Babcock coaching philosophy?

[wheelchairwing 11]

I don't know if this has been discussed to the point of exhaustion, so if this is dealt with in another thread, please direct me to it. If there a consensus on Babcock's attitudes toward using veterans? I seem to remember (but I could be wrong) Babcock coming to Detroit with the idea that "if you don't play well, then you won't be playing" (paraphrasing). Now, I know that I may get yelled at for bringing this up but Maltby and Draper have been on the decline for a couple years now at least. I know that they are not star players and are expected to "grind" it out, but their effectiveness seems to have been wanning. I'm still at a loss for the reasons why Abdelkader (sp?) was not in the lineup last night. The energy that he could have provided might have been much more beneficial to the team. I know experience counts for something, loyalty counts for something, and that the concern of a lack of defensive skills counts for something, but I just wonder why Babcock stuck with the older veterans. I know that at least Draper will be back because we do not want tohave his money still count toward the cap if he retires. I guess I just thought that Babcock would've thought differently about using our youth. Didn't she say that he thought Ericsson should have been in our lineup last year? Who makes these decisions?

[Stiffy 0]

I think the answer is there is no consistency to this. Merit and performance do not seem to always work on this team, surely not like it did with Bowman. I personally think it is critical. We have these amazing kids who are HUNGRY. Bring them up more often in the regular season and put the old guys on notice, "Your job has to be earned because this kid wants it." I can think of a number of example, both ways, of how Babs dropped the ball on going with the guys who played well or did not.

Abdelkader scores in consecutive finals games and they sit him while Sammy, Hudler, Draper, Maltby, Homer... were doing... what?

What business did Homer have on any line except the fourth? I can't find it, but I remember reading a quite some time back where Babs said on another team Homer might not be playing at all.

Finally, though somewhat related. Does anyone remember a certain steady under pressure D named Kyle Quincy who was given away so we could keep.... CHELIOS!!! Not traded. just put on waivers. He may not have been a super star, but he was smart. I think we could have used a D man like that during these finals let alone all season. Gee, maybe even last night, perhaps, it would have paid to have had a smart D man not screwing up.

[RedWingsFan13 0]

Hmmmm who do i want in my line up for a GAME 7 in the SCF , a 20 something year old kid ( if abs is even that old idk ) or a experienced Vet who has won 4 stanly cups..

come on think about it. now what if Abs WAS in, dident score a goal and made a bad play that the pens scored on, you would be here saying. " Why didn't he play the vet "

you go with what won it last year, and guys you count on.

Abs IS NOT READY to come up yet, he is too immature, ( as a hockey player ) and needs a bare minimum of 1 more year in GR.

so the obvious choice is maltby and draps.

did it work... no, do i agree that some of our vets are getting to be a bit useless, yes.

do we need an influx of youth on our team, yes. how do we do it???

TRUST IN KENNY HOLLAND, he has only made 1 bad trade. and i am sure the kids are coming up, WHEN they are ready.

[Carman 387]

I can understand most of the decisions, but seeing Holmstrom out there the final couple minutes really confused me. But I'm not going to question Babcock he is obviously one of the top coaches in the league and I'm sure it's me missing something rather then him

[Seraph 240]

Abs is sick right now.

[2dogger 0]

The Wings philosophy has been to respect and keep the older guys. Chelios and McCarty were absolute wastes of roster space (and yes, we lost Quincy because of it). Helm, Aberkader, and Leino should have got more ice time this season. In games 1 & 2, these guys added the spark we needed. Their energy was so apparent when they were on the ice. After our super flat game 6, the fact the Babs did not go to our youth was a huge mistake. Holmer, Drapes, and Malts: I love you guys for what you have done in the past; but the past is the past - they were all absolutely terrible in game 7.

This is the Wings demise. Stop cuddling the older guys: when they are no longer effective, they must be gone. Trade, release, or otherwise; the Wings have to get the stones to make these tough decisions. There is no way this team as is, one year older, will get to the finals next year.

[Stiffy 0]

Hmmmm who do i want in my line up for a GAME 7 in the SCF , a 20 something year old kid ( if abs is even that old idk ) or a experienced Vet who has won 4 stanly cups..

come on think about it. now what if Abs WAS in, dident score a goal and made a bad play that the pens scored on, you would be here saying. " Why didn't he play the vet "

you go with what won it last year, and guys you count on.

Abs IS NOT READY to come up yet, he is too immature, ( as a hockey player ) and needs a bare minimum of 1 more year in GR.

This makes no sense. If he was "immature" what the hell did he do with it other than score more SCF goals than Marian Hossa or Sidney Crosby? I'd love to have you as my boss. I could get into the job a bit then coast the rest of my life. Sorry, but this is poorly thought out parroted bull s***.

[mru22 1]

Normally i think its easy to get rid of the "Older guys" when they don't produce. However most of the guys on this team have a decent amount of cup wins so there is the loyalty factor to people who have produced in the past.

I agree if a guy is no longer producing you have to let him go.

At the end of his coaching Career Tom Landry was famous for keeping guys around well past their prime. I hope thats not the case with the wings but i understand it will be tough management decisions for some of these guys down the road.

[Guest Shoreline]

Normally i think its easy to get rid of the "Older guys" when they don't produce. However most of the guys on this team have a decent amount of cup wins so there is the loyalty factor to people who have produced in the past.

I agree if a guy is no longer producing you have to let him go.

At the end of his coaching Career Tom Landry was famous for keeping guys around well past their prime. I hope thats not the case with the wings but i understand it will be tough management decisions for some of these guys down the road.

The Wings were accused back in 2002 of being too old, as Bowman liked to hang onto some of those vets. I don't think there's much sensibility in criticizing age unless age has caught up to a person's ability to be competitive with the rest, a la Cheli.

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

All I know is that Babcock believes in Poise. Every time they show him on camera during the games he's always screaming that. I don't like that fact that he thinks the veteran experience will bail the Wings out every time and simply say "We don't panic".

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Well one of those waste of roster space vets scored our only goal in game 6. Yes Draper and Malts are getting up there - they have one more year left on their contracts, then they're done. They are 4th line guys - it's not like they get Hossa's spot (maybe they should have ). Nobody was complaining when we won game 5. Actually if you ask me, Maltby and Draper were two of our better players in Games 6&7. Just didn't work out, had nothing to do with either of them...

[IceMunkee 15]

Now this is going to far! Babcock is the best coach in the NHL!!! Maybe I am the differant one, maybe I am a loyalist or maybe even a Homer but this is just unacceptable in my book.

[CenterIce 83]

Bring them up more often in the regular season and put the old guys on notice, "Your job has to be earned because this kid wants it."

I would agree with you here, but when you are close to the cap, the only time you can bring some one up is when some one else goes on long-term IR.

[55fan 5,133]

Abs is sick right now.

Could you translate this for an old lady? Do you mean that he is ill at the moment? Or do you mean that he is far out and groovy and should have been playing rather than being forced to wait?

I think Babs balances the young ones (GR boys, Lebda, Huds), the middlers (Z, Kronner, Mule), and the experienced ones (Drapes, Malts, Lids) quite well. Each bring something to the table. The kids bring the exuberance, the older ones bring the poise and experience, and the middlers bring both.

I must say, though, that it always strikes me as funny when a bladder control product is yelled at an aging group. But that's just me, not normal people.

I'm not sure what happened to Homer this year, but the other veterans who played are ones who are either good during the regular season, or are ones who kick it up a notch for the playoffs.

[Stiffy 0]

There is another aspect to coaching and that is motivation. It can be achieved by praise, trust or fear and intimidation. I think you need a bit of all and that and Babs is sometimes too nice or trusting. Sometimes players need a kick in the ass. Bowman, I think, was a master at this and screwed with player's heads all the time. I recall some story about when he was in Montreal or Pittsburgh he made a comment about a player being a little soft just prior to the game. The guy was pissed off beyond belief at Bowman and went out and hit everyone like mad all game long. Imagine saying something like that to Hossa about his scoring or Stuart and Kronvall about dumb ass penalties. I honestly think it has a chance of really firing a guy up and changing his game.

Seeing that our D has really dropped all year, McLellan's coaching was probably a big factor. I mean, it is the same bunch of guys. What the heck changed all season long? Whatever he did, we need something like that back.

[tdinc 45]

Abdelkader scores in consecutive finals games and they sit him while Sammy, Hudler, Draper, Maltby, Homer... were doing... what?

This is the Biggest question that has haunted me. Why pull a player who was scoring goals and skating hard. Bonehead move for sure.

[MotownMadman 0]

Short time reader, first time poster.

I don't know if this has been discussed to the point of exhaustion, so if this is dealt with in another thread, please direct me to it. If there a consensus on Babcock's attitudes toward using veterans? I seem to remember (but I could be wrong) Babcock coming to Detroit with the idea that "if you don't play well, then you won't be playing" (paraphrasing). Now, I know that I may get yelled at for bringing this up but Maltby and Draper have been on the decline for a couple years now at least. I know that they are not star players and are expected to "grind" it out, but their effectiveness seems to have been wanning. I'm still at a loss for the reasons why Abdelkader (sp?) was not in the lineup last night. The energy that he could have provided might have been much more beneficial to the team. I know experience counts for something, loyalty counts for something, and that the concern of a lack of defensive skills counts for something, but I just wonder why Babcock stuck with the older veterans. I know that at least Draper will be back because we do not want tohave his money still count toward the cap if he retires. I guess I just thought that Babcock would've thought differently about using our youth. Didn't she say that he thought Ericsson should have been in our lineup last year? Who makes these decisions?

Thanks for posting this wheelchair. I've been thinking that Bylsma outcoached Babs in the SCF Final and that's one of the reasons the Wings lost. The Pens maintained their energy and physical game even after getting shutout 5-0 and the Wings failed to show up in game 6 when the Cup was within their grasp. Part of that is coaching.

I think the answer is there is no consistency to this. Merit and performance do not seem to always work on this team, surely not like it did with Bowman. I personally think it is critical. We have these amazing kids who are HUNGRY. Bring them up more often in the regular season and put the old guys on notice, "Your job has to be earned because this kid wants it." I can think of a number of example, both ways, of how Babs dropped the ball on going with the guys who played well or did not.

Abdelkader scores in consecutive finals games and they sit him while Sammy, Hudler, Draper, Maltby, Homer... were doing... what?

Great post. Bowman held all players accountable, even benching Shanny at times. People have brought up Drapes and Malts, but what about Sammy skating by while Kennedy nets the eventual game winner in game 6? "Yeah, of course you're still in the line-up. It's all good." is not an effective response.

And like others mentioned. You get a goal in each of the first two games of the series (one of which was very close), it's inconceivable that you're taken out of the line-up unless you make the mother of all screw ups (Brad Stuart's numerous giveaways would be good examples here).