YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Just listened to the clip. Holland says hes already getting calls. I wonder if they're teams soliciting players, or looking to see if Holland is interested in dealing anyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerman191 37 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Why is everybody so keen to trade Kronner? Last year in the playoffs he showed his potential; he was a one man wrecking machine. Aside from that, he's not a terrible deal for 3M a season. Probably not a future Norris winner, but he can hit when he feels like it and is capable of putting up 40+ points. Flip, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to fit the team's needs. He absolutely needs to be put in our top 6, because he's not going to develop on the third line. However, I'm not sure there's a spot for him there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen/Hossa make up a pretty good top six for next year, and everybody but Cleary are going to stay top six. Also, Cleary has a NTC, whereas Flip doesn't, and a 3M third liner is not very efficient. I'd love to see them pick up Neil for a scrub/low pick. Also, Antropov wouldn't be a bad pick up, but I fear he'd cost too much, and we don't have much that appeals to Burke (let's face it, he doesn't exactly like players like Flip). Basically, all I'd like to see them do is establish a REAL grind line (not Maltby-Draper-Kopecky), and play with a little emotion. Zettberg-Datsyuk-Homer Franzen-Hudler-Hossa Leino-Flip-Sammy Neil-Draper-Cleary That would be quite the playoff lineup... I was actually having trouble fitting all of our best players. That gives us two lines of solid offensive talent coupled with defensive-mindedness, one line capable of offense but fitted for solid defensive play, and one line that works hard and provides some energy. Also, Helm could be substituted in for Draper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 (edited) Why is everybody so keen to trade Kronner? Last year in the playoffs he showed his potential; he was a one man wrecking machine. Aside from that, he's not a terrible deal for 3M a season. Probably not a future Norris winner, but he can hit when he feels like it and is capable of putting up 40+ points. Flip, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to fit the team's needs. He absolutely needs to be put in our top 6, because he's not going to develop on the third line. However, I'm not sure there's a spot for him there. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hudler, and Franzen/Hossa make up a pretty good top six for next year, and everybody but Cleary are going to stay top six. Also, Cleary has a NTC, whereas Flip doesn't, and a 3M third liner is not very efficient. I'd love to see them pick up Neil for a scrub/low pick. Also, Antropov wouldn't be a bad pick up, but I fear he'd cost too much, and we don't have much that appeals to Burke (let's face it, he doesn't exactly like players like Flip). Basically, all I'd like to see them do is establish a REAL grind line (not Maltby-Draper-Kopecky), and play with a little emotion. Zettberg-Datsyuk-Homer Franzen-Hudler-Hossa Leino-Flip-Sammy Neil-Draper-Cleary That would be quite the playoff lineup... I was actually having trouble fitting all of our best players. That gives us two lines of solid offensive talent coupled with defensive-mindedness, one line capable of offense but fitted for solid defensive play, and one line that works hard and provides some energy. Also, Helm could be substituted in for Draper. Why are people so keen on trading Kronwall? Because his playoff showing was the exception, not the rule, and because defense has been a bigger problem than offense has. And no, hes not a future Norris winner. As a 28 year old, he has yet to show that he is anything more than a PPQB with a "when I feel like it" physical presence. While his offense has developed nicely over the years, his defense has flat-lined. Its stagnant. Hes making similar defensive mistakes that he made two years ago. The Wings don't need to trade Filppula at the deadline. Our top 3 lines are about as solid as anything in the NHL, and are the only thing that has kept us alive this season. Messing with that is not even a secondary issue, let alone primary. Edit: clarity. Edited February 5, 2009 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzerman191 37 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Why are people so keen on trading Kronwall? Because his playoff showing was the exception, not the rule, and because defense has been a bigger problem than offense has. And no, hes not a future Norris winner. As a 28 year old, he has yet to show that he is anything more than a PPQB with a "when I feel like it" physical presence. While his offense has developed nicely over the years, his defense has flat-lined. Its stagnant. Hes making similar defensive mistakes that he made two years ago. The Wings don't need to trade Filppula. Our top 3 lines are about as solid as anything in the NHL, and are the only thing that has kept us alive this season. Messing with that is not even a secondary issue, let alone primary. I'll agree that Kronwall's defense isn't spectacular. However, I think we can all agree that he's having a bad season. His defensive play isn't usually as bad as it has been at some points over the season, and usually he plays slightly more physical than he has thus far. His 3M contract isn't nearly as bad as some of you make it out to be; there's a reason (same with Flip) Holland signed him for that price. And even though he hasn't met expectations this year, which part of our defense has? Lidstrom has seemed mortal, Rafalski has clearly lost a step, Stuart has had absolutely brutal games, and Lebda has made his typical mistakes. That leaves Lilja and Chelios as the only two players on the back end that have actually impressed me this year. The argument to trade Flip isn't about offense. Obviously, had it not been for our offensive talent we'd be battling it out with Chicago for the central division. Trading Flip is all about gaining cap space, and maybe some players essential to our Cup run in return for a contract that just doesn't make sense from the Red Wing's point of view. Also, I'm going to stir the pot a little. Say Osgood doesn't improve as the deadline nears. Conklin doesn't exactly have great playoff statistics, so what is Holland to do? Should Edmonton fall out of the running for a playoff spot, does Holland give Roloson a closer look? He's performed pretty well thus far this season, and his playoff stats aren't bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
up2here 41 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 1. The Wings could afford Kaberle if Kronwall was going back the other way, even with the 1M difference. 2. Kaberle's agent is assembling a list of about 10 teams that Kaberle wouldn't mind being traded to, and my guess is Detroit is likely one of them. 3. Kronwall has age on Kaberle, and thats it, and even then its only a difference of 3 years. 4. If the Wings added Kaberle, he would be a much better "insurance policy" in case Lidstrom retires than either of Rafalski or Kronwall. The more I think about it, a Kronwall + for Kaberle swap be an absolutely awesome deal, both for the playoffs and for the future. And it makes sense for Toronto in the future as well. They get a younger Dman that cuts some salary which allows them even more money to play for Cammy and JBo. And Burke apparently likes the idea of two brothers on the same team. Detroit would have to add to it though, since Kaberle is locked up at a great contract. Yea I should clarify. The Wings cant afford Kaberle if they want to keep Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 The thing the Wings need most right now is a gritty, energy forward (fighting as a bonus doesn't hurt).. someone who goes out and thuds and bangs and nails d-men on the point every shift. Neil does indeed fit this bill. The problem is, we don't have anybody of equal value to Neil.. that is, any of our 3rd/4th line players who we could trade either aren't worth him, or worth more. I don't think we trade a defenseman.. 3 of the top 4 have an NTC and the other 1 is a steal value-wise. The problem hasn't been the defense itself, but rather, team defense (blame coaching, a lack of grit, or whatever is your preferred strawman). I blame a lack of grit, and thus, I see a young, redundant player (like Flip, unfortunately) being traded for someone like Neil and a mid-round pick or prospects. Not that I think a struggling team wants to ditch their picks or prospects, but an already NHL proven, young player is worth more than a mid-round pick or prospect (plus a veteran grinder they won't be going to the POs with). Such a move would additionally free up more salary in the off-season to maybe squeeze in Hossa, or others.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dallas27 7 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 So long as he trades Flip to make cap room for any combination of Hossa, Franzen and Hudler I could care less who he brings in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swiss_fan 3 Report post Posted February 5, 2009 Also, I'm going to stir the pot a little. Say Osgood doesn't improve as the deadline nears. Conklin doesn't exactly have great playoff statistics, so what is Holland to do? Should Edmonton fall out of the running for a playoff spot, does Holland give Roloson a closer look? He's performed pretty well thus far this season, and his playoff stats aren't bad. If he doesn't improve, will really KH take the risk to go with him/this tandem? I don't think so.. The organisation WANT the cup this year especially because they know we won't have a such good team for a while. Will Roloson be the only option available? What about Rinne? Bryzgalov? Smith? Hedberg and Lehtonen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 If Chris Neil and a gritty leader/and or playing Chelios more, are the only moves made I'll be happy. This team needs to wake up already, the playoffs ended last june. That's all they need to wake up, if they dont, they wont win, it's as simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwings604 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 Chris Capoli from NYI has a rocket of a shot good defensively on a very bad Islanders team salary 625,000 surrounded by talent could be top 4 defenceman Capoli for Lebda 2 or 3rd round pick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grateful Gadsby 10 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 The thing the Wings need most right now is a gritty, energy forward (fighting as a bonus doesn't hurt).. someone who goes out and thuds and bangs and nails d-men on the point every shift. Neil does indeed fit this bill. The problem is, we don't have anybody of equal value to Neil.. that is, any of our 3rd/4th line players who we could trade either aren't worth him, or worth more. I don't think we trade a defenseman.. 3 of the top 4 have an NTC and the other 1 is a steal value-wise. The problem hasn't been the defense itself, but rather, team defense (blame coaching, a lack of grit, or whatever is your preferred strawman). I blame a lack of grit, and thus, I see a young, redundant player (like Flip, unfortunately) being traded for someone like Neil and a mid-round pick or prospects. Not that I think a struggling team wants to ditch their picks or prospects, but an already NHL proven, young player is worth more than a mid-round pick or prospect (plus a veteran grinder they won't be going to the POs with). Such a move would additionally free up more salary in the off-season to maybe squeeze in Hossa, or others.... We have a winner. Two words: Dallas Drake. No, I'm not suggesting that we haul him out of retirement, but the Wings desperately need someone like him. He was huge last year down the stretch and all throughout the playoffs. Not huge as in big numbers on the scoresheet, but huge with regard to the big, timely hits and aggressive forecheck that kept the other teams honest and created the space needed for the Wings' skill players to shine. That element is completely missing so far this season. (Sorry, Kopy doesn't count.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 We're not trading Kronwall or Filppula.. stop thinking about it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 Why are people so keen on trading Kronwall? Because his playoff showing was the exception, not the rule, and because defense has been a bigger problem than offense has. And no, hes not a future Norris winner. As a 28 year old, he has yet to show that he is anything more than a PPQB with a "when I feel like it" physical presence. While his offense has developed nicely over the years, his defense has flat-lined. Its stagnant. Hes making similar defensive mistakes that he made two years ago. The Wings don't need to trade Filppula at the deadline. Our top 3 lines are about as solid as anything in the NHL, and are the only thing that has kept us alive this season. Messing with that is not even a secondary issue, let alone primary. Edit: clarity. I've been agreeing with you quite a bit lately, but I have to disagree here. Clearly Filpulla is on the trade block more than Kronwall. We need to improve defense but a gritty forward with a little scoring touch would be good, too. Clearly we need to get rid of Flip, he's doing nothing for us. Kronner has shown more potential than Flip, and I think it's simply the anti-Kronwall bandwagon. We do have a tendency to pounce on a player. Kronner has had a bad year. But Flip has had a much worse year in my eyes and wouldn't hurt us at all if we dumped him for a roleplayer we need. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted February 6, 2009 Im not giving up on Filppula, He seemed to click well with Hossa. If they can get a good combo going, We have two great scoring lines. Which should lead us to another cup if our Defense can come around Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
