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Tatonka

Questions about Hossa and Pittsburg

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The thing I find funny is how much Pens fans rip Hossa saying he sucks because he doesnt show up in the postseason. He was in Pitt for one playoff run.

20 games 12 goals 14 assists 26 points

They are really ripping a guy who was probably their best player last year in the postseason

No, Pens fans are saying he didn't show up THIS post-season.

Your total off-target take is what I find funny. See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You don't even have a grasp of what we're saying, but still you'll speak for us. Hilarious.

Edited by BewareThePenguin

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Let me re-state my stance from another post:

I see apologist type #1 has weighed in now. Frankly I prefer the jokester approach, at least I get a chance at a little chuckle.

On second thought, I did get a little laugh out of this one:

Again, Wings fans who know the team better than Pens fans. Way to speculate, bud. I promise you (without any proof, grains of salt etc.) that Hossa sprouted wings, and monkeys flew out of his butt on the flight to Detroit, which he made without use of a plane.

Wow, now you know what Hoser said behind the scenes to Pens' management. Move over Syliva Browne, there's a new psychic in town now!

What's the NHL by-law on taking little verbal cheap shots at your ex-team on the way out the door btw? Does it say the player must do that, too?

Seriously, the lengths you people will go to defend this guy now that he's one of yours is amazing. Can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a jerk, and be done with it?

Okay, so you're not calling him a "mercenary", but you are accusing him of effectively "tampering" with the Pens' ability to sign free agents. Maybe you should have stuck with the mercenary bit.

First of all, "Hossa" is not "one of ours" at this point any more than he was "one of yours" last June! Wings fans understand this because our fanbase has been making relevant deadline deals since the days when it looked like the Kansas City Penguins were a very real possibility. Your deal for Hossa wasn't fundamentally any different than our 2007 deal for Todd Bertuzzi. At the time, people around the league though that you had OVERPAID for Hossa (even though it was only three scrub prospects and a pick) because you weren't trading for Marian Hossa, you were trading for 2+ months of Marian Hossa's services. That's it.

If Hossa was so dedicated to becoming a Penguin, why didn't you sign in April? You are aware that the Red Wings re-signed Zetterberg and Johan Franzen through basically 2020, right? Were you also aware that it's possible to sign players AFTER the trade deadline? Hossa was going to test the market no matter what, but he was being a good "solider" up until July 1st. That's how the game is played!

And like I've said a million times, if Hossa is wearing a different color shirt after July 1 this year, not a single Wing fan should call him a traitor because this was and always has been a deal about THIS YEAR.

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Wow, where do I begin with this arrogance?

Well first, about that message board thing.... see here we go again, Detroit fans who know more about the Pens than we do. No, contrary to what you think, I didn't need some stinkin' message board -- I, unlike you and your fellow Wings fans, saw all the Hossa interviews on local TV, and read the papers. I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed. (So yeah, I read the "hockey journalists" and all that.) That was pretty much the way he talked all June, spreading roses and perfume about the team. Oh he was just so tickled to be here!

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Any way you look at it, Hossa smells bad here. If he knew he was leaving for Detroit all along, then he just used the Pens for leverage while talking out the other side of his mouth. If he was sincere about how gushy he felt, then he changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans. That's just common decency which would apply to any employee-company relationship. There's a reason companies ask for a two-week notice.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Again, why can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a ******? And be done with it.

I'm going to assume that everything you're telling me is the 100% truth. So what!?!

You don't give a "two-week notice" when your EMPLOYEMENT IS ALREADY SCHEDULED TO END as of 7/1/2008!!! What would the notice be?

Hossa: "Um, Mario, I'm going to be a free agent in July, just so you know."

#66: "Oh crap, we didn't sign you back in April? I thought we did a sign and trade or something. No wonder we were able to get you for Angelo Esposito, two scrubs, and a pick. I thought it was weird that Atlanta had to give up Dany Heatley!"

You always say good things about the club you're with, until you're not with that club any more. Otherwise, you look like a jerk, and jerks don't command the type of trust you're looking for when you're shelling out millions of dollars. Hossa did nothing wrong.

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No, Pens fans are saying he didn't show up THIS post-season.

Your total off-target take is what I find funny. See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You don't even have a grasp of what we're saying, but still you'll speak for us. Hilarious.

(By the way, I respect you for coming here and talking to us, and wish you the best of luck in good sportsmanship for the rest of this series and next year, but this topic does get me fired up)

There are many ways a forward can "show up" that don't appear on a scoresheet. This partially explains how Crosby and Malkin can score eleventy billion points during the Eastern Conference Finals, and then run into difficulties playing against Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who elite-level defensive players. Hossa has been a presence in this playoff both defensively and with his puck control while Datsyuk was out, even if his offensive numbers are lower than expected.

The salary cap is the same for every team. While you compare Hossa's $7.4 million contract to his meager goal production and conclude that it's a dissapointment for the Wings, I doubt they'll lose much sleep over that if his presence contributed to our overall depth and a 2nd consecutive Cup.

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Wow, where do I begin with this arrogance?

Well first, about that message board thing.... see here we go again, Detroit fans who know more about the Pens than we do. No, contrary to what you think, I didn't need some stinkin' message board -- I, unlike you and your fellow Wings fans, saw all the Hossa interviews on local TV, and read the papers. I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed. (So yeah, I read the "hockey journalists" and all that.) That was pretty much the way he talked all June, spreading roses and perfume about the team. Oh he was just so tickled to be here!

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Any way you look at it, Hossa smells bad here. If he knew he was leaving for Detroit all along, then he just used the Pens for leverage while talking out the other side of his mouth. If he was sincere about how gushy he felt, then he changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans. That's just common decency which would apply to any employee-company relationship. There's a reason companies ask for a two-week notice.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Again, why can't you just admit the possibility he acted like a ******? And be done with it.

Since it was you who made the claim that no amount of logic could sway your thoughts I guess this is a futile attempt to speak to an empty space and expect a response. I must be insane because despite this knowledge I am still talking.

My crack about your message board thing is a shot at all Pens fans who claim to have never had knowledge about Hossa wanting to play for Detroit. If you watched TSNs' trade deadline coverage they spoke about Hossa possibly moving to Detroit. In the off season there were many articles written about the connection between Hossa and the Wings (Tomas). Why can you not admit that everyone involved knew that Hossa wanted to play in Detroit?

You did not know, but you mean nothing in the decision process. The GM's, agents, and everyone knew. This invalidates your argument that Hossa cost them a chance to make other trades. They did not make other trades because they had no one to trade. The Pens lost several UFA's last July 1st and were left with only the ability to sign new players. But they have cap issues caused by having 2 superstar young players tied up long term. It is hard to do and yet they are in the finals again, you should be happy.

Hossa was forced to go to the Pens, while there he discovered that it is a good organization with good respectable fans and he had a great time. Once he was permitted to negotiate with the Wings (July 1st) there was very little in the media about him talking with the Pens. I do not know what happens behind closed doors (as you like to point out), but if the media does not talk about it then there was likely not much. I am sure he enjoyed the respect and experience of playing for the Pens and getting so close to the cup. Why would you feel he was lying when he spoke highly of your organization? There is nothing that has happened to make me think he would hate the Pens... explain why you think he lied. By assuming he lied when he said the Pens are a good organization you are then suggesting that you think the Pens are not a good organization. See how ignoring logic can backfire.

He loved playing for the Pens, but he wanted to play with Tomas his friend. If you had a choice to return to a team full of guys you knew for 4 months or to a team where your closest friend plays which would you choose. Tomas had been bragging about the wings to Hossa for years, he did not hate on the Pens he showed some love to the Wings.

The Pens offered less money then the Oilers. I do not recall exactly what it was, but it was lower. The Pens had salary cap issues and could not offer what the Oilers were putting on the table. He left the big money in Edmonton. That is when he made that statement and that has nothing to do with the Pens. If he did not sign in Detroit he would have signed in Edmonton for big money. He would be making lots of cash right now and still not playing for the Pens. He was going to leave, sure no one know for certain where but the money was on the table and he turned it down to choose Detroit. Even a die hard Pens fan must admit that the Wings were a better choice then the Oilers this year.

Decency is how I would describe Hossa. He spoke about how great the Pens are/were to play for and then looked around for offers when his time there was finished. His contract expired July 1st with nothing tying him to Pittsburgh. He then looked at offers from many teams and accepted one with the Wings, the team he had longed to play for. In the end the Pens could not pay what the Oilers offered, and the Wings had Hossa's friend and a tradition of the most successful franchise of the last 15 years to pull him over.

He did not knock the Pens, get over it!

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I'm going to assume that everything you're telling me is the 100% truth. So what!?!

You don't give a "two-week notice" when your EMPLOYEMENT IS ALREADY SCHEDULED TO END as of 7/1/2008!!! What would the notice be?

Hossa: "Um, Mario, I'm going to be a free agent in July, just so you know."

#66: "Oh crap, we didn't sign you back in April? I thought we did a sign and trade or something. No wonder we were able to get you for Angelo Esposito, two scrubs, and a pick. I thought it was weird that Atlanta had to give up Dany Heatley!"

You always say good things about the club you're with, until you're not with that club any more. Otherwise, you look like a jerk, and jerks don't command the type of trust you're looking for when you're shelling out millions of dollars. Hossa did nothing wrong.

One prob, bud -- his current contract with the Pens was schedule to end on that date. That doesn't necessarily mean his term with the Pens is up. If he'd agree beforehand to resign, he's still a Pen regardless. See the diff?

The point of the 2-week notice is just a courtesy -- the spirit of giving your employer a chance to hire somebody new during your transition period while you stay on. Hossa denied that to the Pens by stalling and waiting til the last moment up til 7/1. That's like walking into your boss's office on Thursday at 4:59 p.m. and saying "see ya later bud, I won't be tomorrow 'cuz I quit."

Like I said, Hossa smells bad no matter how you slice this.

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Since it was you who made the claim that no amount of logic could sway your thoughts I guess this is a futile attempt to speak to an empty space and expect a response. I must be insane because despite this knowledge I am still talking.

My crack about your message board thing is a shot at all Pens fans who claim to have never had knowledge about Hossa wanting to play for Detroit. If you watched TSNs' trade deadline coverage they spoke about Hossa possibly moving to Detroit. In the off season there were many articles written about the connection between Hossa and the Wings (Tomas). Why can you not admit that everyone involved knew that Hossa wanted to play in Detroit?

You did not know, but you mean nothing in the decision process. The GM's, agents, and everyone knew. This invalidates your argument that Hossa cost them a chance to make other trades. They did not make other trades because they had no one to trade. The Pens lost several UFA's last July 1st and were left with only the ability to sign new players. But they have cap issues caused by having 2 superstar young players tied up long term. It is hard to do and yet they are in the finals again, you should be happy.

Hossa was forced to go to the Pens, while there he discovered that it is a good organization with good respectable fans and he had a great time. Once he was permitted to negotiate with the Wings (July 1st) there was very little in the media about him talking with the Pens. I do not know what happens behind closed doors (as you like to point out), but if the media does not talk about it then there was likely not much. I am sure he enjoyed the respect and experience of playing for the Pens and getting so close to the cup. Why would you feel he was lying when he spoke highly of your organization? There is nothing that has happened to make me think he would hate the Pens... explain why you think he lied. By assuming he lied when he said the Pens are a good organization you are then suggesting that you think the Pens are not a good organization. See how ignoring logic can backfire.

He loved playing for the Pens, but he wanted to play with Tomas his friend. If you had a choice to return to a team full of guys you knew for 4 months or to a team where your closest friend plays which would you choose. Tomas had been bragging about the wings to Hossa for years, he did not hate on the Pens he showed some love to the Wings.

The Pens offered less money then the Oilers. I do not recall exactly what it was, but it was lower. The Pens had salary cap issues and could not offer what the Oilers were putting on the table. He left the big money in Edmonton. That is when he made that statement and that has nothing to do with the Pens. If he did not sign in Detroit he would have signed in Edmonton for big money. He would be making lots of cash right now and still not playing for the Pens. He was going to leave, sure no one know for certain where but the money was on the table and he turned it down to choose Detroit. Even a die hard Pens fan must admit that the Wings were a better choice then the Oilers this year.

Decency is how I would describe Hossa. He spoke about how great the Pens are/were to play for and then looked around for offers when his time there was finished. His contract expired July 1st with nothing tying him to Pittsburgh. He then looked at offers from many teams and accepted one with the Wings, the team he had longed to play for. In the end the Pens could not pay what the Oilers offered, and the Wings had Hossa's friend and a tradition of the most successful franchise of the last 15 years to pull him over.

He did not knock the Pens, get over it!

Translation: he plays for my team now, he can do no wrong.

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Pens fans are just mad that they got Hoss in a trade for a guy who turned out to be great when he was with another team, and then Hossa left them with nothing to show for their trade. Sucks for them but those are the kind of risks you take when trading players halfway through the season.

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Okay, so you're not calling him a "mercenary", but you are accusing him of effectively "tampering" with the Pens' ability to sign free agents. Maybe you should have stuck with the mercenary bit.

First of all, "Hossa" is not "one of ours" at this point any more than he was "one of yours" last June! Wings fans understand this because our fanbase has been making relevant deadline deals since the days when it looked like the Kansas City Penguins were a very real possibility. Your deal for Hossa wasn't fundamentally any different than our 2007 deal for Todd Bertuzzi. At the time, people around the league though that you had OVERPAID for Hossa (even though it was only three scrub prospects and a pick) because you weren't trading for Marian Hossa, you were trading for 2+ months of Marian Hossa's services. That's it.

If Hossa was so dedicated to becoming a Penguin, why didn't you sign in April? You are aware that the Red Wings re-signed Zetterberg and Johan Franzen through basically 2020, right? Were you also aware that it's possible to sign players AFTER the trade deadline? Hossa was going to test the market no matter what, but he was being a good "solider" up until July 1st. That's how the game is played!

And like I've said a million times, if Hossa is wearing a different color shirt after July 1 this year, not a single Wing fan should call him a traitor because this was and always has been a deal about THIS YEAR.

Again, and for the millionth time -- it's not about him leaving for another team. It's HOW he went about it that's stuck in some people's craws.

You guys are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, so many fans here are delighting in the thought of Hossa winning the Cup and rubbing it in to Pens fans. On the other hand, you all want to claim Pens fans have no right to gripe about Hossa in the first place. Well how can that be? By acknowledging Pens fans would be ticked off, you admit there was something there to make them ticked off in the first place. See what I mean?

It's like it's not enough that your guys win, they also have to be the "good guys," the angels who never do any wrong.

Pardon me while I sit back and chuckle at that thought.

Kind of like saying there really IS a tooth fairy, and Franzen never dives. I mean, c'mon...

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Pens fans are just mad that they got Hoss in a trade for a guy who turned out to be great when he was with another team, and then Hossa left them with nothing to show for their trade. Sucks for them but those are the kind of risks you take when trading players halfway through the season.

Another rationalizer who knows more about Pens fans than Pens fans themselves. Glad to have you aboard!

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Translation: he plays for my team now, he can do no wrong.

Wow just wow. If Hossa were to enter tomorrow nights game and through a cheep shot on any Pens players (causing an injury) then I would most certainly hate the guy. I would be the first to sign a petition to send to Babcock to not play him in game 7 and send him away from the proud organization that is the Red Wings. He can do wrong, but he did not do wrong last year.

Not being concerned with logic makes accepting when you are wrong difficult. Ask any politician.

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Another rationalizer who knows more about Pens fans than Pens fans themselves. Glad to have you aboard!

He never said anything about the Pens organization.

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(By the way, I respect you for coming here and talking to us, and wish you the best of luck in good sportsmanship for the rest of this series and next year, but this topic does get me fired up)

There are many ways a forward can "show up" that don't appear on a scoresheet. This partially explains how Crosby and Malkin can score eleventy billion points during the Eastern Conference Finals, and then run into difficulties playing against Datsyuk and Zetterberg, who elite-level defensive players. Hossa has been a presence in this playoff both defensively and with his puck control while Datsyuk was out, even if his offensive numbers are lower than expected.

The salary cap is the same for every team. While you compare Hossa's $7.4 million contract to his meager goal production and conclude that it's a dissapointment for the Wings, I doubt they'll lose much sleep over that if his presence contributed to our overall depth and a 2nd consecutive Cup.

Interesting how you see Hossa's play.

I see a guy who's been fed like a Japanese cow the whole playoffs, and has almost nothing to show for it. The other night was a prime illustration -- do you ever get a sweeter pass than Hossa got while all alone in front of the other team's back-up goalie -- and still not score?

And check the "should we resign Hossa?" thread -- only about a dozen Wings fans screaming about what a waste he is after the loss in Game 4. Only the win in Game 5 took the heat off him.

I'd like to see more sportsmanship too this series, which I must admit was a bit lacking from my own team in Game 5.

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Again, and for the millionth time -- it's not about him leaving for another team. It's HOW he went about it that's stuck in some people's craws.

You guys are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand, so many fans here are delighting in the thought of Hossa winning the Cup and rubbing it in to Pens fans. On the other hand, you all want to claim Pens fans have no right to gripe about Hossa in the first place. Well how can that be? By acknowledging Pens fans would be ticked off, you admit there was something there to make them ticked off in the first place. See what I mean?

It's like it's not enough that your guys win, they also have to be the "good guys," the angels who never do any wrong.

Pardon me while I sit back and chuckle at that thought.

Kind of like saying there really IS a tooth fairy, and Franzen never dives. I mean, c'mon...

Franzen does take the odd dive. We know it, admit it and get very mad at him when he does it. We would prefer if he would stay out of the scrums because he may be big but he does not know how to fight.

No one wants to see Hossa "rubbing it in to Pens fans". We want our team to win just like you want for yours. If the Wings win I hope Hossa (and the rest) keep professional and do nothing stupid. I also hope the Pens fans do the same. Last years game 6 loss would be hard yet I saw many classy Pens fans clapping and cheering for the cup, the Pens, AND the Wings. Good on them.

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Nor did I, if you bother to actually read what I wrote.

I think you failed to read what you wrote. He did not make any assumptions about the Pens or knowing more then anyone else. He pointed out that the Pens lost several good prospects (and a couple good players) to get a guy for 4 months and that would be hard. There is no assumption there, yet you attack him for one. You may read but comprehension is a whole different world for you.

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Who really cares if the Pittsburgh fans are upset about Hossa leaving? Nobody other than Hossa, his agent, the Penguins organization and the Wings organization know what went down. Everything else is just speculation. If they want to hate on Hossa, let them. What does it honestly matter to us?

And really, Hossa departure from Pittsburgh is like a shadow of Fedorov's departure from Detroit. There's major controversy within the fan base over what actually went down and whether people should dislike him or not. Same situation with Hossa. Why does it matter?

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Franzen does take the odd dive. We know it, admit it and get very mad at him when he does it. We would prefer if he would stay out of the scrums because he may be big but he does not know how to fight.

No one wants to see Hossa "rubbing it in to Pens fans". We want our team to win just like you want for yours. If the Wings win I hope Hossa (and the rest) keep professional and do nothing stupid. I also hope the Pens fans do the same. Last years game 6 loss would be hard yet I saw many classy Pens fans clapping and cheering for the cup, the Pens, AND the Wings. Good on them.

"Franzen takes the odd dive?" That's like saying the President takes the odd trip to the Oval Office. Really, watching him act like he was shot in the face after Malkin hit him Saturday Night made me think he should work as an extra in war movies.

But I digress... and hey, thanks for pointing out there were some actual Pens fans who showed some sportsmanship during the Cup presentation ceremony. With all the "Pens fans have no class, they're the Devil on Earth!" posts that have been put up here, that's quite a refreshing change.

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Who really cares if the Pittsburgh fans are upset about Hossa leaving? Nobody other than Hossa, his agent, the Penguins organization and the Wings organization know what went down. Everything else is just speculation. If they want to hate on Hossa, let them. What does it honestly matter to us?

I don't know, I didn't post the thread... maybe you should ask the Wings fan who took the time to start it?

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I don't know, I didn't post the thread... maybe you should ask the Wings fan who took the time to start it?

I'm asking everybody who feels the need to continue this debate as if it's going to make a difference.

Penguins fans are upset at the way Hossa left. Wings fans don't think they should be. But it won't change anything. Penguins fans are still going to be upset. Wings fans are still going to think it's stupid. Butting heads for four pages just seems stupid.

Edited by Ms_Hockey

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I'm asking everybody who feels the need to continue this debate as if it's going to make a difference.

Penguins fans are upset at the way Hossa left. Wings fans don't think they should be. But it won't change anything. Penguins fans are still going to be upset. Wings fans are still going to think it's stupid. Butting heads for four pages just seems stupid.

... but thats why BTP is here, to stir it up.

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I'm asking everybody who feels the need to continue this debate as if it's going to make a difference.

Penguins fans are upset at the way Hossa left. Wings fans don't think they should be. But it won't change anything. Penguins fans are still going to be upset. Wings fans are still going to think it's stupid. Butting heads for four pages just seems stupid.

If I was a Penguins fan I would be pissed also. Just to get up and leave the team to a team that just won the cup. They have all reasons to be pissed off at Hossa.

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... but thats why BTP is here, to stir it up.

Yeah, that's why I started this whole thread in the first place... oh wait, I didn't.

But that won't stop all you from talking about how obsessed with the issue I am, I'm sure.

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There is so much fail here. I wish you would have read the entire thread.

I put up one quote before from Hossa talking about how swell he thought playing for the Pens was, and how he'd just be tickled if he could get re-signed.

Your quote said he would love to find a great team and stick with them. no where did he mention that great team was the Pens.

Why then would you assume Pens' management knew he was going to leave?

Hossa stated a week and a half before free agency that he was going to test free agency. Shero knew.

He changed his mind at the last second, leaving the team to scramble with its free-agent plans.

Hossa stated a week and a half before free agency that he was going to test free agency. Shero knew.

And as for your "he only was speaking about the Oilers" -- nice try. Did he or did he not ALSO have an offer from the Pens? C'mon man.

Shero said himself that the offer on the table to Hossa wasn't set in stone because it was going to change with the other re-signings of their current players. So basically there was no offer from the Pens. There was an offer from Edmonton and Detroit, and he chose Detroit because he felt we were the better team.

If you want to debate any of this then please use links and evidence, because all I did was state facts, I will not debate things that are not facts but meerly the opinions of a bitter Pens fan. Sorry.

All my links are on page 2, read those articles before you debate any of this.

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If I was a Penguins fan I would be pissed also. Just to get up and leave the team to a team that just won the cup. They have all reasons to be pissed off at Hossa.

Not really, Bertuzzi and Schnieder did the same thing to the Wings by signing with the Ducks in the offseason and I have no ill will towards them. With them gone it freed up space to sign better players and plan long term and I love when Schneider was here and I was a big fan of Big Bert as well. Next to Lidstrom, Schneider was the best PP D-Man we've had in quite some time. I was sad when he left but I didn't hold it against him that he signed with the team that eliminated us a month ago.

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