Clutterbuck's Hit

[Guest micah]

All I have to say is that he continues to take runs at guys and leave his feet (which he did a few times against the Wings), he better drop the gloves when the time comes.

Agreed - and he does, though not enough. He does have more fighting majors this year that every Wing combined that played in the game we're talking about though:)

[Frozen-Man 144]

Lebda needs to learn how to get his stick up on charging hits like that. If he ran Chelios like that, Clutterbucket wouldn't have any front teeth right now.

That's the truth!

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I'm posting here because I'm a rabid Red Wings fan, have been since the early 1980s:)

You seem to be having a hard time with this, I'll help you out.

I compared Clutterbuck's feistiness and tendancy to retaliate for clean hits to Howe's, nothing else. Please tell me exactly why you think that is so bad. No doubt Howe was a very skilled player, one of the most skilled ever - does that excuuse him for breaking the rules and cheapshotting players? Are cheapshots somehow less moral today than they were in 1965? Please explain, as I really don't get it.

can you read the definition of a charge and tell me that was a clean hit? yeah yeah you keep saying howe and again for the 100 time this is a different nhl. and like was said to you before...if you can;t tell the difference then there is not much hope in talking with you.

[Konnan511 1,736]

It was cheap but it wasn't dirty. Lebda put himself in an awkward position by bending down, if he would have stayed standing he would have been alright.

I would have called a charge, but nothing more. When you embarrass someone and put them on their back, naturally they are going to try and get even. Lebda should have known that he had a target on his back for that. Hope he gets well quickly and is back on the ice.

[SDavis35 140]

i understand what you are saying but i think the problem was he came from center ice skating full speed with only one thing in mind and that was to hit lebda. didn't even try to go for the puck. at least lebs hit on him was a hip check and he just touched the puck. am i wrong but i thought that

"Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A "Charge" may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.

When a major penalty is imposed under this Rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed, and an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100).

A minor, major or a major and a game misconduct shall be imposed on a player who charges a goalkeeper while the goalkeeper is within his goal crease. "

Definition says it was a charge. Lebda's hit, as I saw it, was not interference. (He hit the guy who had the puck. I may need a video to prove this, but can't find it)

Either way, the call was not made, can't do anything about it. If Lebda had stayed standing though, I don't think he would be injured right now.

[Guest micah]

can you read the definition of a charge and tell me that was a clean hit? yeah yeah you keep saying howe and again for the 100 time this is a different nhl. and like was said to you before...if you can;t tell the difference then there is not much hope in talking with you.

I never made the claim that it was a clean hit, silly. I said it was a retaliation for a clean (-ish) hit - the same sort of think that Gordie Howe is famous for. It is not a different NHL. Howe's buttends and elbows were no more legal in his day than they are now. Is it your argument that 35 years ago it was morally acceptable to break the rules and risk injurring opponents with cheapshots, but today it isn't? Please explain that stance further, I really don't get it. It sounds a lot like revisionist moral relativism to me.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

I never made the claim that it was a clean hit, silly. I said it was a retaliation for a clean (-ish) hit - the same sort of think that Gordie Howe is famous for. It is not a different NHL. Howe's buttends and elbows were no more legal in his day than they are now. Is it your argument that 35 years ago it was morally acceptable to break the rules and risk injurring opponents with cheapshots, but today it isn't? Please explain that stance further, I really don't get it. It sounds a lot like revisionist moral relativism to me.

i understand its not more legal.....and it was accepted more so then..why do you think he got away with it more.....i never said anywhere that i didn't like the rough play...all i said that it should have been called. period. with the way that calls are these days...that was an easy one to call.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Lebda should have gotten 2 for interference earlier, and Clutterbuck should have gotten 2 for a charge. I guess it's a wash... but I just wish a Wing player would have stood up to Clutterbuck to show that you can't do that to this team. "The PP is our enforcer" doesn't hold water when the game isn't close and I'm worried that someone is going to get run hardcore late in a game when the outcome is not in doubt.

Moron How else was Lebda supposed to play him

Definition says it was a charge. Lebda's hit, as I saw it, was not interference. (He hit the guy who had the puck. I may need a video to prove this, but can't find it)

Either way, the call was not made, can't do anything about it. If Lebda had stayed standing though, I don't think he would be injured right now.

That is not accurate If Clutterbuck had tried to play the puck Lebda would be playing tonight

Here is the Hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpOXcQo7F8 Lebda hit him in transition.......Clutter tried to play the puck around him and got caught

Edited February 13, 2009 by Hockeytown_Ryan

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

That is not accurate If Clutterbuck had tried to play the puck Lebda would be playing tonight

Here is the Hit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpOXcQo7F8 Lebda hit him in transition.......Clutter tried to play the puck around him and got caught

i think he was saying that it was a clean hit that lebs put on him.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

i think he was saying that it was a clean hit that lebs put on him.

He was saying that Lebda should of stood up and he would of been alright... I doubt it.

He came in way to fast for that not to hurt.....

If Clutterbuck would of changed direction a bit to snub Lebs out of the play then he would of made his point and the hit would of been cleaner than it was ...... All im saying is there was no intent on playing the puck...even after the hit... he skated backward and admired it while the play continued......

That was a dirty hit and should of been a penalty.

[redwingrob 0]

I never made the claim that it was a clean hit, silly. I said it was a retaliation for a clean (-ish) hit - the same sort of think that Gordie Howe is famous for. It is not a different NHL. Howe's buttends and elbows were no more legal in his day than they are now. Is it your argument that 35 years ago it was morally acceptable to break the rules and risk injurring opponents with cheapshots, but today it isn't? Please explain that stance further, I really don't get it. It sounds a lot like revisionist moral relativism to me.

Clutterbuc and Howe have only one thing in common; A desire to retaliate against the guy who emabarrased them. Having said that I think the big difference is in todays NHL the respect level for other players is in the toliet. While a buttend and many of the plays Howe is famous for were illegal, just like hooking was during the 90's it doesnt mean it was called then. Does that make it morally better 'no'. To me the big difference is while Howe truly hated his opponents I think he also had a level fo respect for them. Boarding, Hits from behind, baseball swings and the kind of head shots we are seeing today are all potential serious injury/career-enders. Howe did all his serious retribution skate to skate with his gloves on the ice. His cheapshots were many, but meant to embarras and sting, if Howe was really mad he fought you.

As wass earlier pointed out, Clutterbuc is gettng a reputation for dirty hitting. Leaving your feet repeatedly (and not from driving through your check) is weak.

I dont care that they didnt call it. I think it should have been called, but whatever. My concern is what someone else pointed out, if Lebda turns into the boards we are talking potential serious injury. I think clutterbuc should be suspended for charging/intent to injure, and frankly I would like to see them start suspending players (not Lebda in this case) for putting themselves in such dumbass positions. Lebda thankfully saw him in time to try to get out of the way (failed). But it is charges like this mixed with guys not protecting themsleves that is making this such a dangerous league, when frankly the players are all way softer then almost anyone pre-Gretsky.

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Lebda should have gotten 2 for interference earlier, and Clutterbuck should have gotten 2 for a charge. I guess it's a wash... but I just wish a Wing player would have stood up to Clutterbuck to show that you can't do that to this team. "The PP is our enforcer" doesn't hold water when the game isn't close and I'm worried that someone is going to get run hardcore late in a game when the outcome is not in doubt.

Downey, maybe?

[Dano33 41]

Charging is one of the toughest calls to make for a referee. By no means am I defending clutterbuck, because i think the hit was unneccessary, but his job is to go out and hit people. How else is he going to hit Lebda if he doesn't skate to get there, whether it is to separate him from the puck or to hurt him. The whole "number of strides" argument doesn't really work. The penalty should be based on intent, and it seems possible that the refs view of the play may be very different than someone elses.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Dano33

[hokeychik22 17]

Because that last name is punishment enough!!

I love the name!! Cluttlerbuc is the best hockey last name!!

[Donaldjr2448 43]

Is there any coincidence that Clutterbuck wears the number 22!! Just saying!! (TooToo and Lemieux). But seriously, I thought there should have been a penalty on the hit, Clutterbuck came from a 100 feet away to make the hit, left his feet and led with his elbow. How is the hit on Lebda any different than the hit Lilja put on the St Louis player a couple of weeks ago????

[DaKineMaui 8]

I just WISH we had a guy named Clutterbuck.

[SDavis35 140]

He was saying that Lebda should of stood up and he would of been alright... I doubt it.

He came in way to fast for that not to hurt.....

If Clutterbuck would of changed direction a bit to snub Lebs out of the play then he would of made his point and the hit would of been cleaner than it was ...... All im saying is there was no intent on playing the puck...even after the hit... he skated backward and admired it while the play continued......

That was a dirty hit and should of been a penalty.

Clutterbuck, yes dirty hit. Yes it would hurt if he stood up, but I think it may have been worse because he bent over (Knee in the back) Not sure the physics, so you could be right.

Thanks for the video too, looks clean, and legal on Lebda's part.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 119]

Is there any coincidence that Clutterbuck wears the number 22!! Just saying!! (TooToo and Lemieux). But seriously, I thought there should have been a penalty on the hit, Clutterbuck came from a 100 feet away to make the hit, left his feet and led with his elbow. How is the hit on Lebda any different than the hit Lilja put on the St Louis player a couple of weeks ago????

Lilja spent time in the box and Clutterbuck did not!

[Zion 93]

Lebda really needs to get his stick and/or elbow up in this situation. Must Pavel do EVERYTHING for this team?

[imisssergei 0]

Here is how I saw it.

Lebda's hit was clean, but penalizable.

Clutterbuck's hit was questionable, but legal.

Regardless of opinion, I think something bigger is being missed.

Mickey pointed it out right away. If Ozzie would have been able to play the puck, that wouldn't have happened. I think the NHL needs to get rid of or modify that rule.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Here is how I saw it.

Lebda's hit was clean, but penalizable.

Clutterbuck's hit was questionable, but legal.

Regardless of opinion, I think something bigger is being missed.

Mickey pointed it out right away. If Ozzie would have been able to play the puck, that wouldn't have happened. I think the NHL needs to get rid of or modify that rule.

Lebda=

[imisssergei 0]

Lebda=

Exactly...

With the way the game is called, Lebda can't get a stick or elbow up to protect himself without taking a penalty. Ozzie can't run interference, or play the puck.

On a sidenote, I would like to know why Lebda stretched out the way he did. Doesn't make much sense to me. Hug the glass and let Clutterbuck absorb the recoil.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Here is how I saw it.

Lebda's hit was clean, but penalizable.

Clutterbuck's hit was questionable, but legal.

Regardless of opinion, I think something bigger is being missed.

Mickey pointed it out right away. If Ozzie would have been able to play the puck, that wouldn't have happened. I think the NHL needs to get rid of or modify that rule.

you are only saying it was legal beuase there was no call. that doesn't make it so. as i stated before per the definition of charging it fits period. mickey also stated that clutter took a run at lebda and it was a bad hit.

[Zion 93]

Should have brought up a cross-check into his face. Take the penalty next time. No one on this current roster is tough enough to retaliate on a hit like that, so get the stick into his teeth. It'll give the penalty killers some much-needed practice.