lets go pavel 2 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Ozzie is not getting any better The numbers would suggest otherwise ... On the season, Ozzie has a 3.18 GAA and .884 SV% In his last 10 starts, he has a 2.86 GAA and .899 SV% If we throw out the Columbus game, he has a 2.27 GAA and a .919 SV% I'm comfortable going into the playoffs and next season with those numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spinner 6 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 I think Brodeur will almost be old enough to be our goalie next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 I'll be comfortable if he does that to the end of the year. But getting pulled a month until the playoffs isn't my definition of "improving". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Ozzie is not getting any better..time to let him go out to pasture..pick up a good available starter in a trade that will unleash Cleary,Kopecky,and Samuelsson and then make room for Howard and Larsson to fight it out for the backup position next year and to keep Hossa and Franzen on board... btw the youngster McCollum could be the next Hasek of the future.. Two of the three guys you mentioned are UFA's so they won't be part of a trade and I don't think Cleary will waive his no trade clause. McCollum might be the future but he's just that right now... the future. There is no way they'll bring him up anytime soon. It'll be Ozzie and Howard next year imo. They just don't have the money to go out and get a bigger upgrade, not if they want to sign Hossa and/or Franzen. Khabibulin will a FA but the Hawks might not let him go since Huet has been somewhat of a disappointment. I'm just gonna let this offseason play out. I can't even begin to imagine all the possible moves or changes. I have faith in Holland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 For the stat whores, Ozzie and Conklin traded places and now Ozzie recently has the hot glove while Conklin recently has statistically "stunk". Not that the stats ever meant s***, but certainly, stats or not, it's obvious Ozzie has been improving, despite people jumping off the bandwagon after every loss (boo hoo), and there's no reason to believe that Ozzie can't do it in the playoffs too. About Cujo, he already had chances with the Wings (two in the playoffs), and how many cups did he win? ZERO. He's had 14 playoff seasons in his career being the starting goalie, and how many cups? ZERO. "Osbad" is so bad he has 3 cup wins, two as a starting goalie, versus your boy Cujo's zeros. Indeed, those cups make him better than Cujo. And why I asked how your Canucks are doing is it's hard to believe you're a Red Wings fan with the way you trash certain players on the Red Wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevkrause 1,247 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Two of the three guys you mentioned are UFA's so they won't be part of a trade and I don't think Cleary will waive his no trade clause. McCollum might be the future but he's just that right now... the future. There is no way they'll bring him up anytime soon. It'll be Ozzie and Howard next year imo. They just don't have the money to go out and get a bigger upgrade, not if they want to sign Hossa and/or Franzen. Khabibulin will a FA but the Hawks might not let him go since Huet has been somewhat of a disappointment. I'm just gonna let this offseason play out. I can't even begin to imagine all the possible moves or changes. I have faith in Holland. exactly. well said. to everyone else, if this weren't a salary cap era, we could have this debate, but it is, and therefore this is a pointless debate. It WILL be Osgood/Howard with Howard given EVERY chance to upseat Ozzie throughout the year... and Larsson will see some time if there is injury... Also, it is NOT Larsson's turn either, regardless of how great he's looked OR how much he deserves it, Larsson has AHL options next year, Howard does not... so yet again- No discussion Osgood/Howard for 09/10 - period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManLuv4Clears 7 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Sorry don't take offense but your observations show how nauseating the whole goalie debate in Detriot has become. Bottom line we have crappy goaltending and the likelyhood of getting the Cup again with such goaltending , well the odds don't look good at all. As far as the justification you allude too what I'll keep referring to on this board ad nauseum until it changes " goaltending on the cheap in Detroit", now an institution since were all about high priced finesse is a weak justification for having such feeble goaltending. However you tell us how thankful we should be for having the likes of Osgood and Conklin at such reasonnable rates; oh were so fortunate thanks for the insight! Sorry, don't take offense, but you're acting like whiny *****. I didn't say the current situation is the ideal one, but that it is what it is and I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it like you. I'm one of the first to say that I think the team could use some more grit over all of the finesse. However, no matter what I say, nothing will change because I'm not Ken Holland. I'll continue to watch and enjoy, and not come onto these boards and act like a 5 year old. In your infinite wisdom of putting together a roster taking while into consideration salary cap and available funds, how would you have allocated the $750K Kenny had available for a back up goaltender? If you remember Ozzie's under contract and just won a Stanly Cup, so would you have not signed Hossa and used these monies for a back up goalie? Enlighten me. Edited March 25, 2009 by ManLuv4Clears Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Obviously, my plan didn't work trying to respond to Shoreline's post. Specifically, the line about "trashing certain players" on the Wings' team. This is what I will never understand. It is not logical. It makes absolutely no sense if you're a fan to call your own players stupid names, put them down, make statements saying they're never going to get better, or use sarcasm when talking about your own players. Where's the loyalty? More important, where's the support? Or is it really that you really are approximately 13 years old and just don't know better? If you're a fan, then you're a fan of the whole team and their goals, their roster, their management. If you're a fan, you understand that it's not about you or your hurt feelings or taking your team's weaknesses personally and getting all ******* cutesy about it. They personally owe you nothing unless you have season tickets and then you write to the management and give them suggestions or you don't buy season tickets anymore. Yeah, you use humor when things go bad because it helps all the fans and gives some added perspective that s*** yeah, it is just a game. Or god forbid, you make concrete, creative suggestions that other fans can actually comment on. I am SO sick of the sophomoric sarcastic commentary on here and I could name names but you're gonna come screaming back anyway saying something stupid that in essence says, OH yeah. It really is about you. You all make me want to puke with your ongoing pubescent attitudes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Like I said, Osgood is fine and in good form. He stunk it up a couple nights ago, but he's been looking more like the goalie that has won Cups for us for awhile now. One game doesn't throw that off, nor does this season in general. I've thought all along that he'll be fine when it really counts and I stand by that. You can quote me on it in June. Osgood's never been as great as some, but he's never been that bad either historically. He's been a fairly consistent goalie. He's never been a stand on your head guy. He's never needed to be here though. He's steady and gives teams a chance to win and can come up with a great game when you need it most. Again, let's not forget what he did on the dreadful Islanders back in the day. He took a crap team and carried them to the playoffs. He knows how to win. And everyone talks about the overtime goal in the semi's in '98 but no one talks about the shutout the next game to win the series. I've read and heard more Osgood bashing through the years than I care to recall, but at the end of the day, we've never lost a round in the playoffs because of him. There's never been a playoff series that we lost because Chris Osgood sucked. We've only lost when the team as a whole breaks down and we fail to put up more than a goal (if that) a game. The only goalie in the last 15 years on the Wings who made a major contribution to a playoff series loss was none other than everyone's favorite lifetime-backup Manny Legace. That's it. Every other goalie we've had in net has given us a chance to win, some more than others, like Cujo before the lockout when he was our best player after Manny flaked out after a horrendous season which found him shunned to the minors earlier in the season when Hasek unretired. Bottom line: 95% of the fans that run their mouths can't pick a goalie to save their lives. The only logical conclusion to me is that about 50-60% of the fans don't have a deep enough understanding of the game nor of the recent history of the team to understand what it takes for us to win and lose when it counts. The other 35% just need something to complain about for the sake of banter. And 5% see the situation for what it is and get frustrated at the other fickle fans. In any event, I'm not worried. We'll be fine. Save it for June. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladifan 680 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Like I said, Osgood is fine and in good form. He stunk it up a couple nights ago, but he's been looking more like the goalie that has won Cups for us for awhile now. One game doesn't throw that off, nor does this season in general. I've thought all along that he'll be fine when it really counts and I stand by that. You can quote me on it in June. Osgood's never been as great as some, but he's never been that bad either historically. He's been a fairly consistent goalie. He's never been a stand on your head guy. He's never needed to be here though. He's steady and gives teams a chance to win and can come up with a great game when you need it most. Again, let's not forget what he did on the dreadful Islanders back in the day. He took a crap team and carried them to the playoffs. He knows how to win. And everyone talks about the overtime goal in the semi's in '98 but no one talks about the shutout the next game to win the series. I've read and heard more Osgood bashing through the years than I care to recall, but at the end of the day, we've never lost a round in the playoffs because of him. There's never been a playoff series that we lost because Chris Osgood sucked. We've only lost when the team as a whole breaks down and we fail to put up more than a goal (if that) a game. The only goalie in the last 15 years on the Wings who made a major contribution to a playoff series loss was none other than everyone's favorite lifetime-backup Manny Legace. That's it. Every other goalie we've had in net has given us a chance to win, some more than others, like Cujo before the lockout when he was our best player after Manny flaked out after a horrendous season which found him shunned to the minors earlier in the season when Hasek unretired. Bottom line: 95% of the fans that run their mouths can't pick a goalie to save their lives. The only logical conclusion to me is that about 50-60% of the fans don't have a deep enough understanding of the game nor of the recent history of the team to understand what it takes for us to win and lose when it counts. The other 35% just need something to complain about for the sake of banter. And 5% see the situation for what it is and get frustrated at the other fickle fans. In any event, I'm not worried. We'll be fine. Save it for June. Thanks for the historical perspective and your attitude. I knew you had a good face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjgj13 30 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Goalies that have better stats then Ozzie. 1 Tim Thomas, BOS 2 Steve Mason, CLS 3 Pekka Rinne, NSH 4 Jonas Hiller, ANH 5 Niklas Backstrom, MIN 6 Evgeni Nabokov, SJ 7 Scott Clemmensen, NJ 8 Roberto Luongo, VAN 9 Ty Conklin, DET 10 N. Khabibulin, CHI 11 Tomas Vokoun, FLA 12 Chris Mason, STL 13 Henrik Lundqvist, NYR 14 Cristobal Huet, CHI 15 Ryan Miller, BUF 16 Cam Ward, CAR 17 Yann Danis, NYI 18 Alex Auld, OTT 19 Erik Ersberg, LA 20 Mike Smith, TB 21 Jonathan Quick, LA 22 Brian Elliott, OTT 23 Martin Biron, PHI 24 M. Fleury, PIT 25 Dwayne Roloson, EDM 26 Craig Anderson, FLA 27 A. Niittymaki, PHI 28 Jose Theodore, WAS 29 Carey Price, MON 30 Marty Turco, DAL 31 Jason LaBarbera, LA/VAN 32 Miikka Kiprusoff, CGY 33 Ilya Bryzgalov, PHO 34 Dan Ellis, NSH 35 Jaroslav Halak, MON 36 Peter Budaj, COL 37 Kari Lehtonen, ATL 38 Patrick Lalime, BUF 39 Andrew Raycroft 40 J. Giguere, ANH 41 Manny Legace, STL 42 Vesa Toskala 43 Chris Osgood 44. Johan Hedburg It seems he is. I guess that Kiprusoff is done too? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Anyone know Osgood's lifetime winning percentage? I'm about to jet so I'm not going to figure it out now. I bet even the Islanders/Blues years will be consistent and show strongly for Osgood. And I bet he'll smoke 90% of the active goalies right now in the area as well. I like that stat. What active goalie has the most Cups? Brodeur? Who's next? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pjgj13 30 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) Anyone know Osgood's lifetime winning percentage? I'm about to jet so I'm not going to figure it out now. I bet even the Islanders/Blues years will be consistent and show strongly for Osgood. And I bet he'll smoke 90% of the active goalies right now in the area as well. I like that stat. What active goalie has the most Cups? Brodeur? Who's next? His winning % for games played is .550 His winning % for games started is .572 He gets 1.22 points per game played Actually Brodeur and Ozzie have 3 cups. The only difference is all of Brodeurs is as a starter. Just imagine if the Wings beat the Devils in 95. Edited March 25, 2009 by pjgj13 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sixer 37 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 Get rid of Ozzie for sure!!!!! Andre Red light Racicot is looking better right about now! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted March 25, 2009 I guess that Kiprusoff is done too? The difference is Kiprusoff is the best goalie on his roster this season. Osgood? I don't so much want to bash Osgood as I want to support Conklin... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Obviously, my plan didn't work trying to respond to Shoreline's post. Specifically, the line about "trashing certain players" on the Wings' team. This is what I will never understand. It is not logical. It makes absolutely no sense if you're a fan to call your own players stupid names, put them down, make statements saying they're never going to get better, or use sarcasm when talking about your own players. Where's the loyalty? More important, where's the support? Or is it really that you really are approximately 13 years old and just don't know better? If you're a fan, then you're a fan of the whole team and their goals, their roster, their management. If you're a fan, you understand that it's not about you or your hurt feelings or taking your team's weaknesses personally and getting all ******* cutesy about it. They personally owe you nothing unless you have season tickets and then you write to the management and give them suggestions or you don't buy season tickets anymore. Yeah, you use humor when things go bad because it helps all the fans and gives some added perspective that s*** yeah, it is just a game. Or god forbid, you make concrete, creative suggestions that other fans can actually comment on. I am SO sick of the sophomoric sarcastic commentary on here and I could name names but you're gonna come screaming back anyway saying something stupid that in essence says, OH yeah. It really is about you. You all make me want to puke with your ongoing pubescent attitudes. I hear you, and some of us are a bit tired of it too, but what can you do, just give the people s*** whenever you can. And voicing your displeasure will end up with a few more who will just be antagonists, but how people can claim to be fans of a team and trash players on it is beyond me. The difference is Kiprusoff is the best goalie on his roster this season. Osgood? I don't so much want to bash Osgood as I want to support Conklin... How about support the Red Wings regardless of who they go with.. now there's an idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 The difference is Kiprusoff is the best goalie on his roster this season. Osgood? I don't so much want to bash Osgood as I want to support Conklin... That's not fair. Even Luongo wouldn't be the best player on this roster. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOwl 77 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Detroit needs a 2-3 year goalie fix until Larsson or McCollum is ready. Howard is not ready. Boston will only sign one of the two of Manny Fernandez and Tim Thomas. Trade Kronwall for picks, and offer Fernandez (most likely) his 3 million cap hit. Ericcson takes Kronwalls spot (an upgrade really). s***, I should be a GM!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 What makes anyone here think any of the goalies in the minors is the goalie of the future? Ozzie is the only one who made it in the last 18 years (from another thread). Howard will never be ready. Sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enforcer#24 0 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Although I really like Howard and especially Ozzie but I have huge concerns about this obvious tandem next season. Ozzie at his rate and with all his experiences and leadership is absolutely ok for me. Howard on the other hand had already several chances to proof he can make the job. Of course he deserves a chance in the NHL with regular plays but I don´t expect him to be neither a starting goalie nor a future top player (only average as his AHL career lately slowed down as well). So here´s my recommendation: - Season 09/10: Ride with Ozzie "The wizard" and give Howard his (last) chance of proofing that he can do it! I don´t see an evident upgrade in goaltending on the coming free agent market (with our cap situation) - Season 10/11: Go for Luongo!!! This would not be unrealistic as he already mentioned that he would take less money for the chance of the Cup. We would be absolutely stupid not to seize this chance!! Even if this means we have to deal some of our guys... As his backup partner I would like to see either Howard (if he proofed me wrong;) or Larson (to learn from Roberto!!) Please get it done Kenny! Perfect solution to stop all the goaltending discussions... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MidMichSteve 1,115 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Obviously, my plan didn't work trying to respond to Shoreline's post. Specifically, the line about "trashing certain players" on the Wings' team. This is what I will never understand. It is not logical. It makes absolutely no sense if you're a fan to call your own players stupid names, put them down, make statements saying they're never going to get better, or use sarcasm when talking about your own players. Where's the loyalty? More important, where's the support? Or is it really that you really are approximately 13 years old and just don't know better? If you're a fan, then you're a fan of the whole team and their goals, their roster, their management. If you're a fan, you understand that it's not about you or your hurt feelings or taking your team's weaknesses personally and getting all ******* cutesy about it. They personally owe you nothing unless you have season tickets and then you write to the management and give them suggestions or you don't buy season tickets anymore. Yeah, you use humor when things go bad because it helps all the fans and gives some added perspective that s*** yeah, it is just a game. Or god forbid, you make concrete, creative suggestions that other fans can actually comment on. I am SO sick of the sophomoric sarcastic commentary on here and I could name names but you're gonna come screaming back anyway saying something stupid that in essence says, OH yeah. It really is about you. You all make me want to puke with your ongoing pubescent attitudes. Sheesh! Lighten up a little. I know the word fan is taken from fanatic but it shouldn't be "You're either with us or you're against us." I agree that the bashing of some players is over the top but the bashers usually get their comeuppance. It is a discussion forum and opinions differ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Like I said, Osgood is fine and in good form. He stunk it up a couple nights ago, but he's been looking more like the goalie that has won Cups for us for awhile now. One game doesn't throw that off, nor does this season in general. I've thought all along that he'll be fine when it really counts and I stand by that. You can quote me on it in June. Osgood's never been as great as some, but he's never been that bad either historically. He's been a fairly consistent goalie. He's never been a stand on your head guy. He's never needed to be here though. He's steady and gives teams a chance to win and can come up with a great game when you need it most. Again, let's not forget what he did on the dreadful Islanders back in the day. He took a crap team and carried them to the playoffs. He knows how to win. And everyone talks about the overtime goal in the semi's in '98 but no one talks about the shutout the next game to win the series. I've read and heard more Osgood bashing through the years than I care to recall, but at the end of the day, we've never lost a round in the playoffs because of him. There's never been a playoff series that we lost because Chris Osgood sucked. We've only lost when the team as a whole breaks down and we fail to put up more than a goal (if that) a game. The only goalie in the last 15 years on the Wings who made a major contribution to a playoff series loss was none other than everyone's favorite lifetime-backup Manny Legace. That's it. Every other goalie we've had in net has given us a chance to win, some more than others, like Cujo before the lockout when he was our best player after Manny flaked out after a horrendous season which found him shunned to the minors earlier in the season when Hasek unretired. Bottom line: 95% of the fans that run their mouths can't pick a goalie to save their lives. The only logical conclusion to me is that about 50-60% of the fans don't have a deep enough understanding of the game nor of the recent history of the team to understand what it takes for us to win and lose when it counts. The other 35% just need something to complain about for the sake of banter. And 5% see the situation for what it is and get frustrated at the other fickle fans. In any event, I'm not worried. We'll be fine. Save it for June. A beautiful post. Sure Osgood has had his "help" in the past, but when you never have a losing season of any kind in a lengthy career, well I think you are doing pretty well for yourself. If bashers want to imply this by saying I'm delusional or think he's a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame or whatever else, go ahead and put words in my mouth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DMAC 25 18 Report post Posted March 26, 2009 Well, I DVR'd yesterdays game and I watched up until he got pulled - I'm done with Oz. He is absolute garbage, first one goes over his shoulder from 25 feet away, second he knocks in, third slides right past him. What is up for next year and what is our plan for the playoffs? Conklin is very well out for next year and he will have to bring one from the minors. How can we continue next year with ozzie? Also, does anyone know if Larsson will ever get a try in the NHL? how do u know conks is gone? i havent been paying a ton of attention to it b/c we're still in this year not next. and how can u say ozzy is garbage? yes hes having an awful year this year but if i remember right didnt he lead us to the stanley cup last year? so hes having a bad year it happens to everyone but next year if conks is gone i can see ozzy/howard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
