12/15 GDT: Avalanche 3, Red Wings 2

[YoungGuns1340 1]

You know I don't think he had a terribly bad game. He made a couple good moves position wise and could have saved a goal had Osgood stopped the penalty shot.

Edit: see you meant Lebda.

If we move Lebda, we should have room to bring up Ericsson or room to make yet another trade that has positive cap differential. For example, if you were to trade Lebda for a pick. Then turn around and trade Kronwall for Volchenkov and Neil, Lebdas cap space makes that possible.

Edited December 16, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Horray, Keith Jones says the Wings still have the best D

They do. On paper, theres no other team that can compare. Even San Jose. But the difference is performance.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Someone here wrote after the Avs' second goal that Lebda is the worst player in the league. I don't think he was on the ice during either of the goals.

Lebda wasn't on the ice for the goals, but he is still awful. Lilja and Lebda spend every shift chasing the puck in their own zone. Lebda isn't remotely good defensively, can't win battles for the puck, and is usually out of position. The one thing Lebda is known for (speed) hardly is enough to overlook his major defensive flaws. Chelios should be playing over Lebda from here on out.

[Yak19 303]

Well i've seen nothing over the past 3 games to get me confident going into thursdays game against SJ, i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

This team is very arrogant at the moment, maybe they are just bored. Maybe the only way they will play hard is if it is playoffs. Its like a heroin addict switching to marijuana, they just come off that high of winning the cup, new season back to regular season games that do not spark much in the boys in wanting to play. The regular season is just not amusing to them right now.

For those who want to praise Raycroft tonight don't, we lost to ourselves even with the half-hearted effort. The missed chances with a wide open net would have given us an easy 5-2, 5-3 win. Raycroft made some ok saves but we ultimately made him look good. He will play Edmonton, Dallas, St. Louis or some other basement dwelling team and get lit up.

If we put together 60 minutes against SJ we WILL win. If we play like we have all season, with the exception of maybe 3 games, its going to be a somber thursday.

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Lebda wasn't on the ice for the goals, but he is still awful. Lilja and Lebda spend every shift chasing the puck in their own zone. Lebda isn't remotely good defensively, can't win battles for the puck, and is usually out of position. The one thing Lebda is known for (speed) hardly is enough to overlook his major defensive flaws. Chelios should be playing over Lebda from here on out.

I wouldn't say Lilja chases the puck around. Hes usual the one making the simple plays. If you ask me, Lilja has actually been our best defenseman in terms of defense overall. And why? Because he makes the simple play.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Well i've seen nothing over the past 3 games to get me confident going into thursdays game against SJ, i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

This team is very arrogant at the moment, maybe they are just bored. Maybe the only way they will play hard is if it is playoffs. Its like a heroin addict switching to marijuana, they just come off that high of winning the cup, new season back to regular season games that do not spark much in the boys in wanting to play. The regular season is just not amusing to them right now.

For those who want to praise Raycroft tonight don't, we lost to ourselves even with the half-hearted effort. The missed chances with a wide open net would have given us an easy 5-2, 5-3 win. Raycroft made some ok saves but we ultimately made him look good. He will play Edmonton, Dallas, St. Louis or some other basement dwelling team and get lit up.

If we put together 60 minutes against SJ we WILL win. If we play like we have all season, with the exception of maybe 3 games, its going to be a somber thursday.

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!

If we put together 60 minutes against any team, its a guaranteed W by more than a goal.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I've thought Lilja has looked particularly solid all year. A couple of defensive gaffes here or there, but every defenseman on the team has been guilty of those.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

I wouldn't say Lilja chases the puck around. Hes usual the one making the simple plays. If you ask me, Lilja has actually been our best defenseman in terms of defense overall. And why? Because he makes the simple play.

I probably lumped Lilja in unfairly with Lebda just because they play as a defense pair. I agree with you - Lilja has been very good overall this season. It just seems that when Lilja and Lebda are on the ice together at even strength, they spend most of the shift chasing the puck in their own zone. It usually leads to a goal, quality scoring chance, or penalty more often than not. I notice it the most when Lilja and Lebda are stuck on the ice with our God-awful fourth line. It still can't hurt to play Chelios over Lebda, or like you suggested move Lebda and give Ericsson a chance. Lebda is easily the worst player on a team right now that has plenty of guys underachieving.

EDIT: Forgot about Kopecky. Lebda is at least better than one player.

Edited December 16, 2008 by GoWings1905

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

i can't wait for the wings to play like this against the sharks. it's gonna get ugly.

[Wingsallwin 0]

When I was watching with the Wings having troubles on a defensive zone, Wings couldnt steal the puck for 2 or 3 minutes. I hope we can fix something..

[Matt 1,049]

You know, I don't mind the Red Wings losing as long as I can comfortably say that they gave a 100% effort out there.

But losses like tonight infuriate me.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

i can't wait for the wings to play like this against the sharks. it's gonna get ugly.

In a way, they really need it to get ugly to learn a lesson.

I have a feeling it won't though. I am guessing the Red Wings beat the Sharks on Thursday.

[AtomicPunk 296]

i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

Seriously?

Another case of the best players not being the ones on the roster. I agree, Kopecky has shown me nothing special to keep him around, but bringing up the farm team ain't the answer either. Try again.

How about at practice, you smack a guy in the shin or call him out when he makes a lazy pass. How about we break it down and practice safe ways to get the puck out of our own end? Breakout passes that hit the player they are intended for? Laying down to block a shot or a pass instead of waving at it? How about if the forwards stop backchecking, you bench them and make them miss a shift? They have to be responsible for themselves. These are 10-15 year veterans, mostly. Hold them accountable. To each other.

Edited December 16, 2008 by AtomicPunk

[Nev 1,085]

they just come off that high of winning the cup, new season back to regular season games that do not spark much in the boys in wanting to play. The regular season is just not amusing to them right now.

If you've read The Game, Dryden talks about the same thing with the 70s Canadiens. They had to set themselves targets like breaking the record for points, then breaking their own record for points to motivate themselves during the regular season.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I've thought Lilja has looked particularly solid all year. A couple of defensive gaffes here or there, but every defenseman on the team has been guilty of those.

i agree. lilja's been our most reliable defender this season. he's simplified his play and limited his mistakes. every defender we have, including lidstrom, needs to simlify. get the ******* pucks out of the zone. i wish there was a stat for giveaways in the neutral and defensive zones because we'd most certainly be near the top of the league in that category. i believe kronwall is the worst. when he touches the puck he just assumes he has as much time with it as he wants.

this team needs to simplify.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

what a craptacular game.

Usually the goalie bashing here is out of hand, but Ozzy really did have a bad game tonight. Even on the saves he made, he looked lost. Plus turning the puck over behind the net.

The Wings were equally lost. Pucks in skates, cutesy passes, horrible turnovers, not fighting for the puck in the corner.

Once again their potent offense kept it close. The Wings were outworked by the Avs, who deserved this win. The Colorado players were getting bodies in front of shots, sticks in passing lanes, and winning the battles in the corner. And they got great goaltending from Raycroft. The Wings had none of that.

[edicius 3,269]

I wouldn't say Lilja chases the puck around. Hes usual the one making the simple plays. If you ask me, Lilja has actually been our best defenseman in terms of defense overall. And why? Because he makes the simple play.

See, I haven't been crazy this season. Lilja's for real. I'd really like to see him get more minutes, honestly. But as long as Babcock keeps him out there on the PK blocking shots, I'm happy.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I probably lumped Lilja in unfairly with Lebda just because they play as a defense pair. I agree with you - Lilja has been very good overall this season. It just seems that when Lilja and Lebda are on the ice together at even strength, they spend most of the shift chasing the puck in their own zone. It usually leads to a goal, quality scoring chance, or penalty more often than not. I notice it the most when Lilja and Lebda are stuck on the ice with our God-awful fourth line. It still can't hurt to play Chelios over Lebda, or like you suggested move Lebda and give Ericsson a chance. Lebda is easily the worst player on a team right now that has plenty of guys underachieving.

EDIT: Forgot about Kopecky. Lebda is at least better than one player.

I wouldn't mind seeing Lilja get bumped up to play with Lidstrom. Not in minutes of course, but with the way Lilja is playing this year, he might be a better suited pair for Lidstrom, which would be a great line to put out against the other teams top unit. Am I the only one who remembers that the two used to play together? It might be a decent option to shake things up.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

here's a question: how many games this year have the wings deserved to win? i know we have loads of wins, but how many of those did we really outwork the other team and earn the win? very few by my count. we are winning on talent alone, everything else has gone out the window, and all of our players are guilty.

i'm tired of it.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

i agree. lilja's been our most reliable defender this season. he's simplified his play and limited his mistakes. every defender we have, including lidstrom, needs to simlify. get the ******* pucks out of the zone. i wish there was a stat for giveaways in the neutral and defensive zones because we'd most certainly be near the top of the league in that category. i believe kronwall is the worst. when he touches the puck he just assumes he has as much time with it as he wants.

this team needs to simplify.

Jesus I am glad I'm not the only one who notices this. The Wings take FOREVER to clear the puck. They'll make 3 or 4 cross-ice passes or hold onto the puck looking for the perfect play until the oppositions forechecker is all over them. Fixing that alone would probably cut our defensive mistakes in half.

[Yak19 303]

i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

Seriously?

Another case of the best players not being the ones on the roster. I agree, Kopecky has shown me nothing special to keep him around, but bringing up the farm team ain't the answer either. Try again.

How about at practice, you smack a guy in the shin or call him out when he makes a lazy pass. How about we break it down and practice safe ways to get the puck out of our own end? Breakout passes that hit the player they are intended for? Laying down to block a shot or a pass instead of waving at it? How about if the forwards stop backchecking, you bench them and make them miss a shift? They have to be responsible for themselves. These are 10-15 year veterans, mostly. Hold them accountable. To each other.

Yes seriously, i've stood up for Osgood for most of the season because of the horrible defence but tonight he could have stopped at least 1 of the 3 goals. Even when he had a routine save he would juggle it.

Yes seriously, bring up farm players that are chomping at the bit to make the roster.

As for the top players not being the top players, right now its a lack of motivation, i do agree with you there, the leaders on the team need to call one another out. Whether its Babcock or the veteran players they need to be vocal in that locker room and address this faggotry.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Jesus I am glad I'm not the only one who notices this. The Wings take FOREVER to clear the puck. They'll make 3 or 4 cross-ice passes or hold onto the puck looking for the perfect play until the oppositions forechecker is all over them. Fixing that alone would probably cut our defensive mistakes in half.

the other infuriating thing they do on defense is let opposing players stand alone, uncontested in the slot. anybody in the slot should be getting their asses kicked but the wings just let them skate in unfettered. it's so annoying. we have one of the easiest defensive zones to play in out of any team in the league that i've seen this year.

wings are also terribly slow to pucks in their zone, and rarely win the physical battles along the boards. the list goes on. it all amounts to lazy, uninspired play.

[Red Crazy 201]

i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

Seriously?

Another case of the best players not being the ones on the roster. I agree, Kopecky has shown me nothing special to keep him around, but bringing up the farm team ain't the answer either. Try again.

How about at practice, you smack a guy in the shin or call him out when he makes a lazy pass. How about we break it down and practice safe ways to get the puck out of our own end? Breakout passes that hit the player they are intended for? Laying down to block a shot or a pass instead of waving at it? How about if the forwards stop backchecking, you bench them and make them miss a shift? They have to be responsible for themselves. These are 10-15 year veterans, mostly. Hold them accountable. To each other.

This is by far the best comment on here.

The key is making this happen!

I do however think that Ozzie needs some time off to get his head straight. He looked rattled on every shot and I think that the whole team feels it.

[j.hoop 64]

Well i've seen nothing over the past 3 games to get me confident going into thursdays game against SJ, i love Osgood but he needs some time in the minors bring up Howard or Larsson. Helm, Downey, Abdelkader in on thursday, one of those 3 anyway for Kopecky.

This team is very arrogant at the moment, maybe they are just bored. Maybe the only way they will play hard is if it is playoffs. Its like a heroin addict switching to marijuana, they just come off that high of winning the cup, new season back to regular season games that do not spark much in the boys in wanting to play. The regular season is just not amusing to them right now.

For those who want to praise Raycroft tonight don't, we lost to ourselves even with the half-hearted effort. The missed chances with a wide open net would have given us an easy 5-2, 5-3 win. Raycroft made some ok saves but we ultimately made him look good. He will play Edmonton, Dallas, St. Louis or some other basement dwelling team and get lit up.

If we put together 60 minutes against SJ we WILL win. If we play like we have all season, with the exception of maybe 3 games, its going to be a somber thursday.

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!

lololololol

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I do however think that Ozzie needs some time off to get his head straight. He looked rattled on every shot and I think that the whole team feels it.

i agree. i've been a little hesitant to be too critical of oz this year. but he needs to sit. he's playing terrified and unsettled. he has no confidence in himself or the d. he needs to sit. conklin has only been marginally better, but he has been better.

my goal this season was to remain optimistic, especially in my posts, but i've since opened pandora's box and i can't temper the pessimism gushing from my fingertips! i guess it's just not in my nature.