Are Power Forwards a dying breed?

[Heaton 1]

I think Nash is a PF. He's got everything, the skill, the points, the size, the attitude, the willingness and ability to fight when it's the right thing to do.

Cue up the vid of Rick Nash engaging Jim Vensermeer, and then Johan Franzen and Jim Vandermeer. The difference in the player's attitudes should be clear.

"I LOL'd"

So did I.

If Rick Nash is a powerforward, Dan Cleary and Johan Franzen are.

In reality the players who are and should be considered powerforwards today don't really fight that much mainly because they're not as valuable being in the box for 5 or more minutes a night.

Rick Nash has had 3 NHL fights in his career and was outhit by Franzen and Cleary by 20 and 30+ hits each respectfully (the NHL hit stat is subjective but it gives an indication)

To me, a powerforward today is the type of player who can score goals, take hits, give hits and keep going while chargning the net and using their body to protect the puck. It's a lot broader than the days of Shanahan but definitions change through the years.

The oldschool powerforwards meaning elite talent coupled with physical play and fights are reserved to few mainly Morrow and Iginla.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Brendan Morrow fits the mold, IMO.

Considering his injury, I think we all seriously forgot about him... I know I did. Yes, Morrow is awesome.

[Guest micah]

Brendan Morrow fits the mold, IMO.

Certainly. Remember when introduced Sammy to classic NHL justice? Just because the refs didn't see the high stick doesn't mean you get away with it. If you're not tough, you better play clean. That was refreshing to see, and it's what the league needs more of. Not senseless, unprovoked brawls, but men standing up to eachother when they've been wronged - asking no quarter and giving none.

I was happy to see the refs play it cool on that one. They could have given Morrow the instigator package, but elected instead to not even call it a fight, even though it clearly was. Had they called it a fight, Morrow would have got the 2, 5, and 10. Being that Sammy clearly had it coming, the let Morrow deliver the beating he deserved.

Sammy seemed to be a bit more careful after that.

[zata20 4]

To me, a powerforward today is the type of player who can score goals, take hits, give hits and keep going while chargning the net and using their body to protect the puck.

Rick Nash doesn't fit that description? I think he does.

[Heaton 1]

Rick Nash doesn't fit that description? I think he does.

I never said he didn't.

[Guest micah]

If Rick Nash is a powerforward, Dan Cleary and Johan Franzen are.

In reality the players who are and should be considered powerforwards today don't really fight that much mainly because they're not as valuable being in the box for 5 or more minutes a night.

Rick Nash has had 3 NHL fights in his career and was outhit by Franzen and Cleary by 20 and 30+ hits each respectfully (the NHL hit stat is subjective but it gives an indication)

To me, a powerforward today is the type of player who can score goals, take hits, give hits and keep going while chargning the net and using their body to protect the puck. It's a lot broader than the days of Shanahan but definitions change through the years.

The oldschool powerforwards meaning elite talent coupled with physical play and fights are reserved to few mainly Morrow and Iginla.

I disagree. To be considered a Power forward, you must either fight occasionally (on purpose) or at least be able to handle yourself. cleary, maybe. Franzen? Hell no. Nash and Cleary don't seek out rough stuff, but they doesn't cower away like a child either.

[Heaton 1]

I disagree. To be considered a Power forward, you must either fight occasionally (on purpose) or at least be able to handle yourself. cleary, maybe. Franzen? Hell no. Nash and Cleary don't seek out rough stuff, but they doesn't cower away like a child either.

Neither does Franzen as much as you want to believe otherwise. Franzen is always in the middle of it around the net, just because he doesn't get 5 minute majors once every few years like Nash doesn't mean he's 'cowering away like a child'.

[zata20 4]

I never said he didn't.

I wasn't sure if you thought he was or not when you said that if Nash is Cleary and Franzen are as well. So you think they all are?

[Heaton 1]

I wasn't sure if you thought he was or not when you said that if Nash is Cleary and Franzen are as well. So you think they all are?

I think if we're using Nash as a description for todays powerforwards there's a lot of players who fit that mold.

[zata20 4]

I disagree. To be considered a Power forward, you must either fight occasionally (on purpose) or at least be able to handle yourself. cleary, maybe. Franzen? Hell no. Nash and Cleary don't seek out rough stuff, but they doesn't cower away like a child either.

I assume you don't like Franzen considering you're doing a good job of bashing him.

[zata20 4]

Here is a description of a power forward from wikipedia (I realize it is wikipedia, but it seems like a good description). It list players who are PF's as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_forward_(ice_hockey)

In ice hockey, a power forward is a forward who possesses above average offensive skills and plays a tough, physical game. Most of the time, power forwards are physically large, but some players are referred to as power forwards despite being no more than six feet (183 cm) tall. Power forwards tend to be proficient stickhandlers and skaters who shoot the puck well and, at the same time, are capable of delivering crushing body checks and may also fight occasionally. Many power forwards plant their bodies in front of the opposing team's net and use their large frames to screen the goaltender. Power forwards also tend to be very difficult to knock off possession of the puck, hence their ability to "power through" opposing defenders.

Power forwards are desirable because of their well-rounded skill set and physical play. Smaller skilled forwards, who are talented offensively but lack the strength of power forwards, are defended against differently because they can be pushed around, knocked off the puck, or are more susceptible to intimidation. Power forwards do not tend to have any of those liabilities. However, small forwards are typically faster and more agile than the big power forwards.

Edited June 29, 2009 by zata20

[Guest micah]

Neither does Franzen as much as you want to believe otherwise. Franzen is always in the middle of it around the net, just because he doesn't get 5 minute majors once every few years like Nash doesn't mean he's 'cowering away like a child'.

Reflect on their careers thus far.

Nash and Cleary have displayed willingness and ability to scrap when the time comes. Franzen has not. Do you disagree? Shall we review some footage?

ETA: What is Franzen doing in my avatar? I've watched the tape a dozen or so times, but I can never decide for certain if he was diving or if he was KO'd or if he was so scared of the smaller Jim Vandermeer that all he could do was flop to the ice and cover his head in hopes that the big meanie would have pity on him.

ETA again: Clearyis not a greater fighter, but he isn't apparently scared of the rough stuff. His inviting Pronger to a fight shows me what kind of player he is. He had to know Pronger was gonna kill him, but he picked that fight anyway - because Pronger had a history of roughing up our guys, and because Pronger was such an effective player (and a high minute player to boot) that taking him off the ice for 5 minutes is worth a black eye. cleary had the sack to do it, I was then and am still proud of him.

Edited June 29, 2009 by micah

[Guest micah]

I assume you don't like Franzen considering you're doing a good job of bashing him.

You are very astute. I loathe the coward:) He's perhaps my least favorite current player.

6'3. 220lbs. Heh.

[BlakKy 58]

Reflect on their careers thus far.

Nash and Cleary have displayed willingness and ability to scrap when the time comes. Franzen has not. Do you disagree? Shall we review some footage?

ETA: What is Franzen doing in my avatar? I've watched the tape a dozen or so times, but I can never decide for certain if he was diving or if he was KO'd or if he was so scared of the smaller Jim Vandermeer that all he could do was flop to the ice and cover his head in hopes that the big meanie would have pity on him.

Not defending him but when he fell to the ice hard without his helmet I think he was afraid of either being stepped on, or being beaten to a pulp in a compromising position.

Any time I fell to the ice without a helmet I covered my ears cause I was afraid of being stepped on. I don't know why it doesn't happen more but anyone who has played knows that being stepped on is ******* scary.

[egroen 384]

You are very astute. I loathe the coward:) He's perhaps my least favorite current player.

6'3. 220lbs. Heh.

Yeah, I can't stand guys who come out of nowhere and break playoff goal-scoring and game-winning goal records -- 25 goals in 39 playoff games the past two years (#1 in the NHL by far). I don't care if he scores 70 goals next season and is a Selke finalist -- if he backs down from a fight he's nothing but a *****! I hope we lose him to waivers next year.

Edited June 29, 2009 by egroen

[zata20 4]

Yeah, I can't stand guys who come out of nowhere and break playoff goal-scoring and game-winning goal records -- 25 goals in 39 playoff games the past two years (#1 in the NHL by far). I don't care if he scores 70 goals next season and is a Selke finalist -- if he backs down from a fight he's nothing but a *****! I hope we lose him to waivers next year.

I'm pick up your sarcasm.

[titanium2 867]

It is very, very difficult to call Franzen a power forward when, wait, how old is Getzlaf, 23? And how old is Franzen? 30? Yeah, when a ******* 23 year old screams at a 30 year old to get his ass up off the ice and stop diving. My God that was embarrassing.

Also, when the ref calls him on his diving but takes pity and doesn't call an unsportsmanlike.

If you're going to associate the word power with a player, it better not be Franzen.

[Guest micah]

Yeah, I can't stand guys who come out of nowhere and break playoff goal-scoring and game-winning goal records -- 25 goals in 39 playoff games the past two years (#1 in the NHL by far). I don't care if he scores 70 goals next season and is a Selke finalist -- if he backs down from a fight he's nothing but a *****! I hope we lose him to waivers next year.

If all that matters to you is scoring, good for you. I'm happy for you if you enjoy players like Franzen. My list of favorite players is not ranked by points per year though, sorry. Toe mae toe, toe mah toe.

I loathe Franzen not because he backed down from a fight once, but because he has shown a consistant pattern of being unwilling and unable to stick up for himself or his teamates. Like I said, for me to like a player, they don't need 15 fights a year, they just need to be willing. Franzen isn't. I'm happy he's playing the best hockey of his young carreer. That doesn't mean I have to like him.

[zata20 4]

Wow! I can't believe all of the Franzen bashing on here. I hope you folks bashing him don't celebrate when he scores goals because that would just be hypocritical seeing that some of you hate him so much. (For the record I don't think he is a PF either, but he still is a great player even if he is a diver)

[Guest micah]

It is very, very difficult to call Franzen a power forward when, wait, how old is Getzlaf, 23? And how old is Franzen? 30? Yeah, when a ******* 23 year old screams at a 30 year old to get his ass up off the ice and stop diving. My God that was embarrassing.

Also, when the ref calls him on his diving but takes pity and doesn't call an unsportsmanlike.

If you're going to associate the word power with a player, it better not be Franzen.

This. Exactly this.

I would never call Franzen a crappy player because he isn't. But I would certainly never call him a power forward, nor does he strike me as the kind of guy who would sacrafice anything, including an orbital bone, for the good of the team. Cleary does. Franzen doesn't.

[Guest micah]

Wow! I can't believe all of the Franzen bashing on here. I hope you folks bashing him don't celebrate when he scores goals because that would just be hypocritical seeing that some of you hate him so much. (For the record I don't think he is a PF either, but he still is a great player even if he is a diver)

Who's bashing him? I just see honest assesments of the guy.

Great skills? Yes. Am I happy when he scores? Yes. Is he the sort of on-ice presence that a guy his size should be? No. Does he strike me as being a guy with a ton of heart? No. Is he a diver? Yes. Is it embarassing? Yes. Can he handle himself in a fight? No.

Nobody here has said he isn't a great player.

[BlakKy 58]

It is very, very difficult to call Franzen a power forward when, wait, how old is Getzlaf, 23? And how old is Franzen? 30? Yeah, when a ******* 23 year old screams at a 30 year old to get his ass up off the ice and stop diving. My God that was embarrassing.

Also, when the ref calls him on his diving but takes pity and doesn't call an unsportsmanlike.

If you're going to associate the word power with a player, it better not be Franzen.

I was embarrassed. I had friends over who are typically on the fence regarding the Wings and when that happened they laughed in my face. Franzen then went on to be awesome so I forgave him quickly.

[titanium2 867]

Wow! I can't believe all of the Franzen bashing on here. I hope you folks bashing him don't celebrate when he scores goals because that would just be hypocritical seeing that some of you hate him so much. (For the record I don't think he is a PF either, but he still is a great player even if he is a diver)

I don't mean to bash Franzen exactly, just those journalists and fans who call him a power forward.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Here is a description of a power forward from wikipedia (I realize it is wikipedia, but it seems like a good description). It list players who are PF's as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_forward_(ice_hockey)

Well Franzen is on that list. Maybe he isn't a PF in the true (old) sense of the title, but in the modern NHL he is.

[bonan78 1]

How about Alexander Semin?

Does this count?

Or maybe Burrows?

Great technique there.

I'd rather see someone skate away than embarras themselves like this.

Edited June 29, 2009 by bonan78