ATTA BOY KOPECKY

[norrisnick 1]

I agree with NN. The way the game is called today, being brave and tough and willing to risk a busted face for your team does not result in anything but penalties. In today's game, you can ice a team of gutless weaklings who are too scared to fight anybody, and there's nothing a tough guy can do about it. While I hate that the Wings are mostlt cowards when it comes to fighting, a fair portion of the blame has to rest on the league's shoulders. The instigator rule provides the protection to the weak that strong, brave men provided in years past. Tomas Holmstrom would not be able to stand in front of andy Moog, Dave Semenko would have killed him. Back in the day, a guy had to be able to fight for the ice he occupied, it just isn't true anymore.

I realize you like to rile up the kiddies with the hyperbole, but I have to make it abundantly clear for you that you don't know s*** about s***. Fighting isn't brave and tough. Doing what Holmstrom does night and night out is brave and tough. Playing like Yzerman played is brave and tough. Semenko could have done as he pleased, but Homer would have gotten right back up and right back at the top of the crease. For the same reason that Semenko would have tried to keep him away from the crease, because without that battle he wouldnt' be able to stay in the NHL.

[Guest Crymson]

Aye. I don't care if he loses the fight; he was willing to throw them down, and more importantly his actions effectively put their #3 defenseman in the box for five minutes. If the Ducks want to allow our #12 forward to drag their #3 defenseman into the sin-bin with him, that's fine by me!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Then why isn't Parros around doing any pushing and shoving? Being the biggest baddest Duck, you'd think Carlyle would want to use that to his advantage? Oh wait! Parros only played 1 game against us in '07 too. 37 playoff games by the Ducks during Parros' tenure and he only dressed for 13 of them. That doesn't seem right...

Last time they didn't need Parros. If memory serves they had Shawn Thornton, Travis Moen and Brad May. So there you go.

As for why Parros doesn't play now. What would be the point of that? It'd be like dropping a second nuke on Hiroshima 5 minutes after the 1st one.

Let's see, who do the ducks have that can fight?

Getzlaf

Perry

Brown

Pronger

Beauchemin

Brookbank

Aside from Ericsson, pretty much all of these guys are better fighters than anyone in our lineup. And outside of Big E, Hossa and Franzen, all of these guys are bigger than everybody on our roster.

You can't deny they are bigger, stronger, tougher and better at the physical game than we are. That's their game and that's what they should play. They can beat us that way. They've done it before.

I love how people think the Wings can be just as physical as the Ducks. That's ridiculous. Helm is pretty much the only guy out there throwing hits that are more than just something to impede the opposing player. Stuart and Kronner can but haven't done much of it.

Look at the play down low, watch our guys hit. It's pathetic. The only big hit Cleary has ever thrown was on Phaneuf. Sammy doesn't hurt anyone. Maltby isn't that effective.

Watch our down low forecheck, half the time our guys skate right past the player who just had the puck. Last night Z had a chance to put the body on Getzlaf down low, Getzlaf put the puck back behind the net, Z skated right by him. you know that if that was on the other end of the ice Getzlaf is putting a body on somebody, and at 6-4 and 220 he's going in high and hard.

I'll take our style versus the Ducks any day of the week. I'd just prefer we had some bigger players who were more pugilistic and more adept at handling themselves.

Seriously, it's great that our guys step up and don't back down. But look what happens. You have Dan Clearly fighting Chris Pronger. You have Getlaf trying to manhandle Z and Franzen. You have Pronger with his eyes crossed trying to kill Datsyuk in that last scrum and only Nick Lidstrom standing in the way.

We will never be as good at playing the physical game as the Ducks. They outsize us.

I just hope we beat the f***ers.

[Reds4Life 51]

Fighting (= Hugging in today's NHL) is incredibly overrated. Players like Parros are useless, they can't play at all, they get 5 minutes a game, maybe.

Wings are weaklings? Are you ******* kidding? Hugging is not tough, it is boring, overrated, and useless.

[Guest micah]

I realize you like to rile up the kiddies with the hyperbole, but I have to make it abundantly clear for you that you don't know s*** about s***. Fighting isn't brave and tough. Doing what Holmstrom does night and night out is brave and tough. Playing like Yzerman played is brave and tough. Semenko could have done as he pleased, but Homer would have gotten right back up and right back at the top of the crease. For the same reason that Semenko would have tried to keep him away from the crease, because without that battle he wouldnt' be able to stay in the NHL.

I don't deny that Holmstrom has a certain brand of toughness - despite his unwillingness to fight and his extra pads, he does take up a dangerous piece of real estate night in and night out and does it well - I give him props for that - explain exactly how fighting the biggest, strongest guys in the league does not require bravery or toughness though...

LOL. Would Homer have got "right back up" the way Lilja did?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I realize you like to rile up the kiddies with the hyperbole, but I have to make it abundantly clear for you that you don't know s*** about s***. Fighting isn't brave and tough. Doing what Holmstrom does night and night out is brave and tough. Playing like Yzerman played is brave and tough. Semenko could have done as he pleased, but Homer would have gotten right back up and right back at the top of the crease. For the same reason that Semenko would have tried to keep him away from the crease, because without that battle he wouldnt' be able to stay in the NHL.

This is why LGW is so much better than that stuffy redwingscentral.com.

Even the mods don't care about forum guidelines.

Edited May 8, 2009 by GordieSid&Ted

[therock48880 14]

Last time they didn't need Parros. If memory serves they had Shawn Thornton, Travis Moen and Brad May. So there you go.

As for why Parros doesn't play now. What would be the point of that? It'd be like dropping a second nuke on Hiroshima 5 minutes after the 1st one.

Let's see, who do the ducks have that can fight?

Getzlaf

Perry

Brown

Pronger

Beauchemin

Brookbank

Aside from Ericsson, pretty much all of these guys are better fighters than anyone in our lineup. And outside of Big E, Hossa and Franzen, all of these guys are bigger than everybody on our roster.

You can't deny they are bigger, stronger, tougher and better at the physical game than we are. That's their game and that's what they should play. They can beat us that way. They've done it before.

I love how people think the Wings can be just as physical as the Ducks. That's ridiculous. Helm is pretty much the only guy out there throwing hits that are more than just something to impede the opposing player. Stuart and Kronner can but haven't done much of it.

Look at the play down low, watch our guys hit. It's pathetic. The only big hit Cleary has ever thrown was on Phaneuf. Sammy doesn't hurt anyone. Maltby isn't that effective.

Watch our down low forecheck, half the time our guys skate right past the player who just had the puck. Last night Z had a chance to put the body on Getzlaf down low, Getzlaf put the puck back behind the net, Z skated right by him. you know that if that was on the other end of the ice Getzlaf is putting a body on somebody, and at 6-4 and 220 he's going in high and hard.

I'll take our style versus the Ducks any day of the week. I'd just prefer we had some bigger players who were more pugilistic and more adept at handling themselves.

Seriously, it's great that our guys step up and don't back down. But look what happens. You have Dan Clearly fighting Chris Pronger. You have Getlaf trying to manhandle Z and Franzen. You have Pronger with his eyes crossed trying to kill Datsyuk in that last scrum and only Nick Lidstrom standing in the way.

We will never be as good at playing the physical game as the Ducks. They outsize us.

I just hope we beat the f***ers.

Perfectly stated.

Your post reminded me of Marchant saying they get hit harder in practice than they get hit by the Wings.

[Turretin 0]

One of the biggest mistakes a team can make is not playing their game. The minute you let your opponent dictate your style of play is the minute that you give him an advantage. He has experience and natural abilities that favor that style (after all, that's why it is his style), you probably don't.

For all the Wings fans who want more fighting and think it would make a better team: I disagree, but fine. Assuming it would make a better team, you don't do it with this roster. You need a different roster, not a different philosophy. This roster isn't built for that, and trying to turn this roster in to that is going to lead to more losses, not less.

QED

[therock48880 14]

I realize you like to rile up the kiddies with the hyperbole, but I have to make it abundantly clear for you that you don't know s*** about s***. Fighting isn't brave and tough. Doing what Holmstrom does night and night out is brave and tough. Playing like Yzerman played is brave and tough. Semenko could have done as he pleased, but Homer would have gotten right back up and right back at the top of the crease. For the same reason that Semenko would have tried to keep him away from the crease, because without that battle he wouldnt' be able to stay in the NHL.

This coming from the guy with a ufc fight as an avatar.

[Turretin 0]

I don't deny that Holmstrom has a certain brand of toughness - despite his unwillingness to fight and his extra pads, he does take up a dangerous piece of real estate night in and night out and does it well - I give him props for that - explain exactly how fighting the biggest, strongest guys in the league does not require bravery or toughness though...

LOL. Would Homer have got "right back up" the way Lilja did?

I like how you bag on Holmstrom's "extra pads." I don't even know you and I can already say with complete confidence: You would not last for 1 game in Holmstrom's role, let alone a full season, or career. I am laughing at you.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Your crush on me is flattering.

What does that even mean? My assumption would be not much, just another pathetic attempt to get away from discussing the facts since you can't. Nice dodge and way to throw something irrational and irrelevant to cover up ignorance.

Have I ever said (except when I suggesting sending Pavel Down to GR for conditioning and bringing Downey up - whisch was clearly in jest) that Downey (or Parros for that matter) should be playing in this series?

If they are so wonderful why shouldn't they play. You brag on guys that can't and won't play in this series and trash nonstop guys that can and will.

Also, for the record I have no idea who NFM is, if he's ever played hockey or been to a hockey game. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to people on boards, I'm more interested in the topics discussed than the posters involved. Sorry. I see NFM is in Green Bay, I'm guessing he ain't Bobby Shea.

Again more bull crap that you throw out there. You rarely discuss the topic you try to turn them all into discussions about fighting rather than discussing what they were actually about. You're right you have no idea if NFM has been to a hockey game but you are the one that brought it up and rhetorically and moronically asked if he had ever been to a game. You act so offended that I called you out on what you said. In case you can't remember what you just typed here it is

You ever been to a hockey game?

You asked it not for a genuine answer but to be condescending, rude, and disparaging. Don't get pissy and act all offended when you get called out for your jack ass behavior.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Perfectly stated.

Your post reminded me of Marchant saying they get hit harder in practice than they get hit by the Wings.

Is that true? Did he really say that? Wow! If he did, that's some serious smack talk. Where I come from, that would be akin to calling the Wings a bunch of fecking f*gg&ts.

[HkyTwn 5]

One of the biggest mistakes a team can make is not playing their game. The minute you let your opponent dictate your style of play is the minute that you give him an advantage. He has experience and natural abilities that favor that style (after all, that's why it is his style), you probably don't.

For all the Wings fans who want more fighting and think it would make a better team: I disagree, but fine. Assuming it would make a better team, you don't do it with this roster. You need a different roster, not a different philosophy. This roster isn't built for that, and trying to turn this roster in to that is going to lead to more losses, not less.

QED

QFT. I completely agree.

[esteef 2,679]

Then why isn't Parros around doing any pushing and shoving? Being the biggest baddest Duck, you'd think Carlyle would want to use that to his advantage? Oh wait! Parros only played 1 game against us in '07 too. 37 playoff games by the Ducks during Parros' tenure and he only dressed for 13 of them. That doesn't seem right...

Because Carlyle's a dumbass? He doesn't play EVERY game so that makes him useless?

Technically, the Ducks can push the Wings around without Parros, but him being in would certainly help the Ducks. Get in Ericsson's face, smack guys around, all this would fire the Ducks up. That's the game they play and the one that works against Detroit. (see 2007). They have less guys like that on their roster now with May, Moen and Thornton (hell even Kunitz) gone. Parros would help in that regard.

I'm just loving all these fighters this year getting good playoff ice time and NOT being detriments to their teams as some here would have people believe. Fighter on team =/= instant penalty, loss.

esteef

edit: Gordie beat me to it!

Edited May 8, 2009 by esteef

[Guest micah]

I like how you bag on Holmstrom's "extra pads." I don't even know you and I can already say with complete confidence: You would not last for 1 game in Holmstrom's role, let alone a full season, or career. I am laughing at you.

Glad I could brighten your day!

It's true that I probably couldn't do Homer's job - if I could, I would. Dude makes more money than I do:(

[norrisnick 1]

I don't deny that Holmstrom has a certain brand of toughness - despite his unwillingness to fight and his extra pads, he does take up a dangerous piece of real estate night in and night out and does it well - I give him props for that - explain exactly how fighting the biggest, strongest guys in the league does not require bravery or toughness though...

LOL. Would Homer have got "right back up" the way Lilja did?

Same reason you think the Wings are a bunch of scared *******.

I never said Homer would be dumb enough to fight Semenko. Just that he'd let Dave blow his cool and the set up again. Very likely during the ensuing PP.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Is that true? Did he really say that? Wow! If he did, that's some serious smack talk. Where I come from, that would be akin to calling the Wings a bunch of fecking f*gg&ts.

He joked about it after scroring in Triple OT with Pierre on NBC. I dont really care what the Ducks say, the Wings have guys that hit. Helm, Cleary, Stuart, Maltby, Datsyuk, I mean guys like Hossa and Franzen should be smashing bodies but they dont, nothing you can do about that.

[Pasha13 0]

About the topic at hand...I hated the timing of that fight...Carcillo vs. Talbot turned out to be a horrible idea...I don't think any of the hits in that fight were devastating, but Koko didn't land a single one for himself...either way, we're lucky the momentum didn't swing...and I appreciate that Kopecky fought him like a man (gloves, sticks, and helmets gone before a hit was thrown)...he had to know he was taking one for the team...had it been a thug like Parros, I would've been irate...in summation, I hope we pick our spots better next time, but if they wanna trade their key players for our scrubs, I'll take it more times than not.

[norrisnick 1]

This is why LGW is so much better than that stuffy redwingscentral.com.

Even the mods don't care about forum guidelines.

"Curse words can, at times, be an effective way of translating some emotion into a post"

[Reds4Life 51]

Because Carlyle's a dumbass? He doesn't play EVERY game so that makes him useless?

Technically, the Ducks can push the Wings around without Parros, but him being in would certainly help the Ducks. Get in Ericsson's face, smack guys around, all this would fire the Ducks up. That's the game they play and the one that works against Detroit. (see 2007). They have less guys like that on their roster now with May, Moen and Thornton (hell even Kunitz) gone. Parros would help in that regard.

I'm just loving all these fighters this year getting good playoff ice time and NOT being detriments to their teams as some here would have people believe. Fighter on team =/= instant penalty, loss.

esteef

edit: Gordie beat me to it!

Yeah sure, Ducks beat Wings in 07 because they were mean, tough and they fought every game. Wings depleted defense corps had nothing to do with that.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Last year's road to the Cup was pretty soft and didn't include the Ducks. Just sayin'. If the Ducks really beared down on Detroit like we've seen in the past they could really cause some havoc and IMO is their only chance to win the series.

esteef

No road to the Cup is easy, regardless of the opponent. There's nothing to say the Wings wouldn't have been able to match up with the Ducks last season, and the year before that is still kind of a question mark with missing the number 2 and 3 defenseman. As much as the physical grind was tough for the Wings, the PP not being able to run effectively is what did them in that series.

[norrisnick 1]

This coming from the guy with a ufc fight as an avatar.

Ex-UFC fighter. And notice that he's lying unconscious face first on the canvas.

MMA =/= UFC

[kook_10 1,705]

Perfectly stated.

Your post reminded me of Marchant saying they get hit harder in practice than they get hit by the Wings.

I saw that play with Z and Getzlaf behind the net too, and my heart sank a little bit. That having been said though, they really dont skate past the puck carrier half the time. In fact, I thought they were doing a pretty good job in the offensive zone getting pressure on the puck and sealing off the boards. It isnt always about punishment, its about forcing the offensive team to hasten their decisions with the puck. I dont think the Wings are deluding themselves into thinking they are going to knock anybody through the boards.

Where they really find themselves at a physical disadvantage is defending the cycle in down by their own goal line. Being towards the top of the league in takeaways is all well and good, but when Perry, Getzlaf or Ryan is allowed to just play with the puck along the boards until somebody cuts to the net then a body needs to be put on them. Big Rig is doing very well, but sometimes I think they are just too complacent with "forcing them to the perimeter".

[esteef 2,679]

Yeah sure, Ducks beat Wings in 07 because they were mean, tough and they fought every game. Wings depleted defense corps had nothing to do with that.

Certainly the defenseive injuries played a part, especially when a tough team crashes and bangs you all series.

esteef

[Turretin 0]

About the topic at hand...I hated the timing of that fight...in summation, I hope we pick our spots better next time, but if they wanna trade their key players for our scrubs, I'll take it more times than not.

I agree with this. When you are up 2 late in the game, just keep your cool and try to avoid momentum chaning moments. Now, if it was in the first or second, then I like getting Beauch off of the ice in exchange for our worst forward. The Ericcson-Perry fight was better timed. However, seeing how awesome and necessary Ericcson has been, I am not sure I would want a repeat of that.