GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 (edited) I'm rather biased, but if I had to choose one it would easily be Cleary. Franzen does have size, good hands, and he is a better goal scorer. I really like Mule and he put on a show in the playoffs last season. However, Cleary beings so much to the Red Wings that might not show up on the scoresheet. Cleary is versatile - he can play on the top line with Pav and Z or even down on the third line in more of a checking role. Dan is a decent scorer, very solid defensively, and great on the penalty kill. The part I love most about Cleary is his relentless work ethic. Nobody outworks him. He goes out and plays his heart out every night. I had no idea a training camp invite would turn into my favorite player, but I couldn't be more thankful Cleary is part of the Red Wings organization. Edited February 10, 2009 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Rule_1010 4 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 I think Franzen has the better pure skills and ability, but I think Danny outworks him night in, night out. QFT. I am biased since Cleary has been my favorite player since he got here, but he works so hards. I like Franzen's scoring touch, but I will take Cleary's hard work over that anyday. Who was on the ice during the final seconds defending the lead when we won the stanley cup? Cleary. He works hard every shift and will sacrifice his body for the win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikiemike24 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 I'm rather biased, but if I had to choose one it would easily be Cleary. Franzen does have size, good hands, and he is a better goal scorer. I really like Mule and he put on a show in the playoffs last season. However, Cleary beings so much to the Red Wings that might not show up on the scoresheet. Cleary is versatile - he can play on the top line with Pav and Z or even down on the third line in more of a checking role. Dan is a decent scorer, very solid defensively, and great on the penalty kill. The part I love most about Cleary is his relentless work ethic. Nobody outworks him. He goes out and plays his heart out every night. I had no idea a training camp invite would turn into my favorite player, but I couldn't be more thankful Cleary is part of the Red Wings organization. Agreed 100%. Cleary is versatile and has more to offer at both ends of the ice. Franzen is also showing that he is injury prone which doesn't exactly fit his "holmstrom" type style in front of the net. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Well, let's establish a few categories and give each player a rating. As there are 12 forwards per team, there would be 360 forward spots. So "First liner" level talent would be rating from 9-10, "Second liner" would be from 7-8, "Third liner" would be from 5-6, "Fourth liner" would be from 3-4, and "Minor leaguer" would be from 1-2. Of course, not every rating is equally important. So let's establish values for each rating. Skating-1, Shooting-2, Playmaking-2, Defense-3, Hitting-1, Work Ethic/Grit-1. This gives a total maximum rating of 100. I'm going to rate more than just Cleary and Franzen, also. Just a note; I rated the individual skills of each player before determining what the overall ranking was, although I did re-order the players after determining what the overall rating was based upon it. Datsyuk Skating: 9 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 10 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Zetterberg Skating: 9 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Hossa Skating: 10 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 86 Hudler Skating: 8 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 7 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 84 Filppula Skating: 9 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 79 Franzen Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Overall: 78 Cleary Skating: 9 Shooting: 7 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 77 Samuelsson Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 76 Holmstrom Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 72 Kopecky Skating: 7 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 7 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Draper Skating: 9 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Leino Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 68 Maltby Skating: 8 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 5 Defense: 8 Hitting: 7 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 67 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Eva's arbitrary, baseless points system PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Franzen is better. But only just. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Eva's arbitrary, baseless points system PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Franzen is better. But only just. I'm glad you have FINALLY come around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 So how exactly did you determine that Dan has more heart and is working harder that Johan? Let me guess - he's Canadian, right? Blocked shots for one. Playing thru pain for another. Having said that this is a ridiculous question since we are comparing apples to oranges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Sammie and, to lesser extent Homer and Franzen, can go thru stretches where it appear they are taking a "Swedish Siesta". I would say the Cleary doesn't have the game-breaking skill that Franzen has but understands that his bread is buttered by how hard he works. I would like this thread better if it was a discussion of Cleary and Homer and how they match and whether Cleary can be the heir apparent, and the merits of well he is doing filling in for Homer - etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Eva's arbitrary, baseless points system PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Franzen is better. But only just. No kidding what a house of cards... I'm working on a points system that absolutely proves I'm the king of the universe. Please stand by! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzersyukstromberg 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Well, let's establish a few categories and give each player a rating. As there are 12 forwards per team, there would be 360 forward spots. So "First liner" level talent would be rating from 9-10, "Second liner" would be from 7-8, "Third liner" would be from 5-6, "Fourth liner" would be from 3-4, and "Minor leaguer" would be from 1-2. Of course, not every rating is equally important. So let's establish values for each rating. Skating-1, Shooting-2, Playmaking-2, Defense-3, Hitting-1, Work Ethic/Grit-1. This gives a total maximum rating of 100. I'm going to rate more than just Cleary and Franzen, also. Just a note; I rated the individual skills of each player before determining what the overall ranking was, although I did re-order the players after determining what the overall rating was based upon it. Datsyuk Skating: 9 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 10 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Zetterberg Skating: 9 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Hossa Skating: 10 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 86 Hudler Skating: 8 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 7 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 84 Filppula Skating: 9 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 79 Franzen Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Overall: 78 Cleary Skating: 9 Shooting: 7 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 77 Samuelsson Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 76 Holmstrom Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 72 Kopecky Skating: 7 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 7 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Draper Skating: 9 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Leino Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 68 Maltby Skating: 8 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 5 Defense: 8 Hitting: 7 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 67 Wow, how much time did you waste putting that together?? And since when is Pavel Datsyuk's work ethic only an 8?? I'd have to choose Cleary over the Mule, not based on any type of point system, but based on the fact that Dapper Danny is a hard working player, who, despite what might seem like a lack of skill, still puts up solid numbers year in and year out. I love the Mule, but he does seem a bit fragile, and occasionally a bit (for lack of a better term) lazy. I'd be glad to have both of them on the Wings any day, but when it comes down to it, Dapper Dan is a better value for the buck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Saran 1 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 datsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clutchngrab 12 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Wow, how much time did you waste putting that together?? And since when is Pavel Datsyuk's work ethic only an 8?? I'd have to choose Cleary over the Mule, not based on any type of point system, but based on the fact that Dapper Danny is a hard working player, who, despite what might seem like a lack of skill, still puts up solid numbers year in and year out. I love the Mule, but he does seem a bit fragile, and occasionally a bit (for lack of a better term) lazy. I'd be glad to have both of them on the Wings any day, but when it comes down to it, Dapper Dan is a better value for the buck. Please do not take the bait of this post. Let this be a warning to all ye who enter here: Thar be dragons in this subjective, off the cuff malarky... rating such attributes as "grit" and "heart" without any objective measure... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Well, let's establish a few categories and give each player a rating. As there are 12 forwards per team, there would be 360 forward spots. So "First liner" level talent would be rating from 9-10, "Second liner" would be from 7-8, "Third liner" would be from 5-6, "Fourth liner" would be from 3-4, and "Minor leaguer" would be from 1-2. Of course, not every rating is equally important. So let's establish values for each rating. Skating-1, Shooting-2, Playmaking-2, Defense-3, Hitting-1, Work Ethic/Grit-1. This gives a total maximum rating of 100. I'm going to rate more than just Cleary and Franzen, also. Just a note; I rated the individual skills of each player before determining what the overall ranking was, although I did re-order the players after determining what the overall rating was based upon it. Datsyuk Skating: 9 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 10 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Zetterberg Skating: 9 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 10 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 91 Hossa Skating: 10 Shooting: 10 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 86 Hudler Skating: 8 Shooting: 9 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 7 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 84 Filppula Skating: 9 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 9 Defense: 9 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 79 Franzen Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Overall: 78 Cleary Skating: 9 Shooting: 7 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 9 Hitting: 6 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 77 Samuelsson Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 8 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 76 Holmstrom Skating: 7 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 9 Total: 72 Kopecky Skating: 7 Shooting: 6 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 7 Hitting: 8 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Draper Skating: 9 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 6 Defense: 8 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 68 Leino Skating: 8 Shooting: 8 Playmaking: 7 Defense: 6 Hitting: 5 Work Ethic/Grit: 7 Total: 68 Maltby Skating: 8 Shooting: 5 Playmaking: 5 Defense: 8 Hitting: 7 Work Ethic/Grit: 8 Total: 67 oh my god dude you need a hobby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 No, he's a Newfoundlander.......even tougher, with more heart than a regular Canadian. Hell yeah!!!! I hope to see that cup come through St. John's airport again this summer!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ComradeWasabi 109 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 eva I didn't know you were doing the EA NHL '10 stats. Those look about as arbitrary as their assessments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 eva I didn't know you were doing the EA NHL '10 stats. Those look about as arbitrary as their assessments. No kidding, his bias towards Hudler is obvious in those ridiculous assessments. Hudler a "5" for hitting and Pavel a "6?" You've got to be kidding me, Pavs was the leading hitter on this team in the playoffs last year, and I don't recall Hudler ever giving a check, I like Huds and all but if he tried to throw the body on most people in this league he'd hit their waist and fall over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzersyukstromberg 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 Please do not take the bait of this post. Let this be a warning to all ye who enter here: Thar be dragons in this subjective, off the cuff malarky... rating such attributes as "grit" and "heart" without any objective measure... Agreed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted February 10, 2009 hahahahah that post is so ridiculous... i must've linked it to at least 10 of my buddies Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hossa8109 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 I'm going to have to take Cleary on this one. Cleary is solid in every area on the ice and gets the job done every game. He can also play with any line combination and produce (something I don't think Franzen is capable of). Playing with Z and Dats he has 5 points in the last 4 games and their line has something like 21 combined points. I like the Mule but I think Cleary is essential for the Wings success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 11, 2009 No kidding, his bias towards Hudler is obvious in those ridiculous assessments. Hudler a "5" for hitting and Pavel a "6?" You've got to be kidding me, Pavs was the leading hitter on this team in the playoffs last year, and I don't recall Hudler ever giving a check, I like Huds and all but if he tried to throw the body on most people in this league he'd hit their waist and fall over. Hudler's "5" ranks him as a capable hitter. If I were to rank Datsyuk as a "7" or above I would be ranking him as a full-on power forward, which is inaccurate. He's an offensively very skilled player who is also very good defensively, who is better than Hudler physically. And as such, that is how I rated him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
