BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 If the awards were handed out today, how would it look? I'd say... Hart - Evgeni Malkin Vezina - Niklas Backstrom Calder - Steve Mason Norris - Dan Boyle Selke - Mike Richards Adams - Claude Julien Byng - Zach Parise Masterton - Steve Sullivan New crop of award winners I must say, but it looks like it could bring on much debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoalieManPat 1,007 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Id put Mason in for Vezina Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Id put Mason in for Vezina It's debatable considering he leads the league in both SV%, GAA, and shutouts on a team like Columbus, but considering Backstrom is just below Mason in all those categories with more wins and having starting 10 more games... I gave Backstrom the nod. I don't know though, picking the Vezina was difficult... It would be much more easier had Brodeur and/or Luongo stayed healthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Whoops, didn't see there was already a thread like this at the bottom of the page... Sorry folks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) If the awards were handed out today, how would it look? I'd say... Hart - Evgeni Malkin Vezina - Niklas Backstrom Calder - Steve Mason Norris - Dan Boyle Selke - Mike Richards Adams - Claude Julien Byng - Zach Parise Masterton - Steve Sullivan New crop of award winners I must say, but it looks like it could bring on much debate. Actually not a horrible list, though I'd argue with a couple. Kinda hard to give Geno a Hart when his team doesn't even have a playoff berth at the moment. Geno's Hart finalist position last year was well earned for tearing ass when Crosby and MAF were out. A fully healthy Pens team, on the other hand (not like this one is) would be about as likely to have a Hart winner as the Wings. The Hart nowadays seems to be handed mostly to spectacular players on unspectacular teams, generally with someone that carries their team into the playoffs. Sorta like a 'Biggest Loser' award. Some people will argue Minny's system, but Backstrom is as solid a Vezina pick as any of the other frontrunners at this point. If Mason continues his level of play throughout the season, he's my Calder pick, too. I have to continually remind myself that the Norris isn't for defensive play, but rather, for defensemen. That can range from Chris Chelios defense to Paul Coffey offense. That in mind, Boyle is a respectable choice, though there are others I'd give it to ahead of him. Selke -- I can't justify giving this to someone other than Datsyuk right now.. of the top 5 in takeaways, he has by far the lowest number of giveaways, and the best ratio. He also has the best TA:GA ratio for first line players. Mike Richards is at something like 37:48 TA:GA, Datsyuk is at 47:23. Mike Richards also has 3x the PIM as Datsyuk. Putting your team on the PK doesn't exactly help defense. Richards leads in hits with about 2x the hits -- though, from what I've seen, Datsyuk has more of the big, open ice hits. Richards also has about 4x the shots blocked of Datsyuk.. then again, I imagine that's a stat that the Flyers have to exercise a lot more than the Wings, considering the dominance of the Wings puck possession. Another stat where Richards leads Datsyuk is TOI and PKTOI.. but again, that's a team "issue", especially considering the Flyers injury situation. Richards has 4 SHG as compared to Datsyuk's 1, but then again, compare their PKTOI and the PIM totals of the two teams and I think you'll see Richards gets at least a few more chances to do so. In all other stats (points, +/-, etc) Datsyuk and Richards are very close. As for the Adams, Claude Julien is certainly deserving thus far.. though it's going to be ridiculous if Babs doesn't get one sooner or later. Byng -- Datsyuk has 6 less PIMs and a few more hits than Parise with about 1:00 extra TOI/G. Parise certainly isn't a bad choice, but we could once again hear a heavily accented one-liner when this award is handed out. Masterton -- Yea, probably. Edit: Datsyuk is 2nd in TAs and has by far the best TA:GA ratio out of anyone in the top 100 for TAs except Kesler, who is top 10 in TAs as well. Given his other stats, Kesler would be my only other choice for Selke, though given how the voters value points for Selkes nowadays (???) I'd call it a Datsyuk lock. Edited January 12, 2009 by Datsyerberger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b.shanafan14 733 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Actually not a horrible list, though I'd argue with a couple. Kinda hard to give Geno a Hart when his team doesn't even have a playoff berth at the moment. Geno's Hart finalist position last year was well earned for tearing ass when Crosby and MAF were out. A fully healthy Pens team, on the other hand (not like this one is) would be about as likely to have a Hart winner as the Wings. The Hart nowadays seems to be handed mostly to spectacular players on unspectacular teams, generally with someone that carries their team into the playoffs. Sorta like a 'Biggest Loser' award. Some people will argue Minny's system, but Backstrom is as solid a Vezina pick as any of the other frontrunners at this point. If Mason continues his level of play throughout the season, he's my Calder pick, too. I have to continually remind myself that the Norris isn't for defensive play, but rather, for defensemen. That can range from Chris Chelios defense to Paul Coffey offense. That in mind, Boyle is a respectable choice, though there are others I'd give it to ahead of him. Selke -- I can't justify giving this to someone other than Datsyuk right now.. of the top 5 in takeaways, he has by far the lowest number of giveaways, and the best ratio. He also has the best TA:GA ratio for first line players. Mike Richards is at something like 37:48 TA:GA, Datsyuk is at 47:23. Mike Richards also has 3x the PIM as Datsyuk. Putting your team on the PK doesn't exactly help defense. Richards leads in hits with about 2x the hits -- though, from what I've seen, Datsyuk has more of the big, open ice hits. Richards also has about 4x the shots blocked of Datsyuk.. then again, I imagine that's a stat that the Flyers have to exercise a lot more than the Wings, considering the dominance of the Wings puck possession. Another stat where Richards leads Datsyuk is TOI and PKTOI.. but again, that's a team "issue", especially considering the Flyers injury situation. Richards has 4 SHG as compared to Datsyuk's 1, but then again, compare their PKTOI and the PIM totals of the two teams and I think you'll see Richards gets at least a few more chances to do so. In all other stats (points, +/-, etc) Datsyuk and Richards are very close. As for the Adams, Claude Julien is certainly deserving thus far.. though it's going to be ridiculous if Babs doesn't get one sooner or later. Byng -- Datsyuk has 6 less PIMs and a few more hits than Parise with about 1:00 extra TOI/G. Parise certainly isn't a bad choice, but we could once again hear a heavily accented one-liner when this award is handed out. Masterton -- Yea, probably. This is a good tweek. Definitely see Datsyuk still with the Selke and Byng and I see Ovechkin pulling out the Hart again. I can't really argue with Bactstrom for Vezina right now, but I think Mason is the best goaltender in the league right now in a season without Luongo and Brodeur. Kid is definately my Calder pick too, tho the freshman class this year is pretty deep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Hunwick may put up a stink in the Calder but unless Mason absolutely s***s the bed it is his to be had at this point! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 This is a good tweek. Definitely see Datsyuk still with the Selke and Byng and I see Ovechkin pulling out the Hart again. I can't really argue with Bactstrom for Vezina right now, but I think Mason is the best goaltender in the league right now in a season without Luongo and Brodeur. Kid is definately my Calder pick too, tho the freshman class this year is pretty deep. Yea.. the only reason I agree with the Backstrom pick over Mason is because of the 10 game difference between them with similar stats. as BeeRYCE pointed out. You could argue the Minny system, but in that case you should strip some Vezinas and such from Brodeur and some Jennings and maybe a cup or two from Ozzy, but just.. no. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Actually not a horrible list, though I'd argue with a couple. Kinda hard to give Geno a Hart when his team doesn't even have a playoff berth at the moment. Geno's Hart finalist position last year was well earned for tearing ass when Crosby and MAF were out. A fully healthy Pens team, on the other hand (not like this one is) would be about as likely to have a Hart winner as the Wings. The Hart nowadays seems to be handed mostly to spectacular players on unspectacular teams, generally with someone that carries their team into the playoffs. Sorta like a 'Biggest Loser' award. Some people will argue Minny's system, but Backstrom is as solid a Vezina pick as any of the other frontrunners at this point. If Mason continues his level of play throughout the season, he's my Calder pick, too. I have to continually remind myself that the Norris isn't for defensive play, but rather, for defensemen. That can range from Chris Chelios defense to Paul Coffey offense. That in mind, Boyle is a respectable choice, though there are others I'd give it to ahead of him. Selke -- I can't justify giving this to someone other than Datsyuk right now.. of the top 5 in takeaways, he has by far the lowest number of giveaways, and the best ratio. He also has the best TA:GA ratio for first line players. Mike Richards is at something like 37:48 TA:GA, Datsyuk is at 47:23. Mike Richards also has 3x the PIM as Datsyuk. Putting your team on the PK doesn't exactly help defense. Richards leads in hits with about 2x the hits -- though, from what I've seen, Datsyuk has more of the big, open ice hits. Richards also has about 4x the shots blocked of Datsyuk.. then again, I imagine that's a stat that the Flyers have to exercise a lot more than the Wings, considering the dominance of the Wings puck possession. Another stat where Richards leads Datsyuk is TOI and PKTOI.. but again, that's a team "issue", especially considering the Flyers injury situation. Richards has 4 SHG as compared to Datsyuk's 1, but then again, compare their PKTOI and the PIM totals of the two teams and I think you'll see Richards gets at least a few more chances to do so. In all other stats (points, +/-, etc) Datsyuk and Richards are very close. As for the Adams, Claude Julien is certainly deserving thus far.. though it's going to be ridiculous if Babs doesn't get one sooner or later. Byng -- Datsyuk has 6 less PIMs and a few more hits than Parise with about 1:00 extra TOI/G. Parise certainly isn't a bad choice, but we could once again hear a heavily accented one-liner when this award is handed out. Masterton -- Yea, probably. Edit: Datsyuk is 2nd in TAs and has by far the best TA:GA ratio out of anyone in the top 100 for TAs except Kesler, who is top 10 in TAs as well. Given his other stats, Kesler would be my only other choice for Selke, though given how the voters value points for Selkes nowadays (???) I'd call it a Datsyuk lock. You make it sound as if the most important stat when determing who should win the selke is the takeaway to giveaway ratio. I doubt many voters actually look at it that way. In fact, this award is probably based less on stats then most of the other awards. Regarding Malkin, a lot of people here didn't have a problem giving Ovechkin the hart even if his team didn't make the playoffs and he wasn't even leading the league in scoring by very much. That said, I don't see Malkin getting the hart, he'll just need to get a look right now just because his scoring is currently so high. However, if I was voting and taking a deeper look, don't think think he's deserving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 You make it sound as if the most important stat when determing who should win the selke is the takeaway to giveaway ratio. I doubt many voters actually look at it that way. In fact, this award is probably based less on stats then most of the other awards. Regarding Malkin, a lot of people here didn't have a problem giving Ovechkin the hart even if his team didn't make the playoffs and he wasn't even leading the league in scoring by very much. That said, I don't see Malkin getting the hart, he'll just need to get a look right now just because his scoring is currently so high. However, if I was voting and taking a deeper look, don't think think he's deserving. Malkin has Crosby, Ovechkin has who again??? Bad analogy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 You make it sound as if the most important stat when determing who should win the selke is the takeaway to giveaway ratio. I doubt many voters actually look at it that way. In fact, this award is probably based less on stats then most of the other awards. Regarding Malkin, a lot of people here didn't have a problem giving Ovechkin the hart even if his team didn't make the playoffs and he wasn't even leading the league in scoring by very much. That said, I don't see Malkin getting the hart, he'll just need to get a look right now just because his scoring is currently so high. However, if I was voting and taking a deeper look, don't think think he's deserving. Wasn't really my intent. I was pointing out the uniqueness of the stat as he's one of only two players who has those sort of TA/GA numbers, AND plays against the other team's top lines regularly, the other being Kesler. A testament to the abilities of both players. I hope it's not otherwise necessary to point out what Datsyuk is good at defensively. As for the latter, Ovy's team made the playoffs, and he scored about 1/4 of his team's goals. That team has a more ordinary first liner (say, Spezza or Heatley) and they're fishing for draft picks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I love the general lack of bias this thread has. Awesome list, also. Can't argue with much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) I'd say Hart - Alexander Ovechkin, per usual Vezina - Tim Thomas Calder - Steve Mason Norris - Nicklas Lidström Selke - Pavel Datsyuk Adams - Mike Babcock Edited January 12, 2009 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I love the general lack of bias this thread has. Awesome list, also. Can't argue with much. At first I thought you were being sarcastic and I thought, "here we go again." Took me a minute to see you're serious. And I agree. At the risk of sounding like a Homer, i'd have to give the Selke to Dats, he's incredible. However, I guess I am biased in the regard that I certainly do watch a lot more Red Wings hockey than any other team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I actually don't expect Ovy to win the Hart this year. The team around him doesn't suck enough. If either Brodeur or Luongo come back from injury and their team vaults back up in the standings, bank on one of them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Malkin has Crosby, Ovechkin has who again??? Bad analogy Are you serious? The suggestion that Ovechkin plays with scrubs can only last so long and we are well beyond that point. The Caps have several strong players now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Are you serious? The suggestion that Ovechkin plays with scrubs can only last so long and we are well beyond that point. The Caps have several strong players now. Your post that I quoted was talking past tense as in last year (my assumption), last year who did AO have the remotely comes close to what Evgeni has??? Go ahead look it up I will wait. I will also wait for you to tell me what netminder AO has had that comes close to holding MAF's jock, does he play with another top 10 player in the league? AO has Feds (way past his prime), Semin (could be great but is a decent player right now), Green (looking good but is no Gonchar), so Surely you must be referring to Nylander and Poti as the top talent he has with him, so you are still wrong Evgeni Malkin plays with way better talent than AO, that would be like picking Dats or Lids or Z for Hart over AO, he is doing great things with no other top level talent on his team. Evgeni has: Crosby, Gonchar, MAF! Hell he has Crosby, whose name you may have heard mentioned in talks about who is the best player in the league, along side of AO and Malkin (and others). And Crosby has been healthy all year to date. Last year Malkin carried the team in Crosby's abscence, give it to him last year, fine, this year he has better weapons without a doubt than AO, not even a question. And AO is doing things not done in decades is a lot more impressive than a guy doing great things with an all world talent on his team/line! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dat's sick 1,002 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Don't forget Backstrom, the guy is I think just outside the top 10 in the league in points, and he's a big reason why Ovie scores the amount of goals he does. Of course, Backstrom gets a lot of easy assists by passing the puck to Ovie who then takes the puck across the ice and scores all on his own. Ovie is a perfect candidate for the Hart though. The Caps wouldn't be anywhere near the position they have now without him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Your post that I quoted was talking past tense as in last year (my assumption), last year who did AO have the remotely comes close to what Evgeni has??? Go ahead look it up I will wait. I will also wait for you to tell me what netminder AO has had that comes close to holding MAF's jock, does he play with another top 10 player in the league? AO has Feds (way past his prime), Semin (could be great but is a decent player right now), Green (looking good but is no Gonchar), so Surely you must be referring to Nylander and Poti as the top talent he has with him, so you are still wrong Evgeni Malkin plays with way better talent than AO, that would be like picking Dats or Lids or Z for Hart over AO, he is doing great things with no other top level talent on his team. Evgeni has: Crosby, Gonchar, MAF! Hell he has Crosby, whose name you may have heard mentioned in talks about who is the best player in the league, along side of AO and Malkin (and others). And Crosby has been healthy all year to date. Last year Malkin carried the team in Crosby's abscence, give it to him last year, fine, this year he has better weapons without a doubt than AO, not even a question. And AO is doing things not done in decades is a lot more impressive than a guy doing great things with an all world talent on his team/line! Let me be clear....I don't think Malkin deserves the Hart. I did think about the past tense, but forgot to talk about that. But regarding your comment that, without a dbout, Malkin has more to work with "this year" than Ovechkin, I can't agree, at all. You say Crosby has been healthy all year, which isn't true, sure, he's played every game, but he's far from healthy.....ultimately, it doesn't really matter, they are rarely on the ice together (I understand playing separately still takes away from Hart worthiness, but I'm just pointing out that his stats are not inflated because they don't play a lot together). Apart from Crosby, that team right now doesn't have a heck of a lot to work with. Gonchar hasn't played a game this year, Whitney just started playing, Fluery has been out quite a bit. Fedetenko is injured for awhile now, etc., etc. I'm not even sure what I'm arguing anymore, because I think I'm sounding like I think Malkin has nothing to work with and should get lots of consideration, which I am not. I think all I wanted to point out is that Ovechkin didn't have much to work with in his rookie year, had a little bit more to work with in year 2, even more in year 3 (say what you want, but Huet was a big reason that team got into the playoffs as well) and now this year, his supporting cast is that much stronger. The personnel on the Caps probably aren't as good as the personnel on the Pens if everyone is healthy, but that certainly hasn't been the case so far this year. The Pens have been garbage for the last month or so as well, so that hurts Malkin's chances for Hart. I caught some of CBC's hotstove on the weekend and there were some interesting comments. Something along the lines of everyone hating the coach and players have approached Crosby to speak to management to try and get something done about it. Doesn't sound good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 1st Which current NHLer that plays full time is healthy? 2nd There is of course the theory that by him being a top line talent player on a second line that he sees less talented defensive players than top line talent. As evidence by last post season when he very rarely saw Z and Dats. 3rd Huet was picked up at the deadline, the team was fighting for the 8 spot before he showed up, did he help sure was he a big reason, no, AO was THE REASON! I am not saying Malkin doesn't deserve consideration but you brought up the comparison of them both working with similar talent, which IMO is very wrong. Malkin is a Hart candidate playing with a Hart winner, AO is a Hart winner playing with either has beens or could be's. Dramatic difference! But I can agree to disagree for the sake of the thread and sanity in general!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingNut 25 5 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Sorry, but Malkin does not win the Hart with Pitt being where they are. They could still miss the playoffs without him. My list: Hart - Alexander Ovechkin (Datsyuk runner up) Vezina - Tim Thomas Calder - Steve Mason Norris - Dan Boyle Selke - Mike Richards Adams - Todd McClellan Byng - Pavel Datsyuk Masterton - Steve Sullivan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I'm still feeling a goalie for Hart this year.. either Luongo or Brodeur if their team goes on a tear after they return, or Mason if he drags that craptastic Columbus team into the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 I'm still feeling a goalie for Hart this year.. either Luongo or Brodeur if their team goes on a tear after they return, or Mason if he drags that craptastic Columbus team into the playoffs. Sarcasm? I'm not quite sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 Sarcasm? I'm not quite sure. Well, technically, Brodeur already went on a tear.. or atleast his elbow did. He's perfectly capable of it. Then again, the hockey world should be so used to Brodeur dragging NJ kicking and screaming into the POs that yea... nevermind Hart consideration for that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Well it certianly would be an achievement for a player to win the Hart playing 20 games or so. People have complained about some of Brodeur's Vezinas. A Hart trophy with 10-15 wins?? Lol. Probably not. Edited January 12, 2009 by Doggy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
