Question about Babcock and Co.

[Red Crazy 201]

First of all I want to say that this is not a slam against either Babcock or his coaching staff.

I want to know why they think that it is a good idea to not change goalies after a start like they had last night? Don't get me wrong I do not in anyway blame Ozzy for the outcome.

Hear me out. The team came out as flat as they could be and it looked like it was going to be a long night right from the first goal. Now I want to know why not try a goalie change to wake the team up after the 3rd goal? or 4th? Clearly by leaving him in it only does more harm then good. Ozzy has shown he has very little confidence this year and it is not going to help by leaving him in a game that is only going to get worse. I do realize that giving a goalie the hook can also be hard on their confidence but not in this case.

What do you all think?

What would Scotty have done?

Two blow outs in a week to teams that we might face in the first round is not good.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I understand what you mean. I think that since the Wings didn't wake up the last time they tried that, there was no point.

Babcock could have also been sending a message to the team saying "Osgood isn't the problem."

[FunkedUp 29]

I have no confidence is Osgood at this moment. I do think that he has the potential to be able to win another cup, but not this year. With 15 or so games left, you cannot just turn on the switch on command. Our goal tending this year will be our downfall, with a breakdown in defense a close second.

I admire the confidence in all you Ozzie supporters, but at this point....things are not looking good.

Hopefully, I am proved wrong.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I have no confidence is Osgood at this moment. I do think that he has the potential to be able to win another cup, but not this year. With 15 or so games left, you cannot just turn on the switch on command. Our goal tending this year will be our downfall, with a breakdown in defense a close second.

I admire the confidence in all you Ozzie supporters, but at this point....things are not looking good.

Hopefully, I am proved wrong.

Can we keep from this thread turning into a "Osgood sucks/doesn't suck" thread?

This has nothing to do with that.

[Stolsanov 0]

Scotty would rip this teams ass a new one if he was coaching and saw these two performances. I like Babcock but imo i don't think he gets on them hard enough when they come out flat.

[steveyzerman 0]

I noticed this, too.

I think, for the most part, after 3 goals, something needs to be switched up. It doesn't matter who you want to blame. So, after the 4th, 5th, 6th goal, I said to my friend, "Maybe he's sending a message to Kenny."

I don't want to start anything too crazy. But I remember when Leino was up for a few games & then sent back down. After, Babcock did an interview & was asked why he sent him back down. I believe his response was sarcastic, almost as if he was told to send Leino down & move someone else back up.

Maybe Kenny's the one pushing for Osgood, & Babcock's had enough.

I love both of those men, but it didn't seem right.

Edited March 9, 2009 by steveyzerman

[Red Crazy 201]

Scotty would rip this teams ass a new one if he was coaching and saw these two performances. I like Babcock but imo i don't think he gets on them hard enough when they come out flat.

I agree. Scotty would have ripped ass for sure!

He (Babcock) has his own style that is for sure. He will not hook a goalie before the game is all but over and he dosen't call many time outs to re-start the team. He seems to me like he is such an intense coach that this really has surprised me since he came to Detroit. I was at the game in Minneapolis when they lost 5-2 and came out real flat, I was right behind the bench and all the coaches didn't react at all.

It is almost like the coaches and the players are like " oh well we will make the playoffs who cares it's just Columbus or Nashville or Minneapolis" .

But on the other hand there is more then enough expierence in the dressing room that a coach shouldn't have to kick there butts.

[Mike 0]

Scotty would rip this teams ass a new one if he was coaching and saw these two performances. I like Babcock but imo i don't think he gets on them hard enough when they come out flat.

It's pretty hard to come down hard on a team with that many veterans. The guys know what they did wrong, they don't need to be berated about it. Then again, the veterans could be ignoring the problems by telling themselves that the ship will right in the playoffs.

[Mike 0]

I understand what you mean. I think that since the Wings didn't wake up the last time they tried that, there was no point.

Babcock could have also been sending a message to the team saying "Osgood isn't the problem."

I think this is the most likely situation. Hopefully a good embarrassment gives the team the kick in the ass that they so desperately need.

[StevieY9802 6]

I have no confidence is Osgood at this moment. I do think that he has the potential to be able to win another cup, but not this year. With 15 or so games left, you cannot just turn on the switch on command. Our goal tending this year will be our downfall, with a breakdown in defense a close second.

I admire the confidence in all you Ozzie supporters, but at this point....things are not looking good.

Hopefully, I am proved wrong.

See I'm the other way around. I think the team defense is problem one. If they keep turning the puck over and missing defensive assignments it won't matter who's in net. 6 of the 8 goals the other night were created by dumb plays by the Wings. Osgood's not gonna get it turned around when Brian Rafalski keeps feeding the other team in the slot.

As for Babcock, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. The team knows they played bad and they've said it. Like someone said I don't know if ripping into them would do any good.

[steveyzerman 0]

Nobody's buying into the Babcock vs Holland thing, eh?

[Electrophile 3,554]

Osgood is not the problem, the team is the problem. You win or lose based on what the TEAM does, not one person. The first two goals were s***ty tip-ins that a proper defense would have prevented from getting anywhere near the net. If the defense does its job, the floodgates don't open. Would Ozzie have let in more goals after that? Who knows, but what I do know is that maybe the damage wouldn't have been anywhere as bad. We were sluggish, lazy, and giving the puck up every 5 seconds and could barely get the puck in net until the last half of the last period. You can't win s*** with play like that, regardless of what the goalie is doing.

You want the honest truth, I think the majority of criticism levied against Osgood this season is by people too afraid to admit that the whole team is a problem right now and they'd rather dump on a convenient target. This is not me saying Ozzie deserves no blame. This is me saying that spreading the blame around is a far more honest portrayal of our season thus far.

If Scotty was coaching this team, they'd be running suicides 'til they puked and he would have ripped them all new assholes about 5 times over. However, that was Bowman's coaching style. Babs is different. That doesn't make what he does worse or less effective. We have a team mostly comprised of veteran players and while maybe they need to hear the truth every now and again, screaming at them won't make them play better or make them see that they need to play better. That drill sergeant s*** might work on rookies, but it won't work on Nick Lidstrom, I'd be willing to wager. The vets are probably far more worse on themselves than Babcock could or would ever be.

[clayjoh 3]

Osgood is not the problem, the team is the problem. You win or lose based on what the TEAM does, not one person. The first two goals were s***ty tip-ins that a proper defense would have prevented from getting anywhere near the net. If the defense does its job, the floodgates don't open. Would Ozzie have let in more goals after that? Who knows, but what I do know is that maybe the damage wouldn't have been anywhere as bad. We were sluggish, lazy, and giving the puck up every 5 seconds and could barely get the puck in net until the last half of the last period. You can't win s*** with play like that, regardless of what the goalie is doing.

You want the honest truth, I think the majority of criticism levied against Osgood this season is by people too afraid to admit that the whole team is a problem right now and they'd rather dump on a convenient target. This is not me saying Ozzie deserves no blame. This is me saying that spreading the blame around is a far more honest portrayal of our season thus far.

If Scotty was coaching this team, they'd be running suicides 'til they puked and he would have ripped them all new assholes about 5 times over. However, that was Bowman's coaching style. Babs is different. That doesn't make what he does worse or less effective. We have a team mostly comprised of veteran players and while maybe they need to hear the truth every now and again, screaming at them won't make them play better or make them see that they need to play better. That drill sergeant s*** might work on rookies, but it won't work on Nick Lidstrom, I'd be willing to wager. The vets are probably far more worse on themselves than Babcock could or would ever be.

It would be interesting to do a video analysis of all goals against on Osgood or Conklin this year

As any hockey person knows many goals against are indefensible by the goalie in that the play that occured /puck movement/defensive error out front created the goal and Osgood or whoever had NO CHANCE to stop the puck crossing the line

I know the team's goals against is well up this year but I think a thoughtful video analysis would show that team defense is a far greater contributer that the perceived Osgood collapse everyone seems to ascribe to in our poorer goals against this year IMHO

I still think Babcock knows the power and veteran leadership he has at his disposal and the team as a whole has played the season on cruise control they'll be there when it counts

[Vladifan 680]

I have no confidence is Osgood at this moment. I do think that he has the potential to be able to win another cup, but not this year. With 15 or so games left, you cannot just turn on the switch on command. Our goal tending this year will be our downfall, with a breakdown in defense a close second.

I admire the confidence in all you Ozzie supporters, but at this point....things are not looking good.

Hopefully, I am proved wrong.

Wowza. You made your point that you weren't all that thrilled with Oz, but you didn't rip and tear. SOMEbody check the skies.

Thanks for your input.

[Datsook 0]

Scotty would rip this teams ass a new one if he was coaching and saw these two performances. I like Babcock but imo i don't think he gets on them hard enough when they come out flat.

scotty would've got them a cake. seriously. look it up. if you don't want to, then go here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=405793&cmpid=rss

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

scotty would've got them a cake. seriously. look it up. if you don't want to, then go here: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=405793&cmpid=rss

Damn For Real ????

"YOU GUYS SUCK!!!!! Let's eat cake, Ice cream anyone?"

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Nobody's buying into the Babcock vs Holland thing, eh?

Considering that the game occurred after the deadline it wouldn't have done him any good to try and send any message anyways.

It was 4-1 at the start of the third, daunting, but not impossible, so at that point I think Oz had a clean slate to work with from the whistle, but then the next three goals came so quickly he had to go. It wouldn't have mattered who was in net anyways, but I don't think Mike was sending any messages or using any strategy with the goalies in particular.

[Guest Shoreline]

I want to know why they think that it is a good idea to not change goalies after a start like they had last night?

Because they're retarded and can't win a Stanley Cup.

F U cupless coaches..

Edited March 10, 2009 by Shoreline

[Wombat 26]

This just seems like grasping for straws to me. It was 2-0 over halfway through the game. Even at 3-0 at that point, the game isn't out of reach. Nash gets the 4-0 goal on a bad shorthanded turnover and I don't know if I've ever seen a goalie pulled during a PP situation in the middle of a game. The game is 4-1 starting the 3rd when Nash gets a gift that would have needed a miraculous save for Osgood to stop. I think Babcock played it well. I know, Osgood needs to play better, there is no denying that, but still, you should never give up a hat trick to the oppositions' best player and have those 3 goals be unassisted. The defense and turnovers were the jokes in that game.

[Red Crazy 201]

I don't second guess the organization. Holland / Babcock have more credentials in their pinky nail than all of LGW members do combined.

I can't speak for what Bowman would have done. I promised we would have seem him chew ice though.

Just remember who was in net for the first blowout.... Can't focus only who was in net for the last blowout. Obviously, this is a TEAM issue, not just a goaltending issue.

I agree 100%. this is not a goalie VS goalie thread it is a question about a coaching decision.