swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) My message will be build in 2 parts First, I have to say I'm really disappointed this season thus far by the play of Kronwall (which had one again terrific night yesterday) and Stuart. I'm beginnng to be worried that Kronwall will never turn as a top 2 D, as everyone of us expect it when Lids will retire. In my opinion he definitively had more night "out" yet ,than nights when he was really good. I' ve seen in many topics that some guys here pointed out the play of rafalski, or even at the beginning of the season, Lidstrom's play. Sorry but Kronwall's and Stuart's play have been much worst! Particulary I think they haven t played up to ther salaries. Do you agree with me? opinions? Second I' ve seen previously a lot of threads suggesting a rafalski trade, which obviously won't happen. I do think that the guy which is the more likely to go is Stuart if he goes on to play like that. His play isn't worth his salary and i think he ll be redundant at the end of the year with the big Ericsson waiting in the system, and Lilja which is now a bargain with his level of play. Furthermore I've read that Stuart will have a NTC for the last 2 years of his contract. I think Holland, when he gave Stuart's contract (even Hossa hadn't signed yet), figured it out that it will be a difficult year to sign them all and could possibly trade Stuart after the year if he's not living up to the expectations. Detroit has very few trade material and I think Holland would be wise to trade him before his NTC occur. I would prefer to give the 2 millions difference between the salary of Stuart and Ericcson to keep Jiri Hudler in the system. Any thoughts? Sorry for the mistakes, english is not my mothertongue.. Edited January 4, 2009 by swiss_fan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 c'mon! no one has an opinion about Kronwall's or Stuart's level of play? Don't you think like me that Stuart could be gone after the playoff? (something that haven t been discussed a lot here) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest dekeyuk Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Okay, I'll just say that I agree about Kronner. He needs to step up in a big way. If only Babs could limit his ice time like he did to Hudler, then we might see some hunger there. Funny how poor Huds had such a tough ride while others seem to get away with slacking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Kronwell and Stuart haven't been playing well defensively tough they are starting to come around. That said, neither are going anywhere. You saw them last year in the playoffs, they are more than capable. They just need to pick it up. We know that they can play great so why would we get rid of either to put in a guy like Ericsson who has almost no NHL experience? Patience. Ericsson's time will come but only when it makes sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueMonk 102 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Both players bring a physical element the Wings need, and Kronwall is a good offensive defenseman who can be dangerous on the PP. But defensively, especially as a pairing, they've consistently underperformed. Hopefully, they can turn it around. Look at how Lebda has improved his game. He was a -9 and now he's a +2 and rarely committing the kind of idiot turnovers he was guilty of almost nightly the first few weeks of the season. I think Kronwall is the real problem, Stuart's just being dragged down with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nutz2u Report post Posted January 4, 2009 (edited) Now that Chelly is healthy they have an extra defenceman so Kronner and Stuart should be healthy scratches for a few games to light a fire under their asses!!!!!!!!!! I also want to say that scratching Kopecky to give Chelly a cameo was pure BULLs***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited January 4, 2009 by nutz2u Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 You saw them last year in the playoffs, they are more than capable. They just need to pick it up. We know that they can play great so why would we get rid of either to put in a guy like Ericsson who has almost no NHL experience? Well that's true that during playoff they have performed very well, BUT not really against the nashville serie, and for Stuart, not really before playoff time. We could all be biaised because we keep in mind this image of Stuart and Kronner performing during the playoff while all the team was clicking and there was a great dynamic around the team. My guess it could be totally different this year. For me they haven't proven yet they can play again at this level who could has been the play of their life (unlike Dats, Nick, Hudler, Sammy, Zatta) You hit the jugular with your second post. What bring Stuart is experience, but honestly we have too much $$ tied in defence right now and for the future. In the cap world you need to bring young guys up with low salary quite often and you re unable to keep all your proven elements, that s it. The price between a Stuart and a Ericsson could be a Hudler like i stated before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Well that's true that during playoff they have performed very well, BUT not really against the nashville serie, and for Stuart, not really before playoff time. We could all be biaised because we keep in mind this image of Stuart and Kronner performing during the playoff while all the team was clicking and there was a great dynamic around the team. My guess it could be totally different this year. For me they haven't proven yet they can play again at this level who could has been the play of their life (unlike Dats, Nick, Hudler, Sammy, Zatta) You hit the jugular with your second post. What bring Stuart is experience, but honestly we have too much $$ tied in defence right now and for the future. In the cap world you need to bring young guys up with low salary quite often and you re unable to keep all your proven elements, that s it. The price between a Stuart and a Ericsson could be a Hudler like i stated before. What is that based on? Pessimism? Stuart was a trade deadline acquisition and shortly after he came to the Wings, he was out with a broken finger right up to the start of the playoffs. So, yea, he didn't get going until the playoffs but that is understandable. You are correct that Kronner has only had the 1 great playoff year but he was out the year before for the entire playoff and the year before that was the year of the Edmonton debacle so in all fairness, he has only had 1 year where he had the chance to step it up for the playoffs. As far as Ericsson, if the Wings decide he is ready and bring him up next year, he will most likely take a spot on the 3rd pairing or be the 7th guy. It's not likely that the will trade away a number 3 or 4 D man to help with the salary cap. Most likely trade bait as has been discussed here ad nauseum - Lebda, Sammy, Fillpula, Lilja, Meech, Kopecky. It's unlikely that Stuart is on the list unless he starts to totally suck and that's not gonna happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlueMonk 102 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I also want to say that scratching Kopecky to give Chelly a cameo was pure BULLs***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Scratching Kopecky is always a good idea, regardless of the reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Kronwall and Stuart haven't been extraordinary, nor terrible. They're fine. If they are healthy and able to play in the playoffs like normal and don't play physical like they are known for here, then I'll say that something is up in a not-so-good way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Both guys have an atrocious plus/minus right now, so they definitely need to pick it up. At times they look lost out there when someone sneaks in around the net and neither guy picks him up. I guess Babcock can trying switching defensive pairs with the top 4, but I'm not sure if even that will help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellowknife Redwing 57 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Every game I watch this team I find myself applauding Andreas Lilja and questioning Niklas Kronwall. There is something very wrong with that. I think Stuart has actually looked pretty damn good so far this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I agree with you that Kronwall is not playing well this year. I think that Babs needs to sit him out for a game or two just to get some fire back into him. He is sitting in second as far as ice time goes at 23:21 and he is rated at -4. Not what you want to see out of a top 4 D which plays on the power play. His hitting also seems to be not what it should be. Trade Stuart????? You have to be kidding me. He is leading the team in hits(100) Lilja is second with 65. He was brought in to be a strong defensivley and I think that he has shown that. Yes he is sitting at 0 +/- but I think it will turn around as we move on. I wonder at times if Kronwall and Stuart should play more together ( PP and PK ) to build more chemistry. Putting Stuart on the PP would allow Kronner to jump into the play more insted of covering Sammys butt.( just my opinion) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ben_usmc 253 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Stuart has played good enough for me, he isn't getting paid even as much as Scott Hannahan; who plays like Stuart except sucks. Kronner has blown lately, but I think he maybe trying to do to much with is spin-o-ramas and s***. He needs to pull a Lilja or Lebda and simpfly his game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Scratching Kopecky is always a good idea, regardless of the reason. As for Stuart and Kronwall, I'd pair them with Lidstrom and Rafalski. Just to get some balance defensively, and more hitting throughout the line-up. But dont worry, they'll come to play in the post season, head hunting time begins in April. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingNut 25 5 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Why in God's name would we trade any of our Dmen? These trade idea threads I see are nothing more than moronic musings. Trades aren't as easy in the new NHL and our Wings learned the hard way in 2007 about having defensive depth. No one is going anywhere and truthfully we can't afford to lose anyone. IF someone gets traded, it'll be someone like Lebda or Meech, not a Stuart or Rafalski. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I've been quite happy with Stuarts.. plenty of hits, both the big open ice stuff and just good ol' grindy crunches into the boards. He's confident about joining the rush in an appropriate situation and he doesn't often make a really bad blender. His positioning is solid. His shot isn't spectacular, but it gets to the net area. My biggest gripe with him when he first joined the team was his passing, and it's improved greatly since the playoffs. Kronwall, on the other hand, has been making frequent mistakes and seems to have lost his big open ice hits, though his offense has still been good. He'll have a brilliant game one day and a game full of blunders the next. I'm happy a fire was lit under Lebda's ass. He hasn't been making dumb blunders and he's been frequently using that good speed of his to move up ice and join the rush -- and it shows in both his rising point totals and his +/-. I hope he starts to become a reliable 3rd pairing offensive d-man. Lilja.. well, he does his role very well, especially considering other teams are playing 1 to 2 million extra for reliable, PK-worth defensive defensemen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FireCaptain 563 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Now that Chelly is healthy they have an extra defenceman so Kronner and Stuart should be healthy scratches for a few games to light a fire under their asses!!!!!!!!!! I also want to say that scratching Kopecky to give Chelly a cameo was pure BULLs***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well then, clearly you have no idea what the words "loyalty" and "team" mean. Part of what draws players to the Wings is the loyalty and family atmosphere. There's no way you sit Cheli for that game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Both guys have an atrocious plus/minus right now, so they definitely need to pick it up. At times they look lost out there when someone sneaks in around the net and neither guy picks him up. I guess Babcock can trying switching defensive pairs with the top 4, but I'm not sure if even that will help. Stuart is even (0) Kronwall is -4 I wouldn't call that atrocious. Atrocious would be Kris Draper at -11. League worst for defensemen is -21 (Brendan Witt) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Now that Chelly is healthy they have an extra defenceman so Kronner and Stuart should be healthy scratches for a few games to light a fire under their asses!!!!!!!!!! I also want to say that scratching Kopecky to give Chelly a cameo was pure BULLs***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are kidding right? If not then you have completly missed what it means to be part of a team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lidstromrules16 7 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 You are kidding right? If not then you have completly missed what it means to be part of a team. Kopecky missed that too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z and D for the C 712 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 The second goal last night wasn't completely Kronner's fault or anything (like he's done before this year). It was a great play by whoever was on the boards when he took the puck. He had it knocked off his stick, no way to prevent hat really. The idea of trading Stuart is hysterical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOwl 77 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Stuart is a beast! Kronwall is looking like the worst of the top 6 D men these days. One or two guys having a "Stanley Cup" hangover could explain why the wings are playing not like themselves at times. Lidstrom and Osgood seem to have worked through it. But Kronwall who had an excellent playoffs with 15 assists is struggling now. He'll come around. We should trade someone to Toronto to get Steffan Kronwall, and get an all Kronwall D pairing. How badass would that be? Theirs a huge point to made though, the D is taking up a huge portion of the cap. Stuart and Kronwall at 3 million, Rafa at 6, Lidstrom at 7.45. One has got to go to free up cap room for the forwards. Why can't Chelios be a top 4 D man anymore? He hasn't played that badly. Kindle could be brought up. Trading a D-man could mean losing both Franzen and Hossa, or getting hold of a top tier goaltender. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Stuart is even (0) Kronwall is -4 I wouldn't call that atrocious. Atrocious would be Kris Draper at -11. League worst for defensemen is -21 (Brendan Witt) Based on Red Wings standards this is an atrocious plus/minus for both Kronwall and Stuart. Draper has probably been an even bigger disappointment this year, but don't forget that he's a lot older and a lot less important to this team than Kronwall and Stuart are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingNut 25 5 Report post Posted January 5, 2009 Chelios is obviously not happy about how little he has played this year. All you have to do is read his quotes from interviews this season. He's for sure gone after this season, probably to Chicago or LA. I truly believe that when Lids' contract is up that he'll take, say $4 million to help the cap situation. He isn't the type who needs to be the top dog in terms of dollars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
