Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 This isn't meant to be anything TOO serious. I'm just wondering what the Wings could look like in a handful of years, when Lidstrom, Draper, Cheli, Maltby, and possibly Homer have all retired. This contains optimism and a lot of speculation. Just interested to see where others think we could end up. Dats - Z- Franzen Cleary - Hudler - Leino Kopecky - Helm - Current Prospect? -- I'm being very nice to Kopecky and assuming he improves a little. Prospect? - Prospect? - Meech -- Obviously, Meech rotates D & forward depending on need Prospect OR Downey -- Being hopeful for Downey Raffi - Kronner Stuart - Big Rig Lilja - Kindl Lebda -- Being nice to Lebda. I'm pretending he does something to make him worth keeping around as a 7th D-man. Or just put a prospect in this spot. 8th D: Another prospect Howard/Larsson as 1A and 1B until one clear #1 is obvious, McCollum getting plenty of development time. Free agent signings: I'm not even going to try to take any guesses here. That's far too unpredictable. Here's some realistic speculation, though: A 2nd line scorer if the 2nd line isn't strong enough? A skilled 3rd or 4th line vet? A capable goaltender, backup or starting, if one or both of Larsson and Howard don't pan out? Assuming everyone on the roster develops into their currently estimated potential (Hudler, Franzen, Kronwall, Big Rig, Kindl, Leino, Kopecky, Helm, and both goaltenders), that still looks quite playoff-worthy. Even though there are some big question marks, I think we still have a solid core even after Homer, Ozzie, Lidstrom, Draper, and Maltby are gone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casey 145 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'd quibble a bit on Howard getting anything more than a backup. He's had his chances, and has never really distinguished himself. He's a career backup in my mind, and Larsson/McCollum are both impressing me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'd quibble a bit on Howard getting anything more than a backup. He's had his chances, and has never really distinguished himself. He's a career backup in my mind, and Larsson/McCollum are both impressing me. Realistically, I would too. But I'm being moderately generous to everyone on the list, and assuming he gets a chance and does something decent with it (Atleast makes himself 1B worthy). I'm also assuming that McCollum does well enough to get into GR and develop, but not so well that he makes the Wings roster at 21/22. Not like I'd complain if he did.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 You missed Flip! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zune 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Holmstrom isn't going anywhere, playing on a line with Datsyuk and on the PP, he could play for five or ten more years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'm pretty excited for the future Grind Line that's developing in Grand Rapids (Helm-Abdelkader). They just need a third and maybe they can pick up someone cheap. Kopy? Meh, if he's skating well, he could be like Tomas Holmstrom with more of an offensive upside, but he's not physical enough to play the grinder mold the way Helm and Abs do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Holmstrom isn't going anywhere, playing on a line with Datsyuk and on the PP, he could play for five or ten more years. Hope not. They'll have a hard time finding someone who battles for the puck the way he does. They say that once Lidstrom leaves there will be a huge hole. Same goes for Homer. He's the best in the league at what he does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 You missed Flip! Sadly, I'm assuming Flip gets traded at the end of this season. Even losing Sammy, keeping Flip doesn't seem realistic if you want to sign Z, Franzen, and Hudler, and that's assuming Z only gets 7 and Franzen and Hudler only get 3 each (check the Franzen vs Hossa thread for some numbers). Flip is basically only a glorified PK specialist right now -- of which we have a plethora. Franzen and Hudler are seriously outproducing him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Holmstrom isn't going anywhere, playing on a line with Datsyuk and on the PP, he could play for five or ten more years. I'd love to think that. Realistically, though, with the amount of abuse that guy takes and some of the injuries that are starting to pop up more (like groin and back), you've gotta think he might be ready to retire or go low minutes by the end of his contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Hopefully the Wings can land either a high-end prospect or a top 20-ish 1st round pick if they choose to trade Filppula, so there might be that to look forward to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'd love to think that. Realistically, though, with the amount of abuse that guy takes and some of the injuries that are starting to pop up more (like groin and back), you've gotta think he might be ready to retire or go low minutes by the end of his contract. Injuries are a threat, of course, but Homer is exactly the type of guy that would come back to play for the Wings at 1.5M per season. He knows very well that hes in this league because guys like Datsyuk and Hank have kept him afloat while being not much more than a PP specialist. I think eventually we can count on Homer going back to his roots - 6-8 minutes per game at even strength on the 3rd/4th line, and everything else on the PP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Injuries are a threat, of course, but Homer is exactly the type of guy that would come back to play for the Wings at 1.5M per season. He knows very well that hes in this league because guys like Datsyuk and Hank have kept him afloat while being not much more than a PP specialist. I think eventually we can count on Homer going back to his roots - 6-8 minutes per game at even strength on the 3rd/4th line, and everything else on the PP. I'm hopeful. Homer is one of my favorites. But, I don't want to see him sacrifice his well-being into his 40s and beyond.. well, because he's one of my favorites. Just like I wouldn't want to see Yzerman play anymore on his knee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary Hudler-Filppula-Leino Kopecky-Helm-Abdelkader I'd say Sammy will be kept around somewhere, but not sure where he'd go. I'd say Holland would probably get a grinder via free agency, and have someone else in our system round out the fourth line. Kronwall-Rafalski Ericsson-Stuart kindl-Lilja As for goaltending, I'd say Larsson has a better shot at making it as our #1 before Howard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary Hudler-Filppula-Leino Kopecky-Helm-Abdelkader I'd say Sammy will be kept around somewhere, but not sure where he'd go. I'd say Holland would probably get a grinder via free agency, and have someone else in our system round out the fourth line. Kronwall-Rafalski Ericsson-Stuart kindl-Lilja As for goaltending, I'd say Larsson has a better shot at making it as our #1 before Howard. Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary is a line I can live with as well -- if Cleary's offense picks up again. That's a quite skilled 2nd line, but possibly too lacking in size and grit. That's not a 3rd line I'd be opposed to, if Abdelkader proves his worth in the NHL, and Kopecky improves. Filppula over Franzen? I'm curious in your argument for that. They're both defensively responsible, but Franzen is larger and puts up more points thus far. Are you possibly just making a case for Flip + Leino? I think that'd be cool to see, if we could somehow pull it off--but not at the expense of a superior player. Or are you estimating that Franzen will get a 4+/yr contract this offseason? In that case, we would have a hard time fitting him (but not Flip), and it's an argument that's certainly plausible. As for Sammy, we just don't have room for him this upcoming offseason, unless he signs for the same money (which I doubt, given his numbers) and we trade Lilja to replace with a .5/yr d-man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'm hopeful. Homer is one of my favorites. But, I don't want to see him sacrifice his well-being into his 40s and beyond.. well, because he's one of my favorites. Just like I wouldn't want to see Yzerman play anymore on his knee. For a guy that takes a lot of abuse, homer has held up really well. Until he develops some sort of chronic injury, I would bank on him to keep lacing them up. Do I expect him to play into his 40s? No. But I expect 3 or 4 more years out of the guy. But man is he going to have the sickest arthritis when hes older. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blueliner 69 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Sadly, I'm assuming Flip gets traded at the end of this season. Even losing Sammy, keeping Flip doesn't seem realistic if you want to sign Z, Franzen, and Hudler, and that's assuming Z only gets 7 and Franzen and Hudler only get 3 each (check the Franzen vs Hossa thread for some numbers). Flip is basically only a glorified PK specialist right now -- of which we have a plethora. Franzen and Hudler are seriously outproducing him. Filppula isn't going. You guys have to realize that not everyone on the team can put up 90 points a season. Here's what will happen if he were to be traded. He goes to some bad team and plays on the first or second line along with powerplay time. He'll then begin putting up big numbers and everyone on here will complain about why we traded him and didn't give him more time. The same thing happened with Kyle Quincey and that Mattias guy that went to Flordia. Someone said something about trading him to get a first round pick? Good Luck finding someone to give up a first round pick for him. Filppula is a good player. He would be at least a second line player, if not first on any other team in the league. If anyone here can give me a name of a player that plays on the third line, has no powerplay time and has put up big numbers for more than one year, i'll retract this statement. But good luck doing so. Everyone here needs to chill out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Filppula isn't going. (Etc) Okay, I'm fine with that. But why not? Who are we losing instead of Flip? We do have a cap to fit in. Here are a few decisions you have to make: (Only applies if Sammy will take the same money he makes now) Lilja vs Sammy Zetterberg vs Hossa If above: Franzen, Hudler, Filppula -- Choose any 2 Zetterberg AND Hossa vs Franzen, Hudler, Filppula (plus potentially another player) Alternates to keeping Flip while keeping Franzen and Hudler (Warning: May contain material disturbing to some viewers): Trade Datsyuk (lololololol) Trade Rafalski Trade Kronwall (more realistic, but Kronwall @ 3m > Flip @ 3m) Trade Stuart (NTC/NMC, yes?) (3.75m) Trade Cleary (NTC/NMC again) (2.85m) Trade Holmstrom and any .5-.8 player (ex. Holmstrom + Maltby). And then you have an extra roster spot to fill with less cap Make Flip work in such a way that doesn't result in the Wings getting screwed. Franzen and Flip = Hudler gone and Hudler and Flip = Franzen gone. Is Flip worth the loss of either of those players? Over half a season and likely the playoffs to find out, but AS OF RIGHT NOW: I say no. Edited December 31, 2008 by The Wheeled Winger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjgj13 30 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Holmstrom isn't going anywhere, playing on a line with Datsyuk and on the PP, he could play for five or ten more years. If he makes 5 more years after this year I will be VERY surprised. He is 35 or 36 already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zune 0 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 If he makes 5 more years after this year I will be VERY surprised. He is 35 or 36 already. Whats your point? His game isn't about world class skating. Hes a fourth liner, who excels playing with Datsyuk and on the PP. Hes a specialist of sorts and with the new rules he doesn't take as much "Abuse" as before. The only thing going against him is the fact that he stands in front of 90+ mph slapshots on game by game basis. If he can avoid getting hit in the face, theres no limit to his playing career. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary is a line I can live with as well -- if Cleary's offense picks up again. That's a quite skilled 2nd line, but possibly too lacking in size and grit. That's not a 3rd line I'd be opposed to, if Abdelkader proves his worth in the NHL, and Kopecky improves. Filppula over Franzen? I'm curious in your argument for that. They're both defensively responsible, but Franzen is larger and puts up more points thus far. Are you possibly just making a case for Flip + Leino? I think that'd be cool to see, if we could somehow pull it off--but not at the expense of a superior player. Or are you estimating that Franzen will get a 4+/yr contract this offseason? In that case, we would have a hard time fitting him (but not Flip), and it's an argument that's certainly plausible. As for Sammy, we just don't have room for him this upcoming offseason, unless he signs for the same money (which I doubt, given his numbers) and we trade Lilja to replace with a .5/yr d-man. Holy friggin crap how did I forget the Mule?!?! Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary Hudler-MULE-Leino Kopecky-Flip-Sammy ???-Helm-Abdelkader Fixed!! lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Holy friggin crap how did I forget the Mule?!?! Datsyuk-Hank-Cleary Hudler-MULE-Leino Kopecky-Flip-Sammy ???-Helm-Abdelkader Fixed!! lol Well, sorta, now you have to explain how you're gonna fit All 5 of Hank, Hudler, Franzen, Flip, and Sammy this offseason . With the same roster we have right now, with no chelios or hossa (and howard or larsson instead of conklin), and assuming Hank only gets 7, and Hudler and Franzen only get 3, and Sammy only gets what he's earning now, that comes out to around 58-58.5 mil, which is 2-2.5 mil above the current cap, which is likely to decrease. Edit: That's a 22 man roster, too. Edited December 31, 2008 by The Wheeled Winger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Well, sorta, now you have to explain how you're gonna fit All 5 of Hank, Hudler, Franzen, Flip, and Sammy this offseason . With the same roster we have right now, with no chelios or hossa (and howard or larsson instead of conklin), and assuming Hank only gets 7, and Hudler and Franzen only get 3, and Sammy only gets what he's earning now, that comes out to around 58-58.5 mil, which is 2-2.5 mil above the current cap, which is likely to decrease. Edit: That's a 22 man roster, too. Lol. That's why we have Holland!!! PS. I'm way too buzzed to be thinking about this stuff right now. New Years FTW!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 PS. I'm way too buzzed to be thinking about this stuff right now. New Years FTW!! Fair enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
