Holland: Rafalski 'doubtful' for Game 3

[redwashington2000 42]

What in the world Rafi did with his lower body ??? Son of a gun or better said Mother FFFF>>>> how come when he is needed the most he is leting as down??

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Sammy is curiously inhibited on the power play... he really, really doesn't like to shoot it from the point, which is basically the opposite of his behavior as a forward. It defeats the purpose of putting him up there with his advantage in handedness. This is an old problem for him and this team, but the Wings are more capable of remedying it now than in the past.

Not necessarily. While I agree its important to have guys on the point that can get the puck through to the goalie, its just as important to QB the forwards. Having a RH/LH combo not only helps set up the other Dman with a good shot (in this case Lids), but it gives you better passing options and holding capabilities.

I agree this is an old problem for the Wings and they may be more capable of remedying the heavy shot aspect of the problem now, but until another RH'ed player that can fit the bill enters the Wings lineup, this is what its gonna be.

[redwashington2000 42]

Let's not! This is 2009, not 2007! I hate that people are trying to compare '07 to '09 when neither team is the same.

1st, I don't recall a stud named Ericsson on 2007's roster.

2nd, Kronwall is now more developed and makes our D even more dangerous then 2007.

3rd, Ducks don't have the '07 depth.

4th, Wings are currently a *much-MUCH better team than 2007 roster.

Please people, STOP with the ignorant 2007 vs 2009 comparisons, it's ridiculous!

We are hoping their top guys will be tired how about our top defense guys???? What will happen is our depth will not help as because we will have 5 tired defenseman.

[rick zombo 3,739]

You know what really sucks the crank about all of this?

Everyone was talking about the defensive depth all year. How we have 8-9 guys who are all top 6 guys.

Well, 2 of them are hurt, leaving Detroit with 7 "NHL calibre" defensemen. Only Babcock is scared to play 2 of them (Chelios and Meech) and rightfully so. Defensive depth me arse.

I could sure go for some Corey Cross right about now.

[stevkrause 1,247]

You know what really sucks the crank about all of this?

Everyone was talking about the defensive depth all year. How we have 8-9 guys who are all top 6 guys.

Well, 2 of them are hurt, leaving Detroit with 7 "NHL calibre" defensemen. Only Babcock is scared to play 2 of them (Chelios and Meech) and rightfully so. Defensive depth me arse.

I could sure go for some Corey Cross right about now.

ok, here's the thing... we have 5 d-men that anyone else in the league would kill for and that's WITH 2 being down ... yes that is depth... take away 2 top d-men from any other team in the league and they're down to 3 d-men at best that their coach is TRULY comfortable with... most teams in this league have 4 top tier d-men at best and fill out that 3rd pairing with what we consider our scraps on a DAILY basis... with everyone healthy, we arguably have 3 top pairings...

Edited May 4, 2009 by stevkrause

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Not necessarily. While I agree its important to have guys on the point that can get the puck through to the goalie, its just as important to QB the forwards. Having a RH/LH combo not only helps set up the other Dman with a good shot (in this case Lids), but it gives you better passing options and holding capabilities.

I recognize that, and yet Sammy hasn't been as effective in that role as even Stuart has in his limited time there. Sammy just does not have a good hockey sense up there to run the PP, and handedness doesn't trump that. Lidstrom and Stuart have provided a good one-two up there as lefties, and in times passed Lidstrom and Schneider performed well, too.

Seeing as the only option for Mike at the moment would be to put Ericsson on there, even with the confidence he's shown in him, I don't think he's ready to put a rookie up there on the power play. I'm not really sure why all of this has come to a head all of the sudden (perhaps as part of the obligatory "omg we lost" frenzy), but once Rafalski gets healthy, there's no compelling reason why Sammy shouldn't be replaced with Stuart up on the second unit. That it won't happen, as you indeed indicated, is a tribute to Mike's love affair with Sammy.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I recognize that, and yet Sammy hasn't been as effective in that role as even Stuart has in his limited time there. Sammy just does not have a good hockey sense up there to run the PP, and handedness doesn't trump that. Lidstrom and Stuart have provided a good one-two up there as lefties, and in times passed Lidstrom and Schneider performed well, too.

Seeing as the only option for Mike at the moment would be to put Ericsson on there, even with the confidence he's shown in him, I don't think he's ready to put a rookie up there on the power play. I'm not really sure why all of this has come to a head all of the sudden (perhaps as part of the obligatory "omg we lost" frenzy), but once Rafalski gets healthy, there's no compelling reason why Sammy shouldn't be replaced with Stuart up on the second unit. That it won't happen, as you indeed indicated, is a tribute to Mike's love affair with Sammy.

Are we seriously going to take the goal that Stuart got and use that as evidence that he's already more effective? I can see someone arguing for Stuart if he had shot the puck and it deflected in but I wouldn't really think the goal that was scored yesterday would be evidence of "how much more effective" he is than Sammy.

It's no shot on Stewie, just calling a spade a spade.

[esteef 2,679]

Let's not! This is 2009, not 2007! I hate that people are trying to compare '07 to '09 when neither team is the same.

1st, I don't recall a stud named Ericsson on 2007's roster.

2nd, Kronwall is now more developed and makes our D even more dangerous then 2007.

3rd, Ducks don't have the '07 depth.

4th, Wings are currently a *much-MUCH better team than 2007 roster.

Please people, STOP with the ignorant 2007 vs 2009 comparisons, it's ridiculous!

OR, the guy was just pointing out that we're missing two of our top defensemen, just like 07. Settle down man.

esteef

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Are we seriously going to take the goal that Stuart got and use that as evidence that he's already more effective? I can see someone arguing for Stuart if he had shot the puck and it deflected in but I wouldn't really think the goal that was scored yesterday would be evidence of "how much more effective" he is than Sammy.

I was more thinking the nice PP goal he scored late in the season on one of his rare trips out there with the man advantage (I don't exactly remember why he was out there at all, but I remember the shot and the goal) and the nifty fake shot and pass to Nick for the goal in Game 1; and generally just appearing to be more impressive and willing to shoot on the power play -- for example, Hudler's PP goal against Columbus, where Stewie loaded up and missed the net but Hudler got the carom off the backboards and scored (again, I'm not entirely sure what he was doing out there).

Edited May 4, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[titanium2 867]

QUESTION

(Potentially stupid question)

I know it's not the same as the NHL by any stretch of the imagination, but when I played just for fun I had a lot of friends who were ambidextrous with their stick handling. Is it just not possible to be that way at the NHL level? For Junior to practice right-handed in the off season?

I mean, Sammy is actually left handed. He just shoots right handed.

Edited May 4, 2009 by titanium2

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I was more thinking the nice PP goal he scored late in the season on one of his rare trips out there with the man advantage (I don't exactly remember why he was out there at all, but I remember the shot and the goal) and the nifty fake shot and pass to Nick for the goal in Game 1; and generally just appearing to be more impressive and willing to shoot on the power play -- for example, Hudler's PP goal against Columbus, where Stewie loaded up and missed the net but Hudler got the carom off the backboards and scored (again, I'm not entirely sure what he was doing out there).

I guess the bottom line is until Babs is willing to veer from the RH/LH combo he likes to use this is what we're going to see. I agree there are more effective players than Sammy in certain areas, but there's also plenty to be said about the RH/LH combo Sammy brings to the table and what it opens up.

Nice debate.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I guess the bottom line is until Babs is willing to veer from the RH/LH combo he likes to use this is what we're going to see. I agree there are more effective players than Sammy in certain areas, but there's also plenty to be said about the RH/LH combo and what it opens up.

While we all know Mike has done a tremendous job but he is subject to his own biases. I know it's easy for me to sit here and say he's making a mistake (says the armchair coach that knows f***all about coaching the game), but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

One thing I did notice while making a quick review of Sammy's PP goals this year is they are almost exclusively on plays where he sneaks down to the circle and gets the good feed and let's it go. He appears to be much more comfortable shooting down low than he is up high, and being one of the rare right handers on the team with any offensive instincts I'd be much happier with him on the left wall ripping one timers than up on the blue line passing on shots. Says the genius armchair coach once again.

Nice debate.

As always, NFM, you are a worthy adversary.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

While we all know Mike has done a tremendous job but he is subject to his own biases. I know it's easy for me to sit here and say he's making a mistake (says the armchair coach that knows f***all about coaching the game), but that's a risk I'm willing to take.

One thing I did notice while making a quick review of Sammy's PP goals this year is they are almost exclusively on plays where he sneaks down to the circle and gets the good feed and let's it go. He appears to be much more comfortable shooting down low than he is up high, and being one of the rare right handers on the team with any offensive instincts I'd be much happier with him on the left wall ripping one timers than up on the blue line passing on shots. Says the genius armchair coach once again.

As always, NFM, you are a worthy adversary.

Which makes sense though too given that he's a natural forward. Its quite obvious he's not a defenseman because his shot selection and the subsequent placement of those shots at the point are second to almost anyone.

As for the side he plays....it goes both ways. Obviously he can hold better playing the right wall, but you take away the one-timer in that situation.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Hearing that Rafalski won't play in game 3 makes me think the following:

f*** my life.

[clutchngrab 12]

Let's not! This is 2009, not 2007! I hate that people are trying to compare '07 to '09 when neither team is the same.

1st, I don't recall a stud named Ericsson on 2007's roster.

2nd, Kronwall is now more developed and makes our D even more dangerous then 2007.

3rd, Ducks don't have the '07 depth.

4th, Wings are currently a *much-MUCH better team than 2007 roster.

Please people, STOP with the ignorant 2007 vs 2009 comparisons, it's ridiculous!

Lets see: in 2007 #2 defenseman was out. An offensive defenseman named Schneider. In 2009 #2 defenseman out. An offensive defenseman named Rafalski.

In 2007 #4 defenseman named Kronwall was out. In 2009 #5 defenseman Lilja is out.

My point really was that 2 out of the top 6 d-men were/are out.

I wasn't trying to necessarily correlate the results of that series to this one.

And as far as being *MUCH* better that only holds true if Datsyuk and Hossa decide to show up

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ya I miss Lilja's looking into the sky at God while we fish the puck out of our own net. The problem with Lilja is he doensn't play like a big man. I remember Roberts chasing him into the corner and Lilja's got this terrified look on his face, gets levelled and the puck squirts loose for a Pittsburgh goal. He was like a deer in headlights.

Rafalski we miss no doubt about it.

That isn't a fair characterization of Lilja this season. He's the only d-man that got better defensively between last season and this season.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Kindl anywhere near ready

j/k, but is he?

Nope. He's still terrible defensively and inconsistent offensively. He looked really good at the start of this season, but slipped back into his old ways after Christmas.

[Doc Holiday 0]

******* SUCK IT UP RAFALSKI

[Husker BigGuy 0]

Erickson has really stepped up. So has Helm.

When Helm was in for a moment on the PP for Holmstrom yesterday, I thought Babcock had seen the light for that particular game. Helm had the kind of energy that we needed yesterday.

How bad can the GR defense be?

Watching Chelios out there is like watching paint dry.

Give somebody his shot and see if he can step up.

Hey, even bring up Villie Leino and let Hank Z play for Rafalski. He could surely get it done.

Losing Rafalski has made this matchup with the Ducks an even one. That means whoever takes 2 of three in Anaheim can win it.

[Mike 0]

I am really hoping that doubtful turns into he's playing. The Wings need to be rolling 3 defensive lines, especially after game #2, otherwise our defense will be overplayed and their quality of play will decrease. Either Rafalski comes back or Babcock starts to play Cheli more. We need 6 d-men, not 5.

[titanium2 867]

I am really hoping that doubtful turns into he's playing. The Wings need to be rolling 3 defensive lines, especially after game #2, otherwise our defense will be overplayed and their quality of play will decrease. Either Rafalski comes back or Babcock starts to play Cheli more. We need 6 d-men, not 5.

Kenny said that he will play sometime this series. After Game 1, the feeling was the sooner the better. After Game 2 and the stupid penalties by Cheli and Lebs, the feeling is more like, ok, Now! No? How about now? You know?

[Wingsallwin 0]

As much as I want Rafalski back to the series in game 3, it would be better if he comes back with full health. If he comes back game 3 with a horrible condition, he will screw up the game defensively and not even sure about PP ability.

Before we talk about Rafalski, we have to use ingredients in front of us usefully. I really like the combo Nick and Ericsson and nothing against Kronwall and Stuart. However, as I watched the 2 games, when our 3rd pair was on the ice, I always felt nervous because as Getzlaf line contains around 27 minutes ice time, it means that line also can play against our 3rd defensive pair. Lebda, Meech, Chellios, or whoever should be supposed to step up.

I think, sorry for Chellios, but he has to sit down for this series or rest of the playoff. The Red Wings know they have to play with 6 D-man, not 5 D-man. Besides, if I have to choose either Chellios or Meech, I would go Meech at this point. I would love to follow the amount of experience Chellios has but he cannot play more than 8 minutes. On the other hand, Meech can play for a long time as possible.

[Mike 0]

Kenny said that he will play sometime this series. After Game 1, the feeling was the sooner the better. After Game 2 and the stupid penalties by Cheli and Lebs, the feeling is more like, ok, Now! No? How about now? You know?

It sounds like he just doesn't want the Ducks to find anything out and just assume that Cheli is still playing.

[shoe 165]

here is the audio on that interview... (on the fan590 not 950 lol)

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20090504_133408_7168

[shoe 165]

here is the audio on that interview... (on the fan590 not 950 lol)

http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20090504_133408_7168