Red Wings Shuffle Line Combos, Defense Pairs

[rick zombo 3,739]

What I think some of you might be missing is that Franzen has been dogging it a bit the last two or three games. This is a nice wake-up call for The Mule.

Not that there should be any panic.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I think a lot of us agree that it is a little strange that the ZDH line got broken up with how well it did last year. If we kept that line together I think a good second line would be Hudler-Franzen-Hossa. It's just sick with our front 14 the good line combinations that we can come up with.

[Casey 145]

I'm not a big fan of Flip-Dats-Homer ... there's no natural shooter on the line. I am happy to see some shuffling, but I'm still holding out for ZDH. If we're looking to put a jump in our game, I don't think there's a better combo for it ... maybe something like:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Cleary-Filppula-Hossa

Hudler-Franzen-Samuelsson

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

or maybe switch Franzen with Cleary or Flip ...

YES. GIVE ME THIS, BABCOCK.

Cobra Commander compels you!

[thedatsyukian 7]

I don't like the top line at all. Maybe this is an attempt to not only get datsyuk to start shooting more but to gauge what filp is capable of.

Edited December 9, 2008 by thedatsyukian

[StayStevieStay 0]

Babcock likes to pretend that D-Z-H is not a line throughout the season ...

come playoffs the other teams forget about that line and by then they're pretty much screwed...

[clayjoh 3]

I don't like the top line at all. Maybe this is an attempt to not only get datsyuk to start shooting more but to gauge what filp is capable of.

I agree with the Flip comment He's hanging around the boards this year and not busting to the net like last playoff year when he scored some "power goals" with big moves to the net

He just seems a bit timid so far this year

I don't know whether he benefits most by "playing with the big boys" on line one or two ,or whether he'd be better as part of a "kid line" with Kopecky and Hudler

Kopecky sure doesn't play the role of a power forward much either goodness knows he's got the size I wonder if he still contemplates his injury from last year a bit seems timid out there too this year my 25 cents worth

[thedatsyukian 7]

I agree with the Flip comment He's hanging around the boards this year and not busting to the net like last playoff year when he scored some "power goals" with big moves to the net

He just seems a bit timid so far this year

I don't know whether he benefits most by "playing with the big boys" on line one or two ,or whether he'd be better as part of a "kid line" with Kopecky and Hudler

Kopecky sure doesn't play the role of a power forward much either goodness knows he's got the size I wonder if he still contemplates his injury from last year a bit seems timid out there too this year my 25 cents worth

Right. Hopefully this will give us a little insight into whether he's a realistic top forward, or a defensive specialist who needs to play against the lower skilled players. I think kopecky's potential is still a little raw and somewhat unharnessed as he doesn't really use his size as an offensive force.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I like the looks of it. Giving Franzen his own line is very interesting.

[CanadaBoy 151]

I was thinking more along the lines of:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Hudler-Franzen-Hossa

Cleary-Filppula-Samuelsson

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

:siren:

And on defense for teh lulz:

Lidstrom-Chelios

Kronwall-Rafalski

Stuart-Lilja

Meech-Lebda

Edited December 9, 2008 by CanadaBoy

[eva unit zero 271]

There are two sets of combinations I want to see tried. With DZH, and without DZH.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Known quantity.

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Power forward capable of playing strong defense and taking faceoffs, excellent sniper/playmaker/decent defensive forward, elite all-around forward

Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson

Three solid defensive players capable of contributing offensively at even strength who have shown decent chemistry and the ability to perform as a checking line.

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky

Known quantity.

Lidstrom/Stuart

Put a physical, defensive defenseman with Lidstrom as Nick has been less than himself in that respect.

Kronwall/Rafalski

The top four should still be the top four; Rafalski and Kronwall is the next logical pairing.

Meech/Chelios

Lebda and Lilja looked like crap the last couple games, and Chelios is supposed to be back soon. Meech has been playing quite well. Lilja gets Chelios' spot until he comes back.

-----

Franzen/Zetterberg/Hossa

Like Franzen/Hudler/Hossa, but with an elite all-around center.

Hudler/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler's shot and skill fed by Datsyuk's vision and playmaking, with Homer wreaking havoc in front? 25+ teams would kill to get this on their first line and PP unit, let alone put it on the second line as a "maybe we can do this."

[ArcticWing 0]

I think this is done to force Pavel and Flip to take more shots, and the only reason Franzen is on third line is, Babcock not trusting Hudler centering a line. I'm glad Flip is getting a chance, maybe this will give him a lift. Even if there is no natural shooter on the first line, there still is Homer fine tuning the shots. We are going to see these lines for maximum of three games, before returning to normal (Franzen top-6 and Flip on third line). I like the new defensive pairings, those might even stick a bit longer.

Filppula...Datsuyk...Holmstrom

..........Lidstrom-Stuart............

The above line and d-pairing can be very frustrating to opposing teams top lines. It has four players, who all excel at defensive situations, have great passing and have good takeaway ability. This line is all about puck possession. Cindy and the Midgets would/will hate it.

At least this serves for a good wake up call. Despite the good track record, defending as a team hasn't been as dynamic as last spring.

Edited December 9, 2008 by ArcticWing

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Top line is brutal. Why not try Franzen with Datsyuk? Fil is far from a goal scorer and no one is going to shoot on that line! I figure he's doing that strictly to get Datsyuk to shoot (and in a perfect world score) more.

Hardly. We all saw what Flip can do with Datsyuk last season when he went on that hot streak. 6 games, 8 points (at least a point in every game) and 6 goals. I'm confident that line will work.

[Dabura 12,232]

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Known quantity.

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Power forward capable of playing strong defense and taking faceoffs, excellent sniper/playmaker/decent defensive forward, elite all-around forward

Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson

Three solid defensive players capable of contributing offensively at even strength who have shown decent chemistry and the ability to perform as a checking line.

Maltby/Draper/Kopecky

Known quantity.

Lidstrom/Stuart

Put a physical, defensive defenseman with Lidstrom as Nick has been less than himself in that respect.

Kronwall/Rafalski

The top four should still be the top four; Rafalski and Kronwall is the next logical pairing.

Meech/Chelios

Lebda and Lilja looked like crap the last couple games, and Chelios is supposed to be back soon. Meech has been playing quite well. Lilja gets Chelios' spot until he comes back.

Agreed.

One thing I don't understand is this idea that putting Z and D together is a copout, and that the forward attack is so much deeper and so much more dynamic when they're on separate lines. ZDH was the best line in hockey last season, and Franzen/Hudler/Hossa--Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson as 2 and 3, respectively, is nothing to sneeze at.

[96warrior 11]

Update from Tuesday's practice: The Wings skated with the same line combinations and defense pairings they used in Monday's practice. But coach Mike Babcock said he will revert back to his usual defense pairings for Wednesday's game against Calgary (Lidstrom-Rafalski, Kronwall-Stuart, Lebda-Lilja).

"I'm not going to play them like that tomorrow, I just wanted to freshen up for practice,'' Babcock said. "The big thing here is I haven't been displeased with my pairs at all. I just thought we needed to freshen up, needed to do something different for a few days.''

Up front, however, Babcock said he hadn't decided if he'll use the combinations from the last two days or go back to way it was before.

"I haven't decided on that part yet,'' he said.

This is how they have practiced:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Cleary-Zetterberg-Hossa

Hudler-Franzen-Samuelsson

Kopecky-Draper-Maltby

The power-play units remain the same:

Holmstrom-Datsyuk-Hossa

Lidstrom-Rafalski

and ...

Hudler-Zetterberg-Franzen

Kronwall-Samuelsson

Chances are, they'll start the game with the new combinations and then revert back if things aren't going smoothly.

Ty Conklin will start in net Wednesday. Chris Osgood said he doesn't know yet if he'll start Friday in Dallas. Babccok seems to take into account a goalie's history against a team when deciding who will start, so I would expect to see Osgood in net against the Stars, whom he is 35-14-3 against lifetime, including the playoffs. Then again, if Conklin is sharp against Calgary, he might opt to stick with the hot hand.

[Guest mindfly]

OMFG OMFG OMFG

Update from Tuesday’s practice: The Wings are going with the same changes as yesterday’s practice, but Mike Babcock said afterwards things will change for tomorrow’s game against Calgary - and that he's considered putting Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg back together.

[Casey 145]

OMFG OMFG OMFG

Update from Tuesday’s practice: The Wings are going with the same changes as yesterday’s practice, but Mike Babcock said afterwards things will change for tomorrow’s game against Calgary - and that he's considered putting Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg back together.

Please GOD let it be. Hossa's a good player, but what Pavel and Hank have can't be beaten.

[Cern 0]

I don't really get why everybody's frothing at the mouth for a return to the ZDH line. It's a great line but the offensive output this season would suggest that an offensive shakeup is NOT what the team desperately needs. The mixing up of defensive pairings would have been a better step in the right direction, which is why it seems odd Babcock is only doing it for practices.

[Casey 145]

I don't really get why everybody's frothing at the mouth for a return to the ZDH line. It's a great line but the offensive output this season would suggest that an offensive shakeup is NOT what the team desperately needs. The mixing up of defensive pairings would have been a better step in the right direction, which is why it seems odd Babcock is only doing it for practices.

Easy. Zata and Pavel are both superb as defensive forwards, and take care of the puck very well. While it may not solve the D problems, there will be 20 minutes or so a night where there is much less pressure on the D.

[Cern 0]

Easy. Zata and Pavel are both superb as defensive forwards, and take care of the puck very well. While it may not solve the D problems, there will be 20 minutes or so a night where there is much less pressure on the D.

Aren't you essentially putting all your eggs in one basket by putting them together for that reason, though? Besides, Hossa's no snub to defensive play either.

[Dabura 12,232]

Aren't you essentially putting all your eggs in one basket by putting them together for that reason, though?

We only have two eggs?

[MaynardJKeenan 1]

I can't believe people want to see Hudz back on one of the top two lines. He struggles with that many minutes. Like I said in another post, Hudler is like Larry Murphy, only good in small doses.

[Dabura 12,232]

I'm not all that fond of Hudler, but it's hard to argue with his numbers.

[Thomaslupojr 0]

I have to throw my name in the hat so here it goes

Zeta-dats-homer

cleary-franzen-hossa they all have pretty decent size, they might be tough to defend

Hudler-flip-sammy

maltby-drapes-kopecky

[Cern 0]

We only have two eggs?

If by 'eggs' you mean 'forwards with recent Selke-worthy performance', than yeah o_o

There's no offense-generating reason to urgently put them back together, the team's offensive output has been great so far. So if it's mainly being done as a defensive-play measure, sure, having them together on-ice for 20 minutes a night is great, but what about the other 40 minutes when neither of them are? Again, I think right now a shakeup of defensive pairings would be a lot more beneficial than a knee-jerk return to the ZDH line. Don't get me wrong, I know they work great together, I just don't see any real justification for going back to it given that Hossa has been playing like an absolute beast in his line so far and our trouble lies primarily on the back end.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Cern

[Dabura 12,232]

If by 'eggs' you mean 'forwards with recent Selke-worthy performance', than yeah o_o

We have other forwards who play solid defense. Not as good as Hank, no, but it's not like putting ZDH back together will considerably weaken the forward corps' D game. Not in my opinion, at least.

I hear you about there not being a need for any more offense right now. But I 1) would like to see ZDH together for the postseason and 2) am a big believer in the importance of chemistry and cohesion -- so if, say, Mule's going to play with Hossa and Hudler in the playoffs, I think that line should be put together ASAP so that (the hope is) those guys are really clicking come the first round.

And like I said, ZDH and something like Mule-Hudler-Hossa is a damn solid top-6. imo