redwinger40 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 I just ran across a great article on Red Wings Central (http://www.redwingscentral.com/stories/2009_01/05_RWCReport.php). I have always been a big fan of Jimmy Howard, but I have never really felt that he could be anything but a 2nd tier goaltender at the NHL level. That being said, I have always coveted an elite goalie for the Red Wings. Granted, we have had lots of very good goalies over the past several years, but only Hasek (during his 1st tenure) really deverved the status of elite in my opinion. I think Larsson could develop into this elite goalie that the Wings have been lacking. At only 21 he was the Swedish Elite's Goalie of the Year last year and he has not missed a beat switching to North American hockey this year. Larsson is only 22, but I think the Wings should consider moving Howard so that Larsson can develop more and start contributing to the big squad maybe as early as next year. I think 2-3 years down the road we may have an elite goaltender (think Lundqvist) that could be a wall in Detroit for years to come. I realize that McCollum is also playing great, but I think that Larsson could be great. Let the discussion begin....! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 These very same things were said about J-Ho right after he was drafted as well. He was supposed to be ready to start out of college. Goalies for some reason seem to take longer than any other position to really develop. Even Hasek wasn't HASEK until a little bit older age. A guy like Roy (great from day 1 on) is very rare, the Habs may have found another one in Price and Maybe Fluery ww/ the Pens, but even they had sloppy starts. I think the only teams that can afford to develop young goalies are the teams that are not competing for the cup every year. Since the Wings aren't in that category it is a much bigger chance to entrust your team to a young unproven netminder. Unlike any other position one player makes such an impact, if Ralf is struggling the rest of the D is there to share minutes or pick up the slack. If Z is slow there are 12-13 other forwards that can help out. A goalie is on an island and the more they struggle the more (to me) it seems to get in their heads. Goaltending is all about confidence, believing that no matter what the break down in front of you, you have no doubt you can make the save. A bad game can lead to a bad week to a bad month much easier for a goalie. I too would love to see the Wings develop a young goalie (especially J-ho, seeing as I am from Maine) and bring them up to the ranks of starting Stanley cup netminder, however the last one to do that was Ozzie, and that was the start of the era of domination, so the risk was a little less, plus with no cap they could go out and not worry the price tag of a starter. Now if they bring up J-ho (pretending Ozzie and Conk don't exist) they are hindered by the cap as to whom they can go out and get, where as before the cap they could go out and sign Cujo when they already had Hasek and Legace. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslionstigers 12 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 I understand goaltenders for the most part take awhile to develop and i was a big fan of Jimmy developing into our goaltender. Although with Larsson and McCollum in the mix it may be time to move Jimmy. I would much rather see Larsson get more ice time because the way it looks he has way more potential than Jimmy. Then again it may not be a bad thing to have them battling for ice time, competition can only make you better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Well out of McCollum, Larson, and Howard, all with great stats before being signed, and all definitely under Holland's "long term development" list, we're bound to strike gold in one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blueliner 69 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Ken Holland has already said that Howard is next in line if Osgood or Conklin go down because he has experience in the NHL. Here's my prediction. Conklin will be gone next year and Howard will back-up Osgood, leaving Larsson the starter in Grand Rapids with McCollum as his back-up. Then once Ozzie is done Larsson will be brought up to compete for the starting job, while McCollum is the starter in Grand Rapids. But who knows. Maybe they'll keep Conklin around and have three goalies like the Oilers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaticWithABeat 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Signing Conklin put serious doubt in my mind for Howard's future with the Wings. He has had four years to prove himself worthy of a roster spot and they're still not confident enough in him to give him a backup job. Now he's getting outplayed by younger Daniel Larsson, with McCollum looking very good and knocking on the door for GR. Someone is going to have to go soon, and there's not much question who the least valuable of the big three goalie prospects is right now. I think next season will be judgment day for Howard. If he doesn't earn the backup job I would expect to see him moved, if they don't do it before then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 J-Ho will no longer be waiver exempt next year because of his age right, so he has to be up on the main roster ala Quincey right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) J-Ho will no longer be waiver exempt next year because of his age right, so he has to be up on the main roster ala Quincey right? This my friend is the exact reason why he is in GR (IMO), well that and that pesky Hossa put the wings in cap peril and they can not call anybody up. The Wings could have brought up J-Ho as the back up, if he failed gone after another back up of Conklin's ilk. However up against the cap they would be hard pressed to find a back up with the solid seasons Conk block has had as a back up for that price. Maybe they could have made a play at Emery but me thinks he would have cost too much. Ericsson and Howard and Leino and Helm have all been touted by Babcock as highly talented (well not J-ho) and have been sent down. Not because the Wings don't have faith or don't think they can do the job, but because the wings are up against the cap, calling up anyone right now is near impossible, even Downey who they signed to a 2 way deal to have some relief. Unless a player goes on LTIR the Wings are stuck with what they got right now. Edited January 8, 2009 by Opie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Goalies for some reason seem to take longer than any other position to really develop. Even Hasek wasn't HASEK until a little bit older age. A guy like Roy (great from day 1 on) is very rare, the Habs may have found another one in Price and Maybe Fluery ww/ the Pens, but even they had sloppy starts. I agree with all your post, except I wanted to add a little clarification on Hasek. Because of the iron curtain, Hasek was not able to come over to north america until 1990, when he was 26 years old. Prior to that, he was the Czech goaltender of the year 5 years running and the Czech Player of the Year for three years in a country with great hockey players -- that with Hasek took 3 bronzes at the World Championship in '87, '89 and '90 as well as a silver in '83. He was horribly mismanaged in Chicago, and was unfortunately playing behind Eddie Belfour during Belfour's prime. After being traded to Buffalo, in his very first year as a starter he won the Vezina (and incidently Roy never won a single Vezina again). Many assume he was a late bloomer, when in actuality he was dominating one of the best hockey countries in the world, prior to being able to come over to the NHL. Edited January 8, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Did anyone see the WJC Canada-US game? I heard that McCollum looked terrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwinger40 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 I agree with all your post, except I wanted to add a little clarification on Hasek. Because of the iron curtain, Hasek was not able to come over to north america until 1990, when he was 26 years old. Prior to that, he was the Czech goaltender of the year 5 years running and the Czech Player of the Year for three years in a country with great hockey players. I totally agree with this point, which is why i made the initial post in the first place. Larsson has played against great competition, granted not NHL caliber, and has adapted and excelled at each level. The point was made that we cannot put in an unproven goalie since we are perinially Cup contenders, and I agree with that logic to some extent, but wasn't it just last year that the Habs (who were Cup contenders) put their faith in a largely unproven (in NHL experience) young goalie named Carey Price? I'm just saying that we could have a special kid here and should look to see what he can do. Howard has had his chance to prove himself and has proven that he is simply mediocre. It will be interesting to see how this plays out next year. I do love the problem of having too many good young goaltenders though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) I totally agree with this point, which is why i made the initial post in the first place. Larsson has played against great competition, granted not NHL caliber, and has adapted and excelled at each level. The point was made that we cannot put in an unproven goalie since we are perinially Cup contenders, and I agree with that logic to some extent, but wasn't it just last year that the Habs (who were Cup contenders) put their faith in a largely unproven (in NHL experience) young goalie named Carey Price? I'm just saying that we could have a special kid here and should look to see what he can do. Howard has had his chance to prove himself and has proven that he is simply mediocre. It will be interesting to see how this plays out next year. I do love the problem of having too many good young goaltenders though... Yeah but it was Carey Price or Huet. Not like it is a 3 time cup winner or an unproven. And Price had played at the NHL level and was excelling. Larsson nor Howard have played enough time at the NHL level to risk what the Habs did. And being in contention one year was not my point, I was talking about teams that are in it to win it (Like Yzerman, sorry) every year. Last year the Habs were a top seed, what about the year before. I was more referring to teams like SJ, DET, COL (back in the day), NJ (with a healthy Broduer), so on and so forth. Also when did J-Ho get a chance to prove himself? You mean last year when he came up and the top D pairing Was Lebda and Lilja due to injuries and he lost 1-0 to Dallas? Edited January 8, 2009 by Opie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2probert4 8 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Ken Holland has already said that Howard is next in line if Osgood or Conklin go down because he has experience in the NHL. Here's my prediction. Conklin will be gone next year and Howard will back-up Osgood, leaving Larsson the starter in Grand Rapids with McCollum as his back-up. Then once Ozzie is done Larsson will be brought up to compete for the starting job, while McCollum is the starter in Grand Rapids. But who knows. Maybe they'll keep Conklin around and have three goalies like the Oilers. its also the things that Holland does that speaks louder than his words..... Larsson is brought over here from Sweden immediately to learn the North American game AND McCollum is drafted in the 1st round... Wings brass have said publicly in the past 2 years that Howard has not developed the way they would have liked. It doesn't look good for Howard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 Did anyone see the WJC Canada-US game? I heard that McCollum looked terrible. Good thing it's a WJC game and not something that will matter in the long run All goalies struggle for stretches, every single goalie on the all-time win list had terrible stretches in his career. All that matters is how they rebound from those strings of bad games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 Hate to tell you this, but Conk may be here for a little bit longer. Also, when Osgood departs finally, the Wings will bring in another seasoned goalie. Anyone notice that pattern over the last 10-12 years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daniel1 32 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 Well out of McCollum, Larson, and Howard, all with great stats before being signed, and all definitely under Holland's "long term development" list, we're bound to strike gold in one of them. Let's hope it's in the one we keep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DYags 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 The plan coming into this year was to give Howard one more year in GR before he was brought up next year to back up Ozzie. But with Conklin playing so well for so little, do you guys think this changes next years plans? Meaning, do you think Holland would be willing to trade away Howard after all the time they've put into developing him just so they can sign Conklin again? I don't see Howard signing a new deal if he knows he's going to be in GR for another year or two. But I also don't see Holland sending Conklin on his way if he has interest in staying. Three goalie tandem, maybe? Seems unlikely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kira 451 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 I saw Daniel Larsson at camp, and I thought he was great. In one of the games, I can't remember which one, he stopped everything but one, and that was a Nick Lidstrom bullet. You couldn't have stopped that shot unless you were a cement wall. He was great, and I was impressed with him. Not to diss Jim Howard, but I was more impressed with Daniel and Thomas McCollum both. If these two are our future, I think we are in pretty good hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stormboy 47 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 The plan coming into this year was to give Howard one more year in GR before he was brought up next year to back up Ozzie. But with Conklin playing so well for so little, do you guys think this changes next years plans? Meaning, do you think Holland would be willing to trade away Howard after all the time they've put into developing him just so they can sign Conklin again? I don't see Howard signing a new deal if he knows he's going to be in GR for another year or two. But I also don't see Holland sending Conklin on his way if he has interest in staying. Three goalie tandem, maybe? Seems unlikely. my only thought here is that i wonder if we'll be able to sign conks for such a low price again. what's ozzie getting paid now, 1.7 this year and 1.4 or something next year? conks is making half that? obviously, the playoffs will make a big difference in terms of signing (i.e. if ozzie carries us to another cup or deep into the playoffs, conks will likely get paid less next year than if HE carries us deep into the playoffs). but right now conks numbers are way better than ozzie's and he's getting more starts. we're midway right now, so who knows how it will all end up. but assuming the season ended today, i have a hard time seeing conks re-signing with us for half ozzie's salary when he has outplayed him. just adds another dimension to the discussions of next years' plans, in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XxGoWingsxX 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 my only thought here is that i wonder if we'll be able to sign conks for such a low price again. what's ozzie getting paid now, 1.7 this year and 1.4 or something next year? conks is making half that? obviously, the playoffs will make a big difference in terms of signing (i.e. if ozzie carries us to another cup or deep into the playoffs, conks will likely get paid less next year than if HE carries us deep into the playoffs). but right now conks numbers are way better than ozzie's and he's getting more starts. we're midway right now, so who knows how it will all end up. but assuming the season ended today, i have a hard time seeing conks re-signing with us for half ozzie's salary when he has outplayed him. just adds another dimension to the discussions of next years' plans, in my opinion. I agree about everything u just said, although the past 2 starts for ozzie have been VERY strong....he seems to be back in form from the playoffs last year. I was at the dal game and he was great. I have a feeling his time off did him alot of good. I hope ozzie is back in great form, and with conks playing well thus far, maybe they will feel the need to battle it out for bab's good graces, and more starts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GROwl 5 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 Well, Howard didn't look good again last night. Three out of the four were fairly soft goals. One he tried to do a Hasek and came out of the crease to the top of the left face off circle to poke check it away. It didn't work out that way. The Philadelphia Phantom ended up skating right around him to an empty net. I can't wait to see Larsson back in net tonight! It will be against Philadelphia again, so hopefully a good test to see if he fares better than Jimmy did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
