Contract talks between Wings and Hossa, Franzen on hold

[HockeytownRules19 902]

Hopefully they get settled. Go Wings!

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20..._red_win_1.html

[titanium2 867]

Waiting until June is probably the smartest thing to do. I hate to admit that because I hate thinking "fiscally." Stupid adulthood.

[Guest Shoreline]

Sadly I'm going to agree with post #2. Wait it out and see what the cap will allow.

[rage 24]

I found this part interesting.

"We're going to lose players,'' Holland said. "The only press conferences I'm going to have this summer are to announce which players are leaving. We're not having press conferences to say which (new) players are coming.''

[Jedi 1,865]

I found this part interesting.

Completely true though. There's no way we're going to be able to do any shopping on the free agent market this year. Even if we don't sign Hossa or Franzen, the rest of the secondary & role players will fill out the cap.

If we sign both, then we're at the cap and will have to fill the role players with guys from GR.

This is going to be one of the hardest offseasons for Kenny, no doubt. There's just no way around losing players who want to stay in Detroit. He's got some VERY hard decisions ahead of him this summer.

[KillerB14 2]

Reports were Holland was meeting with Hossa's agent today. Rich Winter lives in Edmonton. Guess it didn't go all that well.

I'm leaning towards Franzen and the extra money for Hudler/Leino/other players. I'm not trying to take away from what Hossa can do, but I think Franzen isn't done getting better and he'll come slightly cheaper. Like the article said, "Every $100,000 matters." I'd rather have a more well rounded team.

I think after the playoffs, the Wings will have a better grip on whether they should use that money for the forwards or maybe a goalie. Better to wait.

[Phazon 24]

red wings has proven they can win a cup without hossa. And franzen was very important during that cup run.

I'll just wait and see how things turn out this playoffs before making decisions.

[kylee 727]

If we sign both, then we're at the cap and will have to fill the role players with guys from GR.

im all for some players from Grand Rapids getting a full time spot if it means keeping Hossa and Franzen. but if both of them stay, who do the Wings lose?

Sammy

Hudler (most likely)

Flip (possibly)

anyone else?

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

I like this too. No one knows who will be here next year, so everyone up for free agency is going to play their hearts out. This is why Kenny is an amazing gm and I am not. I would have signed Hossa immediately because I tend to not think about my actions.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Et tu Hossa?

*Dear baby Jesus,

Please don't let both Hossa AND Franzen sign this season. Please make sure the Wings maintain a defense-first policy.

Also, please make sure the Wings keep Hudler and Leino, even if it's at the expense of Filppula.

Thanks!

Marcus*

[Glubki 17]

Reports were Holland was meeting with Hossa's agent today. Rich Winter lives in Edmonton. Guess it didn't go all that well.

I'm leaning towards Franzen and the extra money for Hudler/Leino/other players. I'm not trying to take away from what Hossa can do, but I think Franzen isn't done getting better and he'll come slightly cheaper. Like the article said, "Every $100,000 matters." I'd rather have a more well rounded team.

I think after the playoffs, the Wings will have a better grip on whether they should use that money for the forwards or maybe a goalie. Better to wait.

I don't see how they can let Franzen walk and get nothing back for him in any scenario. Even if they retain Hossa it is better to sign Franzen and lose Hudler to FA and trade Flip and get some prospects or draft picks out of the deal than lose him and get nothing.

[Mike 0]

I think it is good news that other teams are interested in Howard. I do not think that Howard got a fair shake this year since he only played one game and that one game was during the period where our defense decided to not show up. As of now, it looks like Ozzie and Howard are the Wings goaltenders for next season. I'd really like for Conks to win a Cup, so we better get it done for him this season because I do not think that the Wings can afford him next season.

The Wings number one priority should be Franzen just because he will come cheaper and he is considered the replacement for Homer. Do not get me wrong, I love Hossa and hope to God that Kenny can find a way to keep him in a Red Wings uniform, but if it cannot happen, then it cannot happen. I will hold no ill will for Hossa leaving. He is an amazing player and deserves a large pay day. If only one can stay, then it should be Franzen.

The Wings should really consider bringing up some of the GR guys for permanent roster spots. The Wings should let go of Kopecky and Samuelson and bring up Helm and Leino. Helm has been NHL ready for a season or so and Leino has proved himself worthy of a roster spot. If the Wings have to part ways with Hudler so be it. We can survive without him, but keep him if you can.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

im all for some players from Grand Rapids getting a full time spot if it means keeping Hossa and Franzen. but if both of them stay, who do the Wings lose?

Sammy

Hudler (most likely)

Flip (possibly)

anyone else?

The Wings would be screwed if they lost Hudler in this situation. No one will give them fair value because they know we're up against a wall.

I'm not happy with the thought that the Wings would have 4 forwards being paid at least $4 million, three of which would be making over $6 million.

Not the situation you want to be in if you're hoping to maintain even a modest level of depth.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Thought the topic was that Hossa & the wings were talking and Franzen was on hold. D:

Whether we only sign Hossa or only sign Franzen (and others), we're going to have a great team again next year.

Just as long as we don't sign both.

[kylee 727]

The Wings number one priority should be Franzen just because he will come cheaper and he is considered the replacement for Homer. Do not get me wrong, I love Hossa and hope to God that Kenny can find a way to keep him in a Red Wings uniform, but if it cannot happen, then it cannot happen. I will hold no ill will for Hossa leaving. He is an amazing player and deserves a large pay day. If only one can stay, then it should be Franzen.

but it still begs the question: why franzen?

how do we know that franzen will come cheaper?

i think if it truly comes down to either franzen or hossa, i take hossa no questions asked.

he's the better player. hes willing to take less to stay here, why not him?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Looking back over this season, given that its almost over, there has turned out to be a much smaller gap between Franzen and Hossa overall. Suddenly Frazen has 55 points in 63 games, where Hossa has 66 points in 68 games. Thats .87 PPG to .97 PPG. Not exactly the big advantage I was expecting Hossa to have.

Now, what Im not saying is that Franzen is equal to Hossa, but Im not convinced that Hossa as a Red Wing is worth 6M, and 2M more than Franzen as a Red Wing. Notice how I said "as a Red Wing." This pertains specifically to how the Wings are built, and for whatever reason, Franzen seems a better fit than Hossa.

And just to spell it out - because inevitably someone will have troubles comprehending this - yes, Hossa has the better release, is the better defensive forward, and the better passer. But Franzen has shown that he can improve in all of those areas and be a force in his own right. In particular, I've been impressed with Franzen's passing game lately. (I wonder if he had a personal goal of reaching 30 goals this season, and now that hes hit it, is willing to give the puck up a little more to his teammates).

[titanium2 867]

This part sounded just sad to me.

Holland met with Hossa's agent, Ritch Winter, over the weekend. Hossa signed a one-year, $7.45 million deal last July but realizes he must take less (perhaps in the neighborhood of $6 million per season) to stay.

"If we're not able to find a way, you know what, we had a great player come here for one year,'' Holland said.

Such a "glass half-full statement."

Made me think that I'm going to miss Ken Daniels' reaction to Hossa scoring, "SCORES!!! MARE-ee-nn HOHs-AHHHHHHH"

But in all seriousness, only eight forwards signed... Man. Not even three lines. If they were to drop Meech and Lebda that would be another 1 million.

I seriously doubt that they will trade Filppula just to free up room. Their idea of Filppula in his prime is a second line center who provides good defense and gets 50-70 points. This year he's been interchanged between the 2nd and 3rd line and is currently 12th on the team in PP time with 58:07 and he's managed 38 points with 8 games left to play. My guess is that Kenny and Co. view his season as him being on track in terms of his progression.

Someone needs to break it down combination by combination and we'll all vote on it. Let's say the cap stays at 56.7. What are some feasible options?

For instance...

Hossa/Hudler/Kopy

Franzen/Hudler/Leino

???

[Z and D for the C 712]

Looking back over this season, given that its almost over, there has turned out to be a much smaller gap between Franzen and Hossa overall. Suddenly Frazen has 55 points in 63 games, where Hossa has 66 points in 68 games. Thats .87 PPG to .97 PPG. Not exactly the big advantage I was expecting Hossa to have.

Now, what Im not saying is that Franzen is equal to Hossa, but Im not convinced that Hossa as a Red Wing is worth 6M, and 2M more than Franzen as a Red Wing. Notice how I said "as a Red Wing." This pertains specifically to how the Wings are built, and for whatever reason, Franzen seems a better fit than Hossa.

And just to spell it out - because inevitably someone will have troubles comprehending this - yes, Hossa has the better release, is the better defensive forward, and the better passer. But Franzen has shown that he can improve in all of those areas and be a force in his own right. In particular, I've been impressed with Franzen's passing game lately. (I wonder if he had a personal goal of reaching 30 goals this season, and now that hes hit it, is willing to give the puck up a little more to his teammates).

I disagree. Unless Franzen is will to take like 3 mil, I'll take Hossa for 6 mil over Franzen for 4 mil all day long. Franzen will never be the forward Hossa is in any aspect of the game, ever. It's pointless to enumeration the reasons as I'm sure you're aware of them. Also keep in mind hossa spent a good time transitioning into the team, where Franzen has been year for years. (and yes I read your last paragraph)

This year he's been interchanged between the 2nd and 3rd line and is currently 12th on the team in PP time with 58:07 and he's managed 38 points with 8 games left to play.

...and is 1 point behind Z in even strength scoring...while playing on the third line. Notice he plays on a top line for 5 seconds tonight and gets a goal.

Edited March 25, 2009 by Z and D for the C

[titanium2 867]

Franzen has shown that he can improve in all of those areas and be a force in his own right. In particular, I've been impressed with Franzen's passing game lately. (I wonder if he had a personal goal of reaching 30 goals this season, and now that hes hit it, is willing to give the puck up a little more to his teammates).

Sure, and if he's on a line with say Filppula and Leino, then he doesn't have to be the guy who looks to make plays. And with that line, Leino can be in the process of improving his skating with no problem because Filppula and Franzen would be the primary skaters.

To be fair, he'll never be the guy who can thread a needle with a pass. He's very much a bull with the puck. I'm thinking that his pass to Hossa against Edmonton is very much a once in a while occasion. Instead, I see him more of a guy who gets many of his assists by shots on a goaltender's pads that lead to rebounds or the guy who dishes it off to an open winger because he has three guys on him.

[JeffBridges 0]

Sign Franzen, let Hossa walk. Franzen has formed a pretty decent chemistry with Datsyuk, while Hossa is pretty much the same with Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Hossa is amazing but he doesn't fit the team and now that Z is signed for 12 years, there isn't a reason to keep him. If anything, use the money spent on Hossa for a guy like Bouwmeester.

[titanium2 867]

...and is 1 point behind Z in even strength scoring...while playing on the third line. Notice he plays on a top line for 5 seconds tonight and gets a goal.

If they needed to split up Pav and Z in the playoffs, I was thinking that line (Fil-Pav-Mule) would do pretty well; pretty much a better version of the Cleary-Pav-Homer line we saw last year, which wasn't too bad imo. It would also allow Homer to create some room for Z and Hossa.

It's just that for some reason, Pav and Homer are always together. Always.

[KillerB14 2]

I don't see how they can let Franzen walk and get nothing back for him in any scenario. Even if they retain Hossa it is better to sign Franzen and lose Hudler to FA and trade Flip and get some prospects or draft picks out of the deal than lose him and get nothing.

That's a little of what I'm saying. Let Hossa go. I know it hurts and I'm sure I'll cry like I did at the end of Harry and the Hendersons, but that's what I think should happen.

Hudler is a solid 3rd to 1st line player. He puts up points with very little ice time. I think the Wings need him badly. Flip is good and I still think he's worth what he's getting paid but he's on the 3rd line and we can't see his value. He's not like Hudler, he needs the minutes to score. Flip does however, make the 3rd line better defensively.

A lot of people say trade Flip and while I think that would be the best option moving forward, I do not think it's practical. I don't think teams would go for him at his tag and his recent stats. I could be wrong, I hope I am, that would be a huge help.

I'm looking past next season, what about when the cap goes down over the next couple years? What happens when all our GR Griffin studs start hitting RFAgency. Can Holland lock all them up on 4 yr 1-2 million contracts until the economy and the revenue gets better? If any of our young goalies get huge they will not be signing for that little.

I don't think it's a question of cap space for this year as much as how many long term huge contracts can we have? Hossa's talking about wanting to find a place to retire. Zetts is locked. I don't see Dats leaving in 14/15. What about Franzen? He's their age. What if we want to lock up any of our defense? Even if we add a couple years to the back with everyone at 1 million the cap hit will still be 4-7 million. In 6 years we will have 4-6 huge contracts(Dats, Zetts, Hossa, Franzen, Rafalski? Kronwall? a goalie??) eating up 24-30 million. It's smart to having anchors(Dats and Zetts, a defenseman) But when Dats, Zetts, Hossa and Franzen are all 33-35 wouldn't you imagine us to have a 25 yr old entering UFA that is just as good as they were if not better, that we would want to extend but can't?

It's a dream that I wish could work, I don't see it. I'm just gonna enjoy this year as it is. Like I did in my NHL09 and hope Hossa doesn't sign with the LA Kings for 9.2 million next season, like he did.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Sign Franzen, let Hossa walk. Franzen has formed a pretty decent chemistry with Datsyuk, while Hossa is pretty much the same with Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Hossa is amazing but he doesn't fit the team and now that Z is signed for 12 years, there isn't a reason to keep him. If anything, use the money spent on Hossa for a guy like Bouwmeester.

I don't think Hossa will ever play his best with either Z or Dats. Babbock will never do it but the best option is Z&D on the #1 line, then Flip/Hossa on the second. The line of Leino - flip - Hossa was awesome when it was together.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I disagree. Unless Franzen is will to take like 3 mil, I'll take Hossa for 6 mil over Franzen for 4 mil all day long. Franzen will never be the forward Hossa is in any aspect of the game, ever. It's pointless to enumeration the reasons as I'm sure you're aware of them. Also keep in mind hossa spent a good time transitioning into the team, where Franzen has been year for years. (and yes I read your last paragraph)

I guess you disagree with depth then. Because the whole point of my argument is that the gap is not big enough in terms of how they've performed this season (again, as Red Wings) to warrant a $2M difference in salary, which essentially means Franzen PLUS another player, and Hossa.

Again, to spell it out for you, Franzen + depth > Hossa alone "all day long."

[Z and D for the C 712]

The wings are by far the deepest team in the league. I think they can spare a bit of the depth. They'll still end up being one of the deepest teams in the league.