Filppula has the most Even Strength points after Z, D, Hossa

[Z and D for the C 712]

For the people who think he completely sucks.

He's played most of the year on the third line and how that he's playing with hossa on the second he is producing. For forwards, the big three and franzen have more ES time on ice per game. Flip has 26 ES points to franzen's 21.

Take it for what you will.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Filppula has the most even strength minutes after Hossa and Datsyuk.

Filppula is the 7th most productive forward at even strength, and takes 29 minutes to put up 1 even strength point, more time than Datsyuk, Hossa, Hudler, Cleary, Zetterberg, and Homer.

Edited February 14, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[P. Marlowe 748]

Filppula has the most even strength minutes after Hossa and Datsyuk.

Filppula is the 7th most productive forward at even strength, and takes 29 minutes to put up 1 even strength point, more time than Datsyuk, Hossa, Hudler, Cleary, Zetterberg, and Homer.

Do you know where you can put your boat and your rude posts? Filppula is still good.

[seeinred 1,488]

Filppula has the most even strength minutes after Hossa and Datsyuk.

Filppula is the 7th most productive forward at even strength, and takes 29 minutes to put up 1 even strength point, more time than Datsyuk, Hossa, Hudler, Cleary, Zetterberg, and Homer.

OK, so let me get this straight. There are 3 forwards per line, right? And Val is (or at least has been) on the 3rd line, right? So there are at least 6 forwards ahead of him? And somehow it's a bad thing he's 7th in production/minute.

You can show all your points/minute s***, but the fact is, it doesn't matter. All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number.

Edited February 14, 2009 by SeeinRed

[Doggy 130]

Filppula has the most even strength minutes after Hossa and Datsyuk.

Filppula is the 7th most productive forward at even strength, and takes 29 minutes to put up 1 even strength point, more time than Datsyuk, Hossa, Hudler, Cleary, Zetterberg, and Homer.

Do you think there is a linear relationship between points and minutes played?

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

I don't care how many people hate Filppula and think he sucks, but I do know this, Filppula and Leino will be playing on the top line within the next 8 years.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

OK, so let me get this straight. There are 3 forwards per line, right? And Val is (or at least has been) on the 3rd line, right? So there are at least 6 forwards ahead of him? And somehow it's a bad thing he's 7th in production/minute.

You can show all your points/minute s***, but the fact is, it doesn't matter. All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number.

I like your cut and dry point of view on this except for one thing. He is payed to produce numbers that would put him fourth or fifth in total points. Not 9th among forwards and 12th total. What he brings and what he is supposed to bring are two totally different things!

[wingsdiehard13 33]

I don't care how many people hate Filppula and think he sucks, but I do know this, Filppula and Leino will be playing on the top line within the next 8 years.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[kook_10 1,705]

I like your cut and dry point of view on this except for one thing. He is payed to produce numbers that would put him fourth or fifth in total points. Not 9th among forwards and 12th total. What he brings and what he is supposed to bring are two totally different things!

Well how do you figure you know what he is supposed to do? By putting up the 4th most even strength points is he doing something wrong? He has the 12th most ice time on the power play - 7th among forwards. Where do you think his additional points should be coming from? Maybe you think Babcock isn't doing what he is supposed to by failing to put him out on the PP. I think maybe they know what they're doing.

Edited February 14, 2009 by kook_10

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Do you know where you can put your boat and your rude posts? Filppula is still good.

Never said he wasn't good, or that he sucked. Just pointing out the obvious fallacy of the "topic," if you can even call it that.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Do you think there is a linear relationship between points and minutes played?

Why yes. Yes I do. Its a novel concept, I know.

[kook_10 1,705]

Why yes. Yes I do. Its a novel concept, I know.

so its resolved. we play Dats all 60 minutes.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

OK, so let me get this straight. There are 3 forwards per line, right? And Val is (or at least has been) on the 3rd line, right? So there are at least 6 forwards ahead of him? And somehow it's a bad thing he's 7th in production/minute.

You can show all your points/minute s***, but the fact is, it doesn't matter. All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number.

You can call lines any numbers you want - A player who plays the 3rd most at even strength should produce the 3rd most at even strength. Similarly, a player who plays 3rd most at even strength is statistically a 1st line player at even strength.

All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number, eh? In that case, Filppula must be the 9th best forward because he has the 9th most points among forwards. After all, all that matters when it comes to points is the "absolute number."

Edited February 14, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Well how do you figure you know what he is supposed to do? By putting up the 4th most even strength points is he doing something wrong? He has the 12th most ice time on the power play - 7th among forwards. Where do you think his additional points should be coming from? Maybe you think Babcock isn't doing what he is supposed to by failing to put him out on the PP. I think maybe they know what they're doing.

I think that his additional points should come from earning PP time by his exceptional play. He doesn't produce the points he should because he can't break through. He hasn't EARNED those PP min's.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I don't care how many people hate Filppula and think he sucks, but I do know this, Filppula and Leino will be playing on the top line within the next 8 years.

If so, that means this franchise will hit rock bottom at some point before then.

I suppose Sammy will be our 40 year old captain by that point.

[seeinred 1,488]

You can call lines any numbers you want - A player who plays the 3rd most at even strength should produce the 3rd most at even strength. Similarly, a player who plays 3rd most at even strength is statistically a 1st line player at even strength.

All that matters when it comes to points is the absolute number, eh? In that case, Filppula must be the 9th best forward because he has the 9th most points among forwards. After all, all that matters when it comes to points is the "absolute number."

Notice how I didn't say "All that matters is..." I said "When it comes to points." I was just saying how dumb it is to say that A is better than B because A puts up more PPM with less ice time. The fact of the matter is, Val is 9th in PP time. Most people above him have at least 100 minutes more on the PP than he does. It's not that big of a stretch to say that even with Franzen's PP time, Flip could pretty easily be 4th or 5th among forwards in points.

[TheOwl 77]

He's not terrible, no one is saying he is, but for his 3 million dollar cap hit, we aren't getting much. On another team he would probably make 3 mill max, but for his money you could replace him with 2 equally good players. Franzen or Flipulla? Leino or Flipulla? Hudler or Flipulla? Wouldn't almost everyone take the other guy? And that's what it'll probably come down too. Losing Hudler, Leino and Franzen. I would rather take Sammy, who has out produced Flipulla in every season and play-off. The cap problem is immense, and trading Flipulla for a 1st round pick means we could keep one of those other players. He's not great, he's just a mediocre forward who isn't performing all that well.

The money could be put to much better use. No one can deny that.

And to put it in perspective, Flipulla is the 3rd highest payed forward this year on the roster. He's got his raise, he's got his contract already, and he's still under performing, while people like Sammy, Hudler, Franzen are putting up career numbers (career numbers which far surpass Flipulla's). Other players are stepping it up to earn a roster spot, Flipulla isn't.

Edited February 15, 2009 by TheOwl

[wingsdiehard13 33]

He's not terrible, no one is saying he is, but for his 3 million dollar cap hit, we aren't getting much. On another team he would probably make 3 mill max, but for his money you could replace him with 2 equally good players. Franzen or Flipulla? Leino or Flipulla? Hudler or Flipulla? Wouldn't almost everyone take the other guy? And that's what it'll probably come down too. Losing Hudler, Leino and Franzen. The cap problem is immense, and trading Flipulla for a 1st round pick means we could keep one of those other players. He's not great, he's just a mediocre forward who isn't performing all that well.

The money could be put to much better use. No one can deny that.

I agree with your post. However, we will not be getting a first round pick if we trade Filpulla.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Notice how I didn't say "All that matters is..." I said "When it comes to points." I was just saying how dumb it is to say that A is better than B because A puts up more PPM with less ice time. The fact of the matter is, Val is 9th in PP time. Most people above him have at least 100 minutes more on the PP than he does. It's not that big of a stretch to say that even with Franzen's PP time, Flip could pretty easily be 4th or 5th among forwards in points.

In most cases, player A is better than player B if hes putting up more points with less time - whether its PP or ES time doesn't make a difference. Points per minute is a good indicator of that. Whats dumb is to thing that PPM isn't a good indicator of talent. At even strength, Filppula is putting up ES points at the rate of a 3rd liner, yet hes getting the ice time of a first liner. Thats logic. Thats fact. Thats evidence.

As for PP time, Filppula doesn't get PP time because hes not better than any of the others offensively. Filppula has played 36 minutes on the PP this year, and has 1 point. 36 minutes may not be a lot, buts its akin to 3+ minutes per game over a 10 game period. And 1 point is the result for a guy who will be 25 next month.

Edited February 15, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Depth.

If the Wings didn't have so much good offensive depth right now, Flipper would probably be on the 2nd line more consistently (assuming Datsyuk/Zetterberg have or continue to play together).

The Wings are paying him 2nd line money but have sick offensive depth so he's playing a little less time.

Hence, point production might be down somewhat.

Does it stink? Yeah, somewhat but I like how the Wings have sick offensive depth.

And I like Flipper as well.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Depth.

If the Wings didn't have so much good offensive depth right now, Flipper would probably be on the 2nd line more consistently (assuming Datsyuk/Zetterberg have or continue to play together).

The Wings are paying him 2nd line money but have sick offensive depth so he's playing a little less time.

Hence, point production might be down somewhat.

Does it stink? Yeah, somewhat but I like how the Wings have sick offensive depth.

And I like Flipper as well.

Filppula gets 1st line even strength minutes. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. First.

[seeinred 1,488]

Filppula gets 1st line even strength minutes. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. First.

He's actually 5th in ESTOI/G.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Filppula gets 1st line even strength minutes. Not 2nd. Not 3rd. First.

Ok.

I still want him on the team though.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

He's actually 5th in ESTOI/G.

Hes third in ESTOI total. He doesn't get brownie points because he plays less per game than Franzen, when Franzen has had 9 fewer games to put up Even strength points, and Zetterberg has played 5 fewer.

[seeinred 1,488]

In most cases, player A is better than player B if hes putting up more points with less time - whether its PP or ES time doesn't make a difference. Points per minute is a good indicator of that. Whats dumb is to thing that PPM isn't a good indicator of talent. At even strength, Filppula is putting up ES points at the rate of a 3rd liner, yet hes getting the ice time of a first liner. Thats logic. Thats fact. Thats evidence.

As for PP time, Filppula doesn't get PP time because hes not better than any of the others offensively. Filppula has played 36 minutes on the PP this year, and has 1 point. 36 minutes may not be a lot, buts its akin to 3+ minutes per game over a 10 game period. And 1 point is the result for a guy who will be 25 next month.

His PP time is also akin to playing the 1st 2 periods of a game on the PP. That's not what happens though. He averages 38 seconds per game on the PP. No one's going to put up numbers doing that.

Filppula is putting up ES points like a 1st liner, and he's getting the ES TOI of a 2nd liner. I don't know what stats you're looking at. I'm just glad Holland, Babcock and co. don't put as much stock in PPM as you do.