Would you want Crosby on the Wings?

[Rivalred 630]

I don't have thick skin. Never have - probably never will. (It's one of the most irritating things in the world, but I make due.)

Also, I don't have my facts wrong. Whether he was sobering up or not - the Wings made perfectly clear that until he entered/finished rehab and was clean for a certain period of time, they weren't going to bring him back to the team. I did a report on him in high school. (Got a 96% - so it was worth it.)

Your what, 3-4 yrs out of high school now? That makes you graduating in 2005 or 2006? Post links to articles clearly stating the Wings were not going to take him back until he cleaned himself up?

McCarty's contract was bought out by the Wings during the lockout. He signed as a free agent in Calgary in August of 2005. He played 67 games during the 2005-2006 season. He only played 32 games for Calgary during the 2006-2007 season.

In December of 2007, Draper encouraged McCarty to made a comeback. So McCarty decided to play for the Flint Generals during the 2007-2008 season (small portion of it). Then played for the Griffins in 2007-2008 (small portion), the same year he was offered a contract from the Wings, which was last season and was ready for the playoffs.

McCarty was getting his act together WAY before signing that contract with the Wings.

You are implying that since you did an article on McCarty in Highschool (say in 2006) while he was under contract and injured with the Calgary Flames, he had an agreement with the Wings that if he would straighten himself out, the Wings would take him back?

Edited April 26, 2009 by Rivalred

[uk_redwing 495]

Just never been in a situation where he was discussed, I guess. I know he was one of my dad's favorite players and that he was a hardass. That's all I know.

Ok...not derailing the thread so I'll just tell you he was the greatest enforcer and fighter in the league has ever seen and probably will see. He only lost a handful of his hundreds and hundreds of fights.

PS. Dont feed the troll

[Ms_Hockey 0]

You are implying that since you did an article on McCarty in Highschool (say in 2006) while he was under contract and injured with the Calgary Flames, he had an agreement with the Wings that if he would straighten himself out, the Wings would take him back?

No, I'm implying that since I did a report on it, I'm not a moron and I know what I'm talking about.

No matter, here's a few quotes from an article I'm pulling up:

Red Wings general manager Ken Holland, who was the team's top scout when it drafted McCarty in 1992, saw a promising sign when McCarty ditched a mohawk for a conservative haircut when they had a meeting in January.

Holland offered no guarantees, but did extend a chance to play for Detroit's minor-league affiliate in Grand Rapids with the possibility of getting back to the NHL.

McCarty did enough to earn a deal in late February.

"I've got a soft spot for Darren," Holland said.

Many fans do, too.

I may have mixed some things up, but I'm absolutely 100% certain that McCarty proving he was clean and level-headed was a must for him playing for the Wings again. The Wings had a reputation to uphold and McCarty had to fit that. That's all that needs to be said.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Ms_Hockey

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Ok...not derailing the thread so I'll just tell you he was the greatest enforcer and fighter in the league has ever seen and probably will see. He only lost a handful of his hundreds and hundreds of fights.

PS. Dont feed the troll

No wonder my dad liked him so much.

[Rivalred 630]

Ok...not derailing the thread so I'll just tell you he was the greatest enforcer and fighter in the league has ever seen and probably will see. He only lost a handful of his hundreds and hundreds of fights.

PS. Dont feed the troll

You know this could be considered baiting or flaming.

No, I'm implying that since I did a report on it, I'm not a moron and I know what I'm talking about.

No matter, here's a few quotes from articles I'm pulling up:

I may have mixed some things up, but I'm absolutely 100% certain that McCarty proving he was clean and level-headed was a must for him playing for the Wings again.

Now your changing your story? I thought you were certain? Apparently you may do not know what you are talking about. And please, post a direct link to quotes or articles you are posting per forum rules. That is how we know the information is legit or not.

Back on topic.

Sidney is a good player, but he lacks discipline. With age and experience that will hopefully change. I do have to admit one thing about Crosby, he has a lot more determination than#19 in San Jose has in the playoffs. That alone is a plus.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Now your changing your story? I thought you were certain? Apparently you may do not know what you are talking about. And please, post a direct link to quotes or articles you are posting per forum rules. That is how we know the information is legit or not.

I'm not going to continue to bounce back and forth with you. My initial point remains the same. End of discussion.

And after I read your other post, I went back and posted the link.. so thanks.

[skacore 2]

Well, is it worth mentioning that Crosby's defensive skills are far better than Malkin and Ovechkin? Yes, I said FAR better.

I would disagree. I would say Crosby is worse than either defensively. In fact, I did in the post you quoted.

well you're wrong lol

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I don't find Crosby as immature as I do irritating. Anybody who can sit in a post-game press conference and discredit Zetterberg's play when he not only helped kill a 5-on-3, but took the puck and shot it on the Pens goal is just flat out stupid. Immature? A little bit. Irritating? Incredibly so. I have yet to hear a single player on the Detroit Red Wings bash anybody on another team in a public interview. They're always respectful and maybe even give the other team way more credit than they should.

Maltby doesn't have to fight after making a hit. That's not a sign of not being a high caliber of person. Clearly, you'd appreciate a little fight. Frankly, I couldn't care less about hockey fights. So if he wants to skate away, so what? I would never bash a player for skating away from a fight.

Chelios hardly plays anymore. Running his mouth? What player DOESN'T jaw-jack their opponents on the ice?

I know nothing about Probert or Klima. I'm only 20, need I remind you.

Darren McCarty was traded away from the Red Wings and only taken back when he agreed to enter rehab and sober up first. Apparently, I'm not the only one that thinks this team has a reputation to uphold.. and McCarty wasn't fitting that reputation - so bye bye.

And lastly, don't ever insult me again. It doesn't get your point across and doesn't make your case... at all.

The only insulting thing in this thread is your lack of red wings knowledge. If you had watched hockey for more than the last 3 or 4 years (which is apparently the extent of your knowledge if you didn't even know who Probert or Klima were) you would know that Chris Chelios has been renowned around the NHL for over 20 years as being the mouthiest player in hockey, you would also know that other than Claude Lemieux, up until he was traded to the Wings he was the most hated player in the league by Red Wings fans.

Also, i hate to break it to you but McCarty had an alcohol problem during most of his first tenure with the Wings, only when his level of play dropped off did we not bring him back, this organization has proven it is willing to look past certain flaws n people as long as they produce , that would explain holding on to Klima, Probert, McCarty etc. There is nothing wrong with this but don't try to paint the picture that all of the Red Wings have to be sunday school teachers or the organization gets rid of them, because it is simply not true.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

The only insulting thing in this thread is your lack of red wings knowledge. If you had watched hockey for more than the last 3 or 4 years (which is apparently the extent of your knowledge if you didn't even know who Probert or Klima were) you would know that Chris Chelios has been renowned around the NHL for over 20 years as being the mouthiest player in hockey, you would also know that other than Claude Lemieux, up until he was traded to the Wings he was the most hated player in the league by Red Wings fans.

Also, i hate to break it to you but McCarty had an alcohol problem during most of his first tenure with the Wings, only when his level of play dropped off did we not bring him back, this organization has proven it is willing to look past certain flaws n people as long as they produce , that would explain holding on to Klima, Probert, McCarty etc. There is nothing wrong with this but don't try to paint the picture that all of the Red Wings have to be sunday school teachers or the organization gets rid of them, because it is simply not true.

I wasn't trying to paint a picture. We're obviously not going to agree on this so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't feel that Crosby, as of right now, is the type of person who should wear the winged wheel. You feel differently. Nothing wrong with that - but I see no reason to start jabbing at each other over it.

[Rivalred 630]

Cheli's opinion of the Wings:

[Pensfan 0]

This thread makes me VERY sad panda.

It's enough to admit that Crosby has considerable talent. I'm no idiot. I know that the guy is going to be a monster on the ice. I just plain old do not like him. I think there's a certain caliber of person it takes to wear the winged wheel - and I don't think that Crosby is that type of person. I don't think it's just immaturity. For those of you excusing his actions by saying he's only 21, stop. I'm 20 years old and there's nothing more irritating than somebody excusing my ignorance or immaturity because I'm young. That's absolutely no reason to give someone a pass. At 21, he should know better. Hell, at 20, I should know better. Maybe in a few years, he'll change and I'd be comfortable enough to say sure - join our crew. But right now? No. I don't think he's the caliber of person I'd want in a Red Wings sweater.

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

[Rivalred 630]

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

This is true. Crosby is scrutinized very closely and to be honest, I would not want to be in that situation.

10 points to gryffndor.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Rivalred

[Ms_Hockey 0]

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

If he can't handle the pressure, he shouldn't be in a position to. Plain and simple.

[uk_redwing 495]

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

Since when did the National Hockey League's Pittsburgh Penguins become the National Crosby League's Crosby Crosby's?

[Rivalred 630]

If he can't handle the pressure, he shouldn't be in a position to. Plain and simple.

It is called a learning process. Everyone goes through it, just some quicker than others. With experience gains knowledge. People learn by mistakes.

[Holmstrom96 347]

Maltby isn't a good diver anymore, so we could use Crosby.

[Rivalred 630]

Since when did the National Hockey League's Pittsburgh Penguins become the National Crosby League's Crosby Crosby's?

Have you not seen NHL Commercials or Gary over the last few yrs?

[Kwame_Kilpatrick 0]

crosby is no longer the face off nhl. after he was in injury last year ovechkin took over with the 65 goals. ovechkin is the face of the nhl now

[Pensfan 0]

If he can't handle the pressure, he shouldn't be in a position to. Plain and simple.

He had this kind of pressure before even being drafted.

"The kid who will save the Penguins organization from bankruptcy and relocation."

"The kid who will be just as good as Mario."

"The kid who will bring hockey to a new generation of fans."

"The next great one."

He never asked for any of it, but I think he's handling it quite well. You should know though, being the same age and all.

[SergeiIsMyHero 0]

Okay i have to respond to this, because almost nothing you said is correct......

1. He would be better with the Wings then he is with the Pens, due to the players around him, he would certainly increase his point total, apparently you don't realize that most of the 2nd tier guys that have had success on the Wings due to the many 1st tier guys they'vre played with. This has helped out Franzen, Hudler, and Holmstrom's career especially

2. Not only does Crosby make everyone around him better, but he's known for it juast as much (probably more) than Z and Pav. He was having problems meshing with his wingers because most of the year he was playing with Pascal Dupuis, a bona fide 3rd liner, and a bruiser in Matt Cooke who wouldn't even make most of the teams in this league. It would be the equivalent of sticking Datsyuk with Downey and Maltby and still having him put up 100 points....very impressive.

2. Crosby is anything but immature, he has been expected to be one of the faces of the NHL, and the captain of an NHL team all by the time he turned 19. He was the first captain in NHL history to lead a team to the Cup finals as a 20 year old, and he puts up 100 points season to boot! He is extremely mature.

3.Take off the rose colored classes for a second and realize that Maltby is hated for his play as the one guy already said and Chelios did not change at all from when he came to Chicago, he just doesn't play as much anymore so he has less oppurtunities to pull the crap he used to....Also in 2 of the 3 fights Crosby has got into he has been sticking up for teammates, which is the sign of a good leader, I love him to death and he's still the best captain ever, but Stevie Y never did much of that......

4. obviously we cant take him due to the cap but strictly speaking if you really would take Hossa over Crosby, then i would hope my team gets to play yours because you obviously have no idea how to pick a hockey team. In terms of all around play, Crosby is the 2nd best player in the NHL behind Pav. I love the Red Wings as much as anybody but the short sighted ignorance that many of you seem to have is ridiculous.....this is a no brainer question

AGREE!

#3 Crosby immature? False. He's the youngest captain in penguin history and they didn't just give him it for scoring a lot of points...

[Booster313 138]

This is such an obvious answer.

YES..anyone with half a brain would take Crosby as a Red Wing. No bad blood, years of competition, do right hate for a player is going to sway the decision. If you can have a player like Crosby you take him and if you say otherwise you are lying.

The real question should be, if you had to give up a Dats, Z, Hossa, Lidstrom, Franzen...etc to have Crosby on the team would you? Now the answer is a lot less obvious. Welcome to the salary cap.

Pre Cap era...signed as a FA...Get er done Kenny!

[Ms_Hockey 0]

He had this kind of pressure before even being drafted.

"The kid who will save the Penguins organization from bankruptcy and relocation."

"The kid who will be just as good as Mario."

"The kid who will bring hockey to a new generation of fans."

"The next great one."

He never asked for any of it, but I think he's handling it quite well. You should know though, being the same age and all.

I never said it was his fault that he's getting the attention that he does. And me being the same age really has nothing to do with it. I don't think his age excuses his actions.

If you can't handle it, don't put yourself in a position to be faced with it. If he really wanted to, he could tell Bettman he doesn't want to be the NHL's posterboy.. but he won't. You think he's handling it well, and I'm not saying he's not. I just think he has a lot to learn.

[Echolalia 2,961]

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

I'm sure she's quite familiar with that having been a valued member of LGW for some time now.

Anyway, as much as I respect Crosby's offensive talents, I would not like him on this team for a number of reasons. First of all I believe Holland can do better for the organization with the money that Crosby earns (ie Franzen + Fillpulla + Osgood + small extra $$ = Crosby's current caphit); secondly, his defensive game is flawed and the Wings are a defense-first organization. I like to point out Zetterberg's defensive play on the 5-on-3 last year as the perfect example of what the Wings brass ideally likes from their top forwards. Thirdly, he has a hot head and as a result, has a tendency to take stupid penalties. He has been getting better at this, but again, that's not Wings' hockey, and I feel he still has a bit more to learn, for the good of his team, regardless of whether he has the weight of the world on him or not. Nobody will point that out as a valid excuse ten years from now. Fans will only remember Stanley cup or no Stanley cup.

[Rivalred 630]

I never said it was his fault that he's getting the attention that he does. And me being the same age really has nothing to do with it. I don't think his age excuses his actions.

If you can't handle it, don't put yourself in a position to be faced with it. If he really wanted to, he could tell Bettman he doesn't want to be the NHL's posterboy.. but he won't. You think he's handling it well, and I'm not saying he's not. I just think he has a lot to learn.

Age has a lot to do it with. I would use some very solid examples, but will not out of mutual respect.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

When was the last time you had the weight of a city, organization, and possibly the entire NHL on your shoulders? Not to mention, a fine toothed comb going over every single word that comes out of your mouth looking for anything to turn on you. Your superiority complex is ridiculous. Just stop.

While it's true that he's under that pressure, it's not like he has trouble making the grade on this ice- his incredible level of talent and dedication makes up for that (hell, his skating alone contributes to a huge chunk of his success). Really, as you've alluded to it's simply his off-ice soundbites that makes the difference.

When you make as much money as he does you have to accept that there's a different level of scrutiny that comes with that. His NHL salary likely amounts to less than his endorsement income, so he's definitely stupid, filthy rich. Considering the kinds of cars he drives around in Halifax I can tell you it's not all in a piggy bank

My point is this- he isn't a child. He's a grown man that gets paid insane amounts of money to compensate him for the difficulties associated with having this level of attention focused on him. You'll have to forgive me if I expect him to be held to the exact same standards as other superstars in this league. Note that I'm not reaming him for his acts of immaturity, rather I'm saying he has to man up to them just like the rest of us do. His behaviour during the press-conferences after games in the Finals is a good example. His posturing and whining about phantom obstruction calls was 100% driven by Terrian's terrible coaching choices, but he still said it and he still has to expect to answer to people who question his judgment in whining about those things. The Wings had plenty of terrible non-calls against them (Datsyuk being pulled down just before he shot the puck into the empty net in game 6 being one of those ridiculous non-calls). Every team could list a bunch of calls the refs missed- that's just something you have to accept will happen.

My point is this- Crosby receieves adequate compensation for the troubles associated with being a super star. He's a grown man and an NHL veteran at this point (as crazy as it is to say that, he is almost up to 300 NHL games)- he can't hide behind his age or inexperience.

Edit: (Torry) Spelling

Edited April 27, 2009 by Drake_Marcus