trade hudler NOW

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

after reading this thread i'm still not understaning why the Wings would wanna trade away one of their hottest players. it just doesn't make sense.

[lets go pavel 2]

Especially not with that attitude... sheeze....

I covered your pont before you made it, when I said the guys I mentioned can steal a game and ours can't... watch the tape... Also, its common sense that a talented goalie on a poor team when given some support on a good team will be as good (minimum) or better (likely).

You saying "they can steal a game and ours can't" doesn't make it true. I readily concede that Ozzie and Conks have not been playing well and have not stolen a game yet this year, but both have proven more than capable of stealing games in the past.

As for your second point, no, that's not common sense because it's also not always true. Conklin is on a better team now than last year, why isn't he playing better? Moreover, part of the problem is that we haven't been supporting our goaltenders ... what makes you think we'll start once the new guy shows up?

[mackel 768]

You saying "they can steal a game and ours can't" doesn't make it true. I readily concede that Ozzie and Conks have not been playing well and have not stolen a game yet this year, but both have proven more than capable of stealing games in the past.

As for your second point, no, that's not common sense because it's also not always true. Conklin is on a better team now than last year, why isn't he playing better? Moreover, part of the problem is that we haven't been supporting our goaltenders ... what makes you think we'll start once the new guy shows up?

He's playing no worse... and you have to factor in a guy's career potential, Conks is a backup, stretch starter... all of the guys I have mentioned are starters.

[lets go pavel 2]

He's playing no worse... and you have to factor in a guy's career potential, Conks is a backup, stretch starter... all of the guys I have mentioned are starters.

Conklin's not playing anywhere near where he was last year ... last year he had a 2.51 GAA and a .923 Save % ... his year he's at 2.75 and .902. He carried the Pens for a stretch last year, he hasn't done a whole lot for us this year. All of the guys you mentioned are starters because they're on s***ty teams. Toskala and Bryz were backups for a long while, and while they've both shown flashes of being quality starters neither has really taken the job and run with it. Smith is young and does look good, but he has little experience.

[Bannedforlife 403]

LMAO!!!! You are exactly right. Although it was like 3am and a bit tipsy. Funny though...

Friends don't let friends post drunk.

[TheOwl 77]

Something tells me Stuart or Rafalski will be gone to make eventual cap room. 6 million is way too much, so is Stuarts 3.5 or whatever.

A lot of teams have 2 solid goalies that they rotate. Chicago has the biggest problem, but Huet and Bulin both make way too much money.

I was thinking something more like Stuart for Montreal's #2 Halak, or get one of the overachieving goalies from Florida or Nashville. Conklin is a #1 goalie, so is Osgood, but their both playing no where close to last year. Maybe adding some new faces would fit the bill. We should also get Kronwall's brother from Toronto, have a all Kronwall defensive pair.

Hudler is a RFA and will be a lot easier to sign for a lesser amount then trading Flippula, which may be a bad idea. Stuart is the most expendable person Detroit has, and possibly most attractive.

[miller76 463]

So this thread is just a spin off of a goalie thread. right?

I mean were talking about trying to get another goalie here, and the team is going to trade away some good young talent! This sounds like a Brian Burke type of logic.

I am sorry I totally disagree with the logic of trading away the likes of Hudler, Cleary, and Flip. So I am hearing the team needs to trade away the teams secondary scoring that has finally come around, after so much complaint of the first line carrying the load. This isn't and hasn't been a normal way of running this oraganization. I can't help but think Holland will try and keep every factor that contributes to this teams winning ways.

So because of the GAA, with Osgood and Conklin, there is reason to go look for a goalie? Vokoun are you kidding? Who else out there, that is available would you trust more than Ozzie at this point? There is no reason to hit the panic button here. Just because this team is not at the top of the heap, doesn't mean they are not capable of winning it all. The Presidents Cup does nothing but take up space. It's a useless piece of metal. It only proves you were better/luckier through the regular season. Its just one more piece of added pressure to win it all.

[eva unit zero 271]

This idea isnt as crazy as it seems... Let's remember we have a lot of forward strength on the griffins not to mention 1 or possibly 2 NHL ready defencemen.

I would try and keep Hudler but thats not to say a package of Flip, Kopecky, Lebda and Conklin/Howard wouldn't fetch a better option in goal than we have now. All of Flip, Kopecky and Lebda are easily replaced from the farn and could fetch a solid goalie from a struggling team looking to tank for the #1 overall draft pick.

Names that fit that bill:

Toskala (TOR)

Bryzgalov (PHO)

Mike Smith (TB)

Now some people will argue these guys have similar numbers to either Conklin or Osgood but lets keep in mind these goalies don't have the talent infront of them that Conks or Ozzie do and given that advantage they could only have better numbers given that each of the 3 I have mention can steal a game... something our guys clearly have not done.

Ok...let's take a look here...

Lebda is a healthy scratch on a full Wings roster. Kopecky is a fourth liner. Filppula is the third line center. As far as talent level, Lebda is a third pairing defenseman, Kopecky is a third line checking forward with decent two-way skill, and Filppula is a second line two-way forward who has good faceoff skills. All are in their mid-20s.

Assuming you meant trading all three of those players together, do you really think the Wings have a player in Grand Rapids right now capable of filling in for Filppula? I don't. Let's take a look at this trade. The Wings have 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies. They cut down to 11-7-2 giving up Filppula/Kopecky/Lebda, and would be getting a goalie back, pushing them to 11-7-3. Call up two forwards from Grand Rapids, we'll say Helm and Leino, and the Wings might look like this:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Leino/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Helm

McCarty

Lidstrom/Stuart

Kronwall/Rafalski

Lilja/Chelios

Meech

???

Osgood

Conklin

What goalie do you suggest we can get for Filppula, Kopecky, and Lebda that would be guaranteed to make such an amazing difference over the goaltending performance provided by Osgood or Conklin that they would be worth giving up two solid young all-around forwards who contribute well to our team.

I can't think of one goalie in the league worth trading Filppula alone for in the Wings' situation, let alone MORE than Filppula. Toskala, Bryzgalov, and Smith? None of those guys are any better than Osgood or Conklin. So why would we trade a good young center to get one of them? It would be like trading Datsyuk in the offseason so we could sign a couple #2-type defensemen for about $3m each.

The Wings trading for a goaltender, in general, simply doesn't make sense. It won't happen.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think this is the stupidest thread ever.

Are we forgetting that Hudler has looked like a top line forward for half this season and has been producing like a top-sixer? That he makes less than Mikael Samuelsson does? That hes an RFA after this season AND arbitration eligible? And we want to trade him for a GOALIE? This is such a stupid idea, I don't think theres really anything else to say.

[unkempt 0]

With our current cap room we cannot afford a proven top flight goalie anyway.

Unless we trade some of our current stars. Which is not going to happen.

Although if Holland could get a top 10 goalie for Rafalski, it would be a good deal. (I dont know if he has an NTC or not)

Edited December 15, 2008 by unkempt

[YoungGuns1340 1]

With our current cap room we cannot afford a proven top flight goalie anyway.

Unless we trade some of our current stars. Which is not going to happen.

Although if Holland could get a top 10 goalie for Rafalski, it would be a good deal. (I dont know if he has an NTC or not)

Unfortunately, Rafalski DOES have a NTC right now, because we really don't need a 4th forward making 6M on the ice when our problems are all defensive.

[Scotty 0]

Hell will freeze over before Holland trades Hudler. Our defense and goal tending is fine. Besides, Hudler has been WAY to good this year to just trade him away.

[gowings00 545]

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

Let's go Red Wings....Clap Clap.....Clap, Clap, Clap!!!

[HomeNugget 2]

Especially not with that attitude... sheeze....

I covered your pont before you made it, when I said the guys I mentioned can steal a game and ours can't... watch the tape... Also, its common sense that a talented goalie on a poor team when given some support on a good team will be as good (minimum) or better (likely).

This is not common sense. This is stupid. Any of the goalies you named, at their best, are not any better than Ozzie was last year. I'd rather hang on to Hudler and let Ozzie pull out his slump.

[IceMunkee 15]

This is not common sense. This is stupid. Any of the goalies you named, at their best, are not any better than Ozzie was last year. I'd rather hang on to Hudler and let Ozzie pull out his slump.

Ozzy was not great last night but he DID make some unbelievable "game-saving" saves.

[mackel 768]

Ozzy was not great last night but he DID make some unbelievable "game-saving" saves.

If the playoffs started now and this team was to run into a hot goalie in a series or a team with solid goaltending and a solid offence (San Jose comes to mind) we'd be toast... Ozzie was good enough last year, I am more than willing to agree with that. But right now he's a liability, he is playing terribly and his win/loss record is due mainly to winning games 5-4 or 6-5 or in the shootout.

Ozzie is in a slup yes, so far its called the 2008-09 season, he's not stolen a game yet... he has, so far, let in a few less goals (in most cases 1 less) goal/s than the offence can overcome. The guys timing, positiong and puck handeling have been terrible all season... Last year was great, but what has he done lately? Not too much!

Also, for those of you who think people who have this opinion are way off in left field... have you been watching the games on FSN Detroit?? The boys in the booth have been saying similar things lately... but you likely think they are retarded too.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Are you out of your mind? Seriously.

[VM1138 1,921]

Ok...let's take a look here...

Lebda is a healthy scratch on a full Wings roster. Kopecky is a fourth liner. Filppula is the third line center. As far as talent level, Lebda is a third pairing defenseman, Kopecky is a third line checking forward with decent two-way skill, and Filppula is a second line two-way forward who has good faceoff skills. All are in their mid-20s.

Assuming you meant trading all three of those players together, do you really think the Wings have a player in Grand Rapids right now capable of filling in for Filppula? I don't. Let's take a look at this trade. The Wings have 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 2 goalies. They cut down to 11-7-2 giving up Filppula/Kopecky/Lebda, and would be getting a goalie back, pushing them to 11-7-3. Call up two forwards from Grand Rapids, we'll say Helm and Leino, and the Wings might look like this:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

Cleary/Leino/Samuelsson

Maltby/Draper/Helm

McCarty

Lidstrom/Stuart

Kronwall/Rafalski

Lilja/Chelios

Meech

???

Osgood

Conklin

What goalie do you suggest we can get for Filppula, Kopecky, and Lebda that would be guaranteed to make such an amazing difference over the goaltending performance provided by Osgood or Conklin that they would be worth giving up two solid young all-around forwards who contribute well to our team.

I can't think of one goalie in the league worth trading Filppula alone for in the Wings' situation, let alone MORE than Filppula. Toskala, Bryzgalov, and Smith? None of those guys are any better than Osgood or Conklin. So why would we trade a good young center to get one of them? It would be like trading Datsyuk in the offseason so we could sign a couple #2-type defensemen for about $3m each.

The Wings trading for a goaltender, in general, simply doesn't make sense. It won't happen.

This whole post makes a lot of sense. I think people are living in this fantasy world where they think there are fool-proof goalies. We have no choice but to ride Ozzie and Conklin, they'll come around and perform well. The key is motivating our defense and getting our forwards to remember how to play defensively.

If anyone gets moved, it's defense-for-defense or defense & forward-for-defenseman.

[VM1138 1,921]

I am marking your words and would be willing to bet almost anything on this...

I'll put my entire stockholdings in GM on the line.

I know it's ridiculous, but I have this feeling that someday Luongo will be a Wing ala a blockbuster trade like we acquired Hasek. But that'll be long from now. I don't see us (or want to see) getting rid of Osgood. He's proven his worth and he'll recover.

Also, someone criticised Conks for having a 2.75 GAA this year vs. a 2.50 last year.

Seriously? That's like bashing a foward for scoring 65 points one season and 59 the next and saying he's done for. The numbers just aren't that far apart.

[soultrain 43]

trade hossa and lidstrom.

Edited December 15, 2008 by soultrain

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

I think this is the stupidest thread ever.

Are we forgetting that Hudler has looked like a top line forward for half this season and has been producing like a top-sixer? That he makes less than Mikael Samuelsson does? That hes an RFA after this season AND arbitration eligible? And we want to trade him for a GOALIE? This is such a stupid idea, I don't think theres really anything else to say.

Seconded. Absolute ridiculous idea of trading Hudler, for a goalie much less.

[Grim 5]

Is Hasek still skating?? I'd consider him if Ozzie or Conklin get hurt Long Term (heaven forbid).

[Aussie_Wing 354]

The ONLY reason that even makes me think a Hudler trade is possible is that Babcock doesn't seem to like him.

Other than that, who are you going to get in his place that is going to be any more reliable? Hudler is showing he's coming into his own and is putting up ridiculous stats for himself. He's finally developed and is showing what he's worth, and we need to keep him.

The only players we should even think about letting go at the end of this season or deadline are:

Kopecky

Lebda

Sammy (but only for a good defensive forward, because he's had a much better season than usual and I don't dislike him so much)

Filpulla

And none of those, except for maybe Filpulla, would get us anything of value, unfortunately.

Believe it or not, Sammy is actually a good defensive forward...

[eva unit zero 271]

Here's a list of players who "can't" be traded this season because of organization loyalty, the "sign & trade" issue about trading a player in the first year of a UFA contract, or a no-trade clause

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Hossa, Cleary, Maltby, Draper, McCarty, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, Lilja, Chelios, Osgood, Conklin

This leaves, among roster players, the following "tradeables" as well as picks and anyone else in the organization.

Hudler, Filppula, Franzen, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lebda, Meech

Lebda is completely expendable and will probably be gone before his contract is up.

Meech is an upgrade over Lebda, but figure after 09-10 Lebda and Chelios are gone, they will be replaced by Ericsson and Kindl, who will compete with Meech for the 5th and 6th spots on the blueline. Meech's ability to play forward well allows him to keep that 7th spot. As a forward, if Meech replaced Maltby, and it were Meech/Draper/Kopecky, the Wings could still argue for the best fourth line in the NHL.

The Wings currently are close to the cap for this season, and the cap is rumored to be lowering to about $55m.

This is with Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Chelios, and Conklin all without contracts for next season. Taking the $6m from Hossa's current figure that remains after the cap is lowered to the rumored amount, that leaves enough to raise Zetterberg by $4m, Hudler by $1m, Franzen by $1m. If Conklin is replaced by Larsson, Chelios either retires or signs for the league minimum 500k, and Kopecky signs a two year deal for $550, this leaves about $300k for Samuelsson's raise, or $1.5m for Sammy's replacement, if the Wings are to have as much or more cap space next year as they do this year.

If Chelios retires, the Wings will try to get Sammy to take less than 1.1, as this would clear enough cap space for Ericsson to be the replacement with no other moves.

Regardless... Lebda is the most expendable player on the 'tradeable' list and he won't be bringing back much but cap space. Samuelsson is a top six forward who doesn't ask for nearly that kind of salary and will do whatever the coach asks. One of the best bargains in the league. If Chelios, plus Malts and/or retire and Lebda is traded for picks in the offseason, that would improve the Wings going forward.

[lets go pavel 2]

Also, someone criticised Conks for having a 2.75 GAA this year vs. a 2.50 last year.

Seriously? That's like bashing a foward for scoring 65 points one season and 59 the next and saying he's done for. The numbers just aren't that far apart.

That was me, but I wasn't criticizing Conklin, only pointing out that he has not improved, at least statistically, over last year, despite playing for a better team. Someone else had made the comment that if a goalie is playing so-so on an average team their play will have to improve playing for a better team, and I was disputing this claim. Not bashing Conks ...