Avery comments & suspension

[IceMunkee 15]

You been drinking again, dog?

Lol. Not tonight. During the game the intermission reports were saying that Dallas was going to make a statement regarding Avery today...

[Doggy 130]

Yeah bro it's on the last page. Also on NHL.com.

[IceMunkee 15]

WOW!!! I am completely shocked. So they truly think the injuries and sloppy play from Turco was all Avery's fault. This has got to make Dallas look bad as an organization, right? Am I the only one that thinks this makes them look like tools.

I wonder if Avery came here he would calm the off ice theatrics down. Not saying we should sign him but dammit I want to see some violance. Am I so wrong?!?!

[Doggy 130]

WOW!!! I am completely shocked. So they truly think the injuries and sloppy play from Turco was all Avery's fault. This has got to make Dallas look bad as an organization, right? Am I the only one that thinks this makes them look like tools.

I wonder if Avery came here he would calm the off ice theatrics down. Not saying we should sign him but dammit I want to see some violance. Am I so wrong?!?!

They did it because it's pretty clear no-one within the organisation wants to play with Sean Avery. There is no fathomable way, letting him come back could be benificial for the team.

[IceMunkee 15]

I agree. I just want to see some damn fights! I honestly would not want him in the winged wheel.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Yeah, Hully must have been brainwashed by Bettman when he went to visit him. How in the world would the Stars, their management, or their team know what's best for winning when we (by "we" I mean all the obsessive, "f*** Bettman" people) have all the answers?

Yeah, all those times Tippett had Avery in the press box and prior to Zubov and Morrow and others going down, all I heard from the Stars was how they wouldn't be in this spot if they could get rid of Avery.

IMO, the Stars are playing their holier than thou card despite what I think they would've done if they were 24-3-2 like the Sharks. Of course they did mention that Avery was pretty much a loner in the locker room which I could understand would turn teammates off. Still, prior to this, not one peep out of the Stars management, owner, coach or players in the negative regarding Avery.

But apparently now the Stars have come to Jesus and are all about winning hockey games. The Stars are f***ed. They have too many injuries and too many guys not playing well enough. They lose Ott, Morrow and now Avery. Another dimension to their team is now completely gone save Krys Barch. Avery may have been a bad apple in the locker room, but he was producing at about the same rate of points he has the past 3 years. He was getting it done on the ice, one of the few Stars who actually was.

So you can keep falling on your we just don't like Bettman crutch but get with it already. The Stars are using this episode to heap everything that's wrong with that team upon Avery's shoulders and send him packing.

The Stars are not holier than thou. The Stars are not the beacon of light in the NHL. They are jumping on the opportunity that Avery provided them. Them not liking Avery is one thing. Them thinking they're a better hockey team w/o Avery is another. They're not a very good hockey team right now and that's got very little to do with Sean Avery.

[Guest Shoreline]

Hull is a selfish prick too when you think about it. This clearly demonstrates he is more interested in doing his own job effectively rather than providing entertainment to thr bored regulars of LGW. It's just rude.

Not only that but how could Avery possibly be a poison to his team? Look at his stats. That shows how the all-important personal stats are, and how stats defines leadership and team roles. I mean, that's why the Wings chose to dump Yzerman and offer Fedorov some 12m/yr contract, amirite?

[Opie 308]

Dallas coach Dave Tippett was furious because Avery defied him by even speaking to those reporters. The next day, Tippett made it clear he didn't want Avery back, as did team leaders Mike Modano and Marty Turco.

This makes a little more sense on the Dallas front, they appear to be basing this off of his interactions with his own team and his inability to be a part of the team.

Where as the league suspended him to long for his words.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yeah, all those times Tippett had Avery in the press box and prior to Zubov and Morrow and others going down, all I heard from the Stars was how they wouldn't be in this spot if they could get rid of Avery.

IMO, the Stars are playing their holier than thou card despite what I think they would've done if they were 24-3-2 like the Sharks. Of course they did mention that Avery was pretty much a loner in the locker room which I could understand would turn teammates off. Still, prior to this, not one peep out of the Stars management, owner, coach or players in the negative regarding Avery.

But apparently now the Stars have come to Jesus and are all about winning hockey games. The Stars are f***ed. They have too many injuries and too many guys not playing well enough. They lose Ott, Morrow and now Avery. Another dimension to their team is now completely gone save Krys Barch. Avery may have been a bad apple in the locker room, but he was producing at about the same rate of points he has the past 3 years. He was getting it done on the ice, one of the few Stars who actually was.

So you can keep falling on your we just don't like Bettman crutch but get with it already. The Stars are using this episode to heap everything that's wrong with that team upon Avery's shoulders and send him packing.

The Stars are not holier than thou. The Stars are not the beacon of light in the NHL. They are jumping on the opportunity that Avery provided them. Them not liking Avery is one thing. Them thinking they're a better hockey team w/o Avery is another. They're not a very good hockey team right now and that's got very little to do with Sean Avery.

How exactly are they doing that?

I haven't seen any quotes from anyone affiliated with the Stars that links Avery's douchebaggery to their problems winning games. Actually, you guys in this thread are the main ones I've seen making that connection. Even the articles I've read point out that the Star's main problems winning games have little to do with Avery.

And you complain about the Stars criticizing Avery to the press, but also point out how there wasn't a peep out of them earlier, when there clearly was problems. So you're condemning them both for keeping it under wraps, and now complaining publicly? How should they have handled it when they've been having problems with Avery, then he pulls off that rehearsed move and gets suspended by the league. He made it a public issue. Not them.

You can say that the Stars are acting holier than thou, but it looks more to me like you guys are making Avery some sort of martyr for all that's wrong with the league.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

How exactly are they doing that?

I haven't seen any quotes from anyone affiliated with the Stars that links Avery's douchebaggery to their problems winning games. Actually, you guys in this thread are the main ones I've seen making that connection. Even the articles I've read point out that the Star's main problems winning games have little to do with Avery.

And you complain about the Stars criticizing Avery to the press, but also point out how there wasn't a peep out of them earlier, when there clearly was problems. So you're condemning them both for keeping it under wraps, and now complaining publicly? How should they have handled it when they've been having problems with Avery, then he pulls off that rehearsed move and gets suspended by the league. He made it a public issue. Not them.

You can say that the Stars are acting holier than thou, but it looks more to me like you guys are making Avery some sort of martyr for all that's wrong with the league.

I'm absolutely condemning the Stars for their behavior. First off, if Avery was such a problem in the locker room, Tippett, Modano, Morrow and the others should've handled it. Tippett could've sent any message he wanted to Avery, including benching his ass. But he didn't. Personally, if Avery was being a cancer in the locker room the Stars should've addressed that. Whether it be publicly or whatever isn't up to me. But they didn't address it. They waited until Avery put his head up there on a silver platter and then they pulled the lever and let the chopping block come down.

I'm not saying Avery is a martyr. All i'm saying is my opinion is that what he did amounts to a hill of beans and the league overreacted. Does that now equal martyrdom Harold? I don't think so.

And i'm not saying the Stars are publicly saying anything about the reason they were losing was tied directly to Avery. I'm saying that's the impression i'm getting due to their lack of any public mention of issues with Avery and the lack of any internal team discipline aimed at getting him on board with the team. If Avery was such a problem, they should've done something about it earlier. What i'm implying here is that by not doing anything, and now jumping on the bandwagon and essentially running him out of town, appearances are that they're using his as a scapegoat. At least that's the impression that I get. It's not a fact and shouldn't be taken as such. It's merely my opinion of the situation.

[Opie 308]

GS&T,

Look at my last post, Tippett specifically told Avery to not go to the reporters, he went to the reporters and got himself suspended. Tippett tried to control him, Avery refused.

Avery defied him, who knows if Tippett would have benched him, he had no chance the league stepped in too quickly for the Stars to do anything about it. It appears players have talked to him about his practice habits, that hasn't helped.

What more do you want them to do?

Stop bashing him in the media, stop taking the chance to blame your losing ways on Avery. Sure I will give you those, Turco should be sending Avery a huge Christmas gift for hiding his lackluster (being nice) play.

But I think the teams hands are tied, I would love to see the guys in the locker room step up and say what happens at practice stays at practice, but I would also like to see Avery shut up, neither of those are happening from this point on.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T,

Look at my last post, Tippett specifically told Avery to not go to the reporters, he went to the reporters and got himself suspended. Tippett tried to control him, Avery refused.

Avery defied him, who knows if Tippett would have benched him, he had no chance the league stepped in too quickly for the Stars to do anything about it. It appears players have talked to him about his practice habits, that hasn't helped.

What more do you want them to do?

Stop bashing him in the media, stop taking the chance to blame your losing ways on Avery. Sure I will give you those, Turco should be sending Avery a huge Christmas gift for hiding his lackluster (being nice) play.

But I think the teams hands are tied, I would love to see the guys in the locker room step up and say what happens at practice stays at practice, but I would also like to see Avery shut up, neither of those are happening from this point on.

Opie, by that I assume you're talking about Tippet telling him not to talk to reports prior to the Flames game? I don't know anything about that so i'll take your word for it. But that's not what i'm talking about.

What i'm talking about is the couple of months and 20 some odd games they played prior to the "sloppy debacle 08".

Here's my theory on the whole thing. Avery wasn't buddy, buddy in the locker room, other players didn't like him, maybe Tippet didn't even like him, but they sure didn't do anything about it prior to the Flames game. Tippett didn't bench Avery for his inability to do practice drills did he? Tippett didn't send him to the press box b/c he spent all his time in the locker room on his computer, listening to his ipod instead of making friends with everyone did he? Like I said, it's just my opinion but I truly believe the Stars players and Tippett, as much as they hated Avery, sure didn't do much internally to fix what they say was a huge problem now.

Then he mouths off, gets suspended and the Stars start ripping him and finding anything negative they can say about him personally like how he did drills or mentioning his ipod, etcc....It's like they used this opportunity to air all the dirty laundry they had against Avery.

Now i'm not saying Avery wasn't the ****** they're all making him out to be. I just find it sort of s***ty to pile up on him now. If they had all these problems with him for the 1st quarter of the season, then ******* deal with it. Bench his ass. Put him in the press box. Have the team leaders sit him aside and say "******* be a part of this team or else!", whatever. At least address this so-called problem teammate then.

But they didn't. They waited for sloppy seconds to rear its ugly head and then they piled every damned thing they could onto the fire and threw the guy under the bus. And to me, that appears like they saw the opportunity to shed light on what a bad teammate he was and get the spotlight off of how s***ty they are as a team and how bad they suck and they ran with it.

Hey, if Avery was an awful teammate then so be it. But ******* man up and get the guy in line. What are the Stars, a bunch of rookies with no leadership that could've tried to straighten the guy out? Where was Tippett during that time? Why didn't Tippett handle all the "issues".

IMO, the Stars hated him and maybe rightfully so. But I don't buy the holier than thou card they played after he got suspended. I think they breathed a collective sigh of relief when Avery gave them the opportunity to pound the guy right out of town and they ran with it. They didn't run with it b/c the Stars are such a ******* great, honorable organization. They ran with it b/c it took the spotlight away from their s***ty ass play and it was their opportunity to get rid of their "locker room cancer".

I'm just flat out not buying their holier than thou crap. They saw a chance to kill 2 birds with 1 stone and the took it. That's all i'm saying. Doesn't mean I don't think Avery was a ******. Just that I think the Stars are a bunch of candy assess and self-serving hypocrites.

Edited December 15, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[puckloo39 5,686]

^^^

You actually make some good points. Avery was a pup with training wheels when he was a Wing in 2002, and I am sure hasn't changed all that much over time. But I am willing to bet that the vets like Shanny and Stevie, not to mention Scotty, saw to it that he stayed in line.

I tend to agree with you that the Stars saw an opportunity to dump Avery, with "good reasons" on their sides. That said, if he was a locker room cancer and out of control, they might have had good reasons. I suspect (JMO) that the reason Avery ever came to Dallas was 100% Brett Hull's doing. He should have stood up for his buddy, if that's the case. I notice he didn't. I never have thought all that highly of Hull as a person, anyway -- but who knows if he was even involved in all of this.

It sure seems like the Stars took out their frustration at being a bottom feeder (not all their fault, lots of injuries, etc.) on Avery, however. Let's see if they magically get better without him.

[Opie 308]

GS&T,

You will get no disagreement from me in regards to what has been said by the players after the incident, they are being immature.

The quote I have is from this Link.

I go back to the fact that I don't believe it had anything to do with what he said, but the fact he brought his side show antics from the ice to the media. I can not believe the term sloppy seconds gets you black balled from the league. I just think it is a compilation of the Brodeur thing and past issues and the league wanted to stop it.

My problem with that is they took control away from the stars, they didn't give the team a chance to take action, the league stepped in and now the Stars are on damage control.

[Dabura 12,232]

All i'm saying is my opinion is that what he did amounts to a hill of beans

Feel free to read my posts, folks. No, really. They don't bite.

[Dabura 12,232]

For all those folks who constantly preach sports is "business", that was a dumb "business" decision. Avery is still a good player, antics or not.

1. In terms of good business practices, looking only at the number of tickets the Stars may or may not sell is not looking at the big picture. It's a concern, yes, but there are concerns that take precedence, such as what potential (or current) corporate partners (in a f***ed economy) might think of supporting a league that sees nothing wrong with one of its most visible players staging a publicity stunt in which he calls his ex-girlfriend an offensive (maybe not to you or me, but that's not the point) name in the national media (in an age when being politically correct is paramount). In this sense, not suspending him would have been riskier. Avery will be back and bygones will be bygones. But if Bettman hadn't acted, both the people whose money keeps this league afloat and many of the new fans the league is trying to court would have raised their eyebrows. That's a big picture concern. Losing Avery for six games, not so much.

2. Avery is an utterly replaceable player who only gets the attention he does because of his antics.

[Dabura 12,232]

It's also worth noting that he's arguably getting more exposure during his suspension than he was when he was playing. So there's really no argument that taking him off the ice like this is robbing the league of the oh-so-crucial Avery factor. In a way, it's a "best of both worlds" situation; the PC police are pleased, and Avery's still getting exposure.

[lets go pavel 2]

It's also worth noting that he's arguably getting more exposure during his suspension than he was when he was playing. So there's really no argument that taking him off the ice like this is robbing the league of the oh-so-crucial Avery factor. In a way, it's a "best of both worlds" situation; the PC police are pleased, and Avery's still getting exposure.

The only difference is that had he been allowed to play, the attention would have had people tuning in to watch the games he was playing, and potentially getting his ass beat in (Calgary game anyway). Now, he still gets attention but it's solely on him because he's not playing.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T,

You will get no disagreement from me in regards to what has been said by the players after the incident, they are being immature.

The quote I have is from this Link.

I go back to the fact that I don't believe it had anything to do with what he said, but the fact he brought his side show antics from the ice to the media. I can not believe the term sloppy seconds gets you black balled from the league. I just think it is a compilation of the Brodeur thing and past issues and the league wanted to stop it.

My problem with that is they took control away from the stars, they didn't give the team a chance to take action, the league stepped in and now the Stars are on damage control.

I'm with you. They should've let the Stars handle this internally. If the Stars were such a proud organization then they would have addressed this (as they claim they would) w/o Bettman having to get involved.

But once Bettman did get involved you're 100% correct when you say it's about damage control. And that's the key here in my opinion. It has never been about the Stars being proud and bustin' out the holier than thou. It was about spin, about damage control and about distancing themselves from Avery as quickly as possible. And the added nugget was they got to finally air out their hatred for Avery and run him out of there. It was a 2 for 1 blue light special and they took it. I don't blame them but I don't buy their crap either.

Of course the flip side to all of this is apparently the Stars weren't dealing with Avery anyway. He wasn't facing any team discipline for his locker room behavior or his inability to do drills or mesh with the team so who knows what they would've done.

Of course the whole thing doesn't become a circus if Bettman doesn't rush in and suspend him. IMO, it would've definitely gone down as one of the best trash talking episodes ever and probably played out into some seriously entertaining drama on the ice that night. But we'll never know now.

[Opie 308]

Then to sum this up:

This whole situation is a complete and utter mess!!

/thread!

[esteef 2,679]

1. In terms of good business practices, looking only at the number of tickets the Stars may or may not sell is not looking at the big picture. It's a concern, yes, but there are concerns that take precedence, such as what potential (or current) corporate partners (in a f***ed economy) might think of supporting a league that sees nothing wrong with one of its most visible players staging a publicity stunt in which he calls his ex-girlfriend an offensive (maybe not to you or me, but that's not the point) name in the national media (in an age when being politically correct is paramount). In this sense, not suspending him would have been riskier. Avery will be back and bygones will be bygones. But if Bettman hadn't acted, both the people whose money keeps this league afloat and many of the new fans the league is trying to court would have raised their eyebrows. That's a big picture concern. Losing Avery for six games, not so much.

2. Avery is an utterly replaceable player who only gets the attention he does because of his antics.

Oh please! Now we're worried about corporate interests? You think "corporate partners" give a s*** about what Avery says more than their teams actually winning games?! Avery is a good player and has produced on every team he's been on. Kicking a player off your team because he mouthed off in the media is retarded no matter what league we're talking about. Nobody says "do nothing" to Avery, but a 6 game suspension is way too high, and running him completely out of Dallas on top of that is a ridiculous overreation. By the way, do you have any "proof" of this worry of corporate sponsorship due to Avery's antics? You get more obsurd with every page of this thread.

f*** Dallas!

esteef

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Oh please! Now we're worried about corporate interests? You think "corporate partners" give a s*** about what Avery says more than their teams actually winning games?! Avery is a good player and has produced on every team he's been on. Kicking a player off your team because he mouthed off in the media is retarded no matter what league we're talking about. Nobody says "do nothing" to Avery, but a 6 game suspension is way too high, and running him completely out of Dallas on top of that is a ridiculous overreation. By the way, do you have any "proof" of this worry of corporate sponsorship due to Avery's antics? You get more obsurd with every page of this thread.

f*** Dallas!

esteef

What's funny is the NFL has a rule specifically forbidding players and coaches from attacking the integrity of officials. Yet how many times do they do it? You can't even add up all the players who've been fined this season for bad mouthing the officiating during press conferences even though they know they aren't supposed to.

So what do these NFL guys get for repeatedly questioning the very integrity of the guys who call the game? They get fines. Question integrity of game = get fined.

Make sexually explicit comment about ex girlfriends = 6 game suspension.

Can you say...............................overreaction

[Guest Shoreline]

Can you say...............................overreaction

Nope.

They were politically correct in not actually taking steps necessary to ensure this type of occurrence doesn't happen again.

Six games is s***, and so is any sort of semi-voluntary "anger management" evaluation.

It makes me doubt the NHL's sincerity for unprecedented actions it considers 'detrimental'. No reason to half-ass it.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Shoreline

[lets go pavel 2]

Nope.

They were politically correct in not actually taking steps necessary to ensure this type of occurrence doesn't happen again.

Six games is s***, and so is any sort of semi-voluntary "anger management" evaluation.

It makes me doubt the NHL's sincerity for unprecedented actions it considers 'detrimental'. No reason to half-ass it.

Are you saying 6 games wasn't severe enough? What punishment did you want to see?

[Swayze 81]

It's not an overreaction because in all truth this suspension wasn't just for the comments, it was about all the dumb stuff he's done over the years. Bettman just used this to suspend him because they had concrete proof that he broke a rule this time, whereas things like the Brodeur incident didn't technically have a rule against it. (Bettman even said this himself).

Quote from Bettman:

"I'm not entirely surprised it got to this point," Bettman told NHL.com in an exclusive interview Dec. 5. "There was nothing until this point that we felt we could punish either because the conduct didn't rise to that level or because we couldn't verify in terms that would make us comfortable in a matter of due process that it actually happened."

And the article on it:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=398063

Edited December 15, 2008 by Swayze