RedwingsPwn 0 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Hossa: 4 G 2 A 6 PTS in his last 14 GP Franzen: 8 G 11 A 19 PTS in his last 14 GP With the s*** play of the Redwings lately, you would hope an offseason acquistion would step up and carry the team. Hossa has been somewhat invisible lately (besides his GWG which was assisted by Franzen) although coming off that injury. Franzen has been quite clutch and scoring big goals that bring our team back into games. Does recent play affect anyone's choice on which one to keep? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FunkedUp 29 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) I don't think so. What I think is going to happen is that Franzen will sign a long term front loaded deal before playoffs start with a cap hit around 4 million. I think that Hoss will resign after the playoffs and that we will get him for a bargain (even by wings standards). I'm thinking something like a 10 year 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 3 3 with a cap hi of 5.8. You guys probably think I'm crazy, but no one thought Z would have a 6m cap hit. First off, he wouldn't be taking much of a pay cut for those first 4 years, and after he'll be in the ballpark of Hank and Pav. Hossa has already made many millions and he took a HUGE paycut to come play for a winning team. He obvious likes it here, and has been quoted by saying "I will take less $ to play in Detriot." Edited April 3, 2009 by FunkedUp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RusDRW 155 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 I like this statistical comparison... Just look at them one the ice. Franzen fits this team well. He does not do tricky things - there is a guy playing in the center who does it much better. He just tries to finish. Hossa thinks he is at least in the same league as Dats and Zeta. But the truth is he is not even close to Dats with his moves and far away from Zeta with his speed and execution. He loses the puck too often. While it is ok for a team like Atlanta it is not excusable when you're playing for the Wings. If we wants at least 2M more than Franzen he is redundant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NGKEIB 32 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Interesting numbers, but not surprising ones. Franzen is Mr. Clutch. Look at his run last year in the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yzermania 156 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 I like this statistical comparison... Just look at them one the ice. Franzen fits this team well. He does not do tricky things - there is a guy playing in the center who does it much better. He just tries to finish. Hossa thinks he is at least in the same league as Dats and Zeta. But the truth is he is not even close to Dats with his moves and far away from Zeta with his speed and execution. He loses the puck too often. While it is ok for a team like Atlanta it is not excusable when you're playing for the Wings. If we wants at least 2M more than Franzen he is redundant. I've been far more impressed with Hoss than Hank this season but I agree about pavs. I don't think there are many players in the league at his caliber though. Though I must admit, unless he is playing with pavs(Which seems to make everyone better) I don't think Hoss fits the team too well. I liked the 81/51/21 line earlier this season but Hoss and Hank don't mesh at all and Hoss and Mule aren't the greatest together either. I think that is why Babs split pavs and hank up again, because mule and z are great together and pavs and hoss are as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Other players who have 6 points in their last 14 games: Mikael Samuelsson Tomas Kopecky Based on the same last 14 games the OP wants to use, it looks like it would be a really tough decision whether or not to keep Hossa, Sammy, or Kopecky. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted April 3, 2009 Does recent play affect anyone's choice on which one to keep? Should it? Players get hot, players cool off. I trust one can make a reasonable argument for one player or the other that doesn't include "He outscored the other during a certain stretch of games." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanZ 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 I like this statistical comparison... Just look at them one the ice. Franzen fits this team well. He does not do tricky things - there is a guy playing in the center who does it much better. He just tries to finish. Hossa thinks he is at least in the same league as Dats and Zeta. But the truth is he is not even close to Dats with his moves and far away from Zeta with his speed and execution. He loses the puck too often. While it is ok for a team like Atlanta it is not excusable when you're playing for the Wings. If we wants at least 2M more than Franzen he is redundant. Hossa is easily faster than Zetterberg. He is the fastest player on the Wings and one of the fastest in the league. He also has a better shot than Z. He is very comparable to Z, but I agree, Dats is on another level right now. Probably one of the top 3 or 4 forwards in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 On the ice, Franzen has proven more... no question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 **********DISCLAMER I'M NOT TAKING ANYTHING AWAY FROM FRANZEN HE HAS REALLY COME INTO HIS OWN AND I REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO A BRIGHT FUTURE FOR HIM********************** That said this thread is unsettling to me. Using incidental statistics to try and prove a players worth over which player would be a better long-term investment...? When Franzen gets to the .80 PPG mark for more then a year in a row let me know, and I'll gladly actually go into a in-depth debate over which player is better. But until then a hot and cold, late-blooming, 6'3" frame with a 5'5" mindset so called "power forward" will always take a back seat to a complete player like Hossa, on my team at-least. Of course barring salary cap and etc. which is really too complicated to get into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dano33 41 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 On the ice, Franzen has proven more... no question. Based on what? They have nearly identical numbers. Both have the ability to take the puck to the net and score. The biggest difference i see between them is that Hossa is faster, stronger, and doesn't get pushed around as much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Based on what? They have nearly identical numbers. Both have the ability to take the puck to the net and score. The biggest difference i see between them is that Hossa is faster, stronger, and doesn't get pushed around as much. Franzen has over 3X the points Hossa has over the past 14 games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Franzen has over 3X the points Hossa has over the past 14 games. You can't be serious, you just cannot be serious... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedwingsPwn 0 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Other players who have 6 points in their last 14 games: Mikael Samuelsson Tomas Kopecky Based on the same last 14 games the OP wants to use, it looks like it would be a really tough decision whether or not to keep Hossa, Sammy, or Kopecky. I'm not hating on Hossa. I've thought all along that I'd rather have Hossa than Franzen without giving much consideration. However, lately, Franzen has been very clutch and actually on par with Hossa all season. For those of you who think I am being biased on these last 14 games here are the season stats. Marian Hossa DET R 71 37 29 66 +23 PPG = .929 Johan Franzen DET C 66 33 25 58 +22 PPG = .878 Franzen has battled through more injuries than Hossa as well this season. I am not hating on Hossa I am just realizing that maybe I looked past Franzen I bit too much and I believe that he is performing outstanding lately. He and Datsyuk have really been carrying this team. I just believe that once Hossa and Zetterberg get going like they have shown they can, our team should be quite dominate and far more effective offensively and defensively. Hossa flourishes with Datsyuk and Zetterberg flourishes with Franzen. I am not saying that based on just a single season I would take Franzen over Hossa either. I am just saying that since late last year and this year Franzen deserves some serious consideration and is becoming quite the force. He seems to be able to produce on his own whereas it looks like Hossa benefits from a playermaker like Datsyuk. We should ride these lines out for the remainder of the season and see if Hossa can get fired up. He was after all our big off season acquisition to repeat as Stanley Cup Champions and I believe that we need to utilize him in the best way possible which I believe is with Datsyuk. Homer - Datsyuk - Hossa Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary/Hudler Sammy - Flip - Cleary/Hudler Helm/Kopecky - Draper - Maltby/Leino Lidstrom - Rafalski Kronwall - Stuart Ericsson - Lebda/Lilja (hopefully) * Sorry if I contradict myself in this post as I am just letting the thoughts come out as they come to me Edited April 4, 2009 by RedwingsPwn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Well, let's not also forget you suggested Hossa was invisible lately, to mean something, when it looks more like a simple slump to me, might be something to do with injury. Then suggested Franzen is clutch when he's simply hot. I'm not taking away from or promoting any player more than another, and the worst thing I think people can do is pin Red Wing players against other teammates, but people are far too swayed by recent events regarding the bigger picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elriqo28 2 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 I'm going to wait for the playoffs before I judge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinRedWing 172 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Well,I learned before the season that Hossa can do whatever he wants. So yeah,considering that maybe Franzen has wanted it more for the last 14 games or so. Maybe Hossa's saving it for the playoffs. Edited April 4, 2009 by FinRedWing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Well,I learned before the season that Hossa can do whatever he wants. So yeah,considering that maybe Franzen has wanted it more for the last 14 games or so. Maybe Hossa's saving it for the playoffs. Hossa is going to be a beast in the playoffs. This is why he came here - to win the cup and he knows that he may not get another chance. Everything that happened in the regular season (good and bad) is going to be irrelevant. I expect him to provide the motivation that Drake supplied last year. His play is going to spark the team to a long playoff run. Mark my words, Hossa is going to be in the running for the Conn Smyth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinRedWing 172 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Hossa is going to be a beast in the playoffs. This is why he came here - to win the cup and he knows that he may not get another chance. Everything that happened in the regular season (good and bad) is going to be irrelevant. I expect him to provide the motivation that Drake supplied last year. His play is going to spark the team to a long playoff run. Mark my words, Hossa is going to be in the running for the Conn Smyth QFT. He doesn't just bring the hunger,he IS the hunger that the team needs to repeat. He sure was a beast last year,no reason why he wouldn't be one again. Edited April 4, 2009 by FinRedWing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 I wouldn't write off Hossa yet. Franzen has been hot lately, but there were times earlier this season where Hossa was carrying the team offensively as well. I don't want to lose either one, but if I have to choose I'm still taking Hossa over Mule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 You can't be serious, you just cannot be serious... Why wouldn't I be serious? Look at the totals for yourself. I never once said that Franzen was a better player, so you can unpuff your chest. I also don't recall ever saying that Hossa was done. Don't be blinded by a man crush... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Why wouldn't I be serious? Look at the totals for yourself. I never once said that Franzen was a better player, so you can unpuff your chest. I also don't recall ever saying that Hossa was done. Don't be blinded by a man crush... You insinuated that Franzen "wants it more" by what appears to be by basing it off the last 14 games. It irritates me to no end - people that try and appear to judge a PROFESSIONAL players' 'drive', or 'desire'. Especially when they are going to base their entire opinion on 14 games of the season. This isn't so much a matter of who you would like more, as Franzen -if he keeps up the scoring pace- would be a better option due to money constraints. But to say 'Franzen scored 3x as much as Hossa in the past 14 games' and use it as backing to 'Franzen wants it more' just really irks me=( Sorry for a mini rant. Woke up on the wrong side. Really could use a wings victory today... haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dano33 41 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 Why wouldn't I be serious? Look at the totals for yourself. I never once said that Franzen was a better player, so you can unpuff your chest. I also don't recall ever saying that Hossa was done. Don't be blinded by a man crush... Say this topic came up in the middle of February. Hossa's last 13 games before 2/16 12g, 6A Franzen's last 13 games before 2/16 4g, 2A There you go, Hossa had 3x as many points over a cartain span of time. Would you have said Hossa 'wants it more' then? Maybe, but you can't base who you want to keep for the future based on 1/6 of a season. You have to look at the entire season. Hossa is a better player (faster, stronger, stands up for himself) and only one year older. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 You insinuated that Franzen "wants it more" by what appears to be by basing it off the last 14 games. It irritates me to no end - people that try and appear to judge a PROFESSIONAL players' 'drive', or 'desire'. Especially when they are going to base their entire opinion on 14 games of the season. This isn't so much a matter of who you would like more, as Franzen -if he keeps up the scoring pace- would be a better option due to money constraints. But to say 'Franzen scored 3x as much as Hossa in the past 14 games' and use it as backing to 'Franzen wants it more' just really irks me=( Sorry for a mini rant. Woke up on the wrong side. Really could use a wings victory today... haha I said "On the ice, Franzen has proven more"... is there really a debate on that issue? It's pretty much black and white. In the past 14 games Franzen has been awesome and Hossa has been average (offensively). I watch both players very closely. Have for a long time. I'm not hesitant to say that it appears, to me, that Franzen is playing with more pep in his step than Hossa is. Right now. So... Like I said, one the ice, Franzen has proven more over the past 14 games. Both are under the pressure of lingering contract negototiations and Franzen just scored what might end up being one of the top 5 most spectacular goals scored this season. The dude feeds on pressure. Has proven that for 2 consecutive seasons. Right now, in the "which player is proving to be more clutch" category, Franzen is running away with it. It's still early... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Broken 16 381 Report post Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) Say this topic came up in the middle of February. Hossa's last 13 games before 2/16 12g, 6A Franzen's last 13 games before 2/16 4g, 2A There you go, Hossa had 3x as many points over a cartain span of time. Would you have said Hossa 'wants it more' then? Maybe, but you can't base who you want to keep for the future based on 1/6 of a season. You have to look at the entire season. Hossa is a better player (faster, stronger, stands up for himself) and only one year older. Who cares? Seriously. Why don't we talk about what happened 3 seasons ago. That would probably prove a lot. We're discussing current events in this thread. Welcome aboard. **EDIT** Looks like I might end up eating crow and admit that Shoreline was right. There are a lot of highly devoted/irrational Hossa fans. I HATE WHEN I HAVE TO EAT CROW... DAMMIT! Edited April 4, 2009 by Broken 16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
