Avery comments & suspension

[Guest Shoreline]

At this point, I'd rather watch a game with Avery over one with Crosby. How's THAT for marketing?

Suck it NHL!

esteef

Maybe this ain't the league for you then. KHL ftw.

[esteef 2,679]

Maybe this ain't the league for you then. KHL ftw.

Is this how fanbases are gained? Crosby or get out?

Good Luck NHL.

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

Is this how fanbases are gained? Crosby or get out?

Good Luck NHL.

esteef

No, the problem is just with those like you who want to set the ultimatum.

Last I checked, Avery is still in the NHL. There's never been any logic to your argument.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

No, the problem is just with those like you who want to set the ultimatum.

Last I checked, Avery is still in the NHL. There's never been any logic to your argument.

Easy there Spock. My argument is well documented throughout this thread. My point here is that with this ridiculous Avery suspension, the league is basically telling its fans to accept boring ass player drones like Crosby or tuff titties, go watch something else. Well guess what? They will.

esteef

note: The boring here refers to their media presence, not their on-ice play, so don't go gettin' your panties bunched up about Crosby being "boring".

Edited December 9, 2008 by esteef

[Dabura 12,232]

Not really at all... bush deals directly with them

You know what I'm saying. Stop being a punk.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

If no team takes him, that's not exactly the league's fault, is it? The league didn't spat off nonsense about other players' personal lives away from the game. He did.

Way to miss the point. The point is whether or not, in comparison to other hockey related black eyes, it seems justifiable that Avery could lose his livelihood. If every team in the league says "no, we don't want Avery" simply for his mouth, does that not seem disproportionate to other hockey incidents.

Bertuzzi got MUCH more scrutiny than Avery. People called him a monster, demanded he be banned from the game, and had NO sympathy for him when he was crying during his apology. The media everywhere was covering the Bertuzzi incident.. even local news channels that -never- cover hockey at all. Your memory here is not accurate.

I guess I wasn't clear enough for you. In the immediate aftermath of the Bertuzzi incident did his coach throw him under the bus? Did his teammates throw him under the bus? Did his owner throw him under the bus? No, No and no again. What you're talking about is media scrutiny. That doesn't mean 2 s***s to me. The media don't control if Bertuzzi or Avery ever play again. The scrutiny and ill will Avery is getting from his own team/coach/owner/other teams is nothing like what Bertuzzi got. All he had was the Aves and the media in an uproar. So no, there's nothing wrong with my memory at all.

Of course it is. They were never punish-- oh wait, they were.

Did I say they weren't punished? Just posing a hypothetical. I guess hypotheticals are beyond you.

Yeah, it's the league's fault. Avery shouldn't take responsibility for his own actions, right? What the f*** kind of logic is that? First you falsely say Bertuzzi didn't have nearly as much scrutiny, when he had WAY more, now you say it isn't Avery's fault if no team wants to deal with his s***? Are you serious?

Who said it was the league's fault for Avery's actions? Don't be an ass for the sake of it. The rest of that paragraph is so off point I can't even throw you a life rope to get you back on board, you're too far gone.

Yet you sure as hell cannot read.

Here is my post, from this very thread which you suggest I have nothing to say about them (just the previous page from this one ):

And where in all of that did you answer the question I directly posed to you? You want to talk about things being funny? I don't think you having brain damage is anything to laugh about.

Let me dumb this down as much as possible so maybe you can keep up.

Not once have you addressed what I asked you.

You seem to be okay with all 30 NHL teams saying goodbye to Avery, effectively ending his career. It has not happened yet I know, just saying it as a hypothetical. But you seem to be okay with it.

So I simply ask you if that were to happen, do you not find that to be disporportionate to what other players have faced after giving the league a black eye? And no, you did not even in the slightest address this with your mention of Bertuzzi. You did nothing of the sort to address what I asked you.

I'm being a simplistic as I can for you so you can follow. But for some reason you're having difficulty. For that, I cannot help you. You can lead a horse to water I suppose....the rest is up to you to figure out.

Edited December 9, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Don't be an ass for the sake of it.

Bingo. Lot of that going on lately.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Maybe this ain't the league for you then. KHL ftw.

Fact of the matter is the majority of folks like Esteef, avid NHL fans and non were on the edge of their seat waiting to see what drama would have unfolded in the Dallas/Calgary game that night. That said, I think you will find yourself in the minorty of who would have rather not seen Avery play. The supporting arguement you have is that both you and the NHL hold the same position on Avery. I guess we can't question why it is a tier 3 sport in America and will continue to be when the league has such a disconnect with a majority of fans.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Bingo. Lot of that going on lately.

I do my fair share of course. But i'm seriously just trying to get an answer from Shoreline.

I mean, how hard is it to address what i'm asking him.

I dunno, maybe i'm the crazy one but hypothetically speaking, should every end up being out of the NHL for this and his other "stunts", I would find that extremely unjust considering Todd Bertuzzi is still in the NHL for example.

And everybody is oh, so sorry for the Stars. WTF are the Stars so pissed off about prior to this? Avery was one of their more consistent players. From what i've heard in reports the only problems they've had with Avery have to do with him being an isolationist and hanging in the locker room by himself, listening to his ipod instead of being jovial with everyone.

From where i'm sitting, the Stars are a bunch of ******* shmucks that have the misfortune of being laden with injuries.

Maybe some of them don't like Avery prior to this ,but they way they threw him under the bus and tried to distance themselves so quickly just screamed to me that these clowns, like Turco, were just aching to pound blood from a stone and get the scrutiny off of their s*** ass record and terrible play.

Edited December 9, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Well, besides going outside the bounds of sports and into the personal life realm (would be akin to Shaq calling Kobe's woman a *****.. wonder what the NBA would have done, or not, that's their league), the only other reason most media pays attention to the NHL is when a player goes out of their way to brutally attack another, either the way Bert did, or the way McSorley and others with the stick did. When people think of these moments are they proud of this? Is it given publicity in the HOF? The only people who would promote this as good for hockey don't really know how the game is played, nor do they care to see it maintain the sort of decorum it has, being a physical sport at that.

A lot of people will watch local news/highlights that would've shown the comments Avery made. Casual hockey fans would say to themselves, wow, I want to see this game now. I know I did when I first heard the comments.

In this case, this is good publicity for the league because it is getting more viewers. For the record the Bertuzzi/Mcsorley incidents are 10000000X times worse than what Avery did and they are getting similar media attention which is bulls***.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Fact of the matter is the majority of folks like Esteef, avid NHL fans and non were on the edge of their seat waiting to see what drama would have unfolded in the Dallas/Calgary game that night. That said, I think you will find yourself in the minorty of who would have rather not seen Avery play. The supporting arguement you have is that both you and the NHL hold the same position on Avery. I guess we can't question why it is a tier 3 sport in America and will continue to be when the league has such a disconnect with a majority of fans.

Dude, give up. Shoreline has comprehension problems and an inability to think outside the box. Hypotheticals are beyond him for some reason and he has trouble answering direct questions.

[lets go pavel 2]

I do my fair share of course. But i'm seriously just trying to get an answer from Shoreline.

I mean, how hard is it to address what i'm asking him.

I dunno, maybe i'm the crazy one but hypothetically speaking, should every end up being out of the NHL for this and his other "stunts", I would find that extremely unjust considering Todd Bertuzzi is still in the NHL for example.

I think the problem with your hypothetical is that it assumes that "this and other stunts" is why he may never play again. But if he doesn't play again, it's because noone wants him. As forgiving as this league is ... as you pointed out with Bertuzzi ... it would be very surprising if that happens, but if it does, it clearly goes well beyond simply this incident and the others like it, and has more to do with Avery as a team/lockerroom presence.

Had the league banished him for life over this incident then yes, that would be grossly unfair. However, if teams decide they don't want him, that has everything to do with Sean Avery.

[Guest Shoreline]

Easy there Spock. My argument is well documented throughout this thread. My point here is that with this ridiculous Avery suspension, the league is basically telling its fans to accept boring ass player drones like Crosby or tuff titties, go watch something else. Well guess what? They will.

esteef

note: The boring here refers to their media presence, not their on-ice play, so don't go gettin' your panties bunched up about Crosby being "boring".

Strange, I'm not defending Crosby, nor have I cared one way or another about anyone's obsession regarding him. Weird thing is, I think I watch maybe 5 Penguin games a year. I watch some 60+ Red Wings games a year. I don't see how the league is telling me what to watch. I don't watch Versus, I don't watch NBC, unless it has the Wings or a matchup I find interesting enough to watch. 90%+ of the time, it doesn't involve Crosby, despite the fact that their team is indeed pretty exciting with all of the talent they have.

I dunno what you expect for them to do in the media for you, though. Dance on a table? Be like the Godfather and have one "ho" on each side as they get out of their car and walk to the arena, while spouting off to the media trash talking each other before the event? You haven't quite elaborated on the bigger picture of the type of entertainment you're suggesting is perfectly okay. One that is the premise behind the WWE.

Way to miss the point. The point is whether or not, in comparison to other hockey related black eyes, it seems justifiable that Avery could lose his livelihood. If every team in the league says "no, we don't want Avery" simply for his mouth, does that not seem disproportionate to other hockey incidents.

That's up to each of the 30 teams, then eh? There's many different reasons teams don't pick up certain players. Maybe they don't have the skills desired, maybe they are too much of a locker room or media liability and don't want a distraction to other players on the team where the game is played -- on the ice.

I guess I wasn't clear enough for you. In the immediate aftermath of the Bertuzzi incident did his coach throw him under the bus? Did his teammates throw him under the bus? Did his owner throw him under the bus? No, No and no again. What you're talking about is media scrutiny. That doesn't mean 2 s***s to me. The media don't control if Bertuzzi or Avery ever play again. The scrutiny and ill will Avery is getting from his own team/coach/owner/other teams is nothing like what Bertuzzi got. All he had was the Aves and the media in an uproar. So no, there's nothing wrong with my memory at all.

After Crawford's initial defense, he threw Bert under the bus saying he did it on his own. The only support Bert got was from his teammates during that game, and from the 2nd previous game where the Moore/Naslund incident took place. Both of which I had watched.

Who said it was the league's fault for Avery's actions? Don't be an ass for the sake of it. The rest of that paragraph is so off point I can't even throw you a life rope to get you back on board, you're too far gone.

Hey, you want to assert that it ain't Avery's fault no team may want to sign him, which is horse s***. I even suggested earlier in this thread some other team may want him. Clearly not the Dallas Stars.

And where in all of that did you answer the question I directly posed to you? You want to talk about things being funny? I don't think you having brain damage is anything to laugh about.

Hey, you flat out said I never mentioned Bert or McSorley. I show you you're wrong, and I have brain damage. Funny how being right causes someone to have brain damage. What would being wrong be called, then?

You seem to be okay with all 30 NHL teams saying goodbye to Avery, effectively ending his career. It has not happened yet I know, just saying it as a hypothetical. But you seem to be okay with it.

I'm okay with each team deciding for themselves what's best for them, not some fan. You have yet to show how this choice was ever taken away. Still waiting..

So I simply ask you if that were to happen, do you not find that to be disporportionate to what other players have faced after giving the league a black eye? And no, you did not even in the slightest address this with your mention of Bertuzzi. You did nothing of the sort to address what I asked you.

No, it's not disproportionate, and I've "addressed" this several times now regarding the reaction to the league deciding it isn't acceptable, and clearly other teams still welcomed back at least one of them, while at least McSorley was not wanted by any other NHL team after the incident.. rightfully so. I even addressed it yet again in the last post, which you just conveniently ignored once again. So making suggestions without reading is your thing, so be it, not my problem. I don't need to be a broken record and keep re-asserting over and over again to make up for your inability to read.

The rest of your post, which was worthless, I removed and not even going to give any sort of credence by quoting. At least try to stay on topic.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[Guest Shoreline]

A lot of people will watch local news/highlights that would've shown the comments Avery made. Casual hockey fans would say to themselves, wow, I want to see this game now. I know I did when I first heard the comments.

In this case, this is good publicity for the league because it is getting more viewers. For the record the Bertuzzi/Mcsorley incidents are 10000000X times worse than what Avery did and they are getting similar media attention which is bulls***.

Weird. I don't see Sean Avery as part of a Headline News broadcast, or even excessively covered on ESPNews, which can, otherwise, barely make time for hockey as it is. Hey, guess what guys, Todd Bertuzzi's incident was good for the league. Look at all the attention the NHL was getting. Alright everyone, start pummeling each other on the ice. No publicity is bad publicity, and all that jazz.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[OsGOD 3]

Well i know the radio stations around here 89X and WRIF both use the "sloppy seconds" sounds bites from aves...

I actually saw it on Channel 4 local news sports section that day after it happened.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

I do my fair share of course. But i'm seriously just trying to get an answer from Shoreline.

I mean, how hard is it to address what i'm asking him.

Hope you don't think I was doggin you. I wasn't. I think I gotta focus on being more clear.

from what i've seen he won't acknowledge it. it's not his intention to answer questions. just from what i've seen. though i may be mistaken.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

One thing is for sure, the Dallas Stars get my vote as the whiniest team in sports and a team that I wouldn't want to play for when the s*** was hitting the fan.

I'd sure like to know what other things Avery did in his short stint there to piss people off that way. I hope his so-called teammates aren't jumping on him just for this one incident.

I think the fairest thing to do is to bring him back, and to strip Morrow of the captaincy and give it to Avery. Then the team would rally around him.

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Weird. I don't see Sean Avery as part of a Headline News broadcast, or even excessively covered on ESPNews, which can, otherwise, barely make time for hockey as it is. Hey, guess what guys, Todd Bertuzzi's incident was good for the league. Look at all the attention the NHL was getting. Alright everyone, start pummeling each other on the ice. No publicity is bad publicity, and all that jazz.

There's quite a difference between what Sean said and what Bertuzzi did. You're really taking it to the extreme when you are lumping these two occurences in the same boat, hence which may explain your viewpoint on the incident. I respect your opinion, but do me one favor and never in any post in the future complain about the lack of exposure or how the league is getting treated like a step child by the ESPNs of the world.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Weird. I don't see Sean Avery as part of a Headline News broadcast, or even excessively covered on ESPNews, which can, otherwise, barely make time for hockey as it is. Hey, guess what guys, Todd Bertuzzi's incident was good for the league. Look at all the attention the NHL was getting. Alright everyone, start pummeling each other on the ice. No publicity is bad publicity, and all that jazz.

Big difference.

The Bertuzzi incident made people convinced that hockey was an ultra-violent sport with cheapshots where anything goes.

The Avery soundbite probably raised eyebrows from people who didn't even know that hockey players were ever interviewed, or could even speak English for that matter.

As I stated in an earlier post, reporters in Dallas would rather interview Avery then someone like Brenden Morrow or Jere Lehtinen. No one in the media should care what those guys are going to say, since it'll probably be boring and predictable like most sports interviews are.

Avery is like a Charles Barkley, in that the media will flock around him to hear what he'll say. That's what hockey needs more of.

[lets go pavel 2]

Big difference.

The Bertuzzi incident made people convinced that hockey was an ultra-violent sport with cheapshots where anything goes.

The Avery soundbite probably raised eyebrows from people who didn't even know that hockey players were ever interviewed, or could even speak English for that matter.

As I stated in an earlier post, reporters in Dallas would rather interview Avery then someone like Brenden Morrow or Jere Lehtinen. No one in the media should care what those guys are going to say, since it'll probably be boring and predictable like most sports interviews are.

Avery is like a Charles Barkley, in that the media will flock around him to hear what he'll say. That's what hockey needs more of.

Actually, Avery reminds me quite a bit of Dennis Rodman. Love him or hate him, he was great publicity for the NBA, he brought crowds in the door (often to hate him, but the world needs villains too), brought energy to games, and he could play the game.

[Guest Shoreline]

One thing is for sure, the Dallas Stars get my vote as the whiniest team in sports and a team that I wouldn't want to play for when the s*** was hitting the fan.

I'd sure like to know what other things Avery did in his short stint there to piss people off that way. I hope his so-called teammates aren't jumping on him just for this one incident.

I think the fairest thing to do is to bring him back, and to strip Morrow of the captaincy and give it to Avery. Then the team would rally around him.

Last sentence aside, I kinda think embarrassing your teammates and putting them and the organization in a position to answer for your selfish personal jab at a player's girlfriend would pretty much be the equivalent of hanging yourself in a professional league. It doesn't take much to get the media to go apes***, and it's clear the Stars players nor the management want to have anything to do with it. If anything, I don't see what they did as whining, as it was them coming closer as a team, even if it included using Avery as a scapegoat for their poor performance.

[Guest Shoreline]

There's quite a difference between what Sean said and what Bertuzzi did. You're really taking it to the extreme when you are lumping these two occurences in the same boat, hence which may explain your viewpoint on the incident. I respect your opinion, but do me one favor and never in any post in the future complain about the lack of exposure or how the league is getting treated like a step child by the ESPNs of the world.

I was just called out on a previous post (falsely at that) for NOT mentioning McSorley and Bertuzzi.

[esteef 2,679]

Strange, I'm not defending Crosby, nor have I cared one way or another about anyone's obsession regarding him. Weird thing is, I think I watch maybe 5 Penguin games a year. I watch some 60+ Red Wings games a year. I don't see how the league is telling me what to watch. I don't watch Versus, I don't watch NBC, unless it has the Wings or a matchup I find interesting enough to watch. 90%+ of the time, it doesn't involve Crosby, despite the fact that their team is indeed pretty exciting with all of the talent they have.

I dunno what you expect for them to do in the media for you, though. Dance on a table? Be like the Godfather and have one "ho" on each side as they get out of their car and walk to the arena, while spouting off to the media trash talking each other before the event? You haven't quite elaborated on the bigger picture of the type of entertainment you're suggesting is perfectly okay. One that is the premise behind the WWE.

Crosby was just an example of the NHL's current lineup of boring stars. You can insert pretty much any other NHL player's name there. The point is, the league, with this suspension, is essentially saying we want our players to talk and act like Crosby, (the NHL's current poster child), not Avery. Most of the country, which is where the league is trying to grow, don't give two s***s about what boring ass Crosby or any other player like him has to say. Players like Crosby are safe and PC, nothing exciting, nothing to attract attention. Diversity anyone?

What I want the NHL to do is not stamp out every opportunity to inject some life and color into itself. Where are the Roenick's, the Hull's of today? Where's a character people can root for, or against? That's what makes it fun! But stuff like this happens and the league can't seem to figure out why the NFL, NBA, etc continue to stomp them in the ratings and fanbase size.

esteef

[Guest Shoreline]

Crosby was just an example of the NHL's current lineup of boring stars. You can insert pretty much any other NHL player's name there. The point is, the league, with this suspension, is essentially saying we want our players to talk and act like Crosby, (the NHL's current poster child), not Avery. Most of the country, which is where the league is trying to grow, don't give two s***s about what boring ass Crosby or any other player like him has to say. Players like Crosby are safe and PC, nothing exciting, nothing to attract attention. Diversity anyone?

What I want the NHL to do is not stamp out every opportunity to inject some life and color into itself. Where are the Roenick's, the Hull's of today? Where's a character people can root for, or against? That's what makes it fun! But stuff like this happens and the league can't seem to figure out why the NFL, NBA, etc continue to stomp them in the ratings and fanbase size.

esteef

Despite your claims of boring, he attracts fans, which speaks much louder than a claim of boring. I watch him play and he's a playmaker. Very few teams can contain him, or both him and Malkin. It's not that I love PC (actually, I hate it), but one thing I dislike just as much is people who like to indulge in a bashing obsessions (Crosby, Bettman) so much so that they make crappy arguments that plain-as-day come from said obsession.

If you're bored by the stars who play great hockey and don't go out of their way to create sleazy entertainment to keep your attention, maybe the NHL isn't for you after all.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

Despite your claims of boring, he attracts fans, which speaks much louder than a claim of boring. I watch him play and he's a playmaker. Very few teams can contain him, or both him and Malkin. It's not that I love PC (actually, I hate it), but one thing I dislike just as much is people who like to indulge in a bashing obsessions (Crosby, Bettman) so much so that they make crappy arguments that plain-as-day come from said obsession.

If you're bored by the stars who play great hockey and don't go out of their way to create sleazy entertainment to keep your attention, maybe the NHL isn't for you after all.

Once again, not talking about on-ice play here, which you so conveniently keep going back to. On-ice play doesn't attract fans, if it did, the NHL would be a lot more popular. Potential fans don't grow up playing hockey in the US (for the most part), they don't know the rules, the strategy, etc that would enhance their game watching experience. That's why they like the big hits, the fights, the characters in the media, it's s*** they can understand and relate to. Maybe a shock jock such as Avery, might be enough of an attraction to keep them around long enough to learn the game and become a true fan of the game. Potential fans probably think the league is even more silly now for suspending a player for saying "sloppy seconds" in the media in comparison to what NFL, NBA players say/get in trouble for.

esteef