped demographics and bring in a substantial number of new long-term fans. While it's true that "bad press can be good press," that's only true to a point. If you're a business, and one of your key employees says something foul in the media, you've got to act on it. Whether you agree with acting on it or not, you have to do it.

Do I think six games is overlong? Yes and no. The severity of the sentence underscores what's at stake, and I think that's the point. This may sound backwards, but by doling out an overlong punishment, the league is actually acknowledging Avery's importance more than it's slighting or questioning it. Bettman, I'm sure, knows Avery has a nose for the spotlight, and he knows that's a great asset for the NHL. He also knows that Avery's a loose cannon and that that makes him a risky asset. The league wants to remove the risk from the equation and get Avery to realize that he doesn't need to cross the line in order to be an effective representative for the league. And I support that way of thinking.

I see some people saying Bettman shouldn't even be intervening in the first place. Consider the alternative -- i.e., letting the Stars organization settle the matter. Judging by the public comments being made by people within that organization, leaving it to the Stars is asking for trouble. And that could ultimately result in the end of Avery's NHL career. Now, on a personal level, I wouldn't shed any tears if he were to be forced into exile. He truly is a ****** bag of epic proportions. But for the league? Like I've said, Avery's generally good for the NHL. If he can reign himself in a little and learn what buttons not to push, everyone will be better off, the NHL will be better off, and hockey will be better off.

[Dabura 12,232]

double

Edited December 9, 2008 by Dabura

[OsGOD 3]

As I've also said already, a lot of you don't seem to understand that just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean it's not bad business. Many of us grew up in youth hockey locker rooms, calling each other every foul name under the sun and generally being s***ty little bastards. I'm from the East Coast; I've played with Long Island pricks and New England thugs. "Sloppy seconds" doesn't offend me. But again, we're talking about a corporate business. More than that, we're talking about a corporate business model: an outreach initiative designed to crack open some previously untapped demographics and bring in a substantial number of new long-term fans. While it's true that "bad press can be good press," that's only true to a point. If you're a business, and one of your key employees says something foul in the media, you've got to act on it. Whether you agree with acting on it or not, you have to do it.

Has cuthbert actually come out to say it offended her... or did she just blog... "-- LOL -- i am on the tv and not for my acting TEEHEE! *hair flick*"

just like the lions center that gave the FANS the finger on sunday who says he doesn't regret doing that at all. TO me that is far worse than some mini feud in hockey. Hell Rosie and Donald threw around so much worse statements in their little lovers spat.

And i don't question why the league isn't getting new fans one bit.. Bettman is a Joke and in turn making the NHL a joke

Mainly because they make a big deal about somethign that isn't even hockey related?!

Edited December 9, 2008 by OsGOD

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

You're saying -I- am missing the point? You're asserting yet again that Avery is banned from the league and yet to show proof of it. Where is he banned? He got a suspension for only a small handful of games. It's the Stars that apparently don't want him to play for their team. How does that prevent him from being traded to another team? I don't see how simply him voluntarily being evaluated for anger management problems (to see if this is an issue or not) is the same as going through an anger management program -- a clear distinction made in the TSN and CBC articles. If other teams decide they don't want to take a risk on that, that's Avery's problem -- well, and the Stars' (financially). The difference here is very clear between you and I. You sympathize with what he did. I do not. You seem okay to have this in the league. I do not. This ain't a league to be trashing people's girlfriends or wives or kids or anything not related to hockey, with a clear exception being in jest or tongue-in-cheek, like those commercials. No one cared about the commercials, in fact, found them funny because they knew it wasn't a serious attempt to humiliate someone. Now, unnecessary attention is paid to their personal lives. Your vision here is rather short-sighted as to the problems it causes when you go out of bounds from what is proper decorum in a professional league, especially one with such some dignity as this one. You're damn straight I would suggest I don't want a teammate around if he put me, my teammates, and the rest of the organization in a position to get attention from the media and answer for his stupidity. You wouldn't? This is a pretty ******* selfish way to act, and it's very clear the Stars' organization and his teammates were in the right to separate themselves from that and let him deal with this on his own as he did not speak for them.

First off, I wasn't trying to offend you. Sorry if it came off that way.

Second, I'm not trying to prove he is banned from the league. I'm not asserting anything. It's a hypothetically posed question. If you reread the original post I made, the question I was posing was that if in fact he ends up banned via being blackballed from the league b/c nobody will take him, do you find that to be justifiable. And the other episodes he's been involved in shouldn't be given the weight they are now b/c none of those prior episodes were anything suspension worthy nor were they things that had people calling for his head on the chopping block. Essentially, this boils down to the sloppy seconds comment only. That is what has pushed this to the current level.

Third, I'm not saying I sympathize or condone what he did. I don't think players need to make those kinds of statements. So please don't assume you know what I feel about it. Whereas I don't condone it, I feel that in the grand scheme of things it falls far down the list of things that I personally would see as more heinous and more worthy of the treatment Avery is now getting. Bertuzzi comes to mind right off the bat. There's an issue that made headlines all over and ended up in court. Yet I don't recall Bertuzzi garnering near the amount of scrutiny as Avery did and in one episode a man was nearly paralyzed and could've been killed and in the other a couple of people were the targets of offensive language by Avery. Personally, nearly paralyzing somebody seems like a bigger deal to me than words.

I would ask you to step back for a second and get some perspective.

You're telling me this isn't a league for trash talking people's wives and girlfriends.

So what is it, a league for sucker punching and paralyzing people? It's a league for chopping people in the face with your stick? It's a league for breaking people's vertebra and leaving them in a crumpled heap to be replayed nationally, over and over again?

I just find it amusing that you think Avery has made this bed and therefore if nobody wants him then it's his fault.

Yet you have nothing to say about McSorely, Bertuzzi, Simon. I would think that you would be saying the same thing for those guys and that you would be up in arms that those players are/were still allowed to suit up for an NHL team. And your reasoning seems to be that "well, other teams want them so it's okay".

Is that your rationale for all of this? That Avery's lewd words are his own fault so if no team wants him then so be it.

But Bertuzzi nearly cripples somebody, ends their career but b/c other teams still wanted him it's okay to give that guy a pass and allow him to keep playing?

Like I said, it seems to me, in light of other instances the NHL has gone through, that a disproportionate amount of....i don't know what to really call it, is being levied upon Avery.

[Dabura 12,232]

edit

Edited December 9, 2008 by Dabura

[OsGOD 3]

sure they are... afterall is that what betmans problem is...

i feel so bad for this young girl.. Mr avery you get 6 games.

I feel so bad for Franzen when McClelann tried to split in him half in the post-season... 5 games

Edited December 9, 2008 by OsGOD

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Actually, Avery brings much more exposure. Like I said earlier in this thread, Avery is generally good for the league in the sense that he -- and, vicariously, the league -- gets exposure in demographics that superstars like Vinny and Crosby and AO have trouble cracking. However, he went over the line this time, whereas Cuthbert has never done so and has only helped the league (albeit, not as much as Avery has). So I think all the trash talk being thrown her way in this thread is ridiculous, immature, and in poor taste overall, especially since some of the people doing the trash-talking are among the people wondering why the league can't seem to earn itself many new fans these days. (Curious, isn't it?)

As I've also said already, a lot of you don't seem to understand that just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean it's not bad business. Many of us grew up in youth hockey locker rooms, calling each other every foul name under the sun and generally being s***ty little bastards. I'm from the East Coast; I've played with Long Island pricks and New England thugs. "Sloppy seconds" doesn't offend me. But again, we're talking about a corporate business. More than that, we're talking about a corporate business model: an outreach initiative designed to crack open some previously untapped demographics and bring in a substantial number of new long-term fans. While it's true that "bad press can be good press," that's only true to a point. If you're a business, and one of your key employees says something foul in the media, you've got to act on it. Whether you agree with acting on it or not, you have to do it.

Do I think six games is overlong? Yes and no. The severity of the sentence underscores what's at stake, and I think that's the point. This may sound backwards, but by doling out an overlong punishment, the league is actually acknowledging Avery's importance more than it's slighting or questioning it. Bettman, I'm sure, knows Avery has a nose for the spotlight, and he knows that's a great asset for the NHL. He also knows that Avery's a loose cannon and that that makes him a risky asset. The league wants to remove the risk from the equation and get Avery to realize that he doesn't need to cross the line in order to be an effective representative for the league. And I support that way of thinking.

I see some people saying Bettman shouldn't even be intervening in the first place. Consider the alternative -- i.e., letting the Stars organization settle the matter. Judging by the public comments being made by people within that organization, leaving it to the Stars is asking for trouble. And that could ultimately result in the end of Avery's NHL career. Now, on a personal level, I wouldn't shed any tears if he were to be forced into exile. He truly is a ****** bag of epic proportions. But for the league? Like I've said, Avery's generally good for the NHL. If he can reign himself in a little and learn what buttons not to push, everyone will be better off, the NHL will be better off, and hockey will be better off.

Dab,

You've made alot of great points to back up your stance throughout this. I don't necessarily agree with all of them but whatever.

And i'm not getting involved in the Cuthbert, Avery, who is better for the league argument.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the question I posed earlier. Hypothetically, let's say Avery ends up being out of work b/c of this. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that he made this bed and if he's out of work then so be it? If so, do you find that to be just? At this point I don't see Avery playing for anybody. Personally, I can't wrap my head around the idea that a guy can lose his career for being a big mouth when other players can nearly end someone's career and continue to keep playing. Your thoughts?

[Dabura 12,232]

Has cuthbert actually come out to say it offended her...

Either way, the league had to react. That's because this is more than "some mini feud," as you described it. While, yes, Avery was only referring to Cuthbert and Phaneuf, the potential implications, ramifications and reverberations of the comment extend beyond that little love triangle. Avery is the face of the league to a number of people. As such, he's basically an ambassador for the league. As such, his words and actions reflect on the league at large and can go a long way in helping or hurting the league's viability.

It's like Bush pissing someone off at a UN council meeting; yeah, it's beef between just two people, but that doesn't mean other people -- maybe even entire nations -- won't factor into the equation.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the question I posed earlier. Hypothetically, let's say Avery ends up being out of work b/c of this. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that he made this bed and if he's out of work then so be it? If so, do you find that to be just? At this point I don't see Avery playing for anybody. Personally, I can't wrap my head around the idea that a guy can lose his career for being a big mouth when other players can nearly end someone's career and continue to keep playing. Your thoughts?

It depends on the angle I'm taking. Like I said, on a personal level, I wouldn't miss him; I think it would be a poetically just end. From a more practical point of view, I wouldn't want to see him go, as he's generally good for the league and I want good things for the league. Because I want good things for hockey. From a sympathetic point of view, I acknowledge that there might actually be something physiologically "wrong" with him, possibly stemming from, say, a neurological disorder. Perhaps he'll have a breakthrough in his anger management treatment.

As for the question of fairness, I don't think it's even worth getting into because, realistically, this won't break his career. That's sort of what I was getting at with my comments about Bettman's "intervention" -- Avery is important to this league. The league wants to straighten him out, not feed him to the wolves.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

As for the question of fairness, I don't think it's even worth getting into because, realistically, this won't break his career. That's sort of what I was getting at with my comments about Bettman's "intervention" -- Avery is important to this league. The league wants to straighten him out, not feed him to the wolves.

Ok. Maybe you're right, maybe he'll return at some point. Perhaps the Stars and everyone else for that matter simply need some more time to forgive and/or forget and move on. I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a team flat out leave a player out in the cold like this.

Personally, I don't mind him so long as we don't have to play him. He's talented enough to be in the league and he provides a level of exposure, both good and bad that the league simply doesn't have enough of.

The comments that have come from the Stars, the Moose and others just had me thinking that the possibility his career could be over might be real. And if so, I find it astonishing that it could happen in light of other things I've seen perpetrated in the game that IMO are more heinous and more deserving of banishment, black balling, whatever we want to call it.

[Dabura 12,232]

I guess my point is that if worst comes to worst, the league will probably play God a little and throw him some rope. He's important to the league, and if his career does end up being cut short, it will be because of something substantially worse than "sloppy seconds." Bank on it.

[lets go pavel 2]

As for the question of fairness, I don't think it's even worth getting into because, realistically, this won't break his career. That's sort of what I was getting at with my comments about Bettman's "intervention" -- Avery is important to this league. The league wants to straighten him out, not feed him to the wolves.

Ok. Maybe you're right, maybe he'll return at some point. Perhaps the Stars and everyone else for that matter simply need some more time to forgive and/or forget and move on. I just couldn't remember the last time I saw a team flat out leave a player out in the cold like this.

Personally, I don't mind him so long as we don't have to play him. He's talented enough to be in the league and he provides a level of exposure, both good and bad that the league simply doesn't have enough of.

The comments that have come from the Stars, the Moose and others just had me thinking that the possibility his career could be over might be real. And if so, I find it astonishing that it could happen in light of other things I've seen perpetrated in the game that IMO are more heinous and more deserving of banishment, black balling, whatever we want to call it.

I realize that this particular incident is the one of record, but from everything I've heard this is simply the straw that broke the camel's back for the Stars. It sounds like they had had enough of Avery long before this incident, and perhaps just didn't have the balls to get rid of him on their own. Personally I think the suspension is a bit much, I think the league should have left it to the Stars to deal with. But to answer your hypothetical question, if his career is done and noone will take him after this it will be because of his history of disruptions, on and off the ice, and particularly in the lockerroom, much more so than just this comment.

[Guest MrSandMan]

I realize that this particular incident is the one of record, but from everything I've heard this is simply the straw that broke the camel's back for the Stars. It sounds like they had had enough of Avery long before this incident, and perhaps just didn't have the balls to get rid of him on their own. Personally I think the suspension is a bit much, I think the league should have left it to the Stars to deal with. But to answer your hypothetical question, if his career is done and noone will take him after this it will be because of his history of disruptions, on and off the ice, and particularly in the lockerroom, much more so than just this comment.

Were they not excited when they acquired him and signed him to a generous contract? He wasn't on the team long, maybe some players were not happy that Stars signed him before the fact?

[OsGOD 3]

Either way, the league had to react. That's because this is more than "some mini feud," as you described it. While, yes, Avery was only referring to Cuthbert and Phaneuf, the potential implications, ramifications and reverberations of the comment extend beyond that little love triangle. Avery is the face of the league to a number of people. As such, he's basically an ambassador for the league. As such, his words and actions reflect on the league at large and can go a long way in helping or hurting the league's viability.

It's like Bush pissing someone off at a UN council meeting; yeah, it's beef between just two people, but that doesn't mean other people -- maybe even entire nations -- won't factor into the equation.

Not really at all... bush deals directly with them... its more like Bush making fun of One of the UN's g/fs.... whos only contribution to the sport/council is her LOLZ in her blog!

[Opie 308]

Not really at all... bush deals directly with them... its more like Bush making fun of One of the UN's g/fs.... whos only contribution to the sport/council is her LOLZ in her blog!

And he called her sloppy seconds!

[OsGOD 3]

And he called her sloppy seconds!

OH s***... you know i didn't even want to go there.... but you did... you so very much did

tisk tisk

[Guest Shoreline]

First off, I wasn't trying to offend you. Sorry if it came off that way.

You didn't offend me, no need to apologize.

Second, I'm not trying to prove he is banned from the league. I'm not asserting anything. It's a hypothetically posed question. If you reread the original post I made, the question I was posing was that if in fact he ends up banned via being blackballed from the league b/c nobody will take him, do you find that to be justifiable. And the other episodes he's been involved in shouldn't be given the weight they are now b/c none of those prior episodes were anything suspension worthy nor were they things that had people calling for his head on the chopping block. Essentially, this boils down to the sloppy seconds comment only. That is what has pushed this to the current level.

If no team takes him, that's not exactly the league's fault, is it? The league didn't spat off nonsense about other players' personal lives away from the game. He did.

Third, I'm not saying I sympathize or condone what he did. I don't think players need to make those kinds of statements. So please don't assume you know what I feel about it. Whereas I don't condone it, I feel that in the grand scheme of things it falls far down the list of things that I personally would see as more heinous and more worthy of the treatment Avery is now getting. Bertuzzi comes to mind right off the bat. There's an issue that made headlines all over and ended up in court. Yet I don't recall Bertuzzi garnering near the amount of scrutiny as Avery did and in one episode a man was nearly paralyzed and could've been killed and in the other a couple of people were the targets of offensive language by Avery. Personally, nearly paralyzing somebody seems like a bigger deal to me than words.

Bertuzzi got MUCH more scrutiny than Avery. People called him a monster, demanded he be banned from the game, and had NO sympathy for him when he was crying during his apology. The media everywhere was covering the Bertuzzi incident.. even local news channels that -never- cover hockey at all. Your memory here is not accurate.

I would ask you to step back for a second and get some perspective.

You're telling me this isn't a league for trash talking people's wives and girlfriends.

I dunno, I was watching the Canucks/Avs game when it happened. I watched the previous game too between the two teams and saw how pissed off Crawford was.

So what is it, a league for sucker punching and paralyzing people? It's a league for chopping people in the face with your stick? It's a league for breaking people's vertebra and leaving them in a crumpled heap to be replayed nationally, over and over again?

Of course it is. They were never punish-- oh wait, they were.

I just find it amusing that you think Avery has made this bed and therefore if nobody wants him then it's his fault.

Yeah, it's the league's fault. Avery shouldn't take responsibility for his own actions, right? What the f*** kind of logic is that? First you falsely say Bertuzzi didn't have nearly as much scrutiny, when he had WAY more, now you say it isn't Avery's fault if no team wants to deal with his s***? Are you serious?

Yet you have nothing to say about McSorely, Bertuzzi, Simon. I would think that you would be saying the same thing for those guys and that you would be up in arms that those players are/were still allowed to suit up for an NHL team. And your reasoning seems to be that "well, other teams want them so it's okay".

Yet you sure as hell cannot read.

Here is my post, from this very thread which you suggest I have nothing to say about them (just the previous page from this one ):

Well, besides going outside the bounds of sports and into the personal life realm (would be akin to Shaq calling Kobe's woman a *****.. wonder what the NBA would have done, or not, that's their league), the only other reason most media pays attention to the NHL is when a player goes out of their way to brutally attack another, either the way Bert did, or the way McSorley and others with the stick did. When people think of these moments are they proud of this? Is it given publicity in the HOF? The only people who would promote this as good for hockey don't really know how the game is played, nor do they care to see it maintain the sort of decorum it has, being a physical sport at that.

Is that your rationale for all of this? That Avery's lewd words are his own fault so if no team wants him then so be it.

But Bertuzzi nearly cripples somebody, ends their career but b/c other teams still wanted him it's okay to give that guy a pass and allow him to keep playing?

Like I said, it seems to me, in light of other instances the NHL has gone through, that a disproportionate amount of....i don't know what to really call it, is being levied upon Avery.

Well, first get your stuff straight, then we can continue the debate. You've been 100% wrong in your entire post, both in suggesting that the outrage for Bert was less than Avery (short term or selective memory), and suggesting I never even mentioned them. You should probably take your own advice and get some perspective here.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

At this point, I'd rather watch a game with Avery over one with Crosby. How's THAT for marketing?

Suck it NHL!

esteef