2/13 GDT: Red Wings 2 at Blue Jackets 3

[gcom007 1,465]

so are we talking about past acomplishments or the play of the two goaltenders this season?

i would never take anything away from what ozzy has done in the past but that's what it is now, the past. If everyone wants to keep being loyal and saying that nothing is wrong with ozzy's play, I assume you will all be fine with a first round playoff exit? Anyone who doesn't praise ozzy's mediocre(to at times, atrocious) play gets labeled as a "hater" instantly it seems which is quite funny, yet it is okay to constantly bash players like sammy, lils the second he makes a mistake and anyone else with the snap of a finger, yet they have all had more of a positive contribution to this team THIS year. But hey, if we get knocked out early, we can always watch videos of Ozzy's '98 and '08 runs and that will make everything better.

First, when you've got a guy like Conk's, a solid career backup with 5 minutes of playoff experience and a guy like Osgood who won a Cup last year in an outstanding manner at that, I think it's still fair to refer to past accomplishments. We're less than a year removed from a guy who shutout the Penguins plus Hossa 2 games in a row to open up the Stanley Cup Finals. Osgood beat the Penguins and won the Cup while Conklin watched from the Penguins bench 8 months ago. Osgood could've easily won the Conn Smythe and no one would've been surprised. And it wasn't a fluke. He played great period all year. He has the ability.

You're really going to try to tell me that you don't want to even give him a chance to step up for the playoffs because you'd rather go with a goalie with 5 minutes of playoff experience who put up descent regular season numbers?

Really?

Like, for realsies really?

Then for getting knocked out early, sure, fine, whatever...it happens. I doubt it will be because of Osgood but I all but know it sure as hell won't be in spite of any great play from Conklin. The guy's got 2 shutouts that the defense handed to him in '09 and his numbers are still just a bit better than Osgood's '09 numbers.

And again, 5 career playoff minutes.

And I've criticized Osgood plenty this season and I've said in this thread he needs to keep improving. Absolutely. Without a doubt. He can play much better. He has plenty of potential and age isn't much of a factor in his style and he's not even that old yet. He needs to turn it up to 11. But I think he will and he absolutely has earned the right to prove that he can.

Did I mention that Conklin has 5 career playoff minutes?

Osgood has 2 Cups to his name.

He won the Cup 8 months ago.

Conklin watched from the bench.

Seriously?!?

I'm embarrassed that this is even necessary to discuss. Again, I'm not saying Osgood's played great or even that you have to like him. But it's nothing short of IDIOTIC to suggest that Conklin will or should be used as anything more than a last resort if Osgood can't make it happen when it truly matters.

Until then, Osgood is the starting goalie for the Detroit Red Wings. He deserves and needs our support.

Get behind him.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Ok, then answer to my point about Osgood's performance this season. I am saying negative about Osgood, but not all him. I never mentioned we lost tonight's game all because of Osgood.

Osgood's performance in the first half was all Osgood. No denying that.

He has had troubles keeping his game up because he hasn't been confident in his defensemen once this season. The first and second goals were clear examples of that. His play has looked solid at times but, like I said before, he is not getting the same support and I think that is a factor on how he feels out there.

The third goal was Osgood's fault. But he had to cover for the piss poor effort of the Wings all game.

[gcom007 1,465]

I think Ozzie was good but let me say something: I am sick of hearing it is not Osgood's fault. Goalies should be responsible for all goals they allow every game. If goalies do not make big saves, why are there goalies in the net?

We did not play bad defensively and offensively. Some turnovers occur and our pp was bad but you cannot blame that everyday because we have played well lately.

Mason stole the game, but Ozzie did not. Has Osgood stolen any game? I meant, throughtly whole game. Like the 3rd goal, what is that I mean? That was not even a good shot but that happens pretty much a lot of days on Osgood.

People here jeer about Turco because he was in slump. How is his recent record? He has been IMPRVOED and makes big saves and boost up the Stars. Osgood has never done that this season.

If you guys think Osgood will get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games, that is deadly wrong thinking. How can we expect one of the worst goalie in the league will be terrific during the playoff?

So if we're going to go by this logic, (though in general we don't if you look at any GDT where Conklin's starting) Conklin isn't exactly looking like the hottest goalie either. Again, just look at the numbers...they don't lie, and despite the shutouts (which tend to be the result of OUTSTANDING team games and/or play against league-worst teams), the rest of the games aren't near as pretty as it seems.

So again, explain to me why it's a better idea to go with a guy who has 5 minutes of playoff experience over Osgood with 2 Cups?

[Xitium 272]

i agree, the problem is that we haven't seen anything close to a confident, on-top-of-his-game osgood this year, and we're 56 games in. osgood needs to get his head back in the game somehow, clearly it's not something he's going to play through. i think he needs to sit for a couple of breaks, get some air, and come back focused.

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlg=20082009,2,201

[Outsider 42]

People here jeer about Turco because he was in slump. How is his recent record? He has been IMPRVOED and makes big saves and boost up the Stars. Osgood has never done that this season.

EXCELLENT Point.

Now, pay attention, 'cause here's were it gets tricky....

Turco has played FIFTY GAMES. His BACK UP has played SEVEN GAMES.

Even when Turco was SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING GAMES for the Stars earlier this Season, he played. He played, and played, and played.

And after that? He played again! And again, and again, and again.

He played every f*(king game. And why?

Because his Coach KNOWS that that is the ONLY way to get a struggling goalie going.

You have to PLAY THEM. You have to ALLOW them to get better. And the only way to do that, is to PLAY THEM.

If you guys think Osgood will get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games, that is deadly wrong thinking. How can we expect one of the worst goalie in the league will be terrific during the playoff?

Once again....pay attention....there's gonna be a test.....

NO ONE expects Osgood to "get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games". NO ONE.

That's because the majority of fans understand that the ONLY way for a goalie, ANY GOALIE, to "get hot" in the Play Offs is to GET THEM GOING, NOW, BEFORE the Play Offs begin!

And that is sure as HellFire not gonna happen if he's only playing FIFTY PERCENT of the Games down the stretch.

The reason that Turco has shaken off his early season s***tiness is because he's PLAYED THROUGH IT.

You have to play Osgood now, before the Post Season begins, in order to GET him hot. You keep posting the same thing, around and around in circles, contradicting yourself.

What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

So again, explain to me why it's a better idea to go with a guy who has 5 minutes of playoff experience over Osgood with 2 Cups?

Because we just lost a regular season game and the sky is falling?

[Electrophile 3,554]

Because we just lost a regular season game and the sky is falling?

"OH NOEZ, HERE IT COMES!!11!!11"

[sibiriak 84]

I was at the game tonight, and I believe that Zetterberg is playing through considerable pain. He looked stiff, missed passes because he seemed to overcompensate, had trouble getting up after falling to the ice. In short, his back must be really bothering him. It may be a good idea to rest him for a couple of weeks, it's not like we really need points or there's nobody to replace him temporarily. Or maybe even do medical intervention, if he can be back for the play-offs.

[MIN8TV 0]

Mason was outstanding and our defense left Ozzy hanging. I don't know what else Ozzy could have done.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Meh - 4 back to backs this month - we weren't going to win all 8 games. The BJs put forth their best effort trying to stay in the PO race. The Wings didn't match the intensity - we didn't deserve to win. As long as we smoke the Avs, a reeling team, on Sunday, I'll call it even. I'm just pissed some wayward eastern team doesn't take care of business and beat the Sharks in regulation for once.

[Yzermania 156]

First, when you've got a guy like Conk's, a solid career backup with 5 minutes of playoff experience and a guy like Osgood who won a Cup last year in an outstanding manner at that, I think it's still fair to refer to past accomplishments. We're less than a year removed from a guy who shutout the Penguins plus Hossa 2 games in a row to open up the Stanley Cup Finals. Osgood beat the Penguins and won the Cup while Conklin watched from the Penguins bench 8 months ago. Osgood could've easily won the Conn Smythe and no one would've been surprised. And it wasn't a fluke. He played great period all year. He has the ability.

You're really going to try to tell me that you don't want to even give him a chance to step up for the playoffs because you'd rather go with a goalie with 5 minutes of playoff experience who put up descent regular season numbers?

Really?

Like, for realsies really?

Then for getting knocked out early, sure, fine, whatever...it happens. I doubt it will be because of Osgood but I all but know it sure as hell won't be in spite of any great play from Conklin. The guy's got 2 shutouts that the defense handed to him in '09 and his numbers are still just a bit better than Osgood's '09 numbers.

And again, 5 career playoff minutes.

And I've criticized Osgood plenty this season and I've said in this thread he needs to keep improving. Absolutely. Without a doubt. He can play much better. He has plenty of potential and age isn't much of a factor in his style and he's not even that old yet. He needs to turn it up to 11. But I think he will and he absolutely has earned the right to prove that he can.

Did I mention that Conklin has 5 career playoff minutes?

Osgood has 2 Cups to his name.

He won the Cup 8 months ago.

Conklin watched from the bench.

Seriously?!?

I'm embarrassed that this is even necessary to discuss. Again, I'm not saying Osgood's played great or even that you have to like him. But it's nothing short of IDIOTIC to suggest that Conklin will or should be used as anything more than a last resort if Osgood can't make it happen when it truly matters.

Until then, Osgood is the starting goalie for the Detroit Red Wings. He deserves and needs our support.

Get behind him.

I'm not saying he shouldn't start the playoffs, I'm just saying people don't seem to want to realize that he has pretty much sucked this season for being our go-to-guy. Everyone finds a way around it, "oh it was the defense, it was the schedule, blah blah blah". When a team/player beats our D or our D makes a stupid mistake, that's when the whole having a goalie in the net thing comes in to play, he's there to stop pucks and plays that get past the D and quite frankly he hasn't been doing a great job of it. My point in reference to the playoffs was simply saying that the way everyone stands behind him when he plays like s*** makes it seem as though they will continue to be fine with that kind of play in the second season and not see his faults even then, it's simply blind loyalty.

[egroen 384]

Sucks being in the West this year -- more often than not, the team you're facing is right on the cusp of making the playoffs and playing like there is no tomorrow. Columbus played their freakin' hearts out tonight. Combine that with the fact that every team is always going to get up and play the Stanley Cup Champs each time and I think the Wings see every team at their best on an almost nightly basis -- I have to remind myself of this often. So far, I have not seen a single team that I think can beat the Wings in a 7 game series, and that includes San Jose and Boston.

[Yak19 303]

Its tough playing back to back the other team knows if they play hard it will make it difficult for us but we still out chanced the Blue Jackets tonight as tired as we were, they are a fluffer team but that Mason is something else and he won that game.

Ozzie was good but nothing compared to Mason in this one, we did put forth somewhat of an offensive surge in those last few minutes there so not bad for a back-to-back showing even though it wasn't anything close to what we are capable of and still if not for Mason we win this one. Helm played awesome tonight, really impressive.

We bounce back Sunday,

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[VM1138 1,921]

EXCELLENT Point.

Now, pay attention, 'cause here's were it gets tricky....

Turco has played FIFTY GAMES. His BACK UP has played SEVEN GAMES.

Even when Turco was SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING GAMES for the Stars earlier this Season, he played. He played, and played, and played.

And after that? He played again! And again, and again, and again.

He played every f*(king game. And why?

Because his Coach KNOWS that that is the ONLY way to get a struggling goalie going.

You have to PLAY THEM. You have to ALLOW them to get better. And the only way to do that, is to PLAY THEM.

Um...do you really think that works? It's not working for Turco, it's not working for Ozzie, it didnt' work for Hasek...see a pattern? You need to let them rest, get their s*** together, and come back.

But look, there's no sense debating this. Ozzie will start the playoffs. It'll be just like last year. We're hoping the whole team will suddenly turn on a switch come playoff time and that applies to Ozzie, too.

Think of last year. If Ozzie drops the first game or two due to bad play, we go to Conklin. We're not trading for a goalie so I don't know why we're still discussing this.

Conks has been solid for us when Ozzie wasn't. All these arguments are CARBON COPIES of last season. So people need to relax and know that we're going to be fine goaltending wise. It's defense that concerns me.

[Yak19 303]

I see both sides point of view, i see why people want Ozzie in because he has the resume and i see why people would prefer Conklin because he is the better goaltender right now but im going to back whatever the decision is by Babs and the Red Wings organization because they do there job and they do it well.

once again,

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Outsider 42]

Um...do you really think that works? It's not working for Turco, it's not working for Ozzie, it didnt' work for Hasek...see a pattern? You need to let them rest, get their s*** together, and come back.

But look, there's no sense debating this. Ozzie will start the playoffs. It'll be just like last year. We're hoping the whole team will suddenly turn on a switch come playoff time and that applies to Ozzie, too.

Think of last year. If Ozzie drops the first game or two due to bad play, we go to Conklin. We're not trading for a goalie so I don't know why we're still discussing this.

Conks has been solid for us when Ozzie wasn't. All these arguments are CARBON COPIES of last season. So people need to relax and know that we're going to be fine goaltending wise. It's defense that concerns me.

Again....

WHICH PART IS NOT CLEAR?

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo-stick.....y'all are a frustrating bunch.

It HAS worked for Turco. I repeat....

It HAS worked for Turco! He's turned the corner, and has been playing excellent hockey lately. Have you not been paying attention?

He's back on track, because he's been given EVERY GAME. Because he's PLAYED. He's played EVERY DAMNED GAME, Win or Lose. He's got FIFTY GAMES under his belt, whereas his back up has SEVEN.

The reason that "it's not working for Ozzie" is because it HASN'T BEEN TRIED! Osgood has 29 games under his belt, whereas his back up has 28.

See the difference? It's really not that difficult to understand if you apply simple math.

Turco has played 93% of the games thus far this season.

Osgood has played 51% of the games thus far this season.

Osgood has only played FIFTY ONE PERCENT of the Games. What part of that don't you understand? He just came off a stint where he SAT for 8 days in between starts. If you want him to get better, he has to play, for the love of God. And not just every other game.

As for Dom:

He was coming off of multiple injuries, at 43 years of age, and with a goaltending style which demands alot from a young, supple, flexible 25 year old body. The majority of Hasek's struggles last Season cannot be attributed to skill/focus/confidence. They were mostly due to things well beyond Dominik's control.

You can't ***** about your wife being a terrible cook, demand that she learn how to cook, forbid her to cook because her cooking's terrible, and then ***** because her cooking hasn't gotten any better.

Jeez....

You wanna make an omelette? You've gotta break a few eggs.

The Stars have broken their fair share of eggs this Season. It's starting to pay off, though, because their cooking is getting better and better as the play offs approach.

And isn't THAT the whole point?

Edited February 14, 2009 by Outsider

[gcom007 1,465]

EXCELLENT Point.

Now, pay attention, 'cause here's were it gets tricky....

Turco has played FIFTY GAMES. His BACK UP has played SEVEN GAMES.

Even when Turco was SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING GAMES for the Stars earlier this Season, he played. He played, and played, and played.

And after that? He played again! And again, and again, and again.

He played every f*(king game. And why?

Because his Coach KNOWS that that is the ONLY way to get a struggling goalie going.

You have to PLAY THEM. You have to ALLOW them to get better. And the only way to do that, is to PLAY THEM.

Once again....pay attention....there's gonna be a test.....

NO ONE expects Osgood to "get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games". NO ONE.

That's because the majority of fans understand that the ONLY way for a goalie, ANY GOALIE, to "get hot" in the Play Offs is to GET THEM GOING, NOW, BEFORE the Play Offs begin!

And that is sure as HellFire not gonna happen if he's only playing FIFTY PERCENT of the Games down the stretch.

The reason that Turco has shaken off his early season s***tiness is because he's PLAYED THROUGH IT.

You have to play Osgood now, before the Post Season begins, in order to GET him hot. You keep posting the same thing, around and around in circles, contradicting yourself.

What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?

Yep. This is the one thing I've been a little "eh" about in regards to Bowman/Babcock. They're big into calling guys out and putting the pressure on that way and at times you need it, but I think especially with a goalie, sometimes you've got to just keep them in there and let them work their game out.

[Wingsallwin 0]

EXCELLENT Point.

Now, pay attention, 'cause here's were it gets tricky....

Turco has played FIFTY GAMES. His BACK UP has played SEVEN GAMES.

Even when Turco was SINGLE-HANDEDLY LOSING GAMES for the Stars earlier this Season, he played. He played, and played, and played.

And after that? He played again! And again, and again, and again.

He played every f*(king game. And why?

Because his Coach KNOWS that that is the ONLY way to get a struggling goalie going.

You have to PLAY THEM. You have to ALLOW them to get better. And the only way to do that, is to PLAY THEM.

Once again....pay attention....there's gonna be a test.....

NO ONE expects Osgood to "get hot immediately in the playoff because of experience and number of games". NO ONE.

That's because the majority of fans understand that the ONLY way for a goalie, ANY GOALIE, to "get hot" in the Play Offs is to GET THEM GOING, NOW, BEFORE the Play Offs begin!

And that is sure as HellFire not gonna happen if he's only playing FIFTY PERCENT of the Games down the stretch.

The reason that Turco has shaken off his early season s***tiness is because he's PLAYED THROUGH IT.

You have to play Osgood now, before the Post Season begins, in order to GET him hot. You keep posting the same thing, around and around in circles, contradicting yourself.

What part of this is so difficult for you to understand?

Osgood started 29 games so it will not be many games but Osgood had enough games to show his improvement. Like I mean, the number of games for goalie when they need to improve is important but you cannot say this in this time right now.

We are into 56games of the season and according to your statement, Conklin is not really good either if we consider deeply about the playoff. What I am pointing out here is not just choosing which goalie the starter of the Wings.

If both goalies do not improve, we have to think about the changes. Believe you saw some Red Wings press conferences and tv. Babcock seems like he is losing a credit and criticized Osgood's performance this season. If Babcock really wants to make Osgood furious himself to motivate him, I don't mind we send down Osgood and replace Osgood's role by one of our young goalies for a short period.

[egroen 384]

At least with Osgood we KNOW he is capable of stepping up his game in the playoffs and doing what it takes. You have to start him... but definitely be willing to give Conklin the reigns if things go south.

[gcom007 1,465]

I'm not saying he shouldn't start the playoffs, I'm just saying people don't seem to want to realize that he has pretty much sucked this season for being our go-to-guy. Everyone finds a way around it, "oh it was the defense, it was the schedule, blah blah blah". When a team/player beats our D or our D makes a stupid mistake, that's when the whole having a goalie in the net thing comes in to play, he's there to stop pucks and plays that get past the D and quite frankly he hasn't been doing a great job of it. My point in reference to the playoffs was simply saying that the way everyone stands behind him when he plays like s*** makes it seem as though they will continue to be fine with that kind of play in the second season and not see his faults even then, it's simply blind loyalty.

I don't see this at all. I think everyone, even the hardcore Osgood lovers who want to marry him and all think he's had a rough season and needs to play better. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.

I think truthfully you have two groups of people generally speaking...

One group consists of either Osgood haters/starter haters. It's always the starting goalies fault with these guys and the backup is always better. This mentality really shined in the Manny Legace era.

The other group consists of Osgood lovers/objective hockey fans. These guys call it how it is no matter who is in net. They have recognized that there have been a tremendous amount of defensive issues this season with the team and they attribute many GA more to the D this season than the goalie. That is, when it's relevant. Unfortunately, with the vast amount of turnovers, odd man rushes and breakaways we're giving up this year, it's tremendously relevant. While these people recognize that Osgood isn't playing as well and needs to play better, they also see that neither goalie is getting much help from the D and with Osgood underachieving somewhat, it's making him look at times worse than he is and it's making it hard for him to get going. But these people realize that at the end of the day, Osgood's the capable guy and you've got to get him going.

That doesn't mean that we think what he's doing now is fine. It's not. I've said all along that he needs to play better. But saying he's improving doesn't mean he's there or I'm satisfied. This isn't black and white. There's a lot of other colors and plenty of gray.

More than anything, I just want to reiterate that, everyone needs to chill and let this stuff play out. We're better off supporting whoever is starting than tearing at anyone. It doesn't help the fan perception does add to the pressure believe it or not. I would rather be a fan supporting our guys than the fan ready to slit their throats. People just need to chill...............

[Outsider 42]

If Babcock really wants to make Osgood furious himself to motivate him, I don't mind we send down Osgood and replace Osgood's role by one of our young goalies for a short period.

Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. You can't just send players down, and bring others up, "just 'cuz."

In order to send Osgood down and bring up one of the young goalies, Osgood would have to pass through waivers.

Do you honestly think he'd make it down to Grand Rapids?

A two time Cup Winner, making a paltry $1.4M, would be snatched off the waiver wire before you could say "Oops! Bad decision!".

Then you'd have no choice but to go with Conklin and one of the kids, and hope that Conklin's 6 minutes worth of Play Off experience will be enough to get the Wings through the Post Season.

Give your head a shake.....

[Ms_Hockey 0]

"OH NOEZ, HERE IT COMES!!11!!11"

LMAO. That is, by far, the best post in this thread.

As for the game tonight - defense was horrible. The puck wasn't liking the offense that much. Blue Jackets were doing an amazing job of clogging up the middle - gotta give them credit.

And Osgood was solid. Compared to his performance eight/nine days ago before he took his break - I'll take this Osgood over that one in a heartbeat. He made key saves - SOME EVEN ON BREAK-AWAYS!! (I know. Breathe deep. Hold onto something, if you must. Calm yourself.)

He's not 100% yet - but he's certainly improved A LOT. Instead of pointing out that he hasn't made it to where he was last season, why don't we start pointing out how much he's improved in the last eight/nine days?

[Doc Holiday 0]

I don't see this at all. I think everyone, even the hardcore Osgood lovers who want to marry him and all think he's had a rough season and needs to play better. I don't think anyone has suggested otherwise.

I think truthfully you have two groups of people generally speaking...

One group consists of either Osgood haters/starter haters. It's always the starting goalies fault with these guys and the backup is always better. This mentality really shined in the Manny Legace era.

The other group consists of Osgood lovers/objective hockey fans. These guys call it how it is no matter who is in net. They have recognized that there have been a tremendous amount of defensive issues this season with the team and they attribute many GA more to the D this season than the goalie. That is, when it's relevant. Unfortunately, with the vast amount of turnovers, odd man rushes and breakaways we're giving up this year, it's tremendously relevant. While these people recognize that Osgood isn't playing as well and needs to play better, they also see that neither goalie is getting much help from the D and with Osgood underachieving somewhat, it's making him look at times worse than he is and it's making it hard for him to get going. But these people realize that at the end of the day, Osgood's the capable guy and you've got to get him going.

That doesn't mean that we think what he's doing now is fine. It's not. I've said all along that he needs to play better. But saying he's improving doesn't mean he's there or I'm satisfied. This isn't black and white. There's a lot of other colors and plenty of gray.

More than anything, I just want to reiterate that, everyone needs to chill and let this stuff play out. We're better off supporting whoever is starting than tearing at anyone. It doesn't help the fan perception does add to the pressure believe it or not. I would rather be a fan supporting our guys than the fan ready to slit their throats. People just need to chill...............

I wouldn't group "Osgood lovers" with "Objective hockey fans".

I am an Osgood lover and at times I've been a little less than objective. It happens with fans of a specific player. They can't always be objective about it.

Edited February 14, 2009 by Doc Holiday

[RedArmy 4]

Ozzie consistently gives up 3 goals, the night he didn't wings won... the night wings can't score more than 2 they screwed with ozzie in the net.

it is what it is...

[chrisdetroit 189]

It's all mental. Ozzie showed 8 months ago that he is capable of playing at an elite level when the cup is on the line. Nothing has changed in 8 months. He didn't suddenly get slower or forget how to play.

He just needs to get back to where he was. Unfortunately it is taking longer than we all expected and everybody is getting nervous.

There is no fix for this. He just has to get his act together. We are not going to trade for a goalie and baring injury, Conks is not going to start. And no, we aren't going to bring up Larson or Howard.

It's up to Ozzie. He has to do it and he is capable.